Salam brother,
1) I agree with you that our Prophet (pbuh+f) is the LAST PROPHET which means someone sent by Allah SWT with a BOOK and WISDOM as in 3:81: وَإِذْ أَخَذَ ٱللَّهُ مِيثَٰقَ ٱلنَّبِيِّـۧنَ لَمَآ ءَاتَيْتُكُم مِّن كِتَٰبٍۢ وَحِكْمَةٍۢ ثُمَّ جَآءَكُمْ رَسُولٌۭ مُّصَدِّقٌۭ لِّمَا مَعَكُمْ لَتُؤْمِنُنَّ بِهِۦ وَلَتَنصُرُنَّهُۥ ۚ قَالَ ءَأَقْرَرْتُمْ وَأَخَذْتُمْ عَلَىٰ ذَٰلِكُمْ إِصْرِى ۖ قَالُوٓا۟ أَقْرَرْنَا ۚ قَالَ فَٱشْهَدُوا۟ وَأَنَا۠ مَعَكُم مِّنَ ٱلشَّٰهِدِينَ 3:81 When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there will come unto you a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall help him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you) in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you. However, he (pbuh+f)is not the last Messenger which is the generic term for someone sent by Allah SWT with or without book and/or wisdom. A Prophet is a Messenger with Book and Wisdom. See how Allah SWT says He is taking a covenant from Our Prophet too: وَإِذْ أَخَذْنَا مِنَ ٱلنَّبِيِّـۧنَ مِيثَٰقَهُمْ وَمِنكَ وَمِن نُّوحٍۢ وَإِبْرَٰهِيمَ وَمُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَى ٱبْنِ مَرْيَمَ ۖ وَأَخَذْنَا مِنْهُم مِّيثَٰقًا غَلِيظًۭا 33:7 And when We exacted a covenant from the prophets, and from thee (O Muhammad) and from Noah and Abraham and Moses and Jesus son of Mary. We took from them a solemn covenant; So when Imam Al-Medhi (as) comes, he will be sent by Allah SWT to establish peace and justice on Earth in sha Allah sooner than the blink of an eye Ya Rabb (16:77). 2) There is no number 2. 3) Please refer to Soul and Spirit at www.heliwave.com for detailed explanation from the Quran about the Unseen (from Jinn domain to Allah's domain [3alem al-ghayib wel-shahaada]. Shaheeds are alive and witnessing us now. Our Prophet (pbuh+f) is witness upon all witnesses now not only on judgment day, or he will be "shadih ma shafshi haga" == "witness without seeing". فَكَيْفَ إِذَا جِئْنَا مِن كُلِّ أُمَّةٍۭ بِشَهِيدٍۢ وَجِئْنَا بِكَ عَلَىٰ هَٰٓؤُلَآءِ شَهِيدًۭا 4:41 But how (will it be with them) when We bring of every people a witness, and We bring thee (O Muhammad) a witness against these? Soul and Spirit will also explain the difference between the two from the Quran too but Allah is the Ultimate Knower. 4) The Prophet (pbuh+f) body is from earthly mother and father but his soul is not. Please lookup the word "Haaulaa'" in 2:31 وَعَلَّمَ ءَادَمَ ٱلْأَسْمَآءَ كُلَّهَا ثُمَّ عَرَضَهُمْ عَلَى ٱلْمَلَٰٓئِكَةِ فَقَالَ أَنۢبِـُٔونِى بِأَسْمَآءِ هَٰٓؤُلَآءِ إِن كُنتُمْ صَٰدِقِينَ 2:31 And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying: Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful. *** These here is Haaulaa' which is for plural, present and at least one animate (Aaqil). and see 2:30 for the previous beings before our generation that are neither angles nor jinn, nor animal but previous Adams too. وَإِذْ قَالَ رَبُّكَ لِلْمَلَٰٓئِكَةِ إِنِّى جَاعِلٌۭ فِى ٱلْأَرْضِ خَلِيفَةًۭ ۖ قَالُوٓا۟ أَتَجْعَلُ فِيهَا مَن يُفْسِدُ فِيهَا وَيَسْفِكُ ٱلدِّمَآءَ وَنَحْنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمْدِكَ وَنُقَدِّسُ لَكَ ۖ قَالَ إِنِّىٓ أَعْلَمُ مَا لَا تَعْلَمُونَ 2:30 And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not. *** (No Angel or Jinn has blood and no animal spread corruption). 5) The catch is the word "Wahum Raki3oon" == WHILE they are bowing (give zakat). Please refer to the revelation reason for this verse and see who was it meant by (those belivers who give zakat WHILE bowing down in prayer)? WaHum Raki3oon not WaHum Yarka3oon You say you know Arabic, then explain how the interpreters changed the word WHILE to AND ??? Give example in Arabic where WaHum Fa3iloon means WaHum Yaf3aloon !!! By the way, the Quran is independent of the old Arabic or old people. It is for all times and so the meaning of every word should be found within the Quran even ALM (Please see why the Quran called Al-Quran and why Al-Fatiha called Al-Fatiha at www.heliwave.com) 6) This is just a continuation of 5) 7) Indeed you would be liar but you still haven't died yet so you still have time to find out what is Allah's Recipe for SUCCESS in 5:56 AND FOLLOW IT, or you will be from Al-Dhaaleen or worst if you know it and ignore it from the Party of satan (a3oothoo biAllah) and you are not in sha Allah. I am sorry for using this forum for such discussion but in sha Allah useful for all readers as we are all here becuase we love the Quran, The Readable Book despite being encrypted with its Fatiha is its Opener in sha Allah. As the brother before me said, whoever dies not knowing his Imam dies an ignorant death. May Allah bring forward the rise of Imam Al-Mehdi (as) sooner than the blink of an eye in sha Allah. Salam Ali Adams God > infinity ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ramaddan" <2ama...@gmail.com> To: zekr@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 3:30:29 AM Subject: [zekr] Re: The Holder of Quran and Traveller of Heavens As Salemu Aleikum I don't think this is a forum for debates, but just wanted to clarify something. >> Your reasoning that he is the best worshiper because he is the last is >> invalid too. I didn't even know what prompted your email, but then after some thought, I realized the issue. If I strung a note that bothered some people, I did not intend to do so, nor did I notice the issue was related to that. I was just stating what is clear to me from Islam, and did not take into account that this could be related to something else. 1) I will try to bridge a gap and explain something, or at least why I said the above. The Prophet (SLAWS) was sent as the last Prophet to mankind, and there will be no more prophets after him, in other words, no more revelation after him. What is a Prophet? The one who carries the revelation from Allah (SWT). So if anyone comes after the Prophet, and claims that he has something from Allah (SWT), then it means he is claiming to have revelation, and thus Prophet-hood. Allah (SWT) says: الْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِي وَرَضِيتُ لَكُمُ الْإِسْلَامَ دِينًا This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion [5:3] In other words, the deen was completed with the Prophet, and there is nothing after him in terms of revelation, or else it would not be complete. And he came to perfect and complete the way we worship Allah (SWT), as this is the way Allah wants us to worship him. I thought it was a straightforward obvious issue, and I did not think it would be taking offensively or something by some. Is anyone better than the Prophet in example and better than the Prophet in the knowledge of Islam, and this revelation? 3) Quran 2:154 "Never say about those killed in the way of Allah "dead"; nay! They are alive but you cannot feel it" That is for all the martyrs, whether Prophets or others, but something very important to also keep in mind, this is part of the knowledge of the unseen. In other words, we don't and cannot fully grasp what it means exactly, or else it would not be unseen. Obviously, the martyrs are buried, and so was the Prophet (SLAWS), and they do not live or walk among us in the same sense of "alive" as us. That is all we know about it, and we cannot make any more judgement about it. Man can only make a judgement on what he can perceive or is told, and nothing else. For example, if I were to ask a person about my car, and how nice it is, or fast it is without any extra information, and without the person seeing it, the person would be unable to make a judgement and would be unable to give me an answer. If the person were to give me some answer, then it would be complete guesswork on the person's behalf. So we cannot build our beliefs based on guesswork. As Allah (SWT) says: وَمَا يَتَّبِعُ أَكْثَرُهُمْ إِلَّا ظَنًّا ۚ إِنَّ الظَّنَّ لَا يُغْنِي مِنَ الْحَقِّ شَيْئًا ۚ إِنَّ اللَّـهَ عَلِيمٌ بِمَا يَفْعَلُونَ And most of them follow not except assumption. Indeed, assumption avails not against the truth at all. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of what they do. [10:36] We need concrete information to make concrete statements and build a concrete belief in any matter. So we know the Martyrs are "alive", since we are told that, but we do not have any other information in terms of the reality, shape, or form of this "alive", so we stop here, and don't go building further stuff on something that is part of the "unseen". 4) >> There is no where in the Quran where Allah swt says about our Prophet(pbuh+f) is from beni Adam. I'm sorry, but this one really perplexed me. We have Angels, Djin, humans, and ?? The Prophet (SLAWS) was from Ibraheem (AS) and Isma'eel (AS), wasn't he? Wasn't Adam (AS) a Prophet also? So was Prophet Muhammad (SLAWS) also created without a father and mother? يَا بَنِي آدَمَ إِمَّا يَأْتِيَنَّكُمْ رُسُلٌ مِّنكُمْ يَقُصُّونَ عَلَيْكُمْ آيَاتِي ۙ فَمَنِ اتَّقَىٰ وَأَصْلَحَ فَلَا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلَا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ O children of Adam, if there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. (7:35) 5) You pointed out this issue about Mawlaah, which I was trying to get, and you pointed out the tafsir of al jalaalayn where he says: «على مولاه» وليّ أمره First, there are much better tafsirs than jalalayn in terms of the Arabic language, such as Qurtubi or Ar-Razi, or Shawkaani, etc Second, I speak and read Arabic, so I was trying to see the problem with the word, and what brought up the word even, as I did not see the relevance of it to my first email, as I did not mention anything related to it. Third, I still don't get it. Mawlaah is just a person in charge of you, and can be used in many different contexts based on how you use it. So the tafsir you gave said: «على مولاه» وليّ أمره Which is correct, no problem, where is the problem? He is saying, "'upon his mawlaah', viceroy of his affairs" The same way me and other Arabs understand it, which is someone in charge of your affairs. What's the catch? You mentioned: "Whoever I was mawlaah, this is Ali as mawlaah from now on. ..." No problem, Ali (may Allah bless him and be pleased with him) was placed in charge of the Muslim affairs, as was placed others as well, what's the issue? Also, I am not getting this Masters part, because mawlah does not mean "master" specifically, but someone very close to you, have a say over you, or in charge of your affairs, and can be used in many different contexts. You have wali, waali, and mawlaah, and they all come from the same root in Arabic, and have different ways of using them based on context. 6) The verses you mentioned are: إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّـهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَاةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ ﴿٥٥﴾ وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ اللَّـهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا فَإِنَّ حِزْبَ اللَّـهِ هُمُ الْغَالِبُونَ ﴿٥٦﴾ Your ally is none but Allah and [therefore] His Messenger and those who have believed - those who establish prayer and give zakah, and they bow [in worship]. (55) And whoever is an ally of Allah and His Messenger and those who have believed - indeed, the party of Allah - they will be the predominant. (56) Allah says "waliyukum" (your wali) in the first verse, and not "mawlaakum" (your mawlaah), and these have different meanings, even if we were to go by the meaning you gave. The second verse says "yatawalah" (takes as wali), and the only way it would mean what you said, if if you are saying that wali and mawlaah mean the same thing. They come from the same root, but different usage and different meaning. The above translation of "ally" is not bad in terms of what I understand from Arabic and all the old Arabic dictionaries, and what is spoken and written in all the old and new Arabic books used. This site is not bad to look into Arabic roots and their meanings from centuries old dictionaries: http://www.baheth.info Language is taken from the old Arabs, not the modern ones, as in those to whom the revelation was sent, as it was sent in their language, so we need to go back and see how they used it, and the nuances and expressions they used. Even if we were to say the word means "master" (which does not make sense in terms of the context of the verses), and then? What is looked for here? Those who pray and give zakah are our masters? And then what? Those who pray and give zakah are our allies? Those are the people I can count on and trust. 7) I am not forcing you to agree or believe the above, but I gave you how I always understood the subject. What you gave does not work linguistically, so there is no reason for me to think otherwise, as this is just what the Arabic says. Thus, I cannot agree with you, and if I say I did, I would be lying, and being a hypocrite. Would you want me to do that? Actually, I am more concerned about point 1) and 4), and I would rather continue any discussion in those. Wa Aleikum as Salam On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 12:57 AM, < zekr@googlegroups.com > wrote: The Holder of Quran and Traveller of Heavens [1 Update] The Holder of Quran and Traveller of Heavens Ali Adams < purepri...@yahoo.com > Sep 30 03:57PM -0700 What you failed to realize are two things: 1) The Prophet(pbuh+f) and his progeny are still alive but you cannot FEEL it Quran 2:154 "Never say about those killed in the way of Allah "dead"; nay! They are alive but you cannot feel it" 2) The Prophet(pbuh+f) is basher （made from clay) but not all basher come from Adam (as). There is no where in the Quran where Allah swt says about our Prophet(pbuh+f) is from beni Adam. On the contrary, Allah talks down Adam and Man in general (3ajoola, dhalooma, etc) whereas Allah swt says about our Prophet(pbuh+f) is MERCY to all the Universes. Your reasoning that he is the best worshiper because he is the last is invalid too. And the same goes to all 12 Imams from Ali to Mehdi as our wali (masters) as in 5:55, 5:56 and 16:76 16:76 And Allah coineth a similitude: Two men, one of them dumb, having control of nothing, and he is a burden on his owner; whithersoever he directeth him to go, he bringeth no good. Is he equal with one who enjoineth justice and followeth a straight path (of conduct)? 16:76 And Allah presents an example of two men, one of them dumb and unable to do a thing, while he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him, he brings no good. Is he equal to one who commands justice, while he is on a straight path? Here is Tafseer Al-Jalalain for you too: 16:76 «وضرب الله مثلاً» ويبدل منه «رجلين أحدهما أبكم» ولد أخرس «لا يقدر على شيء» لأنه لا يفهم ولا يُفهم «وهو كلّ» ثقيل «على مولاه» وليّ أمره «أينما يوجهه» يصرفه «لا يأت» منه «بخير» ينجح وهذا مثل الكافر «هل يستوي هو» أي الأبكم المذكور «ومن يأمر بالعدل» أي ومن هو ناطق نافع للناس حيث يأمر به ويحث عليه «وهو على صراط» طريق «مستقيم» وهو الثاني المؤمن؟ لا، وقيل هذا مثل الله، والأبكم للأصنام والذي قبله مثل الكافر والمؤمن. Allah SWT has used the word "mawlaah" in this verse and His Prophet (pbuh+f) used the same word when he raised Ali's hand and said: "Whoever I was mawlaah, this is Ali as mawlaah from now on. ..." 5:55 Your masters are 1) Allah, 2) His Prophet, and 3) those believers who establish prayer and pay zakat while bowing down in prayer. 5:56 Anyone takes Allah, His Prophet and those believers as their masters, know that the Party of Allah are triumphant. This is the recipe of Allah for success and 5:55 and 5:56 are not limited to Imam Ali (as) only because Allah swt used plural (والذين ءامنوا) deliberately which has 12 letters as a hint of their number. The 12 Imams peace be upon them all. Salawaaaaaaaaaaaaaat upon Muhammad his progeny. Ali Adams God > infinity www.heliwave.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ramaddan" < 2ama...@gmail.com > To: zekr@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2012 7:56:31 AM Subject: [zekr] Re: The Holder of Quran and Traveller of Heavens As Salemu Aleikum >> and The One for Whom the Entire Existence is made and On Whom He The Allah recites Darood I love the Prophet, like all Muslims, but the above statement is problematic. Allah (SWT) says: وَمَا خَلَقْتُ الْجِنَّ وَالْإِنسَ إِلَّا لِيَعْبُدُونِ And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me. (51:56) In other words, the entire existence was made to worship Allah (SWT), and it was not made for Muhammad (SLAWS). Our great Prophet Muhammad (SLAWS) himself was a great worshipper of Allah, and he is part of the creation that was created to worship Allah (SWT). Our Prophet (SLAWS) perfected this worship to Allah better than the rest of humanity, as he was the last Prophet to mankind. The world is still around after our beloved Prophet (SLAWS) left, and the world is still worshipping Allah (SWT), fulfilling the message and legacy he (SLAWS) came with. And Allah (SWT) says: لِلَّـهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَمَا فِيهِنَّ ۚ وَهُوَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is within them. And He is over all things competent. (5:120) I love Muhammad [SLAWS], and I love Allah (SWT) more, and this world was made to praise Him (SWT), Allah (the creator), and to frame it any other way is to not give Allah His due. فَسُبْحَانَ اللَّـهِ حِينَ تُمْسُونَ وَحِينَ تُصْبِحُونَ - وَلَهُ الْحَمْدُ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَعَشِيًّا وَحِينَ تُظْهِرُونَ So exalt Allah when you reach the evening and when you reach the morning. - And to Him is [due all] praise throughout the heavens and the earth. And at night and when you are at noon. [30:17-18] Wa Aleikum as Salam On Sun, Sep 30, 2012 at 12:48 AM, < zekr@googlegroups.com > wrote: The Holder of Quran and Traveller of Heavens [1 Update] The Holder of Quran and Traveller of Heavens Syed Muhammad Ayub Shah < agha_a...@yahoo.co.uk > Sep 29 06:12AM +0100 MOHAMMAD Assalam-o-Alaikum, wa-Rahmat-Ullah, wa-Assalat-U-wassalam-o-Ala-Rasool Allah, Please recite Darood on the Holiest and Superior of all the creations and Next in authority to the Most Beneficent and Mighty Creator Allah alone, The last of all the messengers, The last of all the Prophets, The Holder of All the Miracles, The cause of all the Creations, The Allah's Loved One, The 'MOHAMMAD' (Sallallah-o-Alaihe-Waalehi-Wasalam). No Defamation can be caused to the Ones Whom Allah Loves and The One for Whom the Entire Existence is made and On Whom He The Allah recites Darood. A file containing humble words in the Great Honor of The Traveler of Heavens, The Magnificent and Prestigious Self Hood and Great Prophet Hood The 'MOHAMMAD' Rasool Allah (Sallallah-o-Alaihe-Wa-Alehi-Wasalm), is uploaded for worthy reading, please. with Profoundest Regards, Agha Syed Muhammad Ayub Shah Bukhari Tel : (Cell) : +92 - 321 - 537 - 1193 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group zekr. You can post via email . To unsubscribe from this group, send an empty message. For more options, visit this group. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "zekr" group. To post to this group, send email to zekr@googlegroups.com . To unsubscribe from this group, send email to zekr+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "zekr" group. To post to this group, send email to zekr@googlegroups.com . 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