Re: [Zen] Re: Black Zen Masters?
Personally, I'd like to have seen Mr T become President instead of just being George Bush's poliical advisor and speech writer. Mike. - Original Message From: Jackson Masters [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 22 October, 2008 13:05:25 Subject: [Zen] Re: Black Zen Masters? cid830 Are you talking about his mother? Laugh now whitey, once Obama is elected President, the Black Man in America will walk and talk with authority, and the whitey will bend and kneel to the black man. We are the power now, man. We are the Black Power! Whitey will be second class this November!
[Zen] Recent Duplicate Postings
Sorry for the series of duplicate postings. It has something to do with my email server. I think it must have held my email postings to the Forum for an unusual amount of time before sending. My email postings usually get posted within minutes after I send them. I first thought my email posting had not gone through so I sent another. After the second one was not posted I went to the website and posted again. I even emailed Al asking if something had changed with the Forum processing. Anyway, mea culpa. It's not the first and I'm sure won't be the last. .Bill!
Re: [Zen] Obama, Farrkhan, Ali: Muslim Pals
Colin Powell is black?? - Original Message From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 22 October, 2008 19:53:22 Subject: Re: [Zen] Obama, Farrkhan, Ali: Muslim Pals Jackson, Thanks for the information. Even more reason to vote for him! Or do you really think he will replace the secret service with the Fruit of islam when (not if) he gets elected? Hey, I lived in some rough neighborhoods at some periods in my life too. One typically stays on friendly terms with potentially dangerous people, that doesn't mean he's going to appoint Farrakhan and Ayers to cabinet posts, more likely he'll appoint Colin Powell - or do you have problems with that darky too? Edgar On Oct 22, 2008, at 12:02 AM, Jackson Masters wrote: Below is the book William Ayers wrote A Kind and Just Parent: The Children of Juvenile Court By William Ayers Published by Beacon Press, 1998 Page 82 Our neighbors include Muhammad Ali, former mayor Eugene Sawyer, poets Gwendolyn Brooks and Elizabeth Alexander, and writer Barack Obama. Minister Louis Farrakhan lives a block from our home and adds, we think, a unique dimension to the idea of safe neighborhood watch; the Fruit of Islam, his security force, has an eye on things twenty-four- hours a day. I pass Farrakhan's mansion, offer a cheery wave to the Fruit, get a formal nod in response, and turn north two blocks across 47th Street, into the lap of urban blight. Comment Ayers had to know Obama at a very close level to mention him in his book along with Muhammad Ali and Louis Farrakhan. Obama lived in a Muslim neighborhood with two other famous black Muslims The book came out in 1998. It takes about 2-3 years to write and publish a book, so this friendship can be placed going back to at least 1995. The evidence comes straight from William Ayers.
[Zen] Re: Black Zen Masters?
I PITY THE FOOL! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Personally, I'd like to have seen Mr T become President instead of just being George Bush's poliical advisor and speech writer. Mike. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Black Zen Masters?
Hello Jackson, I am blind and I don't care what color people are. Now if people would not be prejudiced against ME for being blind, that would be great. JODY WE MUST BE THE CHANGE WE WISH TO SEE IN THE WORLD ~ Gandhi Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Correction
Chris; Thanks for The website you pasted. However, I haven't managed to open any of the pages except from front page of the link. Why you didn't go back to the temple of Thich Than Tu again?. What are you following now?. Do you have a Teacher, Sangha or just follow your own way?. Although, I've been attending a sangha for years. I'm a kind of casual practicioner. I lack of diligence, discipline...On the other hand, there are no monastics in most of TNH sanghas and because of that I eventually got a little bit fed up with them. TNH has turned out extremely popular in the whole world and his retreats are over crowded with lots of noise people. Not enough silence in them to concentrate as before. Thanks for writing Mayka --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, cid830 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mayka, It's actually in a neighboring city of Rendon, TX. The zen master is Thich Thanh Tu. I stopped visiting a few years ago because I was unhappy with alot of westerners who were trying to take over the dharma talks. The last time I checked the website it was all Vietnamese, but it looks like they have it in English now. It is http://www.thienvienquangchieu.org/english/ Later, Chris --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mayka flordeloto@ wrote: Chris; I'm sure you know this but just in case some of the readers don't: TNH stands for Thich Nhat Hanh. If you have the chance to ask the nuns, would you be so kind and write it down the correct name of the Teacher you mention?. If would be a different tradition I would love to know more about it. Please tell me everything you know. Do they have a website?. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Causality
Hi Edgar and All I've been reading your posts with much interest, (and am a newbie to the Zen thing). Edgar, in response to your post below, I wanted to ask what you believe the difference is between an automatic act coming 'directly from the Tao at the centre of ones nature' and a dysfunctional automatic act prompted by something like a phobia, or panic reaction. Both are non-conscious initially, so are they both coming from different non-conscious 'places'? (If you get what I mean..). Jo PS: I've enjoyed the causality discussion between yourself and Bill, and to some extent Anthony, btw --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 12:27 PM Mike, We don't. Even a zen master still places one foot in front of the other. He just realizes he's treading on nonexistence. Thus the energy rushes in through the soles of his feet. If I remember correctly you are the karate man. You certainly know well that one practices the (causal) rules of kata (forms) until they become part of one's inner nature. After that the strike happens before (without) thought. The rules have vanished and one acts directly from the Tao at the center of one's nature. Edgar On Oct 15, 2008, at 1:33 AM, mike brown wrote: Hi Edgar, Simple question: if there are rules - how do we go beyond them? Mike. - Original Message From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] net To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 8:03:44 Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality Bill, Maybe you say they are illusory, but you still follow and live according to the rules of causality 24/7 and have been all your life, except perhaps when sitting in zazen. Why is that if they aren't valid rules? You need to be careful in maintaining illusions aren't 'real'. Illusion is part and parcel of reality but should be recognized as illusion. Even when seen as illusion, it still doesn't disappear, only its seeming realness disappears. BTW, I'm a Goh player, not a chess man. Goh, to me, seems much more directly in tune with Tao, i.e., with the rules of fundamental causality. But I do have to ask you, if there is no causality how do you propose to checkmate my queen? Edgar But On Oct 14, 2008, at 5:15 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] org [EMAIL PROTECTED] org wrote: Edgar, You stated causality exists, and you confirmed that the relationship that causality defines is between events. This is a rational assertion. My questions were to show you that there is no rational defense of the concept of events, and in the absence of asynchronous events, and following your definition, there can be no causality. As far as I'm concerned this case is closed unless you can come up with a stronger rational definition of causality. You can of course, if you choose, quickly discard your lab coat of rationality and don your robes of zen. Presto change-o. An act of pure alchemy. That works. Or of course you can just opt out of the discussion. After all, who can compete with such powerful arguments as 'illusions aren't real but rules governing illusions (causality) are', or speculating that the other party is a 'successful businessman who has never been hit by a bus'. What more is there to say? For no reason...Bill! From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Owen Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:42 PM To:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com;SPACETIMEandCONSCIO [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality Hi Bill, Funny, I'm looking around me and don't seem to be snared in any illusory semantic traps. All there is is the morning light on the Autumn leaves! I think it's you who are snared in your own elaborate semantic net here but out of Bodhisattva compassion I'll descend reluctantly to the realm of illusion to help untangle you! :-) All the many questions you ask are answered simply by science and common sense which describe causality in the realm of material things, i.e. the rules that govern the manifestations of illusion. Who can say why they exist, all we know is that they do, and they govern the world of illusion. That just needs to be accepted. When we deal with that world we must follow its rules. Just because it is illusion doesn't mean it doesn't obey rules. As a successful businessman and a man who has gotten out of the way of oncoming buses for half a century, you have been living by those rules all your life and know them well. Impossible to deny them now. Zen accepts life in the realm of illusion. Though some minor illusions may vanish with enlightenment, the basic illusions of existence remain. The method of Zen in daily life is not to make all illusions vanish but to see and experience them as illusion and deal with them in accord with the causal rules which govern them but with the source of our action rooted
[Zen] Re: Black Zen Masters?
Blue, Thank you for posting. Your words reflect clearly the state of your being. You are obviously a serious practitioner. Not all of us here are, that is not a requirement. I agree, I am too-often prone to reply to idiocy, reflecting my own while doing so. But I sometimes just can't help myself, I (probably mistakenly) believe that somewhere in my retort, the offending idiot will see his or her own ignorance. I do think that your post below will work much better though. As much as I like rolling around in the mud, spouting my own stupidity. I do find the substantive postings much more enjoying. Thank You, Chris --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Daryl E Curry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A short time ago, the forum considered dropping members that did not post messages, thankfully that moment passed. Now, we have this entity that clearly is delusional and IT is allowed to drag the dialog into the abyss. Firstly, as a Black Buddhist, the idea that anyone of us would respond to this obviously ill person is a terrible reflection upon us, even me I suppose. Additionally, it is obvious that the poster is posing in every way imaginable., Race, Zen, Human, whatever is missing is clear with an open mind. I apologize for contributing to this dialog, but I wanted to insure that I did not get deleted from the Group, while this Dark One prospers in his delusion. Blue. E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10950e http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Black Zen Masters?
I have not been following this thread very closely. Did anyone post the list of black Zen Masters? Are there any Hispanic Zen Masters?? Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Correction
Mayka, I noticed that, too. It took them forever just to get the main page posted in English. I guess they just haven't built the subsequent pages yet. I started going to the temple soon after they opened it. It was just the nuns and about five westerners who would meet on Saturdays for a dharma talk and meditation session. I enjoyed it SO much! I looked forward to it every week (not a good Zen practice, anticipation). After almost a year of practice with them more and more westerners started coming and the dharma talks became more of people in the group explaining what their beliefs were instead of just listening to the nuns. The nuns, who spoke very little english, began to lose control of the classes. I have not been back for 3-4 years, but hope to go soon. I'm sure it is much better now. Since then I have completely lost my practice, and have lacked the discipline to regain it. Perhaps tomorrow. I did find it interesting that with all of their literature and knowledge in Vietnamese Zen, there was no mention of Thich Nhat Hanh. Do you think they are competing Zen Masters? Or just different disciplines? Later, Chris --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris; Thanks for The website you pasted. However, I haven't managed to open any of the pages except from front page of the link. Why you didn't go back to the temple of Thich Than Tu again?. What are you following now?. Do you have a Teacher, Sangha or just follow your own way?. Although, I've been attending a sangha for years. I'm a kind of casual practicioner. I lack of diligence, discipline...On the other hand, there are no monastics in most of TNH sanghas and because of that I eventually got a little bit fed up with them. TNH has turned out extremely popular in the whole world and his retreats are over crowded with lots of noise people. Not enough silence in them to concentrate as before. Thanks for writing Mayka Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Hello!
Jason, Welcome. You've come to the right place. We just had a thread recently where many described their satori experiences. Everyone has their own perspective. This group encompasses the spectrum. You'll see a few differing beliefs of what zen is to each of us. Some follow a zen buddhist tradition while others believe zen to stand alone. And still some could care less! Thank you for posting. Chris --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ejason85 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I am new to the group and wanted to introduce myself. my name is Jason and I am fairly new to zen. I joined to learn more about zen and buddhism, as I have a VERY basic understanding of both. I have been spiritual for many years and have meditated, although I wish to do it more regularly. I believe I have had a flash of ( and forgive me if this is the wrong term) satori I believe it's called, or a flash of enlightenment. it was the most amazing experience and truly indescribable. thanks for having me here and I look forward to learning more and talking with all of you. thanks! peace and love Jason Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] buddhism
Bob, The question you've asked touches a theme that surfaces from time to time on this forum. That is whether zen is a sub-set of Buddhism (as in Zen Buddhism), or whether zen is something that can be found outside of Buddhism as well. I believe the latter, but you must know that many on this forum reject that view. So...the answers to your questions will depend on whether you are talking about Zen Buddhism or just zen (lower case 'z' to differentiate it from Zen Buddhism). I'll try to do both by marking the answers as ZB for Zen Buddhism) and z for zen: Are there such things as monks and nuns of Zen? ZB: All Buddhism has various levels of clerical stati. In fact many Buddhist 'rules' are different for clergy and lay people. Zen Buddhism certainly has monks. Western versions also have female monks, and also have female Zen Masters. z: zen has no formal teaching, no holy books, no organization, no rituals, no ceremonies so has no clergy and does not make any differentiation between practitioners, or non-practitioners for that matter. I have always thought of Zen as very individualistic and idiosyncratic. Zen is life. Very simple. Are there big rituals and ceremonies in Zen? ZB: Zen Buddhism, for the most part, fully embraces Buddhist rituals, ceremonies, etc... It is a sub-set of Buddhism. z: I don't know that I'd call it individualistic. It is in the sense that you have to take complete responsibility for your own practice. No one can do it for you, or give you some kind of template on what you must do - although a teacher can help guide you. If by idiosyncratic you mean peculiar or eccentric, then I'd say no - zen is not peculiar at all. It's everyday life - eating when hungry, sleeping when tired. There is a popular misconception that zen is somehow eccentric and therefore 'hip'. It actually takes those things that many people would think as very boring and makes them 'holy' by enabling you to express your buddha nature through every one of these acts. zen does not have any rituals or specific ceremonies. Every act performed could be called a ceremony celebrating life and expressing buddha nature. I kind of doubt if the first Buddha had a zafu under the Bodhi tree and even if he sat in a lotus position. These are latter day rituals added on for organizational purposes. But is Zen supposed to be like this? ZB: I think Zen Buddhists believe Zen practice has to be like this, or is at least best if practiced like this. Z: No, zen does not have to be like this; although the practicing rituals and conducting ceremonies (whether they be Buddhist, Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, etc...) do not have to detract from zen practice, and in the beginning of your practice for some guidance or at any stage in your practice for community, they could actually be beneficial - but they are not essential. ...Bill! Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Hello!
Jason, Welcome to the Zen Forum! My suggestion to you is to learn to sit zen meditation (Japanese word = 'zazen'). If you can find a zen group near you with a legitimate teacher, that would be the best route. If not you can find out how to sit zazen from many sources. I've listed some on a previous post. Many people have had a spiritual experience that certainly could have been the same or similar to experiences prompted by practice of Buddhism and zen. 'Satori' is the Japanese term for a full enlightenment experience. 'Kensho' is the Japanese term for an initial breakthrough. So if you describe your experience as a 'flash' it would most likely be kensho as opposed to satori - if it was indeed either of these. Naming these experiences are not important. Establishing a good, consistent practice of zazen is, in my opinion, the most important thing. Again, Welcome! ...and good luck...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ejason85 Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 10:56 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] Hello! Hello, I am new to the group and wanted to introduce myself. my name is Jason and I am fairly new to zen. I joined to learn more about zen and buddhism, as I have a VERY basic understanding of both. I have been spiritual for many years and have meditated, although I wish to do it more regularly. I believe I have had a flash of ( and forgive me if this is the wrong term) satori I believe it's called, or a flash of enlightenment. it was the most amazing experience and truly indescribable. thanks for having me here and I look forward to learning more and talking with all of you. thanks! peace and love Jason Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] hi
Bob, Welcome to Zen Forum! Books about zen are not high on my list, although I have read a lot of them over the years. D.T. Suzuki presents a very scholarly view of Buddhism, not so much Zen Buddhism, but his books are considered classics in the field. I always recommend sitting with groups as opposed to sitting alone, especially in the beginning of your practice. Is the group you mentioned a zen group, or just a meditation group? There are lots of different types of meditation so don't just assume they are teaching and practicing zen meditation (Japanese word is 'zazen'). Zazen itself is very easy to learn. There's really not much to it. There are a lot of websites that give instructions and there have been postings on this forum that have detailed instructions. Bon Voyage! ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 2:27 AM To: zen_forum Subject: [Zen] hi Hi everyone My name is Bob Therriault and I am new to this group and Zen. I am also new to meditation. I am 62 and retired from the VA Hospital here in Albany, NY. There is no Zen Center here so I will be depending on this group to guide me in my practice. I have ordered books by D T Suzuki which I intend on reading. Do you suggest I practice meditation alone or with a group. There is a group with the UU church. Your Friendly Philosopher, Bob T Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
