Re: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God
Hris, I fully agree with you. I don't say those religions are 'bad', except for some advocating killing of innocent. But in regard to letting go of attachments, we have to go somewhere else. Anthony --- On Fri, 9/1/09, cid830 summitj...@att.net wrote: From: cid830 summitj...@att.net Subject: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 9 January, 2009, 1:31 AM What I believe is that we live in a dualistic world. Our minds attach to forms in a dualistic way. If you can break your attachment to this dualism and dissolve your Ego, you can get in touch with your True Self. I believe you can do this through daily meditation accompanied by a good belief system. Not just any belief system will get you there, but many will. These religions you have mentioned I think all teach attatchments of one sort or another. But many will teach you to let go of these attatchemnts. Please remember that I claim to be no expert in these matters. I only relate from my experience and my limited base of knowledge. What has worked for me may not be right for you. I hope you find YOUR way, Al. Sincerely, hris --- In zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com, fitness4u2163 fitness1963@ ... wrote: cid830I believe the answer is somewhere in the middle. In a non- dualistic existence that can only be experienced through strict adherence to a certain belief system along with deep meditation. What you believe is duality and your solution is Christianity or Judaism or some other strict belief system (Muslim?). You are like the square peg trying to get into the round hole. Start chatting with friends on the all-new Yahoo! Pingbox today! It's easy to create your personal chat space on your blogs. http://sg.messenger.yahoo.com/pingbox
RE: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God
Bill, Your statement is always great and sweet. It feels like a carrot. Al is carrying a stick. Are you two in the same performance in two different characters? Anthony --- On Fri, 9/1/09, billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 9 January, 2009, 8:09 AM Anthony, I'm not advocating you sit on a pillow forever. Formal sitting with a teacher is a good way to learn to do zazen, but like anything else after you've learned the basics you should extend the activity into your entire life. It's the same for zazen. Just drop the 'za' part (which means 'sit' in Japanese - I think) and what you have left is 'zen'. You can sit zen (zazen), you can walk zen, you can talk zen and you can change the oil in your car's engine zen. Or as you suggest you can constantly oscillate between suffering and fun. Bill! From: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 10:54 PM To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God Are you advocating that we should all just sit on a pillow until it stinks, and that is all? That is why I say no suffering, no fun. Anthony --- On Wed, 7/1/09, billsm...@hhs1963. org billsm...@hhs1963. org wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963. org billsm...@hhs1963. org Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com Date: Wednesday, 7 January, 2009, 3:53 PM Al is correct. Just THIS! Some of us think it's heaven and some of us think it's hell. Whatever we think of it, it's Just THIS! Bill! From: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com [mailto:Zen_ fo...@yahoogrou ps.com] On Behalf Of fitness4u2163 Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 11:13 AM To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com Subject: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God cid830 I don't have to rely on my faith to carry me into the promised land, after I die! The Kingdom of Heaven is among us! That is as much a fantasy as anything else. To some degree it is a lot worse and more pathetic to walk this earth thinking it is heaven. I certainly hope that this is not as good as it gets. Read the news and every day there is no end to the murders, rapes, killing of children, and numerous other incidents that are much more horrible than anything a normal person can imagine. By the way, in case you all haven't figured it out, satori is a pure fantasy and all those altered states that are written about are the purest form of bullshit ever created. When they say that there is no there, they aren't kidding. It is all here, and that is it. Nothing more. No nothing. You can sit your ass on a pillow for the rest of eternity, and the only thing that will happen is the pillow will stink. __ NOD32 3741 (20090105) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset. com _ _ _ _ Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail. .com. __ NOD32 3750 (20090108) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset. com Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/
[Zen] Re: The Reason For God
cid830 I know it may sound like I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but I know what I believe and I have found what I am looking for. Words that ring hollow. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: The Reason For God
Anthony Wu Your statement is always great and sweet. It feels like a carrot. Al is carrying a stick. Are you two in the same performance in two different characters? All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players; They have their exits and their entrances; And one man in his time plays many parts, Jaques (Act II, Scene VII, lines 139-142) As You Like It by Shakespeare Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God
Chris, You asked: Your statement is always great and sweet. It feels like a carrot. Al is carrying a stick. Are you two in the same performance in two different characters? My response is: yes - but isn't that true for all of us? If we all do indeed share the same Buddha Mind then aren't we all just different expressions of that same Buddha Mind, or Buddha Mind seen from different perspectives? ...Bill! Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God
Most words are hollow. --- On Sat, 10/1/09, fitness4u2163 fitness1...@yahoo.com wrote: From: fitness4u2163 fitness1...@yahoo.com Subject: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 10 January, 2009, 9:50 AM cid830 I know it may sound like I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but I know what I believe and I have found what I am looking for. Words that ring hollow. New Email names for you! Get the Email name you#39;ve always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/
RE: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God
Both yours and Al's answer are very acceptable. On the other hand, I have yet to prove the idea of 'Buddha mind' came from historical Buddha. It may have been later Mahayanist invention. The problem is that it tends to make things look easy. Since we all have the same Buddha mind, everything we do is justified. Anthony --- On Sat, 10/1/09, billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 10 January, 2009, 10:00 AM Chris, You asked: Your statement is always great and sweet. It feels like a carrot. Al is carrying a stick. Are you two in the same performance in two different characters? My response is: yes - but isn't that true for all of us? If we all do indeed share the same Buddha Mind then aren't we all just different expressions of that same Buddha Mind, or Buddha Mind seen from different perspectives? Bill! Get your preferred Email name! Now you can @ymail.com and @rocketmail.com http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/
[Zen] Re: The Reason For God
I'm sure many things ring hollow, when your empty inside. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, fitness4u2163 fitness1...@... wrote: cid830 I know it may sound like I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but I know what I believe and I have found what I am looking for. Words that ring hollow. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: The Reason For God
Bill, This was actually Anthony's statement. But I like the emphasis on perspective. Chris --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: Chris, You asked: Your statement is always great and sweet. It feels like a carrot. Al is carrying a stick. Are you two in the same performance in two different characters? My response is: yes - but isn't that true for all of us? If we all do indeed share the same Buddha Mind then aren't we all just different expressions of that same Buddha Mind, or Buddha Mind seen from different perspectives? ...Bill! Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: The Reason For God
So true, Anthony! Especially mine! Chris --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: Most words are hollow. --- On Sat, 10/1/09, fitness4u2163 fitness1...@... wrote: From: fitness4u2163 fitness1...@... Subject: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, 10 January, 2009, 9:50 AM cid830 I know it may sound like I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, but I know what I believe and I have found what I am looking for. Words that ring hollow. New Email names for you! Get the Email name you#39;ve always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God
Anthony, The word 'Buddha Mind' is used to communicate something - an experience. It is hollow if it is not successful in communicating. I started to write a more detailed response to your post, but remembered a good quote that I think makes the point pretty well: The original mind or true self of the human being is the proper ground of enlightenment. Original Mind is the intrinsic essence of mind, the true self. It is inherently pure and good, and in Christian terms it can be said to participate in the Kingdom of God. In Eastern traditions it is prior to thought, prior to desire, prior to any conceptualization at all. It is discovered by stripping away all sensation, desire, concepts, intellection, volition, and awareness of I. It partakes of the Oneness of all. Buddhism calls this mind the Buddha Nature, and much of Buddhist practice is aimed at its realization. They also call it no-mind because it is without any grasping at a (selfish) self. Taoists seek to strip away all intellection and formalism in order to arrive at the spontaneous activity of the natural man, who lives at one with the Tao of the universe. (Unfortunately I do not know the source of this quote, but it is self-explanatory and really does not need to be authenticated by knowing the name of its author) I often call this 'Just THIS!'. Original mind, Buddha Mind, no-mind, Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven proceeded Buddha, Buddhism, Zen Buddhism, Christianity and zen. All of these, except zen, are religions built up around someone's experience of Just THIS! and their subsequent attempts to share this experience with their followers. I exclude zen (as distinct to Zen Buddhism) because zen does not have all the trappings of a religion, but does share the attempt to share the experience with others - but I've gone into my views on all of that ad nauseum in many previous postings. To you last point in your posting: The problem is that it tends to make things look easy. Since we all have the same Buddha mind, everything we do is justified. If you operate from your Buddha Mind, everything is easy. No effort. No indecisions. No mind. Just THIS! Nothing is 'justified', nor needs to be justified. To whom would you justify it? What is 'justice'? All just is. Just THIS! Nothing more. ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:10 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God Both yours and Al's answer are very acceptable. On the other hand, I have yet to prove the idea of 'Buddha mind' came from historical Buddha. It may have been later Mahayanist invention. The problem is that it tends to make things look easy. Since we all have the same Buddha mind, everything we do is justified. Anthony Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Al's Salvation
Al, I am still fairly new to this group, compared to many others. I am always willing to post what I believe, and expose my ignorance, all for the sake of discussion. In all this time, I don't ever recall you stating your belief system. What spiritual belief system has brought you to this point? What do you follow now? Agnostic? Atheist? Christian? Muslim? I understand if you choose not to answer. You seem to never answer the very few substantive points I can manage to deliver. Only the parts that you think you can poke holes into. And that's the easy part! Later, Chris Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God
Zen practice enables emptiness. If truly empty there is no 'you'; and if there is no 'you' then there is room for everything. ..Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of cid830 Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2009 9:45 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] Re: The Reason For God I'm sure many things ring hollow, when your empty inside. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
