Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
ED; I understand. Sitting down by oneself requires to have a very strong will. It doesn't come easy to me either. In fact still need from my sangha once a week sitting down with them in order to keep daily discipline. I take my hat to everyone here in the forum who can do this by themselves alone. It's not a good idea to sit down having an expectation of some kind as for instance the one you are pointing out: realising Buddha Nature. There is no realisation of Buddha Nature. That is a notion. There is interconnection, a sense of non separation with the rest of life. If I would be having a purpose when I sit down, the flow of the present moment would be completely loose. It's in that flow that many miracles occur. I'm afraid not be very good to explain. This is why I encourage you to try yourself. Amongst many benefits there is the one of enhancement of the health and well being not just in me but also my surroundings. Mind that this is just my personal experience and not necessarily anybody else experience. Mayka --- On Mon, 1/11/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 1 November, 2010, 0:06 Mayka, Because I am not sufficiently motivated to realize Buddha Nature. Why do you do zazen? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: ED; Why don't you do zazen? Mayka Mayka, Why do you do zazen? --ED
[Zen] Q A
Life is something to be experienced and created. With the heaven and hell the I spoke of in my poem. Try not to create hell. It can be a tragic pure hell slippery slope if you don't. Guess who I'm talking about? Parents. In doing so you find Zen is a natural state of mind. The heart is guided by or just is an extreme authority figure that has priority over all. That's what saved me. Tim Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Children Full of Life
This is a collection of five videos. Found this documentary refreshing. Love its simplicity. I paste the first one and if of interest, follow the number and you'll be finding the rest in the you tube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=armP8TfS9Is Enjoy all! Mayka
Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
Mayka, We are flogging a dead horse. From *my* perspective there is no difference between what you (and Bill and others) say, and what I say. The difference is one of deep orientation: You and Bill and others are (unconsciously) steeped in the fixated and contentious Western Judeo-Christian mind-sets of right/wrong and 'only one way'. I used to be like that too four decades ago, but without any effort on my part, this rigid mind-set began to fall away, thanks to my exposure to Buddhism, Zen, Eastern perspectives and other thing, and I have little difficulty reconciling seemingly conflicting positions. Since we do not seem to be able to communicate, I may limit my comments and responses - provided I possess the will power to do so. ;-) --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: ED; I understand. Sitting down by oneself requires to have a very strong will. It doesn't come easy to me either. In fact still need from my sangha once a week sitting down with them in order to keep daily discipline. I take my hat to everyone here in the forum who can do this by themselves alone. It's not a good idea to sit down having an expectation of some kind as for instance the one you are pointing out: realising Buddha Nature. There is no realisation of Buddha Nature. That is a notion. There is interconnection, a sense of non separation with the rest of life. If I would be having a purpose when I sit down, the flow of the present moment would be completely loose. It's in that flow that many miracles occur. I'm afraid not be very good to explain. This is why I encourage you to try yourself. Amongst many benefits there is the one of enhancement of the health and well being not just in me but also my surroundings. Mind that this is just my personal experience and not necessarily anybody else experience.Mayka Mayka, Because I am not sufficiently motivated to realize Buddha Nature. Why do you do zazen? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: ED; Why don't you do zazen? Mayka Mayka, Why do you do zazen? --ED
Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
Bill, I regard everything you, I, Mayka, I and others say as 'illusory', but one has to do *something* to pass the time of day before the grim reaper arrives. ;-) --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: Ed, In my opinion, and it's only my opinion, those feelings you got reading books on Buddhism are only illusions. You'll eventually need to drop the attachments you have to these. Bill!
Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
Bill, That is merely an assertion (which might be based on illusory conceptions, feelings and experiences.) --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: Ed, Tasting the peach with your whole being is EVERYTHING. It will save your friends, loved ones, all of humanity and all sentient beings. Bill!
[Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
Bill, Wherein do you perceive any intelligence or wisdom in St. Augustine's preference? What does St. Augustine mean by 'compassion'? What do you understand 'compassion' to be? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: I'm forwarding a quote sent to me from another forum. I thought it was pertinent to our current discussions. I would rather feel compassion than know the meaning of it. ST. THOMAS AQUINAS
Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
Mayka, Do you sit at all? If yes, do you sit alone or with a group? On the average, for how many hours per day do you sit? Does your sitting help you control your emotionality? Does it assist you in developing humility, or cultivating a sensitivity to others' feelings? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: ED: Your intelectual sounds pretty thirsty and hungry. Could it be a cause for you to feel so frustated? . Point of sitting down: to stop the mental bzzz!!! Mayka
Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
ED: Will I get paid after responding your questionnaire?. Mayka --- On Mon, 1/11/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 1 November, 2010, 14:07 Mayka, Do you sit at all? If yes, do you sit alone or with a group? On the average, for how many hours per day do you sit? Does your sitting help you control your emotionality? Does it assist you in developing humility, or cultivating a sensitivity to others' feelings? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: ED: Your intelectual sounds pretty thirsty and hungry. Could it be a cause for you to feel so frustated? . Point of sitting down: to stop the mental bzzz!!! Mayka
Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
Mayka, The 'experience' of answering the questions will be be your reward. ;-) --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: ED: Will I get paid after responding your questionnaire?. Mayka
Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
Is it fair to observe you prefer to try to understand Bill's understanding of compassion, than feel compassion? Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone On Nov 1, 2010, at 6:08, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: Bill, Wherein do you perceive any intelligence or wisdom in St. Augustine's preference? What does St. Augustine mean by 'compassion'? What do you understand 'compassion' to be? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: I'm forwarding a quote sent to me from another forum. I thought it was pertinent to our current discussions. I would rather feel compassion than know the meaning of it. ST. THOMAS AQUINAS
Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
He he...Good try!. But not. --- On Mon, 1/11/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 1 November, 2010, 16:10 Mayka, The 'experience' of answering the questions will be be your reward. ;-) --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: ED: Will I get paid after responding your questionnaire?. Mayka
[Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
Chris, First, What do you understand by compassion? What does Bill understand by compassion? What did/do St. Augustine then or Christians today mean bycompassion? In Buddhism, what is compassion? Does zazen give rise to compassion? Depending on your definition of compassion, how does it benefit humanity? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ChrisAustinLane ch...@... wrote: Is it fair to observe you prefer to try to understand Bill's understanding of compassion, than feel compassion? Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane On Nov 1, 2010, at 6:08, ED seacrofter...@... wrote: Bill, Wherein do you perceive any intelligence or wisdom in St. Augustine's preference? What does St. Augustine mean by 'compassion'? What do you understand 'compassion' to be? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, BillSmart@ wrote: I'm forwarding a quote sent to me from another forum. I thought it was pertinent to our current discussions. I would rather feel compassion than know the meaning of it. ST. THOMAS AQUINAS Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
Hey ED: Have you exhausted already the wikipedia search engine definitions?. Wouldn't be more appealing for a subject developing explaining first your own definition according to yourself insight, and experience based in action?.Just a suggestion. Shooting frequent questions as if you were in a search engine and without giving much out of yourself doesn't seem building up any bond of communication as you don't usually answer much of the questions others do to you. Mayka --- On Mon, 1/11/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 1 November, 2010, 17:14 Chris, First, What do you understand by compassion? What does Bill understand by compassion? What did/do St. Augustine then or Christians today mean bycompassion? In Buddhism, what is compassion? Does zazen give rise to compassion? Depending on your definition of compassion, how does it benefit humanity? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ChrisAustinLane ch...@... wrote: Is it fair to observe you prefer to try to understand Bill's understanding of compassion, than feel compassion? Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane On Nov 1, 2010, at 6:08, ED seacrofter...@... wrote: Bill, Wherein do you perceive any intelligence or wisdom in St. Augustine's preference? What does St. Augustine mean by 'compassion'? What do you understand 'compassion' to be? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, BillSmart@ wrote: I'm forwarding a quote sent to me from another forum. I thought it was pertinent to our current discussions. I would rather feel compassion than know the meaning of it. ST. THOMAS AQUINAS
Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
You ask questions but do not answer. Compassion is not something to understand. Bill shows us compassion in his emailing. Compassion does not have a beginning nor an end. Compassion is not a thing to understand, compassion is what is left when we act without adding ourselves into the act. I hope that response to your questions is useful. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone On Nov 1, 2010, at 10:14, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: Chris, First, What do you understand by compassion? What does Bill understand by compassion? What did/do St. Augustine then or Christians today mean bycompassion? In Buddhism, what is compassion? Does zazen give rise to compassion? Depending on your definition of compassion, how does it benefit humanity? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ChrisAustinLane ch...@... wrote: Is it fair to observe you prefer to try to understand Bill's understanding of compassion, than feel compassion? Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane On Nov 1, 2010, at 6:08, ED seacrofter...@... wrote: Bill, Wherein do you perceive any intelligence or wisdom in St. Augustine's preference? What does St. Augustine mean by 'compassion'? What do you understand 'compassion' to be? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, BillSmart@ wrote: I'm forwarding a quote sent to me from another forum. I thought it was pertinent to our current discussions. I would rather feel compassion than know the meaning of it. ST. THOMAS AQUINAS Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Sutra Study
Hello Siska, Sorry. This phrase, Dharma is in the secular world. Enlightenment is within the secular world. is from the Second Chapter of Prajna of the Platform Sutra by the Sixth Patriarch, Hui Neng. This is a good one to read also. I would read it after the Heart Sutra. The key to enlightenment if I may emphasize is to sit. Reading is for the mind. Sitting is for the spirit. :-) JM Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org On 11/1/2010 11:51 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi JMJM, I was actually asking about the specific sutra you quoted before, but since you mentioned some sutras, I might actually look them up :-) siska *From: * Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com *Sender: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *Date: *Sun, 31 Oct 2010 09:38:37 -0700 *To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *ReplyTo: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *Subject: *[Zen] Sutra Study Hello Siska, Thank you for asking. Sutra is nothing but a description of Buddha's journey. Bible is nothing but a description of Jesus' journey. The difference of the two is only in the length. Buddha spoke for 49 years and Jesus had only about 3 years. Yet they both were enlightened to be one with the universe/God/Buddha/Big Mind/Big Spirit. In other words, spirituality is just a connection. Words are just descriptors. For the first 15 years, my Teacher taught nothing but Sitting Chan, which were brought to Japan 600 years later to be pronounced as zazen. After we sat for 15 years, somehow we understood most of the sutra. As Bill would suggest, just sit. And I agree. After you sit with proper Belly Breathing for two to three years, your awareness will rise, you will notice the phenomena in your body and brain. Along this path truth will be unfold. This is really the most effective and quickest way to be enlightened. Okay? Because Buddha spoke for 49 years, there are too many sutra to be read. If you really want to read some of them, then I would begin with Heart Sutra. Read every translation that you can find. Then I would read Xin Xin Ming. Both are very short. By the time you can actually witness both, then you are ready to read Diamond Sutra. Once you truly absorbed Diamond Sutra, you would then realize that words are just emptiness by nature. Everything and every phenomena in our lives are just as they suppose to be. It is us who is interpreting them needlessly. Then the purpose of your life will be unfold to you. Thank you for the opportunity to share. JMJM Head Teacher Order Of Buddha Heart Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org On 10/31/2010 4:02 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi JMJM, Can you please tell me more about this sutra? siska *From: * Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com *Sender: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *Date: *Sat, 30 Oct 2010 09:23:54 -0700 *To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *ReplyTo: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine Hi Siska, That quote I posted was how it was in the sutra, the exact words are, Dharma is in the secular world, Buddha is awakened from the secular world. Due to our ego, usually majority of us consider every day events are not perfectly desirable. That's perhaps the reason for the sutra to verse it this way. Buddhists usually parallel the secular world to the mud of a lotus, and lotus signifies the awakening, or Buddha. That's how Buddhist usually say, Respect the mud, absorb from the mud, cultivate the lotus. Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org On 10/30/2010 7:58 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: Enlightenment is reached from every day life... Not: every day life IS enlightenment? siska *From: * Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com *Sender: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *Date: *Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:22:01 -0700 *To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *ReplyTo: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine Indeed, Bill. If I may add to this very important basics.. The key to eventually integrate it into everyday life is NOT after we reach kensho or satori, but rather practice to drop our discriminating mind for all instances occurring at every moment in our daily life. And do it with harmonious and compassionate heart. Meaning to live with pure heart without judgment or question or suspicion from our limited knowledge or experience. Then we will be able to realize the wisdom/truth for every occurrence. Thus we are able to manage our lives with wisdom. This is labeled as liberation, or detachment from all forms. Sutra stated very clearly, dharma is
[Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
Definitions of compassion on the Web: * a deep awareness of and sympathy for another's suffering * the humane quality of understanding the suffering of others and wanting to do something about it wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn http://www.google.com/url?q=http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn%\ 3Fs%3Dcompassionsa=Xei=3irPTMOQG4i8sQPnsqHtAQved=0CBIQpAMoAAusg=AFQj\ CNEtCiasvnqTn6kEWOE04V6d_ZyqcQ * Compassion is a human emotion prompted by the pain of others. More vigorous than empathy, the feeling commonly gives rise to an active desire to alleviate another's suffering. It is often, though not inevitably, the key component in what manifests in the social context as altruism. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compassion http://www.google.com/url?q=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compassionsa=\ Xei=3irPTMOQG4i8sQPnsqHtAQved=0CBMQpAMoAQusg=AFQjCNG0uXlFEP3-UbSolbCv\ Z8ua3mqkzQ * compassionate - feel for: share the suffering of * compassionate - showing or having compassion; heard the soft and compassionate voices of women wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn http://www.google.com/url?q=http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn%\ 3Fs%3Dcompassionatesa=Xei=3irPTMOQG4i8sQPnsqHtAQved=0CBUQpAMoAwusg=A\ FQjCNGR7UTq9fbGijHAQZiTB2HhvHrfnw * is the desire to identify with or sense something of another's experience; a precursor of caring. [30] www.wcpt.org/node/29562 http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.wcpt.org/node/29562sa=Xei=3irP\ TMOQG4i8sQPnsqHtAQved=0CBYQpAMoBAusg=AFQjCNHMqcsd0QIreyOhabEBgC1w4pZv6\ Q o Understanding without judgment. timolehtinen.com/articles/psyche-glossary/ http://www.google.com/url?q=http://timolehtinen.com/articles/psyche-glo\ ssary/sa=Xei=3irPTMOQG4i8sQPnsqHtAQved=0CBkQpAMoBwusg=AFQjCNG83-BUGp\ CbynJdjZHJRnR5y9H2Pw Chris, Which 'compassion' are you, Bill and St. Augustine referring to? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ChrisAustinLane ch...@... wrote: You ask questions but do not answer. Compassion is not something to understand. Bill shows us compassion in his emailing. Compassion does not have a beginning nor an end. Compassion is not a thing to understand, compassion is what is left when we act without adding ourselves into the act. I hope that response to your questions is useful. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone On Nov 1, 2010, at 10:14, ED seacrofter...@... /group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=GhWbzQud3n8Y7eLrQ5DCJhA8By1dIoAuFgGscAFiff\ 8qe_xb93PlOCVs4I-H8Tq4eOzCse06rbkyJwd829oZmQ wrote: Chris, First, What do you understand by compassion? What does Bill understand by compassion? What did/do St. Augustine then or Christians today mean bycompassion? In Buddhism, what is compassion? Does zazen give rise to compassion? Depending on your definition of compassion, how does it benefit humanity? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com /group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=inyvZcqoeaxHnnd3TwsUC_kIhvaSaYEbC3saK318rQ\ GjigAkNzgtY7m7xtFpf4zH3E1s3CfamUO1Cu7YMZf9jaU , ChrisAustinLane ch...@... wrote: Is it fair to observe you prefer to try to understand Bill's understanding of compassion, than feel compassion? Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane On Nov 1, 2010, at 6:08, ED seacrofter...@... wrote: Bill, Wherein do you perceive any intelligence or wisdom in St. Augustine's preference? What does St. Augustine mean by 'compassion'? What do you understand 'compassion' to be? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com /group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=inyvZcqoeaxHnnd3TwsUC_kIhvaSaYEbC3saK318rQ\ GjigAkNzgtY7m7xtFpf4zH3E1s3CfamUO1Cu7YMZf9jaU , BillSmart@ wrote: I'm forwarding a quote sent to me from another forum. I thought it was pertinent to our current discussions. I would rather feel compassion than know the meaning of it. ST. THOMAS AQUINAS
Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
The Tao which can be named is not the Dao. I walk by a plastic bag, and pick it up with my free hand. I get woken up by my spouses absurdly early alarm and tense up with irritation and then let that irritation flow and relax back into an extra hour of sleep. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone On Nov 1, 2010, at 14:09, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: Definitions of compassion on the Web: a deep awareness of and sympathy for another's suffering the humane quality of understanding the suffering of others and wanting to do something about it wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn Compassion is a human emotion prompted by the pain of others. More vigorous than empathy, the feeling commonly gives rise to an active desire to alleviate another's suffering. It is often, though not inevitably, the key component in what manifests in the social context as altruism. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compassion compassionate - feel for: share the suffering of compassionate - showing or having compassion; heard the soft and compassionate voices of women wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn is the desire to identify with or sense something of another's experience; a precursor of caring. [30] www.wcpt.org/node/29562 o Understanding without judgment. timolehtinen.com/articles/psyche-glossary/ Chris, Which 'compassion' are you, Bill and St. Augustine referring to? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ChrisAustinLane ch...@... wrote: You ask questions but do not answer. Compassion is not something to understand. Bill shows us compassion in his emailing. Compassion does not have a beginning nor an end. Compassion is not a thing to understand, compassion is what is left when we act without adding ourselves into the act. I hope that response to your questions is useful. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone On Nov 1, 2010, at 10:14, ED seacrofter...@... wrote: Chris, First, What do you understand by compassion? What does Bill understand by compassion? What did/do St. Augustine then or Christians today mean bycomp assion? In Buddhism, what is compassion? Does zazen give rise to compassion? Depending on your definition of compassion, how does it benefit humanity? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ChrisAustinLane ch...@... wrote: Is it fair to observe you prefer to try to understand Bill's understanding of compassion, than feel compassion? Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane On Nov 1, 2010, at 6:08, ED seacrofter...@... wrote: Bill, Wherein do you perceive any intelligence or wisdom in St. Augustine's preference? What does St. Augustine mean by ' compassion'? What do you understand 'compassion' to be? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, BillSmart@ wrote: I'm forwarding a quote sent to me from another forum. I thought it was pertinent to our current discussions. I would rather feel compassion than know the meaning of it. ST. THOMAS AQUINAS
RE: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
Bill, I got them on the website. Anthony --- On Mon, 1/11/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org Subject: RE: [Zen] Questions, questions, question To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 1 November, 2010, 11:15 AM Anthony, I noticed that some posts are being repeated – and not just mine. I hadn’t noticed them being repeated 6 times, but I believe you. How do you get these posts? Do you get them sent to you in your email, or do you go to the website? I’ll look into it. …Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 5:00 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] Questions, questions, question Bill, This post of yours have been repeated at least six times. At the rate of 10c per piece, you are getting 60c or Baht 18. How much flight lice can you get for that? Anthony --- On Sun, 31/10/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org Subject: RE: [Zen] Questions, questions, question To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 31 October, 2010, 12:38 PM Siska, I think there is a distinct difference between doing and feeling something and only reading about it. There is absolutely the experience of reading. That’s yours, and that might invoke a similar experience to what the writer is writing about. That’s the goal of good writing – to communicate experience (or thoughts). You can read all you want about what swimming is like, but until you actually jump into deep water you really don’t ‘know’ swimming. Read ‘know’ in the prior sentence as ‘experience’. Experience is what’s important, not just ‘knowing’. Knowing or understanding is an intellectual activity. Experience is living. Intellectual activities are part of living also, but only a very small insignificant piece – in my opinion. Most people put way too much importance on them and as a result are attached to them. …Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of siska_...@yahoo.com Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2010 9:56 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question Hi Bill, I'd advise you to value your own experience more than the account of someone else's In essence, aren't they the same? siska From: billsm...@hhs1963.org Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 20:12:29 +0700 To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] Questions, questions, question Siska, In a previous post you wrote: [Siska] I have also come across people who sit and then start to look down on people who only read (or seems so). This is perhaps the other extreme to those who are attached to texts and intellectual knowledge. The direct experience itself is a direct experience only at the time one experiences it. Afterwards, it is just memory of what it was, which can be differently perceived by different people who experience it, or even same person at different time. So, it is not wise to attach to this so-called direct experience either, in my opinion. You are correct that you shouldn't form an attachment to either your own experience or intellectual knowledge - but it is important to note that the experience, even its memory, is your experience; whereas whatever you read or are taught is at best the 2nd- or 3rd-hand account of someone else's experience, and at worst the inaccurate or fictional account of someone else's experience. I'd advise you to value your own experience more than the account of someone else's. ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Maria Lopez Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 5:43 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question Siska: I have also come across people who sit and then start to look down on people who only read (or seems so). This is perhaps the other extreme to those who are attached to texts and intellectual knowledge. The direct experience itself is a direct experience only at the time one experiences it. Afterwards, it is just memory of what it was, which can be differently perceived by different people who experience it, or even same person at different time. So, it is not wise to attach to this so-called direct experience either, in my opinion. Mayka: Have you been in many other zen groups?, By your statement it sounds as if you were. As far as my experience concerns on this website haven't seen yet any of those kind of practitioners looking down people you give description about but I have seen in more quantities of the other ones I previously mentioned.. . Siska: Yes, sometimes what is left is just the breathing. Personally, I don't distinguish body and mind in the awareness.
RE: [Zen] Sutra Study
thoughts and concepts of the discriminating mind (the rational mind that creates dualisms such as self/other, subject/object and makes judgments such as good/bad, right/wrong) are illusions. Only direct experience is not illusory. 'Direct' means before the experience goes through the discriminating mind and gets processed there (filtered, augmented, named, categorized, assigned a value, etc...). Zen Buddhism calls this 'Buddha Mind' or 'Buddha Nature'. Joshu called it 'Mu' and 'The Oak Tree in the Garden'. Ummon called it 'A Dried Shit-Stick'. Gutei just held up his index finger. I call it 'Just THIS!'. So I now ask you: What is Buddha? ...Bill! __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5569 (20101027)__ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5569 (20101027)__ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5569 (20101027)__ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5569 (20101027) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5569 (20101027) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5574 (20101029) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5574 (20101029) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5574 (20101029) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5583 (20101101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5583 (20101101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5583 (20101101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
Ed, Ed, Ed I posted a quote attributed to St. Thomas Aquinas: I would rather feel compassion than know the meaning of it. You then asked: [Ed] Wherein do you perceive any intelligence or wisdom in St. Augustine's preference? [Bill!] I don't perceive any intelligence in St. Aquinas' statement above. I do however perceive a lot of wisdom. I perceive the wisdom in his stated preference for experience over knowledge. [Ed] What does St. Augustine mean by 'compassion'? [Bill!] I don't know and I don't care. The meaning of compassion is not important in the quote, in fact the quote itself says that. You can substitute any word you want for 'compassion' in his quote and the wisdom will still be there. [Ed] What do you understand 'compassion' to be? [Bill!] I understand 'compassion' to mean 'to be aware of the feelings of others'. Merriam-Webster Online defines it as sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it. That definition satisfies me. An example would be: I feel compassion towards you for reading that quote and then asking those three questions. ...Bill! __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5583 (20101101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
Ed, [Bill! from an earlier post] Tasting the peach with your whole being is EVERYTHING. It will save you, your friends, loved ones, all of humanity and all sentient beings. [Ed} That is merely an assertion (which might be based on illusory conceptions, feelings and experiences.) [Bill!] Is not 'merely' an assertion, it is an assertion! It is not based on conceptions or feelings. It is based on experience. ...Bill! __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5583 (20101101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Sutra Study
mailto:siska_cen%40yahoo.com Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 12:03 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine Hi Ed, Bill, I just remember reading somewhere, long time ago that Buddha literally means the awakened one. If I google the term for definition, I'd probably find something like this too (among others), which means that Buddha is the one who is awakened instead of direct experience. So I think I'm going to skip all the definitions and allow this mind to perceive whatever is when reading your posts. Sound like a lot more fun :-) siska From: billsm...@hhs1963.org mailto:BillSmart%40HHS1963.org Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:25:33 +0700 To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine Ed, ‘One’ does not experience Buddha. The term ‘Buddha’ and ‘direct experience’ are the same thing. Buddha is direct experience. ‘One’ (self) is not present. …Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ED Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2010 1:03 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Zen, Self, I, Me and Mine Whatever one experiences 'Buddha' to be. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum%40yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: Ed, Your question: What on earth is not an illusion? is what zen is all about! All thoughts and concepts of the discriminating mind (the rational mind that creates dualisms such as self/other, subject/object and makes judgments such as good/bad, right/wrong) are illusions. Only direct experience is not illusory. 'Direct' means before the experience goes through the discriminating mind and gets processed there (filtered, augmented, named, categorized, assigned a value, etc...). Zen Buddhism calls this 'Buddha Mind' or 'Buddha Nature'. Joshu called it 'Mu' and 'The Oak Tree in the Garden'. Ummon called it 'A Dried Shit-Stick'. Gutei just held up his index finger. I call it 'Just THIS!'. So I now ask you: What is Buddha? ...Bill! __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5569 (20101027)__ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5569 (20101027)__ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5569 (20101027)__ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5569 (20101027) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5569 (20101027) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5574 (20101029) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5574 (20101029) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5574 (20101029) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5583 (20101101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5583 (20101101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5583 (20101101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
RE: [Zen] Questions, questions, question
but not the place itself. Searching for a reliable Teacher, with a direct experience of what he may be teaching about (Walking the talk), and working with him instructions is the wises action you could do if you are honestly interested in zen. Differently here in the forum you'll be having a great entertainment but not much of real zen. In a few words, you are wasting your time. But enjoy the ride and tides with us anyway! Hope this helps a little bit. Mayka --- On Wed, 27/10/10, siska_...@yahoo.com siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: From: siska_...@yahoo.com siska_...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, 27 October, 2010, 2:05 Hello Ed, Thanks for the welcome :) I am not familiar with the terms being used here, especially when you all are discussing about buddha nature, zen, the Law and all that. The way I understand it from this forum, there are no fix definitions for the terms anyway and I somehow feel that is the way it should be. I'm currently reading Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind and I read Sit Down and Shut Up (or was it Shut up and Sit Down?) and I quite like both. Looking forward to learning more from this forum. Wow, seventeen trillion events.. siska From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:44:50 - To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question siska, Welcome to the Zen Forum. If you like what you have just seen, you must be (at least partially) enlightened. The Buddha might say: Seventeen trillion events transpired in the course of that interchange. I look forward to your joining in the conversations. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_...@... wrote: Hi All, I'm new to this list and I'm new to Zen. I think I like this list. siska Mayka, I'm sorry that you feel that way. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: ALL WHAT I MEAN IS THAT YOU HAVE BORED ME TO DEATH. LET ME ALONE GET LOST. DO YOUÂ GET IT NOW...GOSH!!! __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5574 (20101029)__ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5574 (20101029)__ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5576 (20101029) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5576 (20101029) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5578 (20101031) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5580 (20101031) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5583 (20101101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5583 (20101101) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
