Re: [Zen] New Member
Yes. I have been privileged to have access to something that when I've tried to explain what it is, comes out very techno-babble (I work in computers). I've referred to it as a server cluster of minds - a cluster is a setup in which computers share spare resources to communally think on the same thing. It is something in the way I learn that has been there for several years, and I suspect it was always there, although in the beginning I believe I was less aware of it and not trusting of it. When I encounter new things I observe, I don't think (most of the time). Those observations get sent immediately to my subconscious mind and I trust in it to spit out the answer - sometimes the process takes days, sometimes months, and occasionally it is years before a concept echoes back to me with its answer. This same something is what let me perceive (among many other things) that every being is a part of the world, no one truly leaving it, simply being reborn - with no need for a religion to tell me such. And now I read about the one mind, the buddha mind and I wonder if what I think of as a cluster of minds is indeed this Buddha-Net. If that is indeed the case, we are all Buddhas, most people just don't know it yet. -Lana We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life. - William Osler On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 6:22 PM, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: Lana, From your own experience (which is the only non-illusory mode of sensing true reality that is accepted on this zen forum,) have you any evidence that 'buddhas' exist? Thanks, --ED
Re: [Zen] New Member
This is the very issue - to be Zen is to be frozen, cold, selfish to those who are still stuck in dualism. They can not fathom, in their context of the world, that it is possible for someone to believe/support/accept/embody polar opposites. They do not realize the best compassion is given spontaneously, without thought/premeditation, without it being asked/demanded for. -Lana We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life. - William Osler On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.comwrote: Actually I like him better as a non practitioner because in this way he's warm, very affectionate, passionate... and all mine! (I know this last remark is samsara but don't care. I don't think I coud handle to have a frozen practitioner as a boyfriend)
Re: [Zen] New Member
[Bill!] Why does this attitude of other people make you sad? If what you say is true then your very life is providing them with an example of a content human being. You can do no more unless they specifically ask you for guidance. Because they can not understand I am (usually) content. How is one an effective example to others when others can not see? I suppose I am an example should they want to see. I tried to have a relationship. But monks didn't really do that, did they? After all these relationships I've had over the course of my life, I think I've finally learned that for me to have a relationship with someone, they really need to occupy the same mind as I do. [Bill!] You correctly see that 'gifts' that are given with an expectation of reward - like a thanks, are not truly gifts. They are pre-payments or bribes. You cannot save them from being miserable. You can only save yourself, and by doing can set an example for them. If they are interested in your example they'll ask. Otherwise there's not much you can do. That is an excellent way to put the issue of gifts. [Bill!] You can teach by coddling and nurturing or teach with 'tough love'. Zen is mostly known for the 'tough love' approach (leaving a prospective student to sit at the entrance to the zen master's cave for a year before he/she has shown sufficient mettle to be accepted as a student), but some historical zen master's have used the more touchy-feely approach. In this era most zen masters/teachers have a more soft approach - at least in the beginning. I don't believe I have much coddling and nurturing in me to teach with. It simply does not come naturally except for the random instance of no-thought compassion. Someone who expects coddling learns best from not having it. So I ask: How do you interact with the people in this world? [Bill!] That would depend on what role you want to play for them, or if you want to play a role at all. If you want to play the role of teacher to them I'd advise you to develop teaching skills that cover the entire spectrum of 'tough love' to 'grandmotherly nurturing'. Then you adapt YOURSELF and your teaching style to the particular student. If you're not interested in being a teacher then it really doesn't matter how you interact with others as long as it is genuine - no role - you are not better off for your happiness and they are not worse off for their materialism. You are just you and they are just them. I've often said zen is the ultimate WYSIWYG (a computer term for 'what you see is what you get'. Just be Lana. That's more than enough. If I were to choose to be a teacher, I would not choose the people in question as students. If 'just being Lana' causes YOU discomfort (as you've described above) I'd suggest you continue to re-examine your situation to try to determine WHY this discomfort exists. I can't tell you WHY it exists for you, but I can tell you the discomfort is created within you, not forced upon you by others. It exists because I am connected to everyone on the mental plane yet there is no one on the physical plane for me to truly relate to. The people I interact with on the physical plane are lost, they do not wish to learn. I guess this is one of the few worldly desires I have left - to be physically close to another person. Of course I do this with zen practice - mostly zazen - but as you've pointed out at the beginning of your post this is not absolutely necessary. I realized tonight that I have indeed been practicing forms of meditation all my life, yet I never considered them such until I gained the experience of zazen. When I was really young, I could not fall asleep fast. It would sometimes take me hours to settle, which didn't work well with my extremely high sleep requirement at the time (10-12 hours). I realized the culprit was thought and started a bedtime journal. The thoughts would fall away from my mind as my hand conveyed them on paper - I no longer analyzed, I simply recorded. I did this for many years until I no longer needed the pen and paper to quiet my mind. For a long time after that I achieved a quiet mind by reading fiction (still do, from time to time). I don't know if there is something particular in how I read, but I simply observe what goes on in the book, I don't think about it. Errant thoughts that pop up while reading I sit back for a moment to let them pass then continue on. I have always had a high requirement for nature. To see trees, grass, mountains - my mind naturally harmonizes with them and I find I am too caught up in observation to think even when I want to. When I was really young, I used to lean against a tree trunk and visualize it anchoring me, my spirit flowing down it's roots and feeling the cool dirt - I no longer need that focus to empty my mind in the presence of nature. Over the last year or so, I have found I can have that no-mind even when
Re: [Zen] New Member
For me the issue is not location, it has nothing to do with noise or hustle-bustle. It has to do with non-superficial interaction with people, which I guess in and of itself is the issue because that is not the Way. Thank you for the realization. -Lana We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life. - William Osler On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:50 PM, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: Lana, There are times that quietude and solitude are helpful in zen practice, especially in the beginning. But eventually you have to bring your practice into the 'real world'. Zen is everyday life. You should be able to maintain Buddha Mind in the middle of Times Square New York City during rush hour just as well as in a cave in Tibet. ...Bill!
Re: [Zen] New Member
In my experience, there is an innate knowing when encountering another person currently occupying the same mind as you do. -Lana We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life. - William Osler On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:06 PM, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: Bill, How would one recognize a Buddha Mind in the real world? Has there been or is there any roshi in America who has been an exemplar on how to manifest Buddha Nature in the real world? --ED
Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices
Anthony, My reading and yours is that samadhi precedes kenso/satori. I would like to see how JMJM justifies his statement that kensho/satori precedes samadhi. I am under the impression that Bill asserts that samadhi is no other than kensho-satori. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED/JMJM, I think JM means kensho is prior to samadhi, which is way before satori. JM's position is unique. Anthony
Re: [Zen] New Member
Anthony, A human succeeds in fulfilling the three essential goals of 'eat, survive , reproduce' is due to the power of his 'ego' to focus on them. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED, You say: if babies had no egos, the only babies who survived for more than a few days would be 'buddhas' - and the population of human buddhas on this earth would be nil. --ED Is there any logic in saying that? For someone of low intelligence, if the said babies survive, the population of worldly buddhas will expand dramatically. Anthony
[Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone? A mother who really cares for her child will put on her own oxygen mask first. On the other hand, The life of an enlightened being is like the shadow of a bird on water. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: Bill, You got it wrong. Bodhisatvas advise you put the oxygen mask on other people before you have it on yourself. You have not answer whether you don't think preventing turmoil is necessary. Anthony
Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices
Anthony, I notice that JMJM in one of his more recent posts agrees with the samadhi, kensho, satori temporal sequence. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter...@... wrote: Anthony, My reading and yours is that samadhi precedes kenso/satori. I would like to see how JMJM justifies his statement that kensho/satori precedes samadhi. I am under the impression that Bill asserts that samadhi is no other than kensho-satori. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED/JMJM, I think JM means kensho is prior to samadhi, which is way before satori. JM's position is unique. Anthony
[Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
The historical records required for a complete, accurate account of early Ch¨¢n history no longer exist.[ Theories about the influence of other schools in the evolution of Ch¨¢n are widely variable and rely heavily on speculative correlation rather than on written records or histories. Some scholars have argued that Ch¨¢n developed from the interaction between Mah¨¡y¨¡na Buddhism and Taoism. Some scholars instead argue that Ch¨¢n has roots in yogic practices, specifically kammaá¹á¹h¨¡na, the consideration of objects, and kasiá¹a, total fixation of the mind. A number of other conflicting theories exist. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: Hi Siska, The terminology of Chan maybe Buddhist. The practice of Chan, however, originated from Tao, the creator of Qi Gong. :-) Yet, Sitting Chan practice has its differences from Qi Gong. I will explain when time comes. Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org http://www.heartchan.org
Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices
JMJM, Emptiness maybe, but more pertinent to our discussion, according to Bill, they should not be of interest to anyone else as they are not *their* experience. --ED PS: I do not necessarily disagree with Bill. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: Ed, Correct. All these description are description of experience. No one in the world can know you what you have experienced. Therefore the description of any states is just emptiness. Therefore these type of discussion is emptiness.. :-) Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org http://www.heartchan.org Hi JMJM, All you can correctly assert is that you have experiened something. You cannot all by yourself tell whether what you have experienced is samadhi or kensho. --ED
Re: [Zen] New Member
Babies do not split life into self and other. Also they do not get distracted by abstract worries. They are fully present in the moment. They are not much concerned with stuff outside of their own internal needs, but that is appropriate. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone On Nov 24, 2010, at 17:33, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: Lana, The way in which babies normally and naturally behave is to be obsessed with 'I/me/mine' (it's ego), with no regard whatsoever for the needs of its mother or anyone else - and without which attitude it would not survive. In short, if babies had no egos, the only babies who survived for more than a few days would be 'buddhas' - and the population of human buddhas on this earth would be nil. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Lana M. Gibbons lana.m.gibb...@... wrote: No, Thank You. I already have much of the infant's mentality, the lack of duality, the awareness, the no-mind - to discard all of what I have learned so far would be to discard my true self. The typical five year old has many concepts and ideas, they are possessive, materialistic, extreme in their sense of duality, some even expect others to serve them - that is nothing I strive towards being. If all children naturally developed as Buddhas, there would be no need for Buddhism to exist. -Lana
[Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
JMJM, Here are some thoughts from a Zen Teacher's Dharma Talk on the subject of breathing during zazen: Breath is a core component of zazen. Gently settle your breath into its natural rhythm. Start your in-breathing from the base of the abdomen. Feel the diaphragm rise and fall. Without force, extend your out-breath until all the air has been expelled. When the body is ready it will respond naturally with a gentle inhalation. The in-breath should be exquisitely slow, gentle and steady. Large volumes of air are not required to maintain the body during a sit. --ED I was under the impression that the exhale was to take longer than the inhale. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming -wrote:: Thank you Bill. Yes it is 15 seconds. 6 seconds inhale. hold for 3 seconds. 6 seconds out. :-) Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org http://www.heartchan.org
[Zen] Re: New Member
In one way or another, in effect, babies are almost entirely focused on me-me-me, that is they are continually looking for food and a comfortable environment, with no regard for anything or anyone else. This 'selfishness' has nothing to do with any carry-over from previous lives. Babies have evolved to be this way because such behavior enhances their chances of survival in the Darwinian struggle of life. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=6V7BTNP_2B4YJ8ciudm\ J-xfqPPUBb4xu_obOa8gfzS_GtzhadfQsSaexQUklkWL1nAZhSNpeaEYNIurbD6a7KQE8 , Chris wrote: Babies do not split life into self and other. Also they do not get distracted by abstract worries. They are fully present in the moment. They are not much concerned with stuff outside of their own internal needs, but that is appropriate. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Lana, The way in which babies normally and naturally behave is to be obsessed with 'I/me/mine' (it's ego), with no regard whatsoever for the needs of its mother or anyone else - and without which attitude it would not survive. In short, if babies had no egos, the only babies who survived for more than a few days would be 'buddhas' - and the population of human buddhas on this earth would be nil. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com /group/Zen_Forum/post?postID=6V7BTNP_2B4YJ8ciudmJ-xfqPPUBb4xu_obOa8gfzS\ _GtzhadfQsSaexQUklkWL1nAZhSNpeaEYNIurbD6a7KQE8 , Lana M. Gibbons lana.m.gibb...@... wrote: No, Thank You. I already have much of the infant's mentality, the lack of duality, the awareness, the no-mind - to discard all of what I have learned so far would be to discard my true self. The typical five year old has many concepts and ideas, they are possessive, materialistic, extreme in their sense of duality, some even expect others to serve them - that is nothing I strive towards being. If all children naturally developed as Buddhas, there would be no need for Buddhism to exist. -Lana
Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices
Hi Ed, True. In the world of words, instead of emptiness, I prefer to use the phrase of incomplete. Every perspective is a valid one, just incomplete. Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org On 11/25/2010 6:50 AM, ED wrote: JMJM, Emptiness maybe, but more pertinent to our discussion, according to Bill, they should not be of interest to anyone else as they are not *their* experience. --ED PS: I do not necessarily disagree with Bill. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: Ed, Correct. All these description are description of experience. No one in the world can know you what you have experienced. Therefore the description of any states is just emptiness. Therefore these type of discussion is emptiness.. :-) Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org Hi JMJM, All you can correctly assert is that you have experiened something. You cannot all by yourself tell whether what you have experienced is samadhi or kensho. --ED
Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
Hi Ed, There are several levels of belly breathing. * At the beginning, we recommend practitioner to breathe with intended large volume breathing, especially those can not even breathe with belly. * For a month or two, when they are able to breathe with their belly, then we ask them to let it breathe naturally, as per the article you find. * Then we ask them to abandon their focus on breathing and focus on a chakra. * Then we ask them to do more advanced breathing..In teaching Chan, we usually talk about half step at a time. I have said too much already. What's missing in the article you find is the key component of awareness. The most important objective in belly breathing is to cultivate our awareness by following the breathing path, by sensing the chi, by noticing our physical conditions. So that we could be aware the activities of our mind and heart and karma. JMJM Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org On 11/25/2010 7:13 AM, ED wrote: JMJM, Here are some thoughts from a Zen Teacher's Dharma Talk on the subject of breathing during zazen: Breath is a core component of zazen. Gently settle your breath into its natural rhythm. Start your in-breathing from the base of the abdomen. Feel the diaphragm rise and fall. Without force, extend your out-breath until all the air has been expelled. When the body is ready it will respond naturally with a gentle inhalation. The in-breath should be exquisitely slow, gentle and steady. Large volumes of air are not required to maintain the body during a sit. --ED I was under the impression that the exhale was to take longer than the inhale. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming -wrote:: Thank you Bill. Yes it is 15 seconds. 6 seconds inhale. hold for 3 seconds. 6 seconds out. :-) Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org
Re: [Zen] New Member
It is very easy to feel there is no difference between self and other while alone, whether under a tree outside or in a server room. Maintaining that understanding while a person that knows you well and is really mad at you and is in some conflict with you is a different challenge. I sometimes joke that my koan that I am working on is 'my wife and I are not two.' I do find that my getting upset at other people is showing I have some idea that reality should be different than it is. The nice thing about an intimate relationship in the zen context is that it is much harder to fool yourself about your level of maturity than when you are more alone. I personally also find that while he various forms of moving meditation are a good way to maintain calm awareness, zazen is unsurpassed for establishing it in the first place. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone On Nov 25, 2010, at 3:47, Lana M. Gibbons lana.m.gibb...@gmail.com wrote: For me the issue is not location, it has nothing to do with noise or hustle-bustle. It has to do with non-superficial interaction with people, which I guess in and of itself is the issue because that is not the Way. Thank you for the realization. -Lana We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life. - William Osler On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:50 PM, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: Lana, There are times that quietude and solitude are helpful in zen practice, especially in the beginning. But eventually you have to bring your practice into the 'real world'. Zen is everyday life. You should be able to maintain Buddha Mind in the middle of Times Square New York City during rush hour just as well as in a cave in Tibet. ...Bill!
Re: [Zen] New Member
Perhaps Chris is trying to say that our sufferings are often caused by having expectations of others, while babies do not.Our job in this life is to practice Six Act of Perfection without expectation. :-) Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org On 11/25/2010 7:11 AM, ChrisAustinLane wrote: Babies do not split life into self and other. Also they do not get distracted by abstract worries. They are fully present in the moment. They are not much concerned with stuff outside of their own internal needs, but that is appropriate. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone On Nov 24, 2010, at 17:33, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com mailto:seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: Lana, The way in which babies normally and naturally behave is to be obsessed with 'I/me/mine' (it's ego), with no regard whatsoever for the needs of its mother or anyone else - and without which attitude it would not survive. In short, if babies had no egos, the only babies who survived for more than a few days would be 'buddhas' - and the population of human buddhas on this earth would be nil. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Lana M. Gibbons lana.m.gibb...@... wrote: No, Thank You. I already have much of the infant's mentality, the lack of duality, the awareness, the no-mind - to discard all of what I have learned so far would be to discard my true self. The typical five year old has many concepts and ideas, they are possessive, materialistic, extreme in their sense of duality, some even expect others to serve them - that is nothing I strive towards being. If all children naturally developed as Buddhas, there would be no need for Buddhism to exist. -Lana
Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
Hi Ed, In the year 600, XuanZang, a most famous Chinese monk, well-respected Buddhism scholar, went to India in search for Yogacarabhumi sutra, (not sure of its correct name). Chan practice contains many similar parallels to yoga. I.e. in our school we have Dong Chan, or Chan exercise, in addition to Sitting Chan, originated from Bodhisdharma, (it was so said). We exercise before we sit down. Same as yoga. Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org On 11/25/2010 6:05 AM, ED wrote: The historical records required for a complete, accurate account of early Ch¨¢n history no longer exist.^[ Theories about the influence of other schools in the evolution of Ch¨¢n are widely variable and rely heavily on speculative correlation rather than on written records or histories. Some scholars have argued that Ch¨¢n developed from the interaction between Mah¨¡y¨¡na Buddhism and Taoism. Some scholars instead argue that Ch¨¢n has roots in yogic practices, specifically /kammaá¹á¹h¨¡na/, the consideration of objects, and /kasiṇa/, total fixation of the mind. A number of other conflicting theories exist. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: Hi Siska, The terminology of Chan maybe Buddhist. The practice of Chan, however, originated from Tao, the creator of Qi Gong. :-) Yet, Sitting Chan practice has its differences from Qi Gong. I will explain when time comes. Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org
Re: [Zen] Re: New Member
An for a baby, that is right action, perfectly suitable to the conditions. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone On Nov 25, 2010, at 7:32, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: In one way or another, in effect, babies are almost entirely focused on me-me-me, that is they are continually looking for food and a comfortable environment, with no regard for anything or anyone else. This 'selfishness' has nothing to do with any carry-over from previous lives. Babies have evolved to be this way because such behavior enhances their chances of survival in the Darwinian struggle of life. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris wrote: Babies do not split life into self and other. Also they do not get distracted by abstract worries. They are fully present in the moment. They are not much concerned with stuff outside of their own internal needs, but that is appropriate. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Lana, The way in which babies normally and naturally behave is to be obsessed with 'I/me/mine' (it's ego), with no regard whatsoever for the needs of its mother or anyone else - and without which attitude it would not survive. In short, if babies had no egos, the only babies who survived for more than a few days would be 'buddhas' - and the population of human buddhas on this earth would be nil. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Lana M. Gibbons lana.m.gibb...@... wrote: No, Thank You. I already have much of the infant's mentality, the lack of duality, the awareness, the no-mind - to discard all of what I have learned so far would be to discard my true self. The typical five year old has many concepts and ideas, they are possessive, materialistic, extreme in their sense of duality, some even expect others to serve them - that is nothing I strive towards being. If all children naturally developed as Buddhas, there would be no need for Buddhism to exist. -Lana
Re: [Zen] New Member
Lana: Yes, you have a point here and agree. I often have experienced the same. At the same time and this is not addressed personal to you as criticism of any kind but purely as a meanings of sharing with the Buddha in you, in me, and every body else. A person who genuinely believes of being a zen, Buddhist practitioner but whose becomes cold as a stone for fear of being sometimes contaminated by dualism, negative energies of all kinds or by the ones who don't share one views, ideas, way of sensing life...then the practise has a twist and becomes harmful to that person and also to all life around that person since we're not separated from anything not even from samsara. To me one of the greatest beauties of zen as real practicality and well being, is that generates and continuously shares compassion with all beings and doesn't even know of doing. There is the words of a Spanish song that says something like this, amongst other things: I'm like the reed that bends but never breaks and always kept up Mayka --- On Thu, 25/11/10, Lana M. Gibbons lana.m.gibb...@gmail.com wrote: From: Lana M. Gibbons lana.m.gibb...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Zen] New Member To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 11:06 This is the very issue - to be Zen is to be frozen, cold, selfish to those who are still stuck in dualism. They can not fathom, in their context of the world, that it is possible for someone to believe/support/accept/embody polar opposites. They do not realize the best compassion is given spontaneously, without thought/premeditation, without it being asked/demanded for. -Lana We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life. - William Osler On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com wrote: Actually I like him better as a non practitioner because in this way he's warm, very affectionate, passionate... and all mine! (I know this last remark is samsara but don't care. I don't think I coud handle to have a frozen practitioner as a boyfriend)
Re: [Zen] New Member
There is a difference between being cold and being thought of as cold. -Lana We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life. - William Osler On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.comwrote: *Lana:* *Yes, you have a point here and agree. I often have experienced the same. At the same time and this is not addressed personal to you as criticism of any kind but purely as a meanings of sharing with the Buddha in you, in me, and every body else.* ** *A person who genuinely believes of being a zen, Buddhist practitioner but whose becomes cold as a stone for fear of being sometimes contaminated by dualism, negative energies of all kinds or by the ones who don't share one views, ideas, way of sensing life...then the practise has a twist and becomes harmful to that person and also to all life around that person since * we're not separated from anything not even from samsara. To me one of the greatest beauties of zen as real practicality and well being, is that generates and continuously shares compassion with all beings and doesn't even know of doing. There is the words of a Spanish song that says something like this, amongst other things: I'm like the reed that bends but never breaks and always kept up Mayka
Re: [Zen] New Member
I have no one that knows me well. -Lana We are here to add what we can to life, not to get what we can from life. - William Osler On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 8:48 AM, ChrisAustinLane ch...@austin-lane.netwrote: It is very easy to feel there is no difference between self and other while alone, whether under a tree outside or in a server room. Maintaining that understanding while a person that knows you well and is really mad at you and is in some conflict with you is a different challenge. I sometimes joke that my koan that I am working on is 'my wife and I are not two.' I do find that my getting upset at other people is showing I have some idea that reality should be different than it is. The nice thing about an intimate relationship in the zen context is that it is much harder to fool yourself about your level of maturity than when you are more alone. I personally also find that while he various forms of moving meditation are a good way to maintain calm awareness, zazen is unsurpassed for establishing it in the first place. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone
[Zen] Ego, dharma, search, etc.
Hi All, Just got this from one of our practitioners. I translate some phrases which I enjoyed for your reference... (warning... all translations are incomplete..) Written by FaRon Chan Master of NiuTou Mountain... Later passed to Japan became TianDai Lineage. --- When no notion rises, exists no opinion. Originally no dharma, who's discussing or refining. No beginning no end, nothing when search. When no action, naturally all unfold. While heart is impure, all dharma hinder. Ego roams, analyzing falsehood. . Obtain mental calmness, practice with no mind. - Guard mental calmness, still is sick. Let go of birth and death is true nature. *《牛頭山初祖法融 禪師心銘》*** 【唐】法融禪師撰 注：此經出自《大藏經》第51卷 心 性不生，何須知見。 本無一法，誰論熏煉。 往返無端，追尋不見。 一切莫作，明寂自現。 前際如空，知處迷宗。 分明照境，隨照冥蒙。 一心有滯，諸法不通。 去來自爾，胡假推窮。 生無生相，生照一同。 欲得心淨，無心用功。 縱橫無照，最為微妙。 知法無知，無知知要。 將心守靜，猶未離病。 生死忘懷，即是本性。 -- Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com http://www.heartchan.org
Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices
ED, JM realized he had mistaken samadhi for sama sambuddha. Anthony --- On Thu, 25/11/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Three Buddhist Practices To: zen_foru...@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 9:33 PM Anthony, My reading and yours is that samadhi precedes kenso/satori. I would like to see how JMJM justifies his statement that kensho/satori precedes samadhi. I am under the impression that Bill asserts that samadhi is no other than kensho-satori. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED/JMJM, I think JM means kensho is prior to samadhi, which is way before satori. JM's position is unique. Anthony
Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
ED, You say: Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone? My suggestion: fly to Dharamsala and ask Dalai Lama. (It is an essential mahayana teaching that you should help others before helping yourself.) Anthony --- On Thu, 25/11/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 9:46 PM Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone? A mother who really cares for her child will put on her own oxygen mask first. On the other hand, The life of an enlightened being is like the shadow of a bird on water. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: Bill, You got it wrong. Bodhisatvas advise you put the oxygen mask on other people before you have it on yourself. You have not answer whether you don't think preventing turmoil is necessary. Anthony
[Zen] Thanks for an engaging listserv!
I really enjoy interacting with the zen forum. It is entertaining and educational (in the old sense, to be led out of myself). I bow to the ten directions in gratitude. May the winds of this day find all of you well! Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
Hi, Ed, Anthony To help the others you should be able. Without the oxygen mask, you could not help. Extrem: only an oxygen mask. Well, probably I will renounce to it on behalf of anyone that is in my heart ( (yes, attachement. But compassion is also attachement, as I understand) Any listizen have read Alfred Van Vogt books on Non-A worlds? He said a thing that I find relevant: the word is not the thing, although many (myslef included) think in terms of words, not things. You should trascend words. I equal it to trascend duality. Disclaimer: alfred got blind because he tried to cure his miopy looking at sun, as per a something that erases all dismissing mentions to it in internet prayed. With best wishes Lluís - Original Message - From: Anthony Wu To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book ED, You say: Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone? My suggestion: fly to Dharamsala and ask Dalai Lama. (It is an essential mahayana teaching that you should help others before helping yourself.) Anthony --- On Thu, 25/11/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 9:46 PM Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone? A mother who really cares for her child will put on her own oxygen mask first. On the other hand, The life of an enlightened being is like the shadow of a bird on water. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: Bill, You got it wrong. Bodhisatvas advise you put the oxygen mask on other people before you have it on yourself. You have not answer whether you don't think preventing turmoil is necessary. Anthony
Re: [Zen] Thanks for an engaging listserv!
Hi, Chris I am used to 4 or a multiple of for directions of wind. 10? May you be so kind to explain which ones to an ignorant? With best wishes Lluís - Original Message - From: ChrisAustinLane To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 10:38 PM Subject: [Zen] Thanks for an engaging listserv! I really enjoy interacting with the zen forum. It is entertaining and educational (in the old sense, to be led out of myself). I bow to the ten directions in gratitude. May the winds of this day find all of you well! Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone
Re: [Zen] New Member
Chris, You are saying babies are good zen practitioners. As Jodi said, dogs are as well. Anthony --- On Thu, 25/11/10, ChrisAustinLane ch...@austin-lane.net wrote: From: ChrisAustinLane ch...@austin-lane.net Subject: Re: [Zen] New Member To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 11:11 PM Babies do not split life into self and other. Also they do not get distracted by abstract worries. They are fully present in the moment. They are not much concerned with stuff outside of their own internal needs, but that is appropriate. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone On Nov 24, 2010, at 17:33, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: Lana, The way in which babies normally and naturally behave is to be obsessed with 'I/me/mine' (it's ego), with no regard whatsoever for the needs of its mother or anyone else - and without which attitude it would not survive. In short, if babies had no egos, the only babies who survived for more than a few days would be 'buddhas' - and the population of human buddhas on this earth would be nil. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Lana M. Gibbons lana.m.gibb...@... wrote: No, Thank You. I already have much of the infant's mentality, the lack of duality, the awareness, the no-mind - to discard all of what I have learned so far would be to discard my true self. The typical five year old has many concepts and ideas, they are possessive, materialistic, extreme in their sense of duality, some even expect others to serve them - that is nothing I strive towards being. If all children naturally developed as Buddhas, there would be no need for Buddhism to exist. -Lana
Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book
Llius, It is impossible to transcend words, unless you wanted to go lower than my IQ. Anthony --- On Fri, 26/11/10, Lluís Mendieta lme...@intermail.es wrote: From: Lluís Mendieta lme...@intermail.es Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 26 November, 2010, 5:39 AM Hi, Ed, Anthony To help the others you should be able. Without the oxygen mask, you could not help. Extrem: only an oxygen mask. Well, probably I will renounce to it on behalf of anyone that is in my heart ( (yes, attachement. But compassion is also attachement, as I understand) Any listizen have read Alfred Van Vogt books on Non-A worlds? He said a thing that I find relevant: the word is not the thing, although many (myslef included) think in terms of words, not things. You should trascend words. I equal it to trascend duality. Disclaimer: alfred got blind because he tried to cure his miopy looking at sun, as per a something that erases all dismissing mentions to it in internet prayed. With best wishes Lluís - Original Message - From: Anthony Wu To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 10:16 PM Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book ED, You say: Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone? My suggestion: fly to Dharamsala and ask Dalai Lama. (It is an essential mahayana teaching that you should help others before helping yourself.) Anthony --- On Thu, 25/11/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Amazon book To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 25 November, 2010, 9:46 PM Of what use is a dead bodhisattva to anyone? A mother who really cares for her child will put on her own oxygen mask first. On the other hand, The life of an enlightened being is like the shadow of a bird on water. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: Bill, You got it wrong. Bodhisatvas advise you put the oxygen mask on other people before you have it on yourself. You have not answer whether you don't think preventing turmoil is necessary. Anthony
Re: [Zen] Thanks for an engaging listserv!
I was mixing metaphors there. 10 directions is traditional in zen sutras for all the world. (north, south, east, west, ne, se, nw, sw up and d I am at a beach along California highway 1, a windy beautiful place. The winds of the world flow all along without discrimination, and sending thanks from this windy brisk day to all you all over the world it seemed an appropriate image. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lanem Sent from a cell phone On Nov 25, 2010, at 13:42, Lluís Mendieta lme...@intermail.es wrote: Hi, Chris I am used to 4 or a multiple of for directions of wind. 10? May you be so kind to explain which ones to an ignorant? With best wishes Lluís - Original Message - From: ChrisAustinLane To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 10:38 PM Subject: [Zen] Thanks for an engaging listserv! I really enjoy interacting with the zen forum. It is entertaining and educational (in the old sense, to be led out of myself). I bow to the ten directions in gratitude. May the winds of this day find all of you well! Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone
Re: [Zen] Thanks for an engaging listserv!
Thanks, Chris I did not consider up and down... Anthony, you see, very low IQ... :-) With best wishes Lluís - Original Message - From: ChrisAustinLane To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Cc: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 26, 2010 2:37 AM Subject: Re: [Zen] Thanks for an engaging listserv! I was mixing metaphors there. 10 directions is traditional in zen sutras for all the world. (north, south, east, west, ne, se, nw, sw up and d I am at a beach along California highway 1, a windy beautiful place. The winds of the world flow all along without discrimination, and sending thanks from this windy brisk day to all you all over the world it seemed an appropriate image. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lanem Sent from a cell phone On Nov 25, 2010, at 13:42, Lluís Mendieta lme...@intermail.es wrote: Hi, Chris I am used to 4 or a multiple of for directions of wind. 10? May you be so kind to explain which ones to an ignorant? With best wishes Lluís - Original Message - From: ChrisAustinLane To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 10:38 PM Subject: [Zen] Thanks for an engaging listserv! I really enjoy interacting with the zen forum. It is entertaining and educational (in the old sense, to be led out of myself). I bow to the ten directions in gratitude. May the winds of this day find all of you well! Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone
