Jo Rose I can sort of understand what you're saying about the Tao
thing, but I'm still floundering
That is your monkey-mind. Stop monkeying around. Then again, you might
be a man. That is like a dirty monkey-mind.
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book
, 2008 6:58:05
Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality
Hi Mike again,
Yes San Sebastian is a very pretty elegant city. Sorry you
couldn't
translate the page. Just to let you know, I have a google bar for
translation in the internet. You can download it if you wish.
Though, it can only be used
extent Anthony, btw
--- On Wed, 10/15/08, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 12:27 PM
Mike,
We don't. Even a zen master still places one foot in front
Edgar,
I asked you if your concept of 'self' was real or an illusion.
You answered:
BTW to answer your question I have no concept of self.
If I had one it would be an illusion, though a consistent one for sure!
I find that a queer response, or at an unexpected one. First of all you
seem to
, 2008 9:00 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality, perception, reality, consciousness, etc, etc
Bill,
Strange, I thought you believed everything was illusion? Now I hear you say
there is a whole object world out there which is not illusion which includes
eggplants, yet
) is an
illusion.
Is your concept of 'self' real or an illusion?
...Bill!
From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf
Of Edgar Owen
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 12:59 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality, perception, reality, consciousness,
etc
Why Great Minds Can't Grasp Consciousness
By Ker Than, LiveScience Staff Writer
http://www.livescience.com/health/050808_human_consciousness.html
At a physics meeting last October, Nobel laureate David Gross outlined
25 questions in science that he thought physics might help answer.
Nestled
misrepresented anyone's argument.
Mike.
- Original Message
From: Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 15:19:42
Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality
Hi Mike again;
You go beyond rules through the energy of mindfulness which
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 15:19:42
Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality
Hi Mike again;
You go beyond rules through the energy of mindfulness which will
lead you to the realization of interbeing. Anchoring the mind in the
present moment is the key
: [Zen] Causality, perception, reality, consciousness, etc, etc
There was a monk who specialized in the buddhist precepts, and had
kept to them all his life. Once when he was walking at night, he
stepped on something. It made a squishing sound, and he thought he had
stepped on an egg-bearing frog
Bill,
Your extension can be included in the zen literature.
Regards,
Anthony
--- On Wed, 15/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Zen] Causality, perception, reality, consciousness, etc, etc
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Hi Bill,
I have no essential disagreement with your statements below as you do
seem to agree that you find it useful to follow the rules of
causality when dealing with other people. Thus you do agree that
those rules govern the realm of illusion, which of course is proven
by your many
Margie (and Bill),
What nonsense! That experience suggests there is an objective world
(the eggplant) and that the cognitive representation of that world is
illusion. Only if the monk went back again later and it wasn't an
eggplant but a squashed frog and kept changing every time he looked
Anthony Wu There is a flaw in the story. The Buddhist monk should
read Jainist monk. Stepping on a frog unwittingly is not considered as
breaking a buddhist precept
Get your story straight! You sound like a real faker! First you fake
your satori, now you fake a story, what next? fake orgasms?
Edgar,
Brilliant! How can one argue with that? Everyone may have their own
perception of reality. That perception itself is the illusion. I
think you have really topped off your arguement. I have to say
though, I was preparing a post very similar to this, you just beat
me to the punch!
Hi Chris,
I'm essentially in agreement with your post and thanks for letting us
know you do find the discussion on topic.
The world of phenomena is consistently causal - at least for sane
people. But we do ultimately have to realize that that world is
illusory in the sense that it is a
Chris,
Glad to hear we are of one mind!
Best,
Edgar
On Oct 15, 2008, at 3:47 PM, cid830 wrote:
Edgar,
Brilliant! How can one argue with that? Everyone may have their own
perception of reality. That perception itself is the illusion. I
think you have really topped off your arguement. I have
in Tibetan Buddhism, in the
beginning, you 'visualize' wrathful deities, eventually, they become as real as
you can face and not be scared to death. C'est la zen.
Regards,
Anthony
--- On Thu, 16/10/08, Karin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Karin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality
: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 21:27:58
Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality
Mike,
We don't. Even a zen master still places one foot in front of the other. He
just realizes he's treading on nonexistence. Thus the energy rushes in through
the soles of his feet.
If I remember correctly you are the karate man
Hi Edgar,
My comment is written below:
What nonsense! That experience suggests there is an
objective world (the eggplant) and that the cognitive representation of
that world is illusion. Only if the monk went back again later and it
wasn't an eggplant but a squashed frog and kept changing every
Hi Edgar,
Good to see you've finally come around to my way of thinking then :)
Mike.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 16 October, 2008 9:21:41
Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality
Hi Mike,
That sounds like what I just said
Hi Edgar,
I've been saying it since I began posting here.. 5 years ago!
Mike
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 16 October, 2008 10:33:25
Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality
Yes, but I said it before you did!
:-)
Edgar
] On Behalf
Of Edgar Owen
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 8:32 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality
Bill,
I'm in general agreement close enough to continue. I agree with you that in
some sense both the hammer smashing your toe and the pain in your toe
Edgar,
My responses are embedded below:
Maybe you say they are illusory, but you still follow and live according
to the rules of causality 24/7 and have been all your life, except perhaps
when sitting in zazen. Why is that if they aren't valid rules?
Events are illusory. Relationships between
Hi Edgar,
Simple question: if there are rules - how do we go beyond them?
Mike.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 8:03:44
Subject: Re: [Zen] Causality
Bill,
Maybe you say they are illusory, but you
Bill,
I'm in general agreement close enough to continue. I agree with you
that in some sense both the hammer smashing your toe and the pain in
your toe are illusions, but my point is that they are consistently
related. One follows inevitably upon the other in all normal
circumstances.
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