[Zen] Re: Zen Whore

2008-09-03 Thread Vince
Congratulations in overcoming your addictionI know how difficult that can be... --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jeni Jeni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess this is the group for me. I worked my way through law school as a stripper, and there were times that I did a lot more. The joke

Re: [Zen] Sick of Flaming

2008-09-03 Thread Edgar Owen
Bill, The other solution is to keep it open but remove gross offenders. Edgar On Sep 2, 2008, at 8:51 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cynthia, The only thing that can be done to stop the flaming is to turn this forum into a fully moderated forum in which the moderator - Al - reads and

Re: [Zen] Sick of Flaming

2008-09-03 Thread Fitness63
What is a gross offender? Who decides? Is this Mob Rule? What if the grossest offender needs the most help? Are we to shut the doors on that person? Is this enlightenment only for the polite and politically correct? Does the black sheep have no shepherd? - Original Message -

Re: [Zen] Test of Character

2008-09-03 Thread Fitness63
From: BillSmart@I used an example Catholic Hail Mary's, but it would, as you point out, eventually apply to anything repeated over and over and over and over... I bought a rosary and did the whole thing. I thought it was only about 33 prayers but it was closer to 70. I forget the exact number

Re: [Zen] Sick of Flaming

2008-09-03 Thread Fitness63
覺妙精明 Every incident, encounter, formation and phenomenon in our lives are the result of some causes, and each cause are often caused by generations of causes. It is our purpose, as Chan practitioners, to satisfy/consummate/resolve/ferry each one, such that this karma does not propagate. This

Re: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-03 Thread Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
Hi Al, I don't know whether the "other guy" you were talking about is Donald Hwong.  I am Donald Hwong.  I switched my email to my Dharma Name, JMJM.  A dharma name is a name given by my teacher as a recognition for the world of dharma.  We have approximately 50 people with dharma names

Re: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-03 Thread Edgar Owen
Donald, I don't think Zen pays much attention to karma. Zen certainly doesn't accept reincarnation which is how karma is typically transmitted according to traditional Buddhist thought. Zen is more about dealing with the present however it may appear. Nor does Zen posit any after death

Re: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-03 Thread Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
Edgar,  Thank you for the confirmation.  I have to leave now.  Will address this issue deeper when I have more time.  It is most important.  In short Zen may have lost a major part of Chan in Japan.  JM. Edgar Owen wrote: Donald, I don't think Zen pays much attention to

Re: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-03 Thread Fitness63
- 覺妙精明In short Zen may have lost a major part of Chan in Japan. JM. Or maybe Edgar has no idea what he is talking about? Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To

Re: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-03 Thread Fitness63
- 覺妙精明 I don't know whether the other guy you were talking about is Donald Hwong. Are you the guy from Europe who looks Scandinavian and has a goatee? Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it

Re: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-03 Thread Fitness63
覺妙精明 Without the correct understanding of karma and cause and effect, and the proper practice to witness it, there is no way to rid of the karma. It seems to me, after reading off/online for about 7-8 years, Zen differs from Chan in the fact Zen has no spiritual power. It is just a mental

Re: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-03 Thread Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
Hi Al,  I don't seem to understand your comment on what I wrote.  I don't find them relate to each other.  Can you explain?  Thanks, JM i.e. exercise? feel better? evil? happy?  Do use any strong words you prefer.   It is okay.. Fitness63 wrote: 覺妙精明 Without the correct

Re: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-03 Thread Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
Hi Al, on second thought, perhaps I should be more clearer on what I was trying to say. I suspect that Zen is just a mental balancing excercise without spirituality. Well? If you don't agree, then what is Zen. All these years, you have always commented on others' post and hardly took any

Re: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-03 Thread Fitness63
From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - I don't seem to understand your comment on what I wrote. I don't find them relate to each other. OK. You say Chan is about karma and liberation? I agree. I think that HAPPY PEOPLE ZEN is what is now being taught in many places in America. It is NO KARMA, just HAPPY

Re: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-03 Thread Fitness63
From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - I suspect that Zen is just a mental balancing excercise without spirituality. I agree that the New Age Zen of today is like that. Well? If you don't agree, then what is Zen. When I was younger, the books that I read seemed to point to the issue of karma and

Re: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-03 Thread Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
Hi Al,  I would not say that HPZ is NOT Chan, but a subset of Chan.  Besides, we use the term Content instead of Happy in Chan It is not my position nor mission to academically compare Zen and Chan. This road serves no purpose. I will however explain what Chan is if the readers are

Re: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-03 Thread Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
Aha, then we are on the same page. I have some sessions to enter today. When I have time, I will try to paint a clearer picture. Thanks, JM. Fitness63 wrote: From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - I suspect that Zen is just a mental balancing excercise without spirituality. I agree that the New Age

[Zen] Zen Whore

2008-09-03 Thread Jeni Jeni
Vince wrote: Congratulations in overcoming your addictionI know how difficult that can be... Are you in Recovery? I have been going to NA for the past six years and I found NA and zazen have made a big difference in my life. Current Book Discussion: