Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Jody, That's why they say to read the Bilble to find out what people were doing wring back then, and that applies equally well to believers today. It's the good people that don't need god or religion in the first place to try to keep them from doing bad. :-) Edgar On Oct 4, 2008, at

Re: [Zen] --------@

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Good Morning Bill, You're welcome :-) Some of the things you said in your posts were part of the inspiration. Words can be wonderful. Thank You, Margie (roloro1557) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Margie, Now this is really excellent! This is your proper reply

[Zen] Useless Words (Was Re: 2009 Best Way Pledge)

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Edgar- And here is my response to your response:

[Zen] Re: Zen and Accountability

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Hi Chris :-) Glad you liked my post. Here is one of my favorite zen stories about morality: A student was caught stealing and his fellows asked master Bankei to expel him from the community. The master ignored the request, but the student stole again. The others drew up a petition demanding his

[Zen] Re: women zen

2008-10-05 Thread Mayka
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe sex is not personal. Dogs do it, horses do it, bugs do it. Most things that are alive do it in some way or other. It is no more personal than eating or breathing or sleeping. Like eating or breathing or

Re: [Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Hi Margie, If you do get fat be careful, people here will be wanting to rub your tummy! :-) Edgar On Oct 4, 2008, at 4:47 PM, roloro1557 wrote: Hi Edgar- Like I said to Bill, if you all keep up like this I'm going to get very fat! Thank you! Margie (roloro1557) --- In

Re: [Zen] --------@

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Margie, Likewise, it's always great to suddenly meet the Buddha face to face! Though for me more likely on a mountain path, my Haight Ashbury alley days are over. Edgar On Oct 4, 2008, at 5:02 PM, roloro1557 wrote: Edgar- Cousins or siblings or fellow aliens, we remind me of the story

Re: [Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Thanks Margie, I have to admit I had some sudden little Satori flashes when I read your poem. Maybe I'll have to rethink my position against 'transmission'. :-) Edgar On Oct 4, 2008, at 4:38 PM, roloro1557 wrote: Hi Edgar- Ah, marvelous poem. And your point that most people think

Re: [Zen] Useless Words (Was Re: 2009 Best Way Pledge)

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Margie, And here is my haiku in response: Nothing on this line Nothing in this one either Nothing or something? :-) Edgar On Oct 5, 2008, at 6:27 AM, roloro1557 wrote: Edgar- And here is my response to your response: --

[Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Ah, but Edgar, your original position is correct. There is nothing to transmit and no one to transmit it. Don't look at my finger, look at the moon. :-) Margie (roloro1557) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Margie, I have to admit I had some sudden

[Zen] Re: women zen

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Good Morning Mayka- It's nice to meet you and thank you for your post. What happens when horses have sex? Or dogs? Or bugs? They get baby horses or dogs or bugs. What I was trying to say is that if we take away everything else we know about sex, everything else we feel about sex, if we pare it

[Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Hi Edgar- --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you do get fat be careful, people here will be wanting to rub your tummy! Yes, and if they do they'll get lots and lots of lucky electrons! Margie (roloro1557)

Re: [Zen] --------@

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Good Morning Edgar, --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Margie, Likewise, it's always great to suddenly meet the Buddha face to face! ^ Uh-Oh, you know what's next don't you?! big grin

[Zen] Re: women zen

2008-10-05 Thread Mayka
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If people want to express emotion through sexuality, then of course that is what they should do. However, and I don't mean to sound vulgar or crass, I think it's important to understand what sex is at it's most basic level.

Re: [Zen] Re: Zen and Accountability

2008-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Hi Margie,   This is a very moving story. I hope things will always work out like that. But what if they don't? Please note I am not contradicting you. Please don't be offended. My question is what if the 'bad' student keeps stealing with no repentence. Did you read Mark Twain about a doctor

Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Dear both,   Are good people always good? What makes them good? Their genes? Or their karma, if you still believe it?   Regards, Anthony --- On Sun, 5/10/08, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

[Zen] Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
I would like to come back to Al's profound question. The thread he started is getting long and branching out. Can you simply say 'this is it?' How do you react to pain? A famous zen master Daisetsu Suzuki went through a lot of suffering in his last days. I am scared to think about that. If he

[Zen] Re: Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Mayka
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ' How do you react to pain? A famous zen master Daisetsu Suzuki went through a lot of suffering in his last days. I am scared to think about that. If he cannot avoid suffering, how can I? How about you all? Are you sure you

Re: [Zen] Re: women zen

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Margie, That of course is not the Tantric view of sex, or that of people like Wilhelm Reich (see his book 'The Function of the Orgasm') which posit that aside from its basic reproductive function that sex exists, or should be used, as an aid to enlightenment. It is the most easy and

Re: [Zen] Re: 2009 Best Way Pledge

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Hi Bill, I am curious as to why Thailand though? Are you working there or retired? Or did you just get a great deal on a long term sex tour? :-) Guess I better duck now! Best, Edgar On Oct 4, 2008, at 6:54 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Edgar, I am living in

Re: [Zen] --------@

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
No I don't know what's next, but I hope you are going to tell me! Hope you haven't read that one about if you meet the Buddha, kill him! Edgar On Oct 5, 2008, at 7:32 AM, roloro1557 wrote: Good Morning Edgar, --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Margie,

Re: [Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Margie, I'll try, if I can take my eyes off of the rest of you! :-) Edgar On Oct 5, 2008, at 8:05 AM, roloro1557 wrote: Ah, but Edgar, your original position is correct. There is nothing to transmit and no one to transmit it. Don't look at my finger, look at the moon. :-) Margie

Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Jody W. Ianuzzi
Anthony, I have never believed in God but the reason why I can never steal or lie is because I would know. I have an example that just happened. I recently bought three items at a major department store. On the way out of the store I felt the amount I paid was too low for the items I

Re: [Zen] Re: Zen and Accountability

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Anthony and Margie, Reminds me of the drowning dog I pulled out of a canal in Japan on Buddha's birthday. First thing it did was bit me! But dogs like humans normally only bite when scared or after having been abused. Remedy the cause and the behavior will most likely change. Edgar

Re: [Zen] Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Anthony, There are two kinds of suffering. Most so called suffering, e.g. most emotional 'pain', is illusory as it simply depends on how one reacts to something and that can be let go of. Physical pain of say cancer is different, it can't be avoided. But one must remember you are not

Re: [Zen] Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
Hi Anthony, This is an important question. Bill and Edgar both have stated many times that only the present moment is real. A direct experience is the only thing matters. I am not sure either of them will continue to post regarding this issue. And I agree with them. Since you still want

Re: [Zen] Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
JM and Anthony, If I can add just one more point. Most of Anthony's current 'suffering' seems to be from worrying about something which hasn't yet happened and may never happen to him. As JM points out, it is certainly not real here now. This suffering from worrying about a nonexistent

Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Karin
Anthony Wu I agree you don't have to be religious to be ethical. I know many atheist who are good people. But I also know many who are bad. Especially when they have power, which they use in a wrong way. What stops you from doing something 'bad'? The #1 characteristic of most Atheists is

Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Karin
Anthony Wu I agree you don't have to be religious to be ethical. I know many atheist who are good people. But I also know many who are bad. Especially when they have power, which they use in a wrong way. What stops you from doing something 'bad'? The #1 characteristic of most Atheists is

Re: [Zen] Re: Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
--- On Sun, 5/10/08, Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Come back to Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 5 October, 2008, 9:38 PM --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ' How do you react to

Re: [Zen] Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Hi JM,   I would envy anybody facing pain with magnonimity and would like to do the same, but am not sure I can.   By the way, the real body of Huineng was burnt by our lovely Red Guards during the Cultural Revolution. What you see now is a replica.   Regards, Anthony --- On Sun, 5/10/08, Jue

Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Hi Karin,   I share your point of view, except your comment on men. If I was an umpire, I would give a draw between wicked men and women.   Regards, Anthony --- On Mon, 6/10/08, Karin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Karin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen To:

Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Karin
Anthony Wu I agree you don't have to be religious to be ethical. I know many atheist who are good people. But I also know many who are bad. Especially when they have power, which they use in a wrong way. What stops you from doing something 'bad'? The #1 characteristic of most Atheists is

Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Jody W. Ianuzzi
H, I am an atheist and I don't think of myself as God. JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:

[Zen] Re: Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Hello Anthony, I think I react to pain the way most people do, I don't like it! I try to avoid it! No one can avoid suffering. I am terrified of death! No one can avoid death. Why put a lot of energy into something that can't be stopped? For me the way to react to suffering is to do what we can

[Zen] Re: Zen and Accountability

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Margie, This is a very moving story. I hope things will always work ^^^ out like that. But what if they don't? ^

[Zen] Re: Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Mayka
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is the question: What comes after the process of death? You cannot say there will be nothing, or just like sleep without a dream. I would thank God for that. But nde indicates there are a lot coming after death. So

Re: [Zen] Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Anthony, I wouldn't worry about suffering after death. Just let go of worry suffering right now. In the very unlikely event you find you are still suffering after death then send me another email :-) Edgar On Oct 5, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Anthony Wu wrote: Hi Edgar, I can only

[Zen] Re: women zen

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Hi Mayka, Thank you for your post. You haven't offended me at all. To quote Shakespeare out of context, however; The rest is silence. Hope to talk with you again soon, Margie (roloro1557) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You haven't offended me. I hope I

Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Jody, You just haven't looked in the mirror carefully enough! :-) Edgar On Oct 5, 2008, at 4:45 PM, Jody W. Ianuzzi wrote: H, I am an atheist and I don't think of myself as God. JODY

Re: [Zen] Re: Zen and Accountability

2008-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Margie,   Thanks for your 'golden silence'. At least I can live in a fool's paradise for the moment.   Regards, Anthony --- On Mon, 6/10/08, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Zen and Accountability To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date:

Re: [Zen] Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Edgar,   I would like to send you an email after I die, but Mahakasyapa says it is unlikely you will receive one. If I am enjoying life in heaven, I would not care about the earth because all things there are dirty, not worth even thinking about. If I am suffering in hell, I will not be capable

[Zen] Re: Zen and Accountability

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Anthony- You're welcome. Do you want to live in a fools' paradise? Margie (roloro1557) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Margie, Thanks for your 'golden silence'. At least I can live in a fool's paradise for the moment. Regards, Anthony

Re: [Zen] Re: Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Hi Mayka,   Suffering after death, if there is any, is part of 'not dying in peace'. If there is none, thank god.   Regards, Anthony --- On Mon, 6/10/08, Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Come back to Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

Re: [Zen] Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anthony, I wouldn't worry about suffering after death. Just let go of worry suffering right now. In the very unlikely event you find you are ^^ still

Re: [Zen] Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Hi Anthony, Just punch old Mahakasyapa in the nose when you meet him. He will disappear along with the rest of them. All those Bardo characters are illusion. Read the Tibetan Book of the Dead for instructions on what to do after you die. Then be prepared for something totally different.

[Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Hi Edgar- --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No I don't know what's next, but I hope you are going to tell me! Hope you haven't read that one about if you meet the Buddha, kill ^ him! ^^^

[Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Poor Edgar! You must have been a hermit for a very long time if you can't take your eyes off me. I'm 25 pounds overweight, hair going gray, liver spots on my hands, wrinkles, dark circles under my eyes...etc. Margie (roloro1557) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Margie, Yea, but how does that work when two Buddhas meet? Edgar On Oct 5, 2008, at 7:28 PM, roloro1557 wrote: Hi Edgar- --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No I don't know what's next, but I hope you are going to tell me! Hope you haven't read that

Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Jody W. Ianuzzi
Hello Edgar, Ahhh, but I literally see an empty mirror. GRIN JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:

Re: [Zen] Re: Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Jody W. Ianuzzi
I will live forever because when I am alive I will be alive and when I am dead I won't know it. JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the

Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Edgar Owen
Jody, Well, you are either a vampire or a Buddha. Has the sun gone down there yet? Edgar On Oct 5, 2008, at 7:57 PM, Jody W. Ianuzzi wrote: Hello Edgar, Ahhh, but I literally see an empty mirror. GRIN JODY

[Zen] Re: Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Mayka
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayka,   Suffering after death, if there is any, is part of 'not dying in peace'. If there is none, thank god. Hi Anthony; Let's not worry too muich about if there is suffering or not after death. Let's do worry

[Zen] Re: Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Mayka
Sorry I have had an error in this sentece It has also helped me to live in a deeper way my life and BE A LITTLE BE FRIVOLOUS. I meant A LITTLE BIT LESS FRIVOLOUS Mayka --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@ wrote:

[Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
What enlightened countenance...who...where...huh??? big grin As to my physical charms, I don't know where they went, but they are definitely gone. This is one thing I was never very attached to in the first place though, so it's never been a big deal for me anyway. Margie (roloro1557) --- In

[Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-05 Thread roloro1557
Trade jokes and verbal jousting, I would think...or find a roadhouse and have a pot of tea together, get pretty little Asian ladies to give us foot massages. Something like that. :-) Margie (roloro1557) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Margie, Yea, but

RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread BillSmart
Jody, So you don't think of yourself as a man or woman either? ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jody W. Ianuzzi Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 6:58 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen Hello Edgar, Ahhh, but I

RE: [Zen] Re: Zen and Accountability

2008-10-05 Thread BillSmart
Anthony, All morals and ethics are PERSONAL. They apply ONLY TO YOU. You cannot project them on others. So, when in the post below you ask, 'But what if they don't [know right from wrong]?', and when you also cite an example of a doctor who tries to help dogs and ends up getting bitten, you

Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread Jody W. Ianuzzi
Hi Bill, What I meant by my 'empty mirror comment is that I don't see myself when I look in the mirrorbecause I can't SEE. GRIN JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo!

Re: [Zen] --------@

2008-10-05 Thread mike brown
Hi Margie, I'm glad you liked them :) I was hoping more people would also write a commentary to your poem rather than just say I like it - I think only Edgar commented. I remember that about 10 months ago a number of us here had a discussion about haiku and the merits of poetry - it was a