Hi Mike and Everyone!
If everytime one has a dissapointment in any established religious institution
whether that dissapointment was in Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Zen
Buddhist, etc, etc institutions: and afterwards acts as a destructor towards
the institution from which
Hello
Mel is my name. I'm new to the group. I follow the Quaker practise of silent
contemplation, which is not too far from what they refer to in Soto Zen as zazen
I study the bible, but I also meditate in silence
in peace
Mel
gunnar19632...@yahoo.com.au
Hi Anthony,
If you research, you shall find there were two cases of heart
transplant, as far as I read, changed the personality of the recipient
to that of the donor. :-)
But the statement above is a scientific one, which has no value in
Chan. Just like your statement.
In Chan,
Hi Mayka,
Welcome to the real world of humans, whose intrinsic non-Buddha nature
(as it has evolved) is self-interest.
;-) --ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote:
Hi Mike and Everyone!
If everytime one has a dissapointment in any established
TNH = Thich Nhat Hanh
--- On Mon, 4/10/10, DP wookielife...@yahoo.ca wrote:
From: DP wookielife...@yahoo.ca
Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, 4 October, 2010, 15:31
I'm sorry, but what is TNH?
--- In
DP,
I like the way you wrote that the Moderator who didn't believe Jesus was the
Son
of God was the former Moderator. : )
Mike
[EO] Nonsense. Zen is not anti anything except perhaps illusion.
Edgar,
I currently favor your understanding (subject to further thought and
discussion.)
And, how does one determine when one is under an illusion/delusion and
when not?
--ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen
DP,
You wrote: And... you just lost the thread. Godwin's Law applies equally to
neo-Nazis as to Hitler.
It would be more like rejecting anything German (or, say, rejecting socialism
because of the name National Socialists.)
Firstly, Godwin's Law refers to the inevitable reference to Hitler
ED,
Determining what is illusion is not a simple matter that can be put in just a
few words. Here's my article on the nature of mind, reality and illusion.
http://edgarlowen.info/mind.shtml
Edgar
On Oct 4, 2010, at 11:16 AM, ED wrote:
[EO] Nonsense. Zen is not anti anything except
...because his 3-year term ended. Not, as you seem to be implying, because he
was forced out.
I'm trying to be civil here, but you really do seem to be jumping to your own
conclusions without evidence, and actively ignoring contrary evidence. This is
exactly my frustration with people who seem
DP,
What concern is that of yours? (Double standards are intrinsic to the
non-Buddha nature of all humans.) Are you demanding that these people
change their ways for you to be happy?
--ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, DP wookielife...@... wrote:
I guess you're right. However, I
Mayka,
It goes way beyond mere disappontment in any established religious
institutions. I really don't understand why religion gets a free pass from
criticism. We attack the oil industry for polluting the environment;
goverment/politicians for corruption and other socially unacceptable
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown uerusub...@... wrote:
DP,
You wrote: And... you just lost the thread. Godwin's Law applies equally to
neo-Nazis as to Hitler.
It would be more like rejecting anything German (or, say, rejecting
socialism
because of the name National
No, I'm not demanding anything. I just find it troubling that when one place in
the forum I was addressing was relegated to religious and spiritual discussions
(which I sincerely believe need to be a part of solving the problems we're
facing as a planet), any possible discussion of moderate or
DP,
Whoa! Steady on there, Tiger. You may have missed I put a smiley face
(something
I'm usually loathe to do) at the end of the sentence to indicate nothing snidey
was intended. Having said that, if your previous Moderator and your church
don't
believe that Jesus was the son of God, then
Hi ED:
How are you keeping?. I don't fully understand your statement. Can you
elaborate a little bit more?.
I know I tend to use a lot the And this is to point it out that
that specific experience is personal to myself and anyone else. It's an I
free from I!. Still a casual zen
But it's a scattershot technique being employed against all religion.
Religious people can point out that they support the theory of evolution and
that they condemn the cover-up by the Catholic Church and they still get all
religions are equally corrupt and wrong. It would be like saying all
Evidently not, considering that my Church survived that, and is considered the
mainline Christian church in Canada. Interestingly, some denominations rebelled
and made affirmative statements about Jesus' divinity, which I would point out
is an example of church members actively defying the
DP,
I wrote: Moreover, I am ignorant of what it is to be a neo-nazis, but have no
trouble rejecting their beliefs as not just harmful, but wrong.
You wrote: You were essentially implying that religious belief was no
different
from being a neo-nazi. I'm sorry, but I do find that offensive.
My god, that is disingenuous...
Kristy specifically said that the people who are arguing probably don't have an
experience of faith and that this means I can't explain it to them.
You essentially said I don't have to be a Neo-Nazi to understand that it's
bad.
It doesn't take a paranoid
Hi Mike again:
I'm writing to your from the zen forum website. Some of the posting from the
zen fourm went missed out such as this one from you.
My previous post was pointing out about very aggresive and destructive
criticism. That kind of criticism in which one just shouts anger out to
DP,
Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you, huh.
Let me spell it out for you one more time. To paraphrase Kristy - she said
that
atheists are ignorant of faith and so don't understand the religious
perspective. I pointed out that 1) lots of atheists were once
IMO, religion is *not* poison, and in fact is quite *beneficial* to many
or most.
*Every* religion (and atheism too) has sub-groups and individuals who
use its teachings (or non-teachings) in a poisonous way.
For instance, I believe that the Canadian prime minister subscribes to
the beliefs of
DP:
Which Christian denomination are you from?. There are so many that it's
impossible to know them all.
Mayka
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, DP wookielife...@... wrote:
Evidently not, considering that my Church survived that, and is considered
the mainline Christian church in Canada.
Mike, shouldn't you be granting equal time to neo-zionazis? ;-)
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown uerusub...@... wrote:
DP,Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out
to get you, huh. Let me spell it out for you one more time. To
paraphrase Kristy - she
Thanks Mayka, reading you loud and clear! Just one thing. I think that
aggresive and destructive criticism can sometimes be a good thing. The recent
demonstrations in London against the Popes visit there spring to mind. Here is
the head of a religious organisation that systematically brushed
ED,
I'm an equal opportunity critic. I'm happy to throw them all into the same
basket : )
Mike
From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 1:25:12
Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in
ED,
... and you can also throw the feminazis in with them, too.
Mike
From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 1:25:12
Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.
Mike,
i'm sorry, but I don't even believe that is correct, unless you emphasize the
word *can*.
As well, by bringing in terrorists and child-molesters, you are trying to
indeed play on associations about *some* religious people. You are making
assertions and insinuations and then pleading ignorance
I am not a Catholic, nor am I a fan of the current pope, who was part of the
mechanations to put down Liberation Theology, one of the positive thing that
has come out of the Catholic Church. I feel no need to defend Ratzinger, so you
are indeed barking up the wrong tree.
Gosh, religious people
The United Church of Canada, a church formed by the merging of the Canadian
Methodist, Presbyterian and Congregationalist churches. Their numbers are
dwindiling due to an influx of evangelicals, but they are still considered to
be in the mainstream of Canadian Christianity.
It is not perfect,
Mike:
In spite of being by nature a very passionate character with strong
temperament, I don't agree with any violence method or in whatever way that is
showed. The same if that is verbal, physical or psycological. I have enough
hard work to tame myself to waste time and getting into
My own problems with Stephen Harper stem more from his propping up a polluting
and potentially Earth-threatening industry, which has much more to do with
worship of money than any religious beliefs. Although I admit he is a very
conservative Christian.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED
Hi Bill and Group
Bill, in a previous post to DP you said something about when one has a problem
with someone, it is never theirs it's always yours. This is something that I
have previously found VERY intruiging. I've investigated it recently in my own
life, to a greater or lesser degree. I
Gentlemen, :)
Wait~~ don't get me into this discussion, as it is now I who has lost the
thread. I was merely trying to point out to DP that debating on-line with
people who attack him or hurt his feelings seems pointless to me, and making a
different choice to disengage and move on might be
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, things_rose things_r...@... wrote:
Hi Bill and Group
Bill, in a previous post to DP you said something about when one has a
problem with someone, it is never theirs it's always yours.
This is something that I have previously found VERY intruiging. I've
Already done and continue to do that Ed, with varying degrees of *success*.
Wanted to hear how others have fared.
Rose
--- On Mon, 10/4/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote:
From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Zen] Re: 'Having a problem with somebody' - Bill, et al
To:
I hadn't read anything like that level of detail into Bills statement. It
seemed simple, and it *seems* simple. Just bloody difficult in practice.
I'll give you an example from my own life - which is messy and bitty, as life
sometimes is... My 15 year old daughter lives with her father in
How easy is to manipulate the ones who are asking to be manipulated because
of their need of depending upon someone else words and not as much by
acknowledging, facing, accepting and embracing what is in them. God, Buddha,
Jesus Heart is in each inhalation and each exhalation I do in
Mike,
I do not contradict you.
However, do you feel the same outrage toward Jews, Christians, the UK,
US, Israel, etc. for their horrible slaughters of native peoples?
http://www.counterpunch.org/blum10012010.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/blum10012010.html (Read if you choose
to; don't
Hi Rose!
Just to let you know that I'm sorry to hear about your sentimental and family
worries and the hard time you are having. Perhaps you may feel more released
if just sit down and breathe in awareness. Don't think about anything right
now. You need to stop the activities in the mind.
Rose,
You appear to have a complete understanding of the dynamics of the
situation. I too find it hard to control my anger on occasion. But my
hormone levels are lower due to age, so my emotional responses are
weaker. I say to myself: You do what you do and you get what you get.
Cest la vie!
My own personal frustration comes from people not willing to accept that
anything good can possibly come from religion. I don't feel that I need to
defend or answer for everything religion has done.
I apologize for bringing the subject here. What my real frustration was was due
to the fact
JMJM,
In keeping posting, you are not shutting up either. Make no mistake. You are
welcome to post. A heart transplant, just as a kidney transplant, or even a
blood transfusion, can change personality. But the main characteristics of the
persons remain unchanged before and after the
Mayka,
I am disappointed that you are disappointed with TNH. Though I know very little
about it, I believe, from what the little I have heard, that TNH is better than
many Christian establishments. But I may be wrong. Anyway, if you are fed up
with one thing, move on to another. Don't
Anthony,
I think that the 'heart' metaphorically connotes the sections of the
brain responsible for feelings.
--ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote:
JMJM, It is wrong that you associate thinking with the heart. The
brain plays the key role in thinking.
Mike,
I don't see the 'free pass'. You find Islam criticising Christianity, and vice
versa, and Christianity reviling Buddhism and vice versa. Many other instances.
The reason you are afraid to say something against Christianity is because you
live in a strong Christain influenced
Anthony:
I'm under the impression that Mike is not the type of person who is afraid to
speak up his mind when he has to. He is an strong man and not a mice. He
doesn't live upon anyone sayings but he mades from the sayings his own sayings
through the practice of zen = Direct experience with
ED,
I can agree if it just 'connotes'.
Anthony
--- On Tue, 5/10/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote:
From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Mind
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 5 October, 2010, 5:59 AM
Anthony,
I think that the 'heart' metaphorically
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Mike,
Do you mean feminists here? If so-- why? Do you honestly believe you can
generalize with such broad strokes ? (pun intended);) k
--- On Mon, 10/4/10, mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
From: mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote:
Edgar,
As usual I agree with some of what you say but not all.
The part I agree with is that zen is not anti anything. I say if
anything it's anti-attachments. I myself winced when I sent the post
affirming that zen is
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