[Zen] Re: Hello(from Australia)

2010-10-05 Thread maria818448
Hi Mel; Thanks for introducing yourself. Warm welcome to the group. Mayka --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, gunnar19632000 gunnar19632...@... wrote: Hello Mel is my name. I'm new to the group. I follow the Quaker practise of silent contemplation, which is not too far from what they

Re: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-05 Thread maria818448
Hi Chris; I never thought about: When you swim well, your intelligence is not separate from your action. I suppose I never thought about that because I'm not much of an inteligent person. But I'll try to pay attention how real is your statement. Thanks!. Mayka --- In

Re: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-05 Thread maria818448
Hello Chris again: It sounds good the openeness you're experiencing. I wouldn't say that is only zen what it changes the way a Christian new approaching but a summary of different experiences. And the key is always to keep an open mind. Allowing the heart to be manifested in all its non

RE: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread BillSmart
DP and Mike, I've seen faith and I think it's okay.Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of DP Sent: Monday, October 04, 2010 10:41 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-05 Thread BillSmart
Edgar and Ed, Determining what is illusion is a very simple matter, and can't be put into words at all. Just sit. Or if you don't know how, find a zendo somewhere near you and get some instruction, or even browse the internet. There are lots of sites that give instructions on how to do zazen.

Re: [Zen] Re: 'Having a problem with somebody' - Bill, et al

2010-10-05 Thread Rose P
Yes Ed, I'll go with that advice! I think my interest really is in the difference between a totally non-zen life, and a life that does incorporate some zen.   Rose --- On Mon, 10/4/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote: From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com Subject: [Zen] Re: 'Having a problem

RE: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread BillSmart
Kristy, The argument you present below is logical, therefore I have faith it will solve the problem here…Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kristy McClain Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 12:24 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:

Re: [Zen] Re: 'Having a problem with somebody' - Bill, et al

2010-10-05 Thread Rose P
That's brilliant advice Mayka. I do do that as much as I can. The point where I'm no longer able to do it though..that's what's interesting to me. Not that I actively seek that point out of course.   Rose --- On Mon, 10/4/10, Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com wrote: From: Maria Lopez

RE: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread BillSmart
Anthony, I’m disappointed you’re disappointed with Mayka for being disappointed with TNH….Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 4:32 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't

RE: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-05 Thread BillSmart
Chris, You’re using the word ‘intelligence’ differently in your post than I used in my post. I use the word ‘intelligence’ to imply cognition, the use of reason, the use of logic. The way you’re using it is almost the same as Buddha Nature. That’s not good or not bad – it’s just difference

RE: [Zen] 'Having a problem with somebody' - Bill, et al

2010-10-05 Thread BillSmart
Rose, When I said that, I didn't mean anything deep and significant. What I meant was, when you have a problem with [fill-in-the-blank], that's YOUR problem. You can blame it on the object of your unease, but most of the time you can't control the object, whether it be another person or a even

RE: [Zen] 'Having a problem with somebody' - Bill, et al

2010-10-05 Thread Rose P
Yes, yes I hear you totally. It's something I'm drawn to, this idea that the problem isn't the other persons. Certainly the other way of looking at things isn't helpful.   Rose --- On Tue, 10/5/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org

RE: [Zen] Hello(from Australia)

2010-10-05 Thread Daryl Gillespie
Welcome Gunnar, Another Aussie here. What a great thing to see. I will be looking forward to your posts as I also study the bible and meditate. I don’t preach or belong to any ‘çhurch’ (in fact its been a while since I said anything here), I normally

Re: [Zen] Re: 'Having a problem with somebody' - Bill, et al

2010-10-05 Thread Maria Lopez
Rose:   I exactly know what you mean.  I have moments like this in which I can't just sit down and staying there with what I have.  Even when I know that after the sitting down I will be feeling much better and in all the ways.  Instead of sitting down,  it seems as the non sitting down energy

Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-05 Thread Kristy McClain
Maria,   My name is Kristy.  Please use my correct name or don't address me at all.  k --- On Tue, 10/5/10, Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com wrote: From: Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com Subject: Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc. To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 5,

RE: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread Kristy McClain
*chuckles* to Bill...   --- On Tue, 10/5/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church. To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, October 5, 2010, 3:06

Re: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-05 Thread Kristy McClain
Edgar,   Sure but you both miss my point. My point is that you must use the intelligent mind to reach the point where things happen naturally via the whole being.   I could not possibly disagree more with you.  But, I do believe we each have  a right to find our own path.  I think you are worlds

Re: [Zen] Re: Unclear on what is mind

2010-10-05 Thread Kristy McClain
Bill,   Well, I am going to assume by this that you mean what we experience with our physical senses. (Eye, ear, smell, taste, touch).   So from that view, a Hellen Keller or an autistic child or  such cannot , by definition, practice zen as well as you?  Or are you saying that we each have a

Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-05 Thread Maria Lopez
An unexpected attachment reaction to an incorrect name written.  Which have let you blind to see the kindnest of my posting.  Oh well, never mind. --- On Tue, 5/10/10, Kristy McClain healthypl...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Kristy McClain healthypl...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God,

Re: [Zen] Re: 'Having a problem with somebody' - Bill, et al

2010-10-05 Thread Maria Lopez
Rose;   Here you go and you were doing all that already.  And you also start to have a more awakened senses which help you to see things before you couldn't see, hear noises that before you couldn't hear...that's it!.  Similar experience as yours.   My sister is doing resaonable well and at the

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread mike brown
DP, That post was addressed to Mayka so I don't know why you felt you were called upon on to defend the pope. Mike ps, you don't have to tell me about religious people disagreeing on things. It usually involves them killing each other about whose god is the most peaceful.

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread mike brown
Mayka, I agree with you in the most part about the use of agression but the problem is that sometimes assertive action is needed to highlight problem issues. That action may include rather loud demonstrations as witnessed in London during the pope's visit. I would never condone violence but

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread mike brown
Kristy, Thanks for the clarification. I would definitely agree with you that people of faith are guided by something other than facts ; )    Also, I don't think atheists try to disprove anything. I completely agree that faith exists - it's just based on bad evidence. Mike

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread mike brown
ED, Great article, but it's preaching to the converted in my case. I guess when you say slaughtered you mean the wanton killing of people for something other than pure survival and/or defence? Killing in the name of an ideology or belief is just pure madness and evil. And 'evilest of the

Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-05 Thread Kristy McClain
No Maria...   It is you with the attachment.  You have done this often before,   (and I believe it is deliberate, as I  pointed it out to you before.  You have attachment issues with me.  The truth is, I don't spend any time thinking about  you.  I don't know you and its difficult for me to

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread mike brown
Anthony, A couple of points. One religion criticising another religion is not the point I'm making about religion having a free pass. Take politics, for example. In the last presidential debate 4 candidates put up their hands to swear that they didn't believe in evolution. Was there a gasp of

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread mike brown
Thank you, Mayka. I'm most definitely one man and not mice (I think you meant the singular 'mouse')  : ) Mike  From: Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 7:58:08 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my

Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-05 Thread Maria Lopez
Be re-assure that I do not have any issue with you.  Nor I wrote incorrectly your name to cause you irritation.  I've lost some sight and sometimes also get distracted.  Sorry about the miss spelling of your name has caused you such a psycological disturbance.  Your saying here it comes as

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread mike brown
Kristy, Hmm, kinda. Most women I've met who claim to be 'feminists' seem to have a severe lack of humour. I can appreciate that that is only anecdotal evidence but it seems to be a consistent theme. Mike   From: Kristy McClain healthypl...@yahoo.com To:

Re: [Zen] Hello(from Australia)

2010-10-05 Thread mike brown
Whereabouts are you blokes from? I lived in Perth for 17 years so feel a real connection to Australia (I'm Welsh). My son is based in Darwin with 4 RAR. Good to see some Ockers here amongst all the septics ; ) Mike From: Daryl Gillespie

Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-05 Thread mike brown
Ladies... From: Kristy McClain healthypl...@yahoo.com To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, 5 October, 2010 22:16:12 Subject: Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.   No Maria... It is you with the attachment.  You have done this often before,   (and I believe

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread Maria Lopez
Mike:   There is a certain true in what you say about labelling assertion as an aggression.  It's something that is happening more and more. This what you're raising is actually a very good point.  This point was discussed in a group of friends while I was in Spain this last July.  We were

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread Kristy McClain
Hi Mike,   in all honesty, I was going to be supportive of feminism, but you caught me off guard with this.  I suspect you  have a good point, though I have always thought of myself as supporting women's choices and opportunities.  I actually have a great sense of  humor known by all who know

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread Maria Lopez
Yes Mike I meant mouse .  This is another word I always get wrong and tend to say mice instead of mouse. Thanks for the correction and not getting an offense.  Mayka --- On Tue, 5/10/10, mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: From: mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk Subject: Re: [Zen] Re:

Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-05 Thread Kristy McClain
Maria,   I appreciate your comments.  Thank you for telling  me  you have some visual problems.  Of course, I understand that. To clarify, it isn't that I selectively don't read your posts.. I'm just saying that sometimes I have problems following your point when I do.  Its likely a cultural

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread Kristy McClain
Maria,   Your comments here demonstrate that your earlier post to me apologizing were insincere.  Again, you choose not to mention me by name, which  is fine.  Maria-- you do have some issues  about me.  Your behavior is inappropriate, beit  attachment, or passive aggresive.   Your feelings 

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread maria818448
Sincerely, I don't deal well with paranoid people. And so simply let's leave each other alone. Is that ok?. Thank you. Mayka --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthypl...@... wrote: Maria,   Your comments here demonstrate that your earlier post to me apologizing were

[Zen] Re: edgar's mails

2010-10-05 Thread ChrisAustinLane
Edgar, For some reason your mails are coming to me garbled. For me, I have not been as able to notice when the point of action occurring naturally as much from intellectual activity as from zazen. Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone CM SPAM detection: spam References:

[Zen] illusion

2010-10-05 Thread Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
If I may jump in here about these important subject matter... DP asked an excellent question about the nature of illusion. Edgar answered as chi/tao manifested itself through varius forms of illusion. If I may elaborate further... In Chan, we don't use the term illusion. You may notice

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread DP
Not quite. It was not the last presidential debate, it was a debate among those competing for the Republican candidacy. And no, nothing did not happen; they were widely ridiculed in the media, and none of them won the candidacy in the end. So no, they most certainly did not get a free pass. (In

Re: [Zen] illusion

2010-10-05 Thread ED
Edgar, From a zen perspective is not all this conceptualization unnecessary, (like 'adding legs to a snake'?) --Ed --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgaro...@... wrote: JMJM, An excellent description of the impermanent nature of forms and thus their illusory nature with

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread DP
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown uerusub...@... wrote: DP, That post was addressed to Mayka so I don't know why you felt you were called upon on to defend the pope. Perhaps because you wrote (are you listening DP?) So yes, you did address me. Mike ps, you don't

[Zen] Anti-intellectual

2010-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Edgar,   What do you think of the following anti-intellectual zen remark:   When you cross a bridge, the water underneath stops, but the bridge flows.   Is it complete nonsense? Or it has some other meaning?   Anthony --- On Mon, 4/10/10, Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote: From: Edgar Owen

RE: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Bill,   I am disappointed you are disappointe I am disappointed that Mayka is disappointed with TNH. ad infinitum.   Anthony --- On Tue, 5/10/10, billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote: From: billsm...@hhs1963.org billsm...@hhs1963.org Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school

Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Yes, I think it is similar to near death experiences. Difficult to explain, and anti-intellectual.   Anthony --- On Tue, 5/10/10, Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com wrote: From: Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com Subject: Re: RE: [Zen] Bible, God, etc. To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date:

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Mike,   I don't see your point. For me, a 'free pass' means you are exempt from something, such as criticism. I was thinking that you might be afraid of criticizing religion for fear of the hostile environment. Now I was shocked that you said something so strongly regarding Yehwah. It occurred

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Mike,   It does not matter mice of mouse. In English, fried rice is considered uncountable, and is always singular. But the Thais call it 'flied lice'. More than one louse. That is why Bill is there.   Anthony --- On Tue, 5/10/10, mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: From: mike brown

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Kristy,   I don't think Mayka is insincere, nor did she misspell your name on purpose. It was a typo. Mayka is very conscientious. Please don't take offense. Or I will cry under my pillow. By the way you also call her Maria by mistake.   Anthony --- On Tue, 5/10/10, Kristy McClain

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread Jane
One is tempted to generalize that the nature of living is pervasive disappointment. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: I am disappointed you are disappointe I am disappointed that Mayka is disappointed with TNH. ad infinitum.

Re: [Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-05 Thread Chris Austin-Lane
Are you then saying that there is a cause of pervasive disappointment? Could a way to escape pervasive disappointment? Only if one has pervasive deluded expectations? --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jane ch...@... wrote: One is tempted to generalize that the nature of living is