RE: [Zen] D.L. Again

2008-02-16 Thread BillSmart
JMJM, I know all about that tradition. My question was about what the current Dalai Lama meant when he said, as you reported, .he would not be reincarnated. Does he mean that he will be the last Dalai Lama? Or does he only mean he himself will not be reincarnated? And in either case how do

RE: [Zen] Call For: Roshis, Monks, Teachers

2008-02-16 Thread BillSmart
Al, From a lawyer perspective, it’s like pro se. Or in the words of a famous Latin American public servant: ‘We don’t need no stinking badges!” …Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jue Miao Jing Ming - Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 8:38 AM

RE: [Zen] Call For: Roshis, Monks, Teachers

2008-02-16 Thread BillSmart
Al, I've noticed that too. I think it's because I usually post via email using HTML format. For some reason the apostrophes, carriage returns and dots are are translated into gobbledy-gook (aka Cyrillic). This ought to be better. I wrote it in plain text format. In case you couldn't decipher

RE: [Zen] Practice begins

2008-02-19 Thread BillSmart
Al, I've read some of Krishnamurti in the 1960's when I thought it was fashionable. I also went through a period of reading a lot of the European mystics: Nostradamus, Dante, Nietzsche, etc..., and even Madame Blavatsky. It's all a blur to me now. I like zazen because it's not a blur, it's

RE: [Zen] Practice begins

2008-02-19 Thread BillSmart
Al, There are of course now those that are only peddling zen to make a buck. That was probably inevitable when zen moved to the West, especially in the US where avarice is the national pastime. But I don't look at these as representative of the zen to which I was introduced in the 1960's by

RE: [Zen] Helping Others

2008-02-19 Thread BillSmart
Al, I know the following was a rhetorical question: Bill: I was introduced in the 1960's by a couple of Japanese zen masters living very modestly in Los Angeles, Al: Whatever happened to those kind of people? ...but I'll answer anyway. One of the zen masters, the older one who was in his

RE: [Zen] Helping Others

2008-02-20 Thread BillSmart
Mike, Now I'm a long-haired, clean-shaven hippie...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mike brown Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 2:24 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Helping Others Bill: `...a long-haired, bearded hippie`.I

RE: [Zen] Intro

2008-02-20 Thread BillSmart
Perhaps it is time to reveal the depth and breadth of my practice: • When hungry I eat. • When tired I sleep. • When rested I wake. …Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jue Miao Jing Ming Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 3:37 AM

RE: [Zen] Intro

2008-02-23 Thread BillSmart
Al, Well, everyone knows the practice isn't complete until the paperwork is finished. From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2008 10:37 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Intro From: Perhaps it is time to

RE: [Zen] Aging Mother

2008-06-25 Thread BillSmart
V, I sympathize with you. I too have an ailing mother, and an ailing father. They are 91 and 92 respectively. My mother has Alzheimer's and is slowly slipping into some indescribable black hole. My father has lymphoma and a heart condition caused by his chemo treatments. There are times

RE: [Zen] Buddha Nature (was: Practice, Psychosis and the Human)

2008-06-25 Thread BillSmart
Kai, I don’t recall a similar thread, but I might have missed it. I was very busy working about 6 months ago and was distracted to the point of not keeping up with all the postings on Yahoo! Zen Forum. If you want to thank someone for resurrecting this topic, thank Philomonk

RE: [Zen] Lama's tip: Love or Affection?

2008-06-26 Thread BillSmart
I actually agree with Lama Jigme. The Dali Lama seems to have forgotten the most fundamental Buddhist teaching that you learn in Buddhism 101: all suffering is caused by attachments. His reputation is one of a spiritual leader to his people yet he continues to support, and maybe even

RE: [Zen] Lama's tip: Love or Affection?

2008-06-27 Thread BillSmart
JMJM, Maybe you better remind the Dali Lama about oneness also – the oneness of Tibet and China. That’s a oneness that won’t turn into a duality anytime in the foreseeable future. His problem is he either needs to sit or stand, but above all don’t wobble. He can either be a political leader

RE: [Zen] Lama's tip: Love or Affection?

2008-06-27 Thread BillSmart
Jeffery, Re-read JMJM’s discourse on what he calls ‘…the world of forms and the world of spirit’. It’s pretty good. In your response below you have already fallen into the world of forms. The concepts of ‘true’ and ‘self’ and ‘matters’ are of that world of forms. Tibet and the Dali Lama are

RE: [Zen] Re: Lama's tip: Love or Affection?

2008-06-27 Thread BillSmart
Cid830, I agree with you wholeheartedly that the Dali Lama is acting much more like a political leader now, and my point is I believe he is sacrificing his spiritual leadership by doing so. I would like him to speak about this and try to explain how his political tactics are supporting his

RE: [Zen] Lama's tip: Love or Affection?

2008-06-28 Thread BillSmart
Al, Not exactly. I’m not saying ‘do as I say’. I’m only offering my opinion. I’m also not saying ‘do as I do’. I’m just offering my insight on what I do, especially when that is or appears contradictory with what say. But then I’m not the one who claims to be the reincarnation of a Buddhist

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-06-29 Thread BillSmart
Panda, Sorry! I did forget. I'll start digging today! .Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of pandabananasock Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 4:31 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] Dear Bill I hope you have not forgotten to dig up that

RE: [Zen] Lama's tip: Love or Affection?

2008-06-29 Thread BillSmart
Al, I wasn’t discussing the Chinese. I was discussing the Dali Lama. The Chinese aren’t trying to pass themselves off as Buddhist teachers. I don’t expect much from them in that regard. …Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sent: Sunday, June 29,

RE: [Zen] Lama's tip: Love or Affection?

2008-06-30 Thread BillSmart
Charlie, Charlie, Charlie! Of course it's 'fair', although that isn't an overriding criteria for me. First of all and as I've stated, I wasn't discussing the Chinese government at all, so I'm not holding them to any standards. Secondly, I was discussing the Dali Lama as a Buddhist teacher. If

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-07-02 Thread BillSmart
Panda, Send an email to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] so I can get your email address, and I'll send you something on this.Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of pandabananasock Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 4:31 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen]

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-07-02 Thread BillSmart
Al, I think the most damage (effect) done to me over time has been due to my participation (cause) in Yahoo! Zen Forum. That's definitely the dark side of karma.Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 5:52 PM To:

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-07-02 Thread BillSmart
Chuck, Thanks for your post. I have read extensively on the Buddhist doctrine of Dependant Origination. On the surface it seems to contradict what I believe, but on deeper level it may be a way to ameliorate or explain away karmic anomalies. My interest on this topic is twofold, one

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-07-03 Thread BillSmart
Chuck, Regarding enlightenment and karma: Karma can be explained simply, and as you have stated in the post below, as the 'consequences of one's actions'. An enlightened being has no self, so does not act nor is acted upon. Also, having no self, there is nothing to which the karma could be

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-07-04 Thread BillSmart
Chuck, This is a very good question and a key to my beliefs. The self is an illusion (maya), so no beings actually have a self. Karma is also maya, and is only applicable to beings that have the illusion of self. Since an enlightened being does not have the illusion of self, so also does not

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-07-04 Thread BillSmart
Al, This is my theory. (We don't need no stinkin' badges!) .Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 4:26 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Dear Bill From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] self is an illusion (maya),

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-07-04 Thread BillSmart
.a more meaningful response: Al, This is my theory. (We don't need no stinkin' badges!) I can't site any sutra chapter and verse, but I've been taught that an enlightened being has 'escaped the wheel of life and death', which means to me has transcended karma. Also I've been taught that

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-07-05 Thread BillSmart
Al, I know there is a danger looking at zen as a completely loose, 'roll you own', no rules type of practice. That's not exactly what I'm advocating, although I can certainly see where someone could think that. My comments to your very important post are imbedded below: One of the

RE: [Zen] Practice, Psychosis and the Human

2008-07-05 Thread BillSmart
Philomonk, I hadn't read the part in the Pali cannon where a 'human' is given some special category relative to enlightenment. I have no idea what that would mean and that idea doesn't 'feel' right to me. This is notwithstanding that I've always just been taught that enlightenment is

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-07-06 Thread BillSmart
*** After a Good Night’s Sleep I’ve Revised this Posting in Green Font and Re-sent Al and Chuck, ALL LOGIC AND SCIENCE is based on ILLUSIONS and BELIEFS: an ILLUSION of subject/object (observation), an ILLUSION of time (separate sequential actions (digital)), and a BELIEF in cause

RE: [Zen] Christian Zen

2008-07-07 Thread BillSmart
Al, IMNSHO the term is more properly Zen Christianity (as in Zen Buddhism). It would be a practice of zen from a Christian perspective using Christian writings and dogma, and talking about zen in Christian terms. .Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-07-07 Thread BillSmart
Chuck, I assume you’re asking if Logic is dependent upon the belief in Cause Effect. This is a Good question, and one which addresses a possible overstatement in my post – even my revised post. I haven’t thought about this aspect in depth yet enough to answer you. I don’t have an opinion

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-07-08 Thread BillSmart
Chuck, NOW YOU’RE GETTING IT! Welcome to zen. I’m excited at your reactions so I’ve imbedded my responses in a copy of your posting below: If “ALL LOGIC AND SCIENCE is based on ILLUSIONS and BELIEFS” then your logic is as well. It’s a bit like saying, “This statement is false,” the

RE: [Zen] Weird Print Characters

2008-07-08 Thread BillSmart
Al, I checked this out on the Forum website and see what you mean. I get all posts via email and my posts look okay to me. These all appear to be punctuation marks, most are apostrophes and parenthesis. There might be others but I didn't check them all out. The reason you're getting them is I

RE: [Zen] Weird Print Characters

2008-07-08 Thread BillSmart
Al, These all looked okay to me both in the email and on the website. Did they look okay to you? Chuck, Is there any LOGICAL explanation for this, or is this just plain WEIRD? .Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent:

RE: [Zen] Dear Bill

2008-07-08 Thread BillSmart
A REPOSTING TEST to get rid of ‘weird’ characters…Bill! Chuck, NOW YOU’RE GETTING IT! Welcome to zen. I’m excited at your reactions so I’ve imbedded my responses in a copy of your posting below: If “ALL LOGIC AND SCIENCE is based on ILLUSIONS and BELIEFS” then your logic is as well.

RE: [Zen] Re: Dear Bill

2008-07-22 Thread BillSmart
Chuck, Thanks as always for your post. You are not wrong in the history, genealogy and classification of zen you present in your post attached below. This is the generally accepted position - that zen is an outgrowth and sub-set of Buddhism. I disagree with that for several reasons, but that

RE: RE: [Zen] Re: Dear Bill

2008-07-23 Thread BillSmart
Chuck, Referring to your posting below: Respect/disrespect is not important to me, at least not in this forum. I'm just thankful to see people staying on the point under discussion with their postings. I have given you my thoughts on what I think the traditional definition of zen is, what

RE: [Zen] Re: Gay Roshis?

2008-08-12 Thread BillSmart
Charlie, Thank you for your insightful and thought-provoking post. I have seen actually not seen many samurai movies, but am certain I am not missing anything as regards the focus of this discussion. I believe samurai movies reflect actual Japanese culture about as well as BAYWATCH or the recent

RE: [Zen] zazen

2008-08-12 Thread BillSmart
Sean, I think the fundamental meditation practices of both zen and Vispassana Buddhism are the same. There is a zen saying that when you're meditating and thoughts appear, you should treat them like you would treat a visitor knocking on your door while you are busy doing some important task.

RE: [Zen] Test of Character

2008-08-19 Thread BillSmart
Al, In penance for this very well-constructed piece of sarcasm, I command you to chant 100 Bodhisattva Vows and do 500 bows. OR, you can just send a small donation (anything over $100) to my PayPal account. Your Personal Guru...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [Zen] zazen

2008-08-19 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, (The REAL Edgar) Thank you for your post. I accept with relief your explanation of the TEST OF CHARACTER post. At first I thought it was from Charlie Cruller who occasionally submits outlandish posts to presumably try to goad the members into rude replies. I was very surprised when I

RE: [Zen] Test of Character

2008-08-20 Thread BillSmart
Al, Either you're getting better concealing your sarcasm or this last post was really sincere. Since I prefer sincerity to sarcasm I'll assume it is sincere; and in that case I have some changes to make to my last post: - change 'command' to 'invite' - change '100 Bodhisattva Vows and 500 bows'

RE: [Zen] zazen

2008-08-21 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, (The ILLUSARY Edgar) Thanks for your post and your considered remarks. As a result of your post I have changed my idea about the meaning of the words 'emotions' and 'feelings', at least the way I use them. This all has to do with, as you've also pointed out, the connection with 'self'.

RE: [Zen] Test of Character

2008-08-22 Thread BillSmart
Al et al, I've been BOTHERED ever since I sent the attached post because of my bad advice on chanting. I didn’t think about it properly and responded more to be consistent with the previous postings rather than specifically on chanting. IN MY OPINION The 4 Bodhisattvas vows are good for

RE: [Zen] Re: [evol-psych] Essay: The Shy Computer

2008-08-24 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, Robert, Stan, et al... I am not a participant on the Evolutionary-Psychology Forum but picked this thread up from another forum that I do participate in with Edgar. I did not read the referenced essay. I don't have a particular interest in the topic of machine consciousness, but I do

RE: [Zen] Test of Character

2008-08-26 Thread BillSmart
Jody, Thanks for your post. It gives me the opportunity to better explain my perspective on chanting. Jody wrote: You described that chanting should be sounds with no meaning or chants from other languages that we don't understand. I did recommend this and stand by that recommendation. But

RE: [Zen] Re: [evol-psych] Essay: The Shy Computer

2008-08-26 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, I agree with you that consciousness is the essence of zen. I prefer the word 'awareness' instead of 'consciousness', but I assume we're speaking about the same thing. For me, 'Buddha Mind' is analogous to pure consciousness or pure awareness, as opposed to the illusions of

RE: [Zen] Test of Character

2008-08-27 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, Yes, I brought up this repetition phenomenon in my first post. I used an example Catholic Hail Mary's, but it would, as you point out, eventually apply to anything repeated over and over and over and over... I'm anxious to see what Jody responds as to her expectations vis-à-vis

RE: [Zen] Test of Character

2008-08-27 Thread BillSmart
Jody, Thanks for your post. I appreciate your perspectives and welcome the opportunity to discuss topics like these in an open forum. I hope others reading these posts will feel free to share their perspectives also. My responses are embedded in your most recent post below: Jody posted: As

RE: [Zen] Test of Character

2008-08-30 Thread BillSmart
Jody, JMJM is like a doting grandmother. In my opinion he is being too patronizing with you. That may be one of the differences between Chan zen and the Japanese zen through which I was introduced to zen. What you describe below about imagining the water is invisible and you could see all

RE: [Zen] Test of Character

2008-08-30 Thread BillSmart
Jody, First you need to know how to breath properly. Your posture is very important. Sit in some posture with your spine upright. Any variations of the lotus position are best, but you can also sit on the edge of a hard chair as long as you keep your back upright and do not lean against the

RE: [Zen] Test of Character

2008-08-31 Thread BillSmart
Edgar brings up a good point, and that is 'what is zen'? In the post below Edgar informally defined zen as 'unfiltered/raw experience' and a 'way of life'. It is indeed both of those. I (and most other people) also use the word 'zen' to refer to a PROCESS - the process of learning (unlearning

RE: [Zen] Shango/Voodoo

2008-08-31 Thread BillSmart
Al, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING ON ANOTHER FORUM?!! Especially another BUDDHIST forum? I expect you to spend all of your waking hours on our Zen Forum! I do agree with your post below. However I'd extend your last sentence to cover all religions - even Buddhism - shady, murky, obscure,

RE: [Zen] Test of Character

2008-08-31 Thread BillSmart
Jody, You certainly can learn from anyone and everyone. It's all up to you. If you re-read both JMJM's and my posts you'll see we had essentially the same comments about the meditation technique you described (sea/sea creatures). Only our styles were different. Part of the reason our styles

RE: [Zen] Shango/Voodoo

2008-09-02 Thread BillSmart
Brother Jackson, I think you are absolute correct in your peppery lambasting of Honkie Al. I hope he takes your heartfelt comments seriously and will think twice before again attempting to visit, much less participate in, a non-White forum. I mean, just what was he thinking anyway? That we

RE: [Zen] Test of Character

2008-09-02 Thread BillSmart
Jody, I'm not a Dutch Uncle, I'm just Bill! And yes, I do think we have a wonderful family here on Yahoo! Zen Forum. ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jody W. Ianuzzi Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 9:34 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject:

RE: [Zen] Sick of Flaming

2008-09-02 Thread BillSmart
Cynthia, The only thing that can be done to stop the flaming is to turn this forum into a fully moderated forum in which the moderator - Al - reads and approves postings before allowing them on the forum. Al could also probably block some contributors, but they could get around this very

RE: [Zen] Zen Whore

2008-09-05 Thread BillSmart
Jeni, Welcome to the group! ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jeni Jeni Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:08 PM Subject: [Zen] Zen Whore I guess this is the group for me. I worked my way through law school as a stripper, and there were times that

RE: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-05 Thread BillSmart
JMJM and AL, Zen is not a subset of Chan. Chan is a subset of zen. Chan, at least as JMJM represents it, it a religion, a subset of Buddhism. JMJM is right when he says zen does not have any spirituality. Spirituality is maya. Karma is maya. Remember, JUST THIS! Zen's difficulty is it is

RE: [Zen] Character Building

2008-09-05 Thread BillSmart
Edgar and JMJM, As regards to JMJM's comment about '...Zen may have lost a major part of Chan in Japan.', I say GOOD! The less the better! Put in down, put it all down! ONLY THIS! ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jue Miao Jing Ming -

RE: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori

2008-09-30 Thread BillSmart
Edgar! I'm surprised and disappointed with this response. How is it you think doing anything is 'just a waste of time'? ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edgar Owen Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:27 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:

RE: [Zen] women zen

2008-09-30 Thread BillSmart
Margie and Karin, When I was involved with the Zen Center of Los Angeles in the late 60's there were a lot of women. I'd estimate about 50:50. Also as I'm sure you both know zen literature is full of references to enlightened women, although I must confess that most of the stories focus on men.

RE: [Zen] Hello and introduction

2008-09-30 Thread BillSmart
Margie, WELCOME! I haven't read the book you cited, but all other books edited by Thomas Cleary that I have read have been very good. ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of roloro1557 Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 12:52 AM To:

RE: [Zen] More on Freedom and causality

2008-09-30 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, I haven't finished reading your paper on time. All last month I was in the USA visiting my ailing, elderly parents and just didn't have the time to do it justice. Maybe when I'm finished with it and am able to get back to you with comments I will see less disagreement between us on

RE: [Zen] More on Freedom and causality

2008-10-01 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, Thanks for your response. I welcome the opportunity to discuss topics like this. In your response below you talked about randomness as if I had disagreed with that. I do agree, in fact believe reality is entirely chaotic (the original of chaos, not the chaos theory meaning). Reality

RE: [Zen] Re: 2009 Best Way Pledge

2008-10-02 Thread BillSmart
Chris, In a recent post you wrote: I do disagree with Bill's point that Zen has always stood alone and that other beliefs have tried to incorporate it, I believe it is the opposite, Zen has been isolated from Zen Buddhism and incorporated into other people's beliefs. Or something like that.

RE: [Zen] Re: 2009 Best Way Pledge

2008-10-02 Thread BillSmart
I agree completely with Edgar...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edgar Owen Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 6:48 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: 2009 Best Way Pledge Mike and Chris, In my view Zen is simply directly

RE: [Zen] Re: 2009 Best Way Pledge

2008-10-03 Thread BillSmart
Margie, So, you think 'The atom certainly existed long before humans came along to see it.' Did it? That sounds like the old question of 'if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there, is there a sound?'. I'd extend that question to 'if there is no one there, is there a forest?, is there a

RE: [Zen] Zen and Accountability

2008-10-03 Thread BillSmart
Al, 'Accountability' is covered in Buddhism by the concept of karma, and in the Christian concept of 'as you sow, so shall you reap', or a more positive spin 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. Karma is neither good nor bad, it's just a cosmic or spiritual version of

RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-03 Thread BillSmart
Al, It's all in the attitude...It's not, 'this is it? No Heaven for you? No Nirvana? No nothing? Just worms??'. It's Just THIS!, Heaven! Nirvana! Nothing! Worms! ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 1:15 AM To:

[Zen] Useless Words (Was Re: 2009 Best Way Pledge)

2008-10-03 Thread BillSmart
Margie, You wrote: Am I the only one who is struck funny that a writer (me) is having a text-only discussion about the difficulties and uselessness of words!? I know you are a recent participant to this forum, but this is a theme that I rail about all the time - especially when I get painted

RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-03 Thread BillSmart
Anthony, If you need a purpose to guide your actions, or you need a promise of reward or threat of retribution to convince you not to kill, burn, steal, or rape, try Christianity or one of the many other religions that provide you with an external daddy that will tell you what to do and punish

RE: [Zen] --------@

2008-10-04 Thread BillSmart
Margie, Now this is really excellent! This is your proper reply to 'What is after Satori?'. Thank you...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of roloro1557 Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 5:35 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] @

RE: [Zen] Re: 2009 Best Way Pledge

2008-10-04 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, I am living in Thailand now, for about 6 years now. This is now my home. I do not doubt that Jesus and even Siddhartha Gautama are actual historical figures. I was just commenting that the story of their lives may not be entirely historically accurate. ...Bill! From:

RE: [Zen] Re: 2009 Best Way Pledge

2008-10-04 Thread BillSmart
Chris, No need to wait to resume your practice. What better roshis could you have than your in-laws? What better koans could you work on than your Xbox? ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of cid830 Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 11:37 PM To:

RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-05 Thread BillSmart
Jody, So you don't think of yourself as a man or woman either? ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jody W. Ianuzzi Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 6:58 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen Hello Edgar, Ahhh, but I

RE: [Zen] Re: Zen and Accountability

2008-10-05 Thread BillSmart
Anthony, All morals and ethics are PERSONAL. They apply ONLY TO YOU. You cannot project them on others. So, when in the post below you ask, 'But what if they don't [know right from wrong]?', and when you also cite an example of a doctor who tries to help dogs and ends up getting bitten, you

RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-06 Thread BillSmart
Jody, You wrote: I have never believed in God but the reason why I can never steal or lie is because I would know. I was not afraid of getting caught and I was not worried what God would think, I just knew I could not do such a thing. I NEVER cheated on a test because the better grade was

RE: [Zen] Re: 2009 Best Way Pledge

2008-10-06 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, You asked: I am curious as to why Thailand though? Are you working there or retired? It's a long and winding road. I happen to be on the Thailand section of the road now. I came here about 6 or 7 years ago on a consulting engagement. At that time I was living on a sailboat near Mobile,

RE: [Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-06 Thread BillSmart
Margie and Edgar, We have no work here. In January we'll harvest rice. We'll then re-till the rice land and plant corn. In February we'll harvest the beans from land around my house in the mountains. In March we'll harvest tamarind. No work here. ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

RE: [Zen] Aging and Zen

2008-10-06 Thread BillSmart
Anthony, In response to an earlier post: Most Atheists who are evil ego-maniacs are men. You responded: I am one of them. You are one of which? Atheist? Evil? Ego-maniac? Man? ...or all of the above? ...Bill! Current Book Discussion: any Zen book

RE: [Zen] oops - forgot blog

2008-10-06 Thread BillSmart
Margie, I was looking through you blog and went to your PROFILE. Many of the tags that appeared there were written in Thai! Example: Old Woman เพศ: ผู้หญิง อาชีพ: semi-retired ตำแหน่ง: midwest : สหรัฐอเมริกา Did you do that? If so, why? If not, do you think your blog software did that -

RE: [Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-07 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, Yes, it does sound good on e-paper, but what I see every day does not have much in common with the cited article - although I do see some fundamental areas that are recognizable. They do still chant in ancient Pali. Most monks I've talked to don't know what it is they are chanting - they

RE: [Zen] Re: --------@

2008-10-07 Thread BillSmart
Anthony, I don't reconcile with Theravada. I interact with the local wats (temples) and the monks all the time. It's just another religious rip-off as far as I'm concerned. I've yet to meet any senior monks or temple heads that even seemed like good people, much less good representatives of

RE: [Zen] group

2008-10-07 Thread BillSmart
Akash, Welcome to the group! I assume from your name and your yahoo.in address you are in India. Is that right? I've worked in both Delhi and Mumbai. I know India is host to a great variety of religions - Hindu, Islam, Buddhist, Christian, etc... What is the major Buddhist practice in

RE: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-07 Thread BillSmart
Mac A. Roni, I'll respond to your recent post line by line, but first I want to make sure we're both talking about the same thing when we talk about the ability to determine right from wrong. It appears you use the term 'morality' for that, and so do I. I define 'morality' the same way it is

RE: [Zen] Re: Zen and Accountability

2008-10-08 Thread BillSmart
Dearest Mac A. Roni, Thanks so much for your recent post. It sent my heart a-twitter. My responses are imbedded below: So small children do not need to learn anything, it is their Buddha Nature? CORRECT-a-mundo! Just let children be children. Your other response seemed to be that people

RE: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread BillSmart
Anthony, Anthony, if you really feel that way, it's not the world that's in turmoil. It's you. Just sit. That's where you'll find peace..Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 5:29 AM To:

RE: [Zen] Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread BillSmart
Al and Edgar, With all due respect I fail to see the relevance of this discussion of whether consciousness survives the death of the body. Who cares? We only have today, right now. Tomorrow will never exist, much less death. Don't take this post as a request for you to stop your discussion,

RE: [Zen] Re: Moral moralistic

2008-10-08 Thread BillSmart
Jackson, The key item in this phrase is 'spontaneously', not 'in the interest of others'. As far as I'm concerned 'in the interest of others' shouldn't even be tagged on the end of this. That would make it a cleaner concept. ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [Zen] Moral moralistic

2008-10-08 Thread BillSmart
JMJM, I like the distinction between 'moral' and 'moralistic' in the story you've related below, except I do not agree with qualification of 'in the interest of others'. I think that phrase could be left out completely. Using these definitions, 'moral' is absolutely compatible with zen or

RE: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread BillSmart
Anthony, I'll be happy to give you a single word that describes 'how to maintain peace and avoid turmoil': Mu! ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:15 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen]

RE: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread BillSmart
Makya, My view of morals is the same as Margie's. I define 'morals' as a code of conduct. This code can be very complex - as in Islamic Sharia Law or the Jewish Talmud; or can be fairly short as in the Old Testament's 10 Commandments or the Buddhist 5 Precepts; or can be very simple as in

RE: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread BillSmart
Anthony, I am as deep as a mirror...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:53 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Margie, I am poor at knowing other peoples experience. But

RE: [Zen] Come back to Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread BillSmart
Anthony, A message from Mahakasyapa is not a message from you. Don’t wait until you're dead. Send us a message now! Speak! Show us your Buddha Nature! ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 5:46 AM To:

RE: [Zen] consciousness

2008-10-10 Thread BillSmart
Edgar wrote: Good point. And we actually are conscious of only the minutest fraction of the reality around us at any time. In the DOORS TO PERCEPTION published in 1954 the author Aldous Huxley proposed that the brain, rather than emanating knowledge, actually acts as a FILTER of knowledge. He

RE: [Zen] meditation

2008-10-10 Thread BillSmart
Jamie, Welcome to the group! You wrote: I was wondering what kinds of meditations are good to use. How often should one meditate for,ect? I want to get into zen and not too sure how to.I'm 35 yrs old. I'll respond to your post in reverse from bottom to top: Your age does not make any real

RE: [Zen] consciousness

2008-10-12 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, In your post below you stated: Causality though does exist and provides the rules which make our conscious perspectives and material world view cognitive constructs consistent. Thus causality does govern what happens in the world of forms. Why are you so certain that causality does exist

RE: [Zen] consciousness

2008-10-12 Thread BillSmart
Jim, Descartes famous declaration means something a lot different to me now then when I took Philosophy 101 in college. Now I understand it as: I think,... The arising and exercising of cognitive faculties... ...therefore I am. ...gives rise to dualist thought and concepts, most specifically a

RE: [Zen] Causality

2008-10-14 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, Thanks. I was expecting (hoping) your answer would be 'events'. So now that you've fallen into my trap I'll proceed knocking off all your pawns, knights, castles, bishops, and finally your queen before I move on to checkmate. Please define 'event' for me, such as: Are there multiple

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