Re: [Zen] Compassion

2010-07-21 Thread ED
Why don't claim, if that's the way one sees it? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: Artie, It is OK to have different beliefs, as long as you don't claim yours is the final truth. Anthony Current Book Discussion

[Zen] Re: Frustration with Job and Teenage Child

2010-07-21 Thread ED
Like the mind-state recommended in the Judeo-Christian holy books, when a parent spanks his/her child? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: Bill, I think the key is when you hang a person, you should not have hatred. Anthony

[Zen] Re: Compassion

2010-07-24 Thread ED
What is compassion? http://www.google.com/search?hl=ensource=hpq=define%3Acompassionaq=f\ aqi=aql=oq=gs_rfai http://www.google.com/search?hl=ensource=hpq=define%3Acompassionaq=f\ aqi=aql=oq=gs_rfai = --ED

[Zen] Re: Murder

2010-07-26 Thread ED
. The murderer is gone accepting the reprecussion, but the judgement still remains in the minds and hearts of the world stuck in the past seeing what is no longer there. The world is what it is. If you or I were the creator, we would have botched up the job in other ways. --ED

Re: [Zen] Compassion

2010-07-26 Thread ED
In my observation, Bill is forgetting nothing. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: Joe, You keep pointing your finger at bill, which leads me to sympathize with 'Bill'. He is always talking about the ultmate truth, forgetting the conventional. Anthony

[Zen] Re: Compassion

2010-07-26 Thread ED
Bill is quite happy doing his thing. If you are happy doing your thing, then go for it. If you are not, then you may want to pay heed to what Bill, Zen Masters and the patriarchs have had to say on the matter. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, maitreya003 joult...@... wrote: Bill

[Zen] Re: Compassion

2010-07-27 Thread ED
Work out your *own* salvation with diligence., said the Buddha. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, maitreya003 joult...@... wrote: or build a boat when one is spontaneously needed. or feed others when they hunger, help find shelter for those who need rest. When self is individual

Re: [Zen] Compassion

2010-07-27 Thread ED
In the path that you follow, do *you* forget anything? And, what is your path? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED, At least he forgets gravity pulls his body down the earth. And others. Anthony Joe, You keep pointing your finger at bill

[Zen] Re: Compassion

2010-07-28 Thread ED
or cats or other small mammals. I think that Jesus and Buddha advocated the development of compassion toward all, which starts as a mental conception, but with practice can become second nature, we are told. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! billsm...@... wrote: Thinking of your own

[Zen] Re: Compassion

2010-07-31 Thread ED
Anthony, Are you asking us or are you telling us? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED, In my understanding (if found incorrect, please point out), Buddha says you must first work out your own salvation, then you save others. But the later Mahayanist

[Zen] Re: Compassion

2010-08-02 Thread ED
become apparent. In the meantime just sit, listen to talks by teachers steeped in Dharma, and keep the faith. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED, I am asking and also telling everybody what I read about the confusing Mahayanist literature. Anthony

[Zen] On: Understanding your world

2010-08-05 Thread ED
Anthony, Most or all on the Zen Forum appear to have a meaning system that provides structure and helps them understand their world. You appear to be the odd one out. Are you? --ED Brain study shows that thinking about God reduces distress -- but only for believers. August 4th, 2010

[Zen] Re: Compassion

2010-08-05 Thread ED
... and there is always silence. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, roloro1557 roloro1...@... wrote: JMJM~ YES!!! :-) Sometimes I feel wordy and sometimes I don't. . . . Words can be so inadequate, yet are all we have sometimes. . . . Artie JMJM wrote: Smile on the last

[Zen] Re: Compassion

2010-08-05 Thread ED
But, discussion is so un-zen-like, no? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, roloro1557 roloro1...@... wrote: ED- YES!!! :-) Which often speaks volumes :-) Not very well in a discussion forum though, I'm afraid- LOL! Artie --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001

[Zen] Re: On: Understanding your world

2010-08-05 Thread ED
And, does the meaning you find make you unconfused and happy? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, roloro1557 roloro1...@... wrote: I am definitely an odd-one-out. . . . BUT-- I have no problem finding meaning :-) Earlier I posted that sometimes I am wordy - well here goes

[Zen] Re: a glimpse

2010-08-05 Thread ED
For whatever reasons, you appear to possess (an allegedly East Asian) perceptual mind rather than (the allegedly Western) discursive mind. Is one superior to the other, and if so, why? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, roloro1557 roloro1...@... wrote: Morning. . . This morning I

Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

2010-08-07 Thread ED
http://www.thebuddhadharma.com/issues/2008/summer/forum.php http://www.thebuddhadharma.com/issues/2008/summer/forum.php Forum: How to Work with Emotions From: Buddhadharma, The Practitioner's Quarterly --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote:

Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

2010-08-10 Thread ED
Mayka, That's *your* truth, and I neither assert nor deny its truth - for yourself. Persons may in due course realize the wisdom of your understandings - or they may not. Thank you for sharing. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: ED: Doing

[Zen] Zen and the art of saving the planet

2010-08-11 Thread ED
Zen and the art of saving the planet http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/zen-and-the-art-of\ -saving-the-planet-2048029.html http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/zen-and-the-art-o\ f-saving-the-planet-2048029.html

Re: [Zen] Zen and the art of saving the planet

2010-08-12 Thread ED
Saving myself from what, in your opinion? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: .by first saving yourself.Bill! ED posted: Zen and the art of saving the planet http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/zen-and-the-art-of\ -saving-the-planet

Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

2010-08-13 Thread ED
Mayka, depending on which Buddhist path: Hinayana, Mahayana, Vajrayana, Mahamudra, Dzogchen, etc. that one is traversing, emotions are dealt with differently. --ED http://viewonbuddhism.org/tantra_practice.html http://viewonbuddhism.org/tantra_practice.html This also illustrates one

Re: [Zen] Zen and the art of saving the planet

2010-08-13 Thread ED
Bill, which self are you referring to? --ED Definitions of self on the Web: * your consciousness of your own identity * a person considered as a unique individual; one's own self * (used as a combining form) relating to--of or by or to or from or for--the self; self-knowledge

Re: [Zen] EGO

2010-08-13 Thread ED
. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jody W. Ianuzzi j...@... wrote: Hello Mayka, I used to feel the same way. I actually hated myself. Then I was reading a book by the Dalai Lama and he said that he found the whole concept of people hating themselves to be so alien and he couldn't

Re: [Zen] Zen and the art of saving the planet

2010-08-14 Thread ED
Bill, yes, if one finds the illusions of self too painful, one can take action accordingly. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: Ed, I see little difference in any of the definitions below, with the possible exception of the one used a combing form. They all

Re: [Zen] Where's Mayka?

2010-08-15 Thread ED
The question, as it stands, is meaningless. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: Anthony; You didn't answer the question. You limited the question tje skin of people. You gave a mental image that you imagined. This is again a job of the ego

Re: [Zen] Namaste- first message

2010-08-17 Thread ED
about death? There was a time not so long ago when I was fearful when contemplating my non-existence after death. Since there is nothing I could do about it, I chose to stop thinking about this matter and get on with life. --ED PS: Consider not even believing the answers you find in yourself

[Zen] Compassion for Others Benefits Self

2010-08-18 Thread ED
http://www.physorg.com/ Study Shows that Women's Compassion for Others Benefits the SelfAugust 18th, 2010 in Medicine Health / Psychology Psychiatry (PhysOrg.com) -- The Dalai Lama holds that compassion -- concern for the well-being of others -- leads to happiness. Now a new study has

Re: [Zen] I did like the story.

2010-08-20 Thread ED
It appears to me that .Bill! has furnished the 'correct' perspective of zen/dharma toward suffering. http://www-usr.rider.edu/~suler/zenstory/cliffhanger.html http://www-usr.rider.edu/~suler/zenstory/cliffhanger.html --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: DP, Like I

[Zen] Re: I did like the story.

2010-08-20 Thread ED
I hear you loud and clear. I too for decades used to get very frustrated that persons would not hear or could not understand or would not attempt to apprehend what I was trying to say. Now I view this phenomenon as being part and parcel of the human condition - and I have been and tend to be

[Zen] OCD and OCPD

2010-08-21 Thread ED
OCD and OCPD http://ocd.about.com/od/otheranxietydisorders/a/OCD_OCPD.htm http://ocd.about.com/od/otheranxietydisorders/a/OCD_OCPD.htm

Re: [Zen] I did like the story.

2010-08-21 Thread ED
I was told that medical insurance in the US usually covers talk-therapy for a limited number of sessions, but only after at least a couple of anti-depressants have been tried and have fail to prove effective. Does anyone know for certain whether this is true? ---ED --- In Zen_Forum

Re: [Zen] Having trouble getting back into zazen

2010-08-24 Thread ED
[http://home.comcast.net/~zenquaker/Resources/item1c.gif] Great Plum Mountain - Listening to the Dharma Zen Temple a Seattle Zen Temple in the Rinzai Dharma line [http://home.comcast.net/~zenquaker/Resources/_clear.gif] [http://home.comcast.net/~zenquaker/Resources/_clear.gif]

Re: [Zen] Practical Mysticism - Evelyn Underhill

2010-09-12 Thread ED
us all. Greetings! I resonate strongly with the above statements on zen. Does anyone hold a different perspective? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, novelid...@... wrote: Greetings In my estimation there really is no way to assert what Zen is, whether you are restricting it to zazen

[Zen] Re: all the mysticism I'll ever need

2010-09-16 Thread ED
Artie, If not of genetic origin, how did you train your mind into this felicitous mode of experiencing the external world? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, roloro1557 roloro1...@... wrote: The morning mist glowing with that soft, soft, subtle, rainbow light of pearls, even as the sun

Re: [Zen] Practical Mysticism - Evelyn Underhill

2010-09-16 Thread ED
Inclusivity is apealing - until the beliefs of the other group are experienced as detrimental to groups we identify with. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote: Glimpses of how other people and groups of people might approach these things is always

Re: [Zen] Practical Mysticism - Evelyn Underhill

2010-09-16 Thread ED
Indeed! - and a very desirable trait in others. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote: That can still be acknowledged and then held though, surely? Rose Inclusivity is apealing - until the beliefs of the other group are experienced as detrimental

[Zen] Re: the entire poem

2010-09-16 Thread ED
A Tibetan Buddhism Dzogchen perspective: Since everything is but an apparition, complete in being what it is, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out into laughter. -- Longchen Rabjampa --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, roloro1557

[Zen] Re: Dharma talks

2010-09-16 Thread ED
http://dharmaseed.org/teachers/ http://dharmaseed.org/teachers/ ??? --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, DP wookielife...@... wrote: Somebody posted a link with some interesting Buddhist (non-denominational) stuff, including some Dharma talks. Does anybody remember what it was?

[Zen] Tantra: The Diamond Path

2010-09-17 Thread ED
Tantra: The Diamond Path LISTEN, ABUSHRI by Dza Patrul Rinpoche http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrul_Rinpoche (1808-1887) Translated by Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche You who enjoy the union of bliss and emptiness Seated motionless on the lunar disc Above a beautiful hundred petalled flower

[Zen] Re: Sharing religions

2010-09-18 Thread ED
Howver, his psyche did balance itself out by brown-nosing the Israelis and the Australian Jewish lobby. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown uerusub...@... wrote: Hi Audry and Artie, It's quite a different situation in Australia regarding Aboriginal people. When

[Zen] Re: Sharing religions

2010-09-18 Thread ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown uerusub...@... wrote: ps Audrey, I used to be in the British infantry and have great respect for the US Marines (not as good as the Brit Army, but still damn good!) : ) ED posts: MIT historian examines path of war in new book September 15th

[Zen] Re: Sharing religions

2010-09-18 Thread ED
/group/Zen_Forum/message/19993 --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, audreydc1983 audreydc1...@... wrote: When I see a white person attempt to connect (to the land, or deity) in a Native American path (or one that just mimics a native american path), I usually wonder about what hole they're trying

Re: [Zen] Tantra: The Diamond Path

2010-09-18 Thread ED
not. The wisdom and power of exoteric Judaism, Christianity and Islam is that, due to their Old Testament tribal roots, they respect the intrinsic tribal nature of homo sapiens sapiens. And this explains why, over the centuries, they have continually been and are at each other's throats. --ED PS

Re: [Zen] Dharma talks

2010-09-18 Thread ED
into the human psyche and its interaction with its environment. --ED Hello DP, ED and all: There is this video that can lead to the website of this buddhist group from Australia who sound pretty good to me as the classes are very easy going with a realistic western way of communication

[Zen] Re: Sharing religions

2010-09-19 Thread ED
tendency to profit at the expense of those outside one's group. It's good chatting with you too, Aud. ~ED

[Zen] Re: Sharing religions

2010-09-19 Thread ED
it. People are people; look to the conditions to explain the differences. --Chris Yes, and the primary condition is: Which groups have the most power. --ED 

[Zen] Re: Sharing religions

2010-09-20 Thread ED
Chris, any comment or disagreement on the other three points? (See below.) --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane ch...@... wrote: Well, the interesting thing in Guns, Germs and Steel is that the conditions of power arose from other more picayune conditions to do

[Zen] Re: Sharing religions

2010-09-20 Thread ED
Chris, The first line of the Tibetan version of the Dhammapada states: All things are of the nature of mind.See below. --ED President George Washington The immediate objectives are the total destruction and devastation of their settlements. It will be essential to ruin their crops

[Zen] Re: Sharing religions

2010-09-20 Thread ED
At the present time, which cultures do you regard as 'repellent' and which not? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ChrisAustinLane ch...@... wrote: The contents of writing arises quite naturally from culture. I have little doubt I would have had repellent beliefs if brought up

[Zen] Re: Sharing religions

2010-09-20 Thread ED
their own survivability and prosperity - at the expense of other persons and groups if necessary. See below. --ED http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2005/dec/27/eu.turkey http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2005/dec/27/eu.turkey The Turks haven't learned the British way of denying past atrocities

[Zen] Should we disturb zazen practice with issues like this?

2010-09-29 Thread ED
September 28, 2010 The Sin of Independence Why Doesn't the US Talk to Iran? By ISMAEL HOSSEIN-ZADEH and KARLA HANSEN The unrelenting diplomatic and geopolitical standoff between Iran and the United States is often blamed on the Iranian government for its confrontational foreign policies, or

[Zen] Re: I did zazen again for the first time in a long while...

2010-09-29 Thread ED
The last three statements are like adding legs to a snake. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, DP wookielife...@... wrote: I did ten minutes (half hour was too much). Nothing happened. Good. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you

Re: [Zen] Should we disturb zazen practice with issues like this?

2010-09-29 Thread ED
Bill, I hear you. Since zen has nothing to say about anything, it is hard to know what to say about zen. Can this article below be regarded as relevant in any way to zen? --ED September 27, 2010 Reflections of a Professional Grumbler Gandhi's Wisdom By URI AVNERY SURFING THE television

Re: [Zen] Should we disturb zazen practice with issues like this?

2010-09-30 Thread ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: Ed, Anything and everything COULD be regarded as relevant to zen practice. That determination is up to you. Bill, one has to be an advanced practitioner of zen to experience this truth. Do you think this posting is relevant to your

Re: [Zen] Should we disturb zazen practice with issues like this?

2010-10-03 Thread ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, cid830 summitj...@... wrote: Ed, I haven't kept up with the Zen Forum for several months. It seems I come back to where I left off, always agreeing with Master Bill. Chris, Agreeing with Master Bill on what? In recalling past posts I always seemed

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-04 Thread ED
Hi Mayka, Welcome to the real world of humans, whose intrinsic non-Buddha nature (as it has evolved) is self-interest. ;-) --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: Hi Mike and Everyone! If everytime one has a dissapointment in any established

Re: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-04 Thread ED
[EO] Nonsense. Zen is not anti anything except perhaps illusion. Edgar, I currently favor your understanding (subject to further thought and discussion.) And, how does one determine when one is under an illusion/delusion and when not? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen

Re: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-04 Thread ED
DP, What concern is that of yours? (Double standards are intrinsic to the non-Buddha nature of all humans.) Are you demanding that these people change their ways for you to be happy? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, DP wookielife...@... wrote: I guess you're right. However, I

Re: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-04 Thread ED
of a Christian sect that uses Christianity in a poisonous way. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, DP wookielife...@... wrote: No, I'm not demanding anything. I just find it troubling that when one place in the forum I was addressing was relegated to religious and spiritual discussions (which

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-04 Thread ED
Mike, shouldn't you be granting equal time to neo-zionazis? ;-) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown uerusub...@... wrote: DP,Just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you, huh. Let me spell it out for you one more time. To paraphrase Kristy - she

[Zen] Re: 'Having a problem with somebody' - Bill, et al

2010-10-04 Thread ED
Rose, IMO, the best point to start with is with some particular situation in your life. Rgds, --ED

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-04 Thread ED
if you don't) --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown uerusub...@... wrote: Thanks Mayka, reading you loud and clear! Just one thing. I think that aggresive and destructive criticism can sometimes be a good thing. The recent demonstrations in London against the Popes visit

[Zen] Re: 'Having a problem with somebody' - Bill, et al

2010-10-04 Thread ED
! --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote: I hadn't read anything like that level of detail into Bills statement. It seemed simple, and it *seems* simple. Just bloody difficult in practice. I'll give you an example from my own life - which is messy and bitty

Re: [Zen] Mind

2010-10-04 Thread ED
Anthony, I think that the 'heart' metaphorically connotes the sections of the brain responsible for feelings. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: JMJM, It is wrong that you associate thinking with the heart. The brain plays the key role in thinking

Re: [Zen] Bible, God, etc.

2010-10-04 Thread ED
- but it is not necessary. You can gain information about most anything with your intelligence †like reading books or even listening to others talk. How does one recognize an illusion? --ED Intelligence can be used to learn to swim or ride a bike. You can get a general idea of what it is you are supposed to do

Re: [Zen] illusion

2010-10-05 Thread ED
Edgar, From a zen perspective is not all this conceptualization unnecessary, (like 'adding legs to a snake'?) --Ed --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgaro...@... wrote: JMJM, An excellent description of the impermanent nature of forms and thus their illusory nature

Re: [Zen] New member.

2010-10-15 Thread ED
) Are these cycles of pain and bliss a necessary concomitant of the process of realizing one's Buddha Nature? (5) Have Zen masters made any statements concerrning the naturalness or supra-naturalness of 'Buddha Nature'. I do look forward to your understandings and insights. --ED --- In Zen_Forum

Re: [Zen] New member.

2010-10-15 Thread ED
Mike, Some 35 years ago I had been to one *similar* such ten-day retreat with Joseph Goldstein, Jack Kornfeld and Susan Salzberg. What's known about the long-term beneficial effects on a practitioner from a large number of such retreats? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-15 Thread ED
Could it be the influence of the cause-and-effect worldview of Buddhism on Japanese culture versus a confident: We totally blameless innocent-victims, they the evil ones view of reality? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown uerusub...@... wrote: Kristy, It's certainly

Re: [Zen] New member.

2010-10-15 Thread ED
Greetings, Kahty! What can one say other than the same old, same old: Variability in genetics and environment? Regards, ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, kahtychen touc...@... wrote: Greetings, All. Why do some people engage in studying the mind/nature of being/the metaphysical

Re: [Zen] New member.

2010-10-16 Thread ED
Mike, Thank you so much for your informative comments which I will mull over (together with Bill's.) I appreciate the brevity, precision and clarity of the understandings and insights that you (and Bill) have afforded us. Thanks again. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown

Re: [Zen] New member.

2010-10-16 Thread ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED, Your posts always involve or provoke insight. Anthony, It makes me a little happy that at least one person sees and appreciates at least one trait that I may possess. ;-) I won't comment on the relationships between

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-16 Thread ED
Anthony, I believe that Bill, like me, is an agnostic where karma, rebirth and the supernatural are concerned. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: Bill, That proved my suspicion that you are a Communist (Red Star), because you deny karma, rebirth

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-16 Thread ED
Anthony, I *am* a non-believer in the Abrahmic (Jewish-Christian-Islamic) God-conception. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED, Agnostic, if I understand correctly, means sceptic. If so, I can be tolerant. If you and Bill go further to become

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-16 Thread ED
=Jma6TOv5E5SqsAOk47GpDwved=0\ CAQQBSgAq=define%3Askepticspell=1 http://www.google.com/search?hl=ensa=Xei=Jma6TOv5E5SqsAOk47GpDwved=\ 0CAQQBSgAq=define%3Askepticspell=1 --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED, Agnostic, if I understand correctly, means sceptic. Anthony

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-16 Thread ED
Anthony, I think not. http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=define%3AagnosticbtnG=Search http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=define%3AagnosticbtnG=Search http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=define%3AskepticbtnG=Search http://www.google.com/search?hl=enq=define%3AskepticbtnG=Search --ED

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-17 Thread ED
Bill, Next question: What sort of agnostic is one? --ED Strong agnosticism or positive agnosticism is the belief /wiki/Belief that it is impossible for humans /wiki/Human to know /wiki/Knowledge whether or not any deities /wiki/Deity exist. It is a broader view than weak agnosticism

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-17 Thread ED
, a universal truth, or the truth according to zen? Thanks, --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: There is only one Truth, and that is Just THIS! Bill! Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-17 Thread ED
Anthony, karma: the effects of a person's actions that determine his destiny in his next incarnation truth: a fact that has been verified I do not know whether karma /retribution or rebirth are true conceptions or not. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote

[Zen] Questions, questions, question

2010-10-17 Thread ED
Anthony, Is 'zen' definable at all? If so, what is a defininition of 'zen'. --ED Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-17 Thread ED
Anthony, Skeptic or agnostic with respect to what conceptions: God, the Judeo-Christian-Islamic-God, rebirth, karma, after-life, other dimensions of existence like heaveny worlds and hell worlds, non-physical entities like angels, ... ? --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-17 Thread ED
Anthony, As the saying goes, if you see Socrates and the Buddha on the road, kill both. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED/Bill, In a discussion like this, I tend to follow Socrates' statement: 'I know I don't know, while fools don't know they don't

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-17 Thread ED
To Stalin, a million of anything were just a statistic. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: Stalin says, 'one agnostic shakes the world, but a million agnostics are just a statistic.' Anthony Current Book

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-17 Thread ED
Bill, Your assertions exemplify the simplicity, parsimony, clarity and straighforwardness that one might expect from a person who has steeped himelf in zen practice. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: Ed, One is a single agnostic. Two would be a pair

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-17 Thread ED
ED: do not know whether karma /retribution or rebirth are true conceptions or not. Anthony: I don't know either. But any better theory? ED: I cannot see how anyone could hold a position different from mine. Can you? --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED, I

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-17 Thread ED
Anthony, Kill all discursive thinking, one female German zen master (who had the Inka of a well-known Japanese Zen master), sugggested to me in a sesshin Dokusan some three decades ago. --ED PS: She was as strict as a Prussian General, and commanded us not to move at all - even when our noses

Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question

2010-10-17 Thread ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: Ed, Zen is illogical, so undefinable. To an individual student, the utterances of his Zen master may appear to be none, one or both of {logical, not-logical} simultaneously. In other words, Zen is beyond logic

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-17 Thread ED
Anthony, Let go of discursive thinking, one female German zen master (who had the Inka of a well-known Japanese Zen master), sugggested to me in Dokusan at a sesshin, some three decades ago. --ED PS: She was as strict as a Prussian General, and commanded us not to move at all - even when our

Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question

2010-10-18 Thread ED
suggest other questions that might further an understanding of zen.) --ED Addendum: o discursive: dianoetic + digressive o dianoetic: proceeding to a conclusion by reason or argument o digressive: rambling thought or speech; tending to depart from the main point; not relevant, focused

Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question

2010-10-18 Thread ED
of enlightenment, experienced a non-ordinary state that lasted six days. This experience, which I prefer not to discuss, was never repeated, and is the basis of any 'faith' I may possess in the potential for realization of Buddha nature. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: I want

Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question

2010-10-18 Thread ED
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: Hi ED: Just for the seek of responding your posting questionnaire. Mayka, thank you so much for sharing your perspectives. --- What, if any, is the worldview of zen? I don't know. Are there worlview zen?. I think

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-18 Thread ED
Anthony, Anthony, My position is: The data required to determine the truth or falsity of karma/retribution or rebirth is not currently available (and will never be available.) --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: ED, Your agnostic position is as much

[Zen] Re: Don't pray in my school and I won't think in your church.

2010-10-18 Thread ED
Anthony, If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him . signifies: [Zen is] a special transmission outside of the scriptures, No reliance on words and letters, A direct pointing to the heart/mind of man, And the realization of enlightenment. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question

2010-10-18 Thread ED
of an accredited Zen master, can alter the neurophysiology of the brain, resulting in the experience of 'enlightenment' or equivalently, the realization of one's 'Buddha nature'? Kind regards, --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Maria Lopez flordel...@... wrote: http://groups.yahoo.com/group

[Zen] Re: Beverly Hills Zen

2010-10-19 Thread ED
k. *bows* A thriving merger of zen and the sacred profit motive? k, please don't be disheartened. Just check him out on the Internet and if you don't feel comfortable with what you see, dump him - with joy! Best, e --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthypl...@... wrote:

Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question

2010-10-19 Thread ED
Is it the case that zazen and other zen practices, over a long period of time, under the guidance of an accredited Zen master, can alter the neurophysiology of the brain, resulting in the experience of 'enlightenment' or equivalently, the realization of one's 'Buddha nature'? --ED Hi ED

Re: [Zen] Questions, questions, question

2010-10-19 Thread ED
Bill, Thank you for responding to my questions. I have much respect for and I greatly value your understandings of zen. I will mull over your perspectives below. Thanks again. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, billsm...@... wrote: Ed, My responses are embedded below

[Zen] Re: Beverly Hills Zen

2010-10-19 Thread ED
Including the work of screening one's Teacher before one accepts him as one's guide. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane ch...@... wrote: The very heart of zen cannot be achieved in any other method than our own hard work. ... Chris

[Zen] Zen practice?

2010-10-19 Thread ED
of a psychotherapist/psycholgist who is also a zennist, but is not your zen master o One continually returns to mindfulness in the here and now o And so on --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane ch...@... wrote: To know zen, the easiest method is to sit zazen. --Chris

[Zen] Tantric Crazy Wisdom

2010-10-19 Thread ED
Eat your heart out, Anthony! ;-) --ED Drukpa Kunley Drukpa Kunley, popularly known as the Bhutan's Divine Madman, was known for his crazy wisdom. Lama Drukpa Kunley is one of the strangest religious and historical characters in the exotic land of Bhutan. One of the great religious teachers

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