[Zen] Re: Mindfulness pt 2

2011-01-06 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Dave P wookielife...@... wrote: So how does one separate ego from mind? Hi Dave, pleased to meet you. So tell me, if ego is just a convenient term for the 5 skandas, who is it that wants to separate ego from mind? And if the skandas arise in Mind, how

[Zen] The Mind and The Brain

2011-01-06 Thread SteveW
Since the topic of OCD came up, I thought that some people here might be interested in Dr. Jeffrey Schwartz's book, The Mind and The Brain, which discusses OCD and neuroplasticity from a Buddhist view-point. It also details Dr. Schwartz's practical method for dealing with the disorder. I highly

[Zen] Re: Mindfulness pt 2

2011-01-07 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthypl...@... wrote: Whoops!   Here is the last line..   ...means for most, that the ego-self is immersed in a resting in Awareness delusion.  But it feels good, or at least better, so it sticks with it.  But this has nothing to do

Re: [Zen] zen, reality, etc(to Anthony/list)

2011-01-09 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel gunnar19632...@... wrote: --- On Sat, 8/1/11, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote: MEL: I'll throw the question back at you and otherswhat is real exactly when all change moment by moment?   Anthony: I am carrying a shield that makes the question

Re: [Zen] zen, reality, etc(to Anthony/list)

2011-01-09 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@... wrote: Dear Steve, Thank you for your post. May I ask that you post more in the future. :-) Hi Jue Mia Jing Ming. I am pleased to meet you. Everyone here seems very nice. I am sure I will learn a great

[Zen] Re: moment by moment(to Steve/list)

2011-01-11 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel gunnar19632...@... wrote: --- On Tue, 11/1/11, SteveW eugnostos2...@... wrote: S: Hi Mel. MEL: Hello S: Subject and object are conceptual constructs that are inter-dependant and relative to one another. MEL: Yes S: It is meaningless

[Zen] Re: So what should I do?

2011-01-12 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Dave P wookielife...@... wrote: I've been trying to keep up with the zazen, mostly with success, and keeping up with the mindfulness, but I still have the nagging question that troubles my OCD: What do I do when, in order to confront my OCD, I must do

[Zen] Re: So what should I do?

2011-01-12 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Dave P wookielifeday@... wrote: I understand where you're coming from, but for me the problem is contamination. Since everyone has a desire to be healthy, I don't know what's a healthy way of avoiding contamination and what's an unhealthy way. How

[Zen] Re: So what should I do?(to Steve/list)

2011-01-13 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel gunnar19632000@... wrote: --- On Thu, 13/1/11, SteveW eugnostos2000@... wrote: When I was younger, I was troubled by obssesive checking behavior. I have found that, for me, it is a matter of just being mindful of the anxiety, as it arises, without

[Zen] Re: So what should I do?

2011-01-13 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: Ed, Yes. Counting or following the breath is not shikantaza. These are techniques that are sometimes used to get you to shikantaza. ...Bill! Hi Bill! I have heard of Shikantaza, and have read about it, but really know

[Zen] Re: So what should I do?(to Steve/list)

2011-01-13 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: So many people suffering from uncertainty. Let us form a club. Anthony Should we? I don't know... And I'm not sure what we should call it! What if we give it the wrong name?! I read once that 2 Zen/Chan people were

[Zen] Re: So what should I do?

2011-01-13 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: Steve, The Japanese word shikantaza has been tranlated on this forum by both Japanese and Chinese speakers in great detail. You can go back into the posts to see all the discussion on this, but the bottom line for me is that

[Zen] Re: Differences Tao/Chan, which older(to Kristy/list)

2011-01-14 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel gunnar19632000@... wrote: --- On Fri, 14/1/11, Kristy McClain healthyplay1@... wrote: Even Buddha, I suspect, had some shadowy corners.  MEL: Apparently, his englightenment was not permanent. He was human, and therefore suffered just like the

[Zen] Re: For love of Zen, and Shotokan(to Steve/list)

2011-01-14 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel gunnar19632000@... wrote: --- On Fri, 14/1/11, SteveW eugnostos2000@... wrote: - MEL: Steve, unfortunately I cannot impress you as above. I got no higher than orange belt in Goju in the early 90sÂ

Re: [Zen] Christendom, Zen, and all things good and wonderful(to Chris/list)

2011-01-14 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane chris@... wrote: On Friday, January 14, 2011, Mel gunnar19632000@... wrote: --- On Fri, 14/1/11, Chris Austin-Lane chris@... wrote: There is more cultural baggage attached with the church, so the times when recommending it

[Zen] Re: So what should I do?(to Steve/list)

2011-01-14 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: Steve, Then, lets form a tea party. Anthony LOL! Steve Current

[Zen] Re: So what should I do?(to Steve/list)

2011-01-15 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthyplay1@... wrote: *bows*   May I pour, then?   Be well.. k Hi Kristy. Sure! But I warn you, my cup is pretty full! I keep trying to empty it, but then I look and see that its full again with all sorts of preconceptions! You

[Zen] Re: tea party for anxiety attacks

2011-01-15 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel gunnar19632000@... wrote: Can I be the white rabbit?(..'Oh dear! Oh dear! I shall be too late!'..) Or how about the Mad Hatter? in peace/laughter Mel Hi Mel. Right here, right now, nobody late, nobody early! How many hats do you wear? Steve

[Zen] Re: Pure Land Buddhism, heaven and hell, Monkey etc(to Steve/list)

2011-01-15 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel gunnar19632000@... wrote: Hey Steve!   Question...   - Are you with this I've been hearing lately about called Pure Land Buddhism?   - I've come across some passage in some library book somewhere that the Chinese Buddhists believe that one

Re: [Zen] the death of the prince, vegetarianism?(to Chris/Kristy/list)

2011-01-15 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthyplay1@... wrote:   Thanks to Mel, Steve and Chris, for the interesting thread on the  Gospel of Thomas. I assume that is part of the Gnostics?   Kristy Hi Kristy. Yes. For an interesting comparison of The Gospel of Thomas and

[Zen] Re: Zen music

2011-01-17 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Dave P wookielifeday@... wrote: Is there such a thing as zen music? The only stuff I've encountered is the treacly chillout music that passes for meditation music. I *have* heard some John Cage, which I enjoy. Hi Dave. Yes, there is such a thing as Zen

[Zen] Re: Feeling a little down.

2011-01-17 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Dave P wookielifeday@... wrote: I'm not sure why I'm feeling this way, other than I read something that got me down because it was about the spiritual aspects of drugs, especially LSD. I know that taking LSD would be a very bad thing for me.I feel

Re: [Zen] the death of the prince, vegetarianism?(to Chris/Kristy/list)

2011-01-17 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: Every individual is at the type and level of consciousness that he/she possesses at the present time, and this may evolve with age. Is any of these positions 'better' or 'worse'? The 'rational' mind can always be dragged

[Zen] Re: Zen music

2011-01-17 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthyplay1@... wrote: Yes.. then add to it a horn honking from  the street, a siren in the background and a traffic helicopter overhead.  Its  a symphony. k Bravo! Encore! Current Book Discussion:

[Zen] Re: Toni Packer?

2011-01-17 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane chris@... wrote: Taunted again and again by the footnotes to try to make this list a book discussion group, I ask if any one has met, studied with, or read Toni Packer? She has an interesting history of being a follower of Philip Kapleau,

Re: [Zen] the death of the prince, vegetarianism?(to Chris/Kristy/list)

2011-01-17 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: The crux of this argument is not WHETHER you judge things to be good or bad, but HOW you judge things to be good or bad. If you use your intellect, rationality (discriminating mind) to judge things you are liable to be let

Re: [Zen] the death of the prince, vegetarianism?(to Chris/Kristy/list)

2011-01-17 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: The crux of this argument is not WHETHER you judge things to be good or bad, but HOW you judge things to be good or bad. If you use your intellect, rationality (discriminating mind) to judge things you are liable to be let

Re: [Zen] the death of the prince, vegetarianism?(to Chris/Kristy/list)

2011-01-17 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, SteveW eugnostos2000@... wrote: Here's a link to a video presentation by Jona Lehrer, based on the neurological work of Antonio Demasio, on how our value decisions are based on mostly unconscious emotional reactions. http://fora.tv/2010/01

[Zen] A Kung-An/Koan For The Group

2011-01-17 Thread SteveW
Hello. What do you think about this one from the Gateless Gate? Controlled or not controlled, the same dice shows two faces. Not controlled or controlled, both a grievous error. Steve Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are

Re: [Zen] the death of the prince, vegetarianism?(to Chris/Kristy/list)

2011-01-18 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: Deep-seated cultural memes, imbued into our minds in childhood, are almost impossible to detect and erase, the realization of Buddha Nature notwithstanding. --ED Hi ED. Yes. And not only cultural conditioning, but

Re: [Zen] the death of the prince, vegetarianism?(to Chris/Kristy/list)

2011-01-18 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: The intellectual mind-set of our society, to a significant extent, does appear to be somewhat deadened and out of touch with reality. On the other hand there is no evidence that realizing Buddha Nature makes a person

Re: [Zen] Feeling a little down.

2011-01-18 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Dave P wookielifeday@... wrote: Zazen has not lifted my mood, but it has made me more detached and analytical about my moods, and i can see where there is anger and clinging behind it. I see that my feeling upset about hearing about people on LSD comes

[Zen] Re: Toni Packer?

2011-01-18 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: Steve, Right on! Both one and two AND neither one nor two AND one AND two. --ED Hi ED. Yes. And of course this transcends logical thinking. But it can be intuitively apprehended. IMO. Steve

Re: [Zen] the death of the prince, vegetarianism?(to Chris/Kristy/list)

2011-01-18 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthyplay1@... wrote: Excellent comments, Steve..   The evidence does indeed point out that neueons that fire together--wire together.   As time now is short, I'll offer a web link for any here interested in listening to some relevant

Re: [Zen] the death of the prince, vegetarianism?(to Chris/Kristy/list)

2011-01-18 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: The intellectual mind-set of our society, to a significant extent, does appear to be somewhat deadened and out of touch with reality. On the other hand there is no evidence that realizing Buddha Nature makes a person

Re: [Zen] was the death of / now karma / re-birth

2011-01-19 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthyplay1@... wrote: Hi Anthony, JM / All,   I was just replying to your  note when I read JM's comments. I thought I might add some thoughts  about karma /rebirth.   As for killing my lover?  Not a chance! Is there a difference?

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

2011-01-20 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, shihogiri A.Sahal@... wrote: Hello everyone, I'm looking forward to some interesting conversations, tips and advice. So here's my first request for advice. I've been sitting morning, (shortly after getting up and dealing with my cats!) and evening

Re: [Zen] the death of the prince, vegetarianism?(to Chris/Kristy/list)

2011-01-20 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: Hi again, Steve, Right on! Experiencing kensho-satori generally takes intense practice over a long period of time, and so, from a long term perspective, the cultivation is gradual. From a short term perspective over

Re: [Zen] was the death of / now karma / re-birth

2011-01-20 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthyplay1@... wrote: Steve,   Reflecting, my heart  tells me to share something else. In my life experience, I have learned that enabling others to stay  in their own behaviors, addictions, bigotry, violence and the like, by soothing

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

2011-01-21 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anil Sahal A.Sahal@... wrote: Hi, pleased to meet you. Likewise. IMO, rather than sitting with the intention to not have thoughts arise, it is better to sit without any expectations at all. Who is relishing sitting? I think any human being

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

2011-01-21 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, A Sahal A.Sahal@... wrote: We are our brains and I can demonstrate that by removing bits of it until the person disappears. Unfortunately, this happens everyday as neuro-degenerative diseases turn intelligent people into vegetables. Hi again, Sahal.

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

2011-01-21 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: Steve, Thank you for all your fingers pointing to the moon. Enlightening remarks. But what do you see on the moon? A long advertisement entitled 'Just this'? Anthony Hi Anthony. What moon? I was pointing my fingers at the

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

2011-01-22 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: Steve,   If you point your fingers at the keyboard with a purpose, that purpose is the moon. If not, you have not learned the way of ancient zen masters, who pointed to the moon to educate people.   Anthony Hi Anthony.

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

2011-01-22 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, A Sahal A.Sahal@... wrote: Hi again, Sahal. Tell me, are you really a person? Did you appear with your brain and will you disappear someday when the brain dies? Yes. When I was born my brain was a muddled mess of too many neurones with very

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

2011-01-22 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: Who can say why fingers point or do not point?  Mind. Who is pointing? Mind. And who are these people that ancient zen masters wanted to educate, Mind. and do they really need to be educated? Mind decides.   Anthony

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

2011-01-22 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: This is a given in zen. Buddha Mind is ineffable. The moon is ineffable. The best you can do to communicate these things is to point to the moon. Pointing is attempting to communicate. All you can do is point and hope

[Zen] Re: Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-22 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.jmjm@... wrote: Good Day To All, My Teacher would say, the Order of Chan is Buddhist, but the witness of Chan is not. Chan is just a nickname for the entire universe, including the visible and the invisible,

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

2011-01-23 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, SteveW eugnostos2000@ wrote: --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@ wrote: This is a given in zen. Buddha Mind is ineffable. The moon is ineffable. The best you

[Zen] Re: Meditation Problem

2011-01-23 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: Whether fixated on the finger or fixated on pointing, it's all the Dance of Shiva. http://www.indyarocks.com/videos/Bharatanatyam-The-Dance-of-Shiva--DVD-1\ 351046

Re: [Zen] Mindfulness meditation training changes brain structure in 8 weeks

2011-01-24 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anil Sahal A.Sahal@... wrote: I first became interested in meditation and brain whilst attending the 'Neuroscience' conference in San Fransisco as few years ago in which the Dalai Lama was the key note speaker and offered us, with a big grin, the use of

Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-24 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Brett Corbin brettalancorbin@... wrote: Got me thinking on that one Ed. Brett http://www.pbase.com/brett1963 Hey, Brett, is the truth inside us all or are we all inside the truth? Steve      

Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-24 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Brett Corbin brettalancorbin@... wrote: Hi Steve, I think how I would answer that, is both. Brett http://www.pbase.com/brett1963 Hi Brett. Good answer, imo. Steve Current Book Discussion: any Zen

Re: [Zen] Mindfulness meditation training changes brain structure in 8 weeks

2011-01-24 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, A Sahal A.Sahal@... wrote: Hi Anil. Thank you. One more good reason to meditate! Say, in your opinion, is the relationship between brain area activations and states of consciousness causal or correlative? There's insufficient data for a

Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-24 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Brett Corbin brettalancorbin@... wrote: Before I started practicing meditation, I had hard time dealing with problems in my life.  The problem, what ever they were, would run through my mind over and over again, and I would talk about it over and over

[Zen] Re: Is Chan Buddhist?(to Kristy/Brett/list)

2011-01-24 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel gunnar19632000@... wrote: Everyday life is still something I struggle with despite the meditative practices. Nevertheless, I keep pursuing this path of mine Hi Mel. What do you struggle with, if I may ask? Steve

[Zen] Re: Impurity in practise(to Steve/list)

2011-01-24 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Mel gunnar19632000@... wrote: Hello Steve   I'm struggling with keeping my practise pure. I take part in zazen practise and read/study ZEN MIND BEGINNERS MIND, and yet I make myself impure by   - having so much desire for junk food and other

Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-25 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: Deborah and JMJM, I'll insert my comments about what I was taught in my Japanese Zen Buddhist training: --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.jmjm@ wrote: Hi Deborah, Thank you

[Zen] Re: Differences in Practice

2011-01-25 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.jmjm@... wrote: Thank you Bill. I have learned again. There is more in common in practice as well. Now, let me share with you the reasons for some of these requirement. Then perhaps you can share with me what you

[Zen] Re: Differences in Practice

2011-01-25 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.jmjm@... wrote: No problem, Steve. All comments are valid. All part of Chan. What we teach to reduce that issue, is to divert our focus onto the chakras. As we do that, less images pop up. When we practice

[Zen] Re: Differences in Practice

2011-01-25 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.jmjm@... wrote: Hi Steve, Within a month I hope, we will have a book titled like, 15 steps to benefit from Chan meditation. published through Amazon. I can throw you a digital copy, if you like... JM Be

Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-25 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: Steve, I agree with everything you have posted below and have in fact posted the same over and over in this forum for years. These are conclusions I arrived at myself, not ones I were taught - but as you say there are hints

[Zen] Re: Differences in Practice

2011-01-25 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Deborah Mingins taomtnsage1@... wrote: JMJM...I would like one too please. Thanks...Deborah                                 taomtnsage1@... Hi Deb. It looks very interesting. I think that both you and I will benefit from it

Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-26 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: Steve, Thank you for your mention of Pure Land Buddhism. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Land_Buddhism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Land_Buddhism ) Some three and a half decades ago I had decided that Zen was

Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-26 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Brett Corbin brettalancorbin@... wrote: Hi Steve, I have been reading a lot of the post here, and find them interesting, but have little to say about the subjects since I know very little about zen meditation.  I meditate daily but the terms used in this

Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-26 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Brett Corbin brettalancorbin@... wrote: Hi Steve, I have been reading a lot of the post here, and find them interesting, but have little to say about the subjects since I know very little about zen meditation.  I meditate daily but the terms used in this

Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-27 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Brett Corbin brettalancorbin@... wrote: Hi Steve, Thank you for taking the time to explain that to me.  I find it interesting.  Are people who practice Zen generally atheist, or do they see God just in a different way then other religions, or do people

[Zen] Re: Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-27 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: Steve,   Interesting that you advocate monistic idealism, which, according to Wikipedia, is the same as Yogacara's mind only theory, isn't it? If so, I ask you simple questions:   Is mind itself real or illusory? Is

Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-27 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Brett Corbin brettalancorbin@... wrote: Bill, Thank you for explanning that to me.  It seems to me that buddhism and Zen has almost as much division as christianity.  I guess it is just the nature of how things work.  It starts with a truth and then

[Zen] Re: Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-28 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: Steve, I am led to believe you are saying that mind is real. That is it exists, and not an illusion. But the object of mind is a reflection, so it is illusory. But what does the mind reflect? I was told when Asanga (not

Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-28 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: In truth, our Original Buddha-Nature is nothing that can be understood. It is glorious and mysterious peacefulness, and that is all that can be said. You, yourself, must awaken to it, fathoming its depths. That which is

[Zen] Re: Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-28 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: Steve,   I understand your argument in regard to zen and yogacara or other philosophy. When you are doing zazen, there is no point and it is irrelevant to discuss philosophy. But you don't spend 100% of you time sitting zen.

[Zen] Re: Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-01-29 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: Steve,   Keep up the good job. However, I don't believe you have burned your philosophy books, do you?   Anthony Hi Anthony. LOL! as a matter of fact, about half of them burned up in a house fire, and I gave the

Re: [Zen] Is Chan Buddhist?

2011-02-01 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: ED, The Noble Eightfold Path is a very good example of why I don't consider zen a subset of Buddhism. First of all to assert there are 8 items of conduct such as this borders on hubris. Also to proceed all of them with a

[Zen] Re: Eightfold Path

2011-02-01 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.jmjm@... wrote: Thank you, Steve. This is also my observation. The word practice, is translated from two Chinese words and they are trim/cultivate and execute/apply combined. Chan needs to be walked on both

[Zen] Re: Odd question about meat

2011-02-01 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Dave P wookielifeday@... wrote: I have been in treatment for OCD and some of my issues revolve around being contaminated by eating meat. I know that Buddhism has very conflicting views on meat, but how do you think I should approach this? How should I eat

[Zen] Re: Spock?

2011-02-01 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Dave P wookielifeday@... wrote: This is another strange question, but I've been watching a lot of Star Trek, and there's frequent mentioning of how the Vulcans are not actually unemotional, but simply observe their emotions and not let them control their

[Zen] Re: Spock?

2011-02-01 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Dana S. Leslie dsleslie@... wrote: Point of information, please: What are the Kleshas. I'm not familiar with that term. Thanks. Hi Dana. Klesha or Klesa is a Sanskrit term usually translated as Affliction or Defilement. It refers to negative mental

[Zen] Re: Zen and Tao.

2011-02-01 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, artist brettalancorbin@... wrote: I am reading Tao Te Ching by Lao tzu and was wondering If the Tao he writes about would be the same as Zen but with a different title. I may be totally off here, because I do not have a full understanding of Zen, but I

[Zen] Re: Zen and Tao.

2011-02-02 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: Brett, Of course it is the same. The 'truths' in all religions are the same. Some call it Tao, some Yahweh, some Allah, some Buddha, some might even call it Zen. Please remember Lao Tzu's first verse: The tao that can

[Zen] Re: Eightfold Path

2011-02-02 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: Steve, Thank you for releasing me from a constant fear of being attacked by enlightened beings. As regards 'tonglen', it is supposed to give away one's good luck, in exchange for taking others' bad luck. This is a great

[Zen] Re: Zen and Tao.

2011-02-02 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: Bill, You should twist Jesus' nose. He is the most dualistic, always speaking about heaven and hell. There is nothing in common between different religions. If you said so, you would be saying that we are all animals.

[Zen] Re: Eightfold Path

2011-02-02 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: As I was taught a long, long time ago, and as confirmed by wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonglen#cite_note-learn-7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonglen#cite_note-learn-7 ), Toglen has nothing to do with transfer

[Zen] Re: Zen and Tao.

2011-02-03 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: Steve,   The Gospel of Thomas is heretic, so should be banned. You must kill people you conquere, or face the wrath of Yahweh.   Anthony Hi Anthony. LOL! Current Book

[Zen] Re: Eightfold Path

2011-02-03 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: SteveW, my apologies if I came across a bit too emphatically. --ED Hi ED. My goodness, your reply was not in the least offensive! I really don't know anything about Vajrayana, just relaying stuff heard from my Tibetan

[Zen] Re: Eightfold Path

2011-02-03 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wuasg@... wrote: Steve,   A Tibetan monk (I don't remember who) was incarcerated, facing a torturing jailer. He practiced tonglen, giving away his good karma, in exchange for the jailer's bad deeds. After a while, the latter relented and gave

[Zen] Buddhist Personality Types

2011-02-03 Thread SteveW
Hello. I have personally found the theory of Buddhist Personality Types to be very useful in my practice. The Types are: Hate Type, Greed Type, Confusion Type, Discursive Type, Faith Type and Wisdom Type. This goes back to the Pali Canon and really isn't a Zen thing, but I was wondering if anyone

Re: [Zen] Buddhist Personality Types

2011-02-04 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthyplay1@... wrote: *bows*   I  can't offer anything useful.  But beware behavioral scientists.  They skew the  results.  Steve.. you are so wise in so many ways..   As you point out at times.. is it, - or not, illusory?  

[Zen] Re: Buddhist Personality Types

2011-02-04 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: Steve, Yes, I am interested in chatting about these ancient Buddhist personality temperaments and their application to practice. --ED ... the Buddhist personality types, a 1,600-year old system of typology set

[Zen] Re: Spock?

2011-02-04 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane chris@... wrote: I find the direction zen is leading me is not away from my feelings and toward logical thought, but towards an ability to thoroughly know my feelings without subsequently doing regrettable things. Feelings are inseparable

[Zen] Re: Buddhist Personality Types

2011-02-04 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: Hi Steve - No need to take any test. For at least 25 years I have been aware that I am of the same temperament type as you are. There has been a slight mellowing with age. ;-) --ED Hi ED. Oh, I think that there has

[Zen] Re: Buddhist Personality Types

2011-02-05 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: Hi Steve, Thank you so much for your insights. --ED PS: Here's another well-known classification of personality types based on three principal ones, and which I believe to be quite insightful:

Re: [Zen] Buddhist Personality Types

2011-02-05 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthyplay1@... wrote: Hi Steve,   Sorry for my delayed reply.. life stuff.  Perhaps thats an indicator  of my type?  As a health behavioral scientist, I want to thank you for these postings.  Sure beats the DSM.   Its so

[Zen] Re: Buddhist Personality Types

2011-02-06 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: Steve, Replace 'Hate type' with 'solid type' 'Greed type' with 'peculiar type', then, does the following make sense to you? --ED Hi ED. Yes, there do seem to be parallels. Solids also seem to share

[Zen] Re: Buddhist Personality Types

2011-02-06 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain healthyplay1@... wrote: Gentlemen,   People are not so uni-dimensional, or easily classified. I think this is a fine game-- like Clue.  But trying to sort this  way obscures clarity. Why  bother discussing illusion and duality, and

[Zen] Re: Spock?

2011-02-07 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Dana S. Leslie dsleslie3@... wrote: In 'zen' or 'Zen', it is believed that wisdom, compassion will emerge from the practice of shikantaza itself, and the experiencing of one's true nature. Read as a claim of empirical fact, I'm not sure if the above

[Zen] Re: Buddhist Personality Types

2011-02-07 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, seacrofter001 seacrofter001@... wrote: --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, SteveW eugnostos2000@ wrote: Hi ED. Yes, there do seem to be parallels. Solids also seem to share characteristics of what Buddhists call Discursive-Types. Yes

[Zen] Re: Zen and the art of happiness

2011-02-07 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, artist brettalancorbin@... wrote: I was wondering if anyone out there have read the book Zen and the art of happiness by Chris Prentiss, and wondered what people on this group think of what he is saying about quantum physics. Brett. Hi Brett. Haven't

[Zen] Re: Zen and the art of happiness

2011-02-07 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Brett Corbin brettalancorbin@... wrote: Hi Steve, In the book he refers a lot to a movie called, What the bleep do we (k)now.  The movie is about quantum physics and talks about how are beliefs make our reality, and how they it fits in to spiritual

[Zen] Re: Zen and the art of happiness

2011-02-08 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter001@... wrote: I believe that the first of such-like works was the 1953 book: Zen in the Art of Archery by Eugen Herrigel, a German professor of philosophy who spent several years in Japan developing a zen mind through the zen art of

[Zen] Re: visualization Chris/ Steve.

2011-02-10 Thread SteveW
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Brett Corbin brettalancorbin@... wrote: I think you guys are right, I do not practice traditional Zen.  But I do meditate to seek enlightenment.  I also use my meditation to calm myself, receive guidance, and to ponder my reality.  Visualization in my

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