[Zen] Ego, dharma, search, etc.

[Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明]

 Hi All,

Just got this from one of our practitioners.  I translate some phrases 
which I enjoyed for your reference... (warning... all translations are 
incomplete..)


Written by FaRon Chan Master of NiuTou Mountain... Later passed to Japan 
became TianDai Lineage.

---
When no notion rises, exists no opinion.
Originally no dharma, who's discussing or refining.
No beginning no end, nothing when search.
When no action, naturally all unfold.

While heart is impure, all dharma hinder.
Ego roams, analyzing falsehood.
.
Obtain mental calmness, practice with no mind.
-
Guard mental calmness, still is sick.  Let go of birth and death is true 
nature.


*《牛頭山初祖法融 禪師心銘》***

【唐】法融禪師撰 注：此經出自《大藏經》第51卷

心 性不生，何須知見。 本無一法，誰論熏煉。
往返無端，追尋不見。 一切莫作，明寂自現。
前際如空，知處迷宗。 分明照境，隨照冥蒙。
一心有滯，諸法不通。 去來自爾，胡假推窮。
生無生相，生照一同。 欲得心淨，無心用功。
縱橫無照，最為微妙。 知法無知，無知知要。
將心守靜，猶未離病。 生死忘懷，即是本性。

--
Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can
http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com
http://www.heartchan.org

Re: [Zen] EGO

[Ari]

  
Jody:
 
Why did you hate yourself?.  Where did you learnt to hate yourself?.  It sounds 
as a very extreme negative emotion to have towards oneself. Very glad to hear 
that the readings of the Dalai Lama helped you to overcome the hatred for 
yourself.  

 
Thanks for writing
Mayka 
 
*Let's use an example.  My father and children at school used to make fun of my 
butt.  They would call me bubble butt, because my butt protrudes out further 
than most.  This was the era where Brooke Shields was the great beauty and she 
had no butt, and not much of a figure. Just straight. 

 
*I was so obsessed with my butt, and hated my body so much, that when I could 
afford it, at age 35 I had liposuction.  But liposuction does mostly the sides 
of the butt and not the protruding part, which is mostly muscle.  Even now, I 
am 
grateful that I do not have the kind of butt I used to have, and no longer have 
to be ashamed of it anymore. 

 
*Then, of course, comes along Beyonce Knowles and Jennifer Lopez with huge 
butts, and suddenly butts are all popular!  I am so happy now that I have the 
butt I have, because now it's socially acceptable. 

 
*But yes, that is self hatred to a degree where you are paying someone to cut 
into your body and remove your flesh.  

 
*I think other women, the rate of getting breast augmentation is very high. 
They 
feel they are not like women, because their breasts are not huge, and so, go 
out 
and get breasts as soon as they are able, like 18, before they've even had a 
chance to fill in.  I knew a woman like this. She was obsessed with her small 
breasts, finally got her breast augmentation which she said was more painful 
than childbirth but now is happy as she is a 36C. 

 
*I think women are taught to hate themselves, in the US, starting at around 
ages 
8 - 10.
 
Best,
Ari


--- On Fri, 13/8/10, Jody W. Ianuzzi j...@thewhitehats.com wrote:


From: Jody W. Ianuzzi j...@thewhitehats.com
Subject: RE: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 13 August, 2010, 15:50


  
Hello Mayka,

I used to feel the same way. I actually hated myself. Then I was reading a
book by the Dalai Lama and he said that he found the whole concept of people
hating themselves to be so alien and he couldn't understand it at all. 

I started to really think about that and I realized how he was so right. I
was able to break through my own self hate and now I actually LIKE myself.
Of course, when you like yourself you like everyone around you a lot more
too.

JODY

 

Re: [Zen] EGO

[Ari]

  
Hello Mayka,

I used to feel the same way. I actually hated myself. Then I was reading a
book by the Dalai Lama and he said that he found the whole concept of people
hating themselves to be so alien and he couldn't understand it at all. 

*Yes, I think I read that same book.  I had a really abysmal childhood full of 
abuse, and many years later, we can find ourselves hating ourselves because 
hate 
is all we learned from our family of origin. It's hard to love yourself. 

I started to really think about that and I realized how he was so right. I
was able to break through my own self hate and now I actually LIKE myself.
Of course, when you like yourself you like everyone around you a lot more
too.

*Right, Jody!  I find loving myself to be a hard thing to do, but must be done 
if 

we are to grow spiritually and personally. 

JODY

RE: [Zen] EGO

[Maria Lopez]

Jody:
 
Why did you hate yourself?.  Where did you learnt to hate yourself?.  It sounds 
as a very extreme negative emotion to have towards oneself. Very glad to hear 
that the readings of the Dalai Lama helped you to overcome the hatred for 
yourself.  
 
Thanks for writing
Mayka
 


--- On Fri, 13/8/10, Jody W. Ianuzzi j...@thewhitehats.com wrote:


From: Jody W. Ianuzzi j...@thewhitehats.com
Subject: RE: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 13 August, 2010, 15:50


  



Hello Mayka,

I used to feel the same way. I actually hated myself. Then I was reading a
book by the Dalai Lama and he said that he found the whole concept of people
hating themselves to be so alien and he couldn't understand it at all. 

I started to really think about that and I realized how he was so right. I
was able to break through my own self hate and now I actually LIKE myself.
Of course, when you like yourself you like everyone around you a lot more
too.

JODY

Re: [Zen] EGO

[Maria Lopez]

ED;
 
That hating must be in American Chistians, not in heatlhy Cristians from 
Europe.  (though there are always the crazy ones all over the world) .  I was 
brought up as a catholic and never hated myself. Thought there was a lack of 
proper education how to love oneselves and others at the same time.  Do you 
know that some years ago I had an interesting conversation with a retired, very 
well educated Jesuit Priest?.  Our conversation gave him inspiration to create 
several sermons all that week.  
 
Mayka


--- On Fri, 13/8/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 13 August, 2010, 18:19


  





This 'hating oneself' - or others - is a very Judeo-Christian attitude
that permeates our culture.

This identification of the (non-existent?) self with our thoughts and
feelings, like the smell of garlic, can be quite difficult to eliminate.

And, of course, that's where zazen comes in handy.

--ED

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jody W. Ianuzzi j...@... wrote:

 Hello Mayka,

 I used to feel the same way. I actually hated myself. Then I was
reading a
 book by the Dalai Lama and he said that he found the whole concept of
people
 hating themselves to be so alien and he couldn't understand it at all.

 I started to really think about that and I realized how he was so
right. I
 was able to break through my own self hate and now I actually LIKE
myself.
 Of course, when you like yourself you like everyone around you a lot
more
 too.

 JODY

Re: [Zen] EGO

[Maria Lopez]

JMJM;
 
To me the most beneficial from a retreat is the practicing in togetherness with 
other people.  All sense of separateness dissapears during a retreat. I'm 
intrigue about the cleanse of the Chi.  Wouldn't mind to attend this retreat 
you are announcing.
Mayka
 
 

--- On Sat, 14/8/10, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com wrote:


From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 14 August, 2010, 17:49


  



Dear Mayka,

Thank you for your sharing.  Yet, as you know, nothing is permanent, good or 
bad.  It is all cause and effect.

Please let me elaborate on your the energy of the practice for the forum.

Over the labor day weekend, we will have a three day retreat in Saratoga, CA.  
Some of our practitioners likes the talk.  Some of our practitioners likes the 
warmth of getting together.  Some of our practitioners likes the sharing.  But 
all in all, retreat in our school is really about chi-based cleansing.

The power of an enlightened Master transmits the power of longevity, the power 
of wisdom and the power loving kindness through his disciples.  This retreat of 
ours is the first time that we have three ordained teachers participating.  It 
will benefit all practitioners in a formless way.

By practitioner, I mean those who meditates daily.  Not studying daily.  Not 
joking around daily.  But sit down, shut up, stop thinking daily.  When our 
hearts are pure, we resonate.

JMJM

On 8/14/2010 2:11 AM, Maria Lopez wrote: 
  






JMJM;
 
If I am so upset and somehow angry at the fact that I couldn't make it to TNH 
events in the UK is because I am unable to keep the discipline of daily sitting 
down.  Those retreats are very helpful and supportive towards recharging the 
energy of the practice.  I have to do everything in this path on my own and by 
internet...So Sad
 
Mayka
 
 
--- On Sat, 14/8/10, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com wrote:


From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 14 August, 2010, 4:40


  

Wow Mayka.  Thank you.  As my Master would say, we are all forms generated by 
the same singular life force of the universe.  We are all equal, the same and 
one with the One.

Whatever feelings we have about this form of ours are temporary, relative and 
unrelated to the One.  

When we are able to carry the calmness we cultivated during meditation into our 
daily lives, this calmness shall detach our self-nature from all emotions.  To 
some of us this may sound difficult.  

Yet, I have witnessed that it can be achieved if we meditate, for one hour 
daily at same time and same place, with a chi based method as taught by our 
school.

Chan is an experience based on meditation.  Unless we meditate, it would be 
hard for us to surpass our habits, i.e. physical habits, mental habits, and 
spiritual habits.

JM



On 8/13/2010 1:14 AM, Maria Lopez wrote: 
  






 
In addition something important and honoring our JMJM and his tradition:
 
Let's love oneselves in syncronitation with the universe.

--- On Fri, 13/8/10, Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com wrote:


From: Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 13 August, 2010, 9:02


  






 Ari:
You say: Maybe I am too harsh in my practice. I know I have no love for 
mysellf and am harsh on myself almost all the time.  I'm trying to work on 
loving myself, because I can't love anyone else until I have love for myself.  
In my personal opinion This statement you've made it makes you by itself the 
perfect  asset to approach the Buddha Teachings.  Not many people have this 
realization about themselves and yet the real root of our suffering is the lack 
of love towards oneselves.  There is also often a misunderstanding about this 
teaching of loving oneselves or as Bill would more or less say: Put the mask 
of oxygene first in you and once you're safe  help others do it the same This 
is far of being a selfish statement, on the contrary is a very 
compassionate statement  for as long as one has realiced the consecuences 
and impact whatever is in us has over oneselves,  all our surroundings and the 
whole universe.  When a person is
 unhappy makes every one around her/him also unhappy. When a person is happy it 
happens the same.  So here the love towards oneselves is based in the healthy 
and altruistic principle of I release the suffering in me so I can realease 
the suffering all around me.  
 
Completely agree with you and yes, loving oneselves is the hardest, 
difficult thing to do.  What it makes difficult this task is that in order to 
love oneselves we have to work extremely hard on it.  We have to face what is 
in us and that not always is easy.  In fact we ideally need a Teacher in order 
of doing so as the ego gets on the way and will find millions ways of 
deceiving us
 
Actions

Re: [Zen] EGO

[Maria Lopez]

JMJM;
 
I'm on the other side of the world and
 
Mayka
. 
--- On Sat, 14/8/10, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com wrote:


From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 14 August, 2010, 18:32


  



Hi Mayka，

Here is the link..    http://dharma.heartchan.org/2010-retreat/

Let me know if you have any question.

Donald

On 8/14/2010 10:22 AM, Maria Lopez wrote: 
  






JMJM;
 
To me the most beneficial from a retreat is the practicing in togetherness with 
other people.  All sense of separateness dissapears during a retreat. I'm 
intrigue about the cleanse of the Chi.  Wouldn't mind to attend this retreat 
you are announcing.
Mayka
 
 

--- On Sat, 14/8/10, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com wrote:


From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 14 August, 2010, 17:49


  

Dear Mayka,

Thank you for your sharing.  Yet, as you know, nothing is permanent, good or 
bad.  It is all cause and effect.

Please let me elaborate on your the energy of the practice for the forum.

Over the labor day weekend, we will have a three day retreat in Saratoga, CA.  
Some of our practitioners likes the talk.  Some of our practitioners likes the 
warmth of getting together.  Some of our practitioners likes the sharing.  But 
all in all, retreat in our school is really about chi-based cleansing.

The power of an enlightened Master transmits the power of longevity, the power 
of wisdom and the power loving kindness through his disciples.  This retreat of 
ours is the first time that we have three ordained teachers participating.  It 
will benefit all practitioners in a formless way.

By practitioner, I mean those who meditates daily.  Not studying daily.  Not 
joking around daily.  But sit down, shut up, stop thinking daily.  When our 
hearts are pure, we resonate.

JMJM

On 8/14/2010 2:11 AM, Maria Lopez wrote: 
  






JMJM;
 
If I am so upset and somehow angry at the fact that I couldn't make it to TNH 
events in the UK is because I am unable to keep the discipline of daily sitting 
down.  Those retreats are very helpful and supportive towards recharging the 
energy of the practice.  I have to do everything in this path on my own and by 
internet...So Sad
 
Mayka
 
 
--- On Sat, 14/8/10, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com wrote:


From: Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 chan.j...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 14 August, 2010, 4:40


  

Wow Mayka.  Thank you.  As my Master would say, we are all forms generated by 
the same singular life force of the universe.  We are all equal, the same and 
one with the One.

Whatever feelings we have about this form of ours are temporary, relative and 
unrelated to the One.  

When we are able to carry the calmness we cultivated during meditation into our 
daily lives, this calmness shall detach our self-nature from all emotions.  To 
some of us this may sound difficult.  

Yet, I have witnessed that it can be achieved if we meditate, for one hour 
daily at same time and same place, with a chi based method as taught by our 
school.

Chan is an experience based on meditation.  Unless we meditate, it would be 
hard for us to surpass our habits, i.e. physical habits, mental habits, and 
spiritual habits.

JM



On 8/13/2010 1:14 AM, Maria Lopez wrote: 
  






 
In addition something important and honoring our JMJM and his tradition:
 
Let's love oneselves in syncronitation with the universe.

--- On Fri, 13/8/10, Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com wrote:


From: Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 13 August, 2010, 9:02


  






 Ari:
You say: Maybe I am too harsh in my practice. I know I have no love for 
mysellf and am harsh on myself almost all the time.  I'm trying to work on 
loving myself, because I can't love anyone else until I have love for myself.  
In my personal opinion This statement you've made it makes you by itself the 
perfect  asset to approach the Buddha Teachings.  Not many people have this 
realization about themselves and yet the real root of our suffering is the lack 
of love towards oneselves.  There is also often a misunderstanding about this 
teaching of loving oneselves or as Bill would more or less say: Put the mask 
of oxygene first in you and once you're safe  help others do it the same This 
is far of being a selfish statement, on the contrary is a very 
compassionate statement  for as long as one has realiced the consecuences 
and impact whatever is in us has over oneselves,  all our surroundings and the 
whole universe.  When a person is
 unhappy makes every one around her/him also unhappy. When a person is happy it 
happens the same.  So here the love towards oneselves is based in the healthy 
and altruistic principle of I release the suffering in me

Re: [Zen] EGO

[Maria Lopez]

 Ari:
You say: Maybe I am too harsh in my practice. I know I have no love for 
mysellf and am harsh on myself almost all the time.  I'm trying to work on 
loving myself, because I can't love anyone else until I have love for myself.  
In my personal opinion This statement you've made it makes you by itself the 
perfect  asset to approach the Buddha Teachings.  Not many people have this 
realization about themselves and yet the real root of our suffering is the lack 
of love towards oneselves.  There is also often a misunderstanding about this 
teaching of loving oneselves or as Bill would more or less say: Put the mask 
of oxygene first in you and once you're safe  help others do it the same This 
is far of being a selfish statement, on the contrary is a very 
compassionate statement  for as long as one has realiced the consecuences 
and impact whatever is in us has over oneselves,  all our surroundings and the 
whole universe.  When a person is
 unhappy makes every one around her/him also unhappy. When a person is happy it 
happens the same.  So here the love towards oneselves is based in the healthy 
and altruistic principle of I release the suffering in me so I can realease 
the suffering all around me.  
 
Completely agree with you and yes, loving oneselves is the hardest, 
difficult thing to do.  What it makes difficult this task is that in order to 
love oneselves we have to work extremely hard on it.  We have to face what is 
in us and that not always is easy.  In fact we ideally need a Teacher in order 
of doing so as the ego gets on the way and will find millions ways of 
deceiving us
 
Actions of compassion in all directions will help a lot.  I've found compassion 
actions be like the main vitamin supplement for keeping me truly alive.  
 
Welcome to the real dharma of the Buddha.
 
Mayka 
 
 
 

--- On Thu, 12/8/10, Ari aelindem...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: Ari aelindem...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 12 August, 2010, 16:03


  







  






Ari:
 
Poor thing.  Sorry to hear about such an horrific dream.  I wonder if it means 
that you are going under an intense change in your life. Not always the meaning 
of unpleasant dreams is negative and sometimes they mean well on the contrary 
as Bill was pointing out in his mail. Have you ever to face your own dream 
while dreaming?.   If you could do that whatever is there will be resolved 
during the dream.  I also agree with Anthony advice about be relax and very 
kind to yourself while practicing.  Slowly, slowly.  No rush. No expetations.  
We go nowhere as we are already arrived in the here and the now, the chopper is 
chopped!. 
 
A hug
Mayka
 
Thank you, Makya.  No changes in my life.  Same old boring stuff.  My husband 
also  has had nightmares, and after finding this out, I no longer give it much 
energy.  I may have been thinking of the tornado and how the neighbor family 
was chopped up.  Maybe I am too harsh in my practice. I know I have no love 
for mysellf and am harsh on myself almost all the time.  I'm trying to work on 
loving myself, because I can't love anyone else until I have love for myself. 
 
Thank you for your kindly post and your hug :-)
 
Best,
Ari
 

--- On Tue, 10/8/10, Ari aelindemann@ yahoo.com wrote:


From: Ari aelindemann@ yahoo.com
Subject: [Zen] EGO
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, 10 August, 2010, 20:45


  



Dear all, 
 
Recently I went to a spiritual retreat, and decided to intensify my meditation 
practice and other aspects of having a mindful life. 
 
I was then beset by one of the  worst nightmares I've ever had, where I was 
being chopped to bits by a hacksaw. The last line in the nightmare was and 
it's not a dream this time at which I woke up, to, indeed find that it was a 
dream. 
 
There is nothing so drastic in my personal life. My personal life is pretty 
mundane with not many conflicts at the moment. 
 
I wonder if Ego sent me the dream, to keep me from intensifying my practice?  
There have been other times in the past where I would get nightmares right 
after I had determined to intensify my practice. 
 
ANY opinions, welcome. 
 
I'm going to go about my meditation, and not let the dream freak me out, but 
really, would not like to have another one! 
 
Best,
Ari

Re: [Zen] EGO

[Maria Lopez]

 
In addition something important and honoring our JMJM and his tradition:
 
Let's love oneselves in syncronitation with the universe.

--- On Fri, 13/8/10, Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com wrote:


From: Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 13 August, 2010, 9:02


  








 Ari:
You say: Maybe I am too harsh in my practice. I know I have no love for 
mysellf and am harsh on myself almost all the time.  I'm trying to work on 
loving myself, because I can't love anyone else until I have love for myself.  
In my personal opinion This statement you've made it makes you by itself the 
perfect  asset to approach the Buddha Teachings.  Not many people have this 
realization about themselves and yet the real root of our suffering is the lack 
of love towards oneselves.  There is also often a misunderstanding about this 
teaching of loving oneselves or as Bill would more or less say: Put the mask 
of oxygene first in you and once you're safe  help others do it the same This 
is far of being a selfish statement, on the contrary is a very 
compassionate statement  for as long as one has realiced the consecuences 
and impact whatever is in us has over oneselves,  all our surroundings and the 
whole universe.  When a person is
 unhappy makes every one around her/him also unhappy. When a person is happy it 
happens the same.  So here the love towards oneselves is based in the healthy 
and altruistic principle of I release the suffering in me so I can realease 
the suffering all around me.  
 
Completely agree with you and yes, loving oneselves is the hardest, 
difficult thing to do.  What it makes difficult this task is that in order to 
love oneselves we have to work extremely hard on it.  We have to face what is 
in us and that not always is easy.  In fact we ideally need a Teacher in order 
of doing so as the ego gets on the way and will find millions ways of 
deceiving us
 
Actions of compassion in all directions will help a lot.  I've found compassion 
actions be like the main vitamin supplement for keeping me truly alive.  
 
Welcome to the real dharma of the Buddha.
 
Mayka 
 
 
 

--- On Thu, 12/8/10, Ari aelindem...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: Ari aelindem...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 12 August, 2010, 16:03


  





  






Ari:
 
Poor thing.  Sorry to hear about such an horrific dream.  I wonder if it means 
that you are going under an intense change in your life. Not always the meaning 
of unpleasant dreams is negative and sometimes they mean well on the contrary 
as Bill was pointing out in his mail. Have you ever to face your own dream 
while dreaming?.   If you could do that whatever is there will be resolved 
during the dream.  I also agree with Anthony advice about be relax and very 
kind to yourself while practicing.  Slowly, slowly.  No rush. No expetations.  
We go nowhere as we are already arrived in the here and the now, the chopper is 
chopped!. 
 
A hug
Mayka
 
Thank you, Makya.  No changes in my life.  Same old boring stuff.  My husband 
also  has had nightmares, and after finding this out, I no longer give it much 
energy.  I may have been thinking of the tornado and how the neighbor family 
was chopped up.  Maybe I am too harsh in my practice. I know I have no love 
for mysellf and am harsh on myself almost all the time.  I'm trying to work on 
loving myself, because I can't love anyone else until I have love for myself. 
 
Thank you for your kindly post and your hug :-)
 
Best,
Ari
 

--- On Tue, 10/8/10, Ari aelindemann@ yahoo.com wrote:


From: Ari aelindemann@ yahoo.com
Subject: [Zen] EGO
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, 10 August, 2010, 20:45


  



Dear all, 
 
Recently I went to a spiritual retreat, and decided to intensify my meditation 
practice and other aspects of having a mindful life. 
 
I was then beset by one of the  worst nightmares I've ever had, where I was 
being chopped to bits by a hacksaw. The last line in the nightmare was and 
it's not a dream this time at which I woke up, to, indeed find that it was a 
dream. 
 
There is nothing so drastic in my personal life. My personal life is pretty 
mundane with not many conflicts at the moment. 
 
I wonder if Ego sent me the dream, to keep me from intensifying my practice?  
There have been other times in the past where I would get nightmares right 
after I had determined to intensify my practice. 
 
ANY opinions, welcome. 
 
I'm going to go about my meditation, and not let the dream freak me out, but 
really, would not like to have another one! 
 
Best,
Ari

RE: [Zen] EGO

[Jody W. Ianuzzi]

Hello Mayka,

I used to feel the same way.  I actually hated myself.  Then I was reading a
book by the Dalai Lama and he said that he found the whole concept of people
hating themselves to be so alien and he couldn't understand it at all.  

I started to really think about that and I realized how he was so right.  I
was able to break through my own self hate and now I actually LIKE myself.
Of course, when you like yourself you like everyone around you a lot more
too.

JODY





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Re: [Zen] EGO

[ED]

This 'hating oneself' - or others - is a very Judeo-Christian attitude
that permeates our culture.

This identification of the (non-existent?) self with our thoughts and
feelings, like the smell of garlic, can be quite difficult to eliminate.

And, of course,  that's where zazen comes in handy.

--ED



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jody W. Ianuzzi j...@... wrote:

 Hello Mayka,

 I used to feel the same way. I actually hated myself. Then I was
reading a
 book by the Dalai Lama and he said that he found the whole concept of
people
 hating themselves to be so alien and he couldn't understand it at all.

 I started to really think about that and I realized how he was so
right. I
 was able to break through my own self hate and now I actually LIKE
myself.
 Of course, when you like yourself you like everyone around you a lot
more
 too.

 JODY








Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
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RE: [Zen] EGO

[Jody W. Ianuzzi]

Hello Ed,

Yes, it is the whole 'Original Sin' idea.  You have to feel guilty for
existing.

JODY

-Original Message-
From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of ED
Sent: Friday, August 13, 2010 1:20 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO





This 'hating oneself' - or others - is a very Judeo-Christian attitude
that permeates our culture.

This identification of the (non-existent?) self with our thoughts and
feelings, like the smell of garlic, can be quite difficult to eliminate.

And, of course,  that's where zazen comes in handy.

--ED



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jody W. Ianuzzi j...@... wrote:

 Hello Mayka,

 I used to feel the same way. I actually hated myself. Then I was
reading a
 book by the Dalai Lama and he said that he found the whole concept of
people
 hating themselves to be so alien and he couldn't understand it at all.

 I started to really think about that and I realized how he was so
right. I
 was able to break through my own self hate and now I actually LIKE
myself.
 Of course, when you like yourself you like everyone around you a lot
more
 too.

 JODY








Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links








Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Re: [Zen] EGO

[Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明]

 Wow Mayka.  Thank you.  As my Master would say, we are all forms 
generated by the same singular life force of the universe.  We are all 
equal, the same and one with the One.


Whatever feelings we have about this form of ours are temporary, 
relative and unrelated to the One.


When we are able to carry the calmness we cultivated during meditation 
into our daily lives, this calmness shall detach our self-nature from 
all emotions.  To some of us this may sound difficult.


Yet, I have witnessed that it can be achieved if we meditate, for one 
hour daily at same time and same place, with a chi based method as 
taught by our school.


Chan is an experience based on meditation.  Unless we meditate, it would 
be hard for us to surpass our habits, i.e. physical habits, mental 
habits, and spiritual habits.


JM



On 8/13/2010 1:14 AM, Maria Lopez wrote:


*In addition something important and honoring our JMJM and his tradition:*
**
*Let's love oneselves in syncronitation with the universe.
*
--- On *Fri, 13/8/10, Maria Lopez /flordel...@btinternet.com/* wrote:


From: Maria Lopez flordel...@btinternet.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 13 August, 2010, 9:02

 Ari:
*You say: Maybe I am too harsh in my practice. I know I have no
love for mysellf and am harsh on myself almost all the time.  I'm
trying to work on loving myself, because I can't love anyone else
until I have love for myself.*  In my personal opinion This
statement you've made it makes you by itself the perfect  asset to
approach the Buddha Teachings.  Not many people have this
realization about themselves and yet the real root of our
suffering is the lack of love towards oneselves.  There is also
often a misunderstanding about this teaching of loving oneselves
or as Bill would more or less say: Put the mask of oxygene first
in you and once you're safe  help others do it the same This is
far of being a selfish statement, on the contrary is a very
compassionate statement  for as long as one has realiced the
consecuences and impact whatever is in us has over oneselves,  all
our surroundings and the whole universe.  When a person is unhappy
makes every one around her/him also unhappy. When a person is
happy it happens the same.  So here the love towards oneselves is
based in the healthy and altruistic principle of I release the
suffering in me so I can realease the suffering all around me.
Completely agree with you and yes, loving oneselves is the
hardest, difficult thing to do.  What it makes difficult this task
is that in order to love oneselves we have to work extremely hard
on it.  We have to face what is in us and that not always is
easy.  In fact we ideally need a Teacher in order of doing so as
the ego gets on the way and will find millions ways of
deceiving us
Actions of compassion in all directions will help a lot.  I've
found compassion actions be like the main vitamin supplement for
keeping me truly alive.
Welcome to the real dharma of the Buddha.
Mayka

--- On *Thu, 12/8/10, Ari /aelindem...@yahoo.com/* wrote:


From: Ari aelindem...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 12 August, 2010, 16:03


Ari:
Poor thing.  Sorry to hear about such an horrific dream.  I
wonder if it means that you are going under an intense change
in your life. Not always the meaning of unpleasant dreams is
negative and sometimes they mean well on the contrary as Bill
was pointing out in his mail. Have you ever to face your own
dream while dreaming?.   If you could do that whatever is
there will be resolved during the dream.  I also agree with
Anthony advice about be relax and very kind to yourself while
practicing.  Slowly, slowly.  No rush. No expetations.  We go
nowhere as we are already arrived in the here and the now, the
chopper is chopped!.
A hug
Mayka
Thank you, Makya.  No changes in my life.  Same old boring
stuff.  My husband also  has had nightmares, and after finding
this out, I no longer give it much energy.  I may have been
thinking of the tornado and how the neighbor family was
chopped up.  Maybe I am too harsh in my practice. I know I
have no love for mysellf and am harsh on myself almost all the
time.  I'm trying to work on loving myself, because I can't
love anyone else until I have love for myself.
Thank you for your kindly post and your hug :-)
Best,
Ari

--- On *Tue, 10/8/10, Ari /aelindemann@ yahoo.com
http://yahoo.com//* wrote:


From: Ari aelindemann@ yahoo.com
Subject: [Zen] EGO
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com http://ps.com

Re: [Zen] EGO

[Maria Lopez]

Ari:
 
Poor thing.  Sorry to hear about such an horrific dream.  I wonder if it means 
that you are going under an intense change in your life. Not always the meaning 
of unpleasant dreams is negative and sometimes they mean well on the contrary 
as Bill was pointing out in his mail. Have you ever to face your own dream 
while dreaming?.   If you could do that whatever is there will be resolved 
during the dream.  I also agree with Anthony advice about be relax and very 
kind to yourself while practicing.  Slowly, slowly.  No rush. No expetations.  
We go nowhere as we are already arrived in the here and the now, the chopper is 
chopped!. 
 
A hug
Mayka
 

--- On Tue, 10/8/10, Ari aelindem...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: Ari aelindem...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 10 August, 2010, 20:45


  





Dear all, 
 
Recently I went to a spiritual retreat, and decided to intensify my meditation 
practice and other aspects of having a mindful life. 
 
I was then beset by one of the  worst nightmares I've ever had, where I was 
being chopped to bits by a hacksaw. The last line in the nightmare was and 
it's not a dream this time at which I woke up, to, indeed find that it was a 
dream. 
 
There is nothing so drastic in my personal life. My personal life is pretty 
mundane with not many conflicts at the moment. 
 
I wonder if Ego sent me the dream, to keep me from intensifying my practice?  
There have been other times in the past where I would get nightmares right 
after I had determined to intensify my practice. 
 
ANY opinions, welcome. 
 
I'm going to go about my meditation, and not let the dream freak me out, but 
really, would not like to have another one! 
 
Best,
Ari

Re: [Zen] EGO

[Ari]

  
Ari:
 
Poor thing.  Sorry to hear about such an horrific dream.  I wonder if it means 
that you are going under an intense change in your life. Not always the meaning 
of unpleasant dreams is negative and sometimes they mean well on the contrary 
as 
Bill was pointing out in his mail. Have you ever to face your own dream while 
dreaming?.   If you could do that whatever is there will be resolved during the 
dream.  I also agree with Anthony advice about be relax and very kind to 
yourself while practicing.  Slowly, slowly.  No rush. No expetations.  We go 
nowhere as we are already arrived in the here and the now, the chopper is 
chopped!. 

 
A hug
Mayka
 
Thank you, Makya.  No changes in my life.  Same old boring stuff.  My husband 
also  has had nightmares, and after finding this out, I no longer give it much 
energy.  I may have been thinking of the tornado and how the neighbor family 
was 
chopped up.  Maybe I am too harsh in my practice. I know I have no love for 
mysellf and am harsh on myself almost all the time.  I'm trying to work on 
loving myself, because I can't love anyone else until I have love for myself. 

 
Thank you for your kindly post and your hug :-)
 
Best,
Ari


--- On Tue, 10/8/10, Ari aelindemann@ yahoo.com wrote:


From: Ari aelindemann@ yahoo.com
Subject: [Zen] EGO
To: zen_fo...@yahoogrou ps.com
Date: Tuesday, 10 August, 2010, 20:45


  
Dear all, 

Recently I went to a spiritual retreat, and decided to intensify my meditation 
practice and other aspects of having a mindful life. 


I was then beset by one of the  worst nightmares I've ever had, where I was 
being chopped to bits by a hacksaw. The last line in the nightmare was and 
it's 
not a dream this time at which I woke up, to, indeed find that it was a 
dream. 


There is nothing so drastic in my personal life. My personal life is pretty 
mundane with not many conflicts at the moment. 


I wonder if Ego sent me the dream, to keep me from intensifying my practice?  
There have been other times in the past where I would get nightmares right 
after 
I had determined to intensify my practice. 


ANY opinions, welcome. 

I'm going to go about my meditation, and not let the dream freak me out, but 
really, would not like to have another one! 


Best,
Ari 

RE: [Zen] EGO

[BillSmart]

Ari,

 

I have dreams when I sleep and some are 'scary', but I just write them off
as dreams and go on from there.  I don't try to 'figure out' WHY I've dreamt
something or what I could do to prevent the dream reoccurring.  That is a
big, big topic for psychoanalysts though.

 

What you might do if you want to rationalize your dream is to consider that
it might be only symbolic.  Maybe the cutting-up/killing of your body is
really the dismembering of your illusory concept of 'self'.  That of course
would be a good thing - in my opinion.  Maybe you could put a positive spin
on it like that and see it as a sign your meditation practice is working.

 

That's all I can think of right now.Bill!

 

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Ari
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 2:46 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Zen] EGO

 

  

Dear all, 

 

Recently I went to a spiritual retreat, and decided to intensify my
meditation practice and other aspects of having a mindful life. 

 

I was then beset by one of the  worst nightmares I've ever had, where I was
being chopped to bits by a hacksaw. The last line in the nightmare was and
it's not a dream this time at which I woke up, to, indeed find that it was
a dream. 

 

There is nothing so drastic in my personal life. My personal life is pretty
mundane with not many conflicts at the moment. 

 

I wonder if Ego sent me the dream, to keep me from intensifying my practice?
There have been other times in the past where I would get nightmares right
after I had determined to intensify my practice. 

 

ANY opinions, welcome. 

 

I'm going to go about my meditation, and not let the dream freak me out, but
really, would not like to have another one! 

 

Best,

Ari





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database 5356 (20100810) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

Re: [Zen] EGO

[Anthony Wu]

Ari,
 
You may not need (though may be good) love or kindness toward yourself or 
others, but try letting go of yourself's attachments.
 
Anthony

--- On Wed, 11/8/10, Ari aelindem...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: Ari aelindem...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 11 August, 2010, 7:35 AM


  





  






Ari,
 
Though I myself have not gone through the same nightmare, it reminds me of a 
Buddha saying that practice should not be carried out in a too tense way. The 
strings of the musical instrument should not be too tight or too loose. 
Sakyamuni himself experienced a feeling like having a being inside his body 
trying to tear his insides apart, when he did the extreme meditation. So try 
going the 'middle way'.
 
Anthony
 
*I see. I think I tend to be harsh and disciplined in my approach. I definitely 
don't meditate with any kind of kindness or love towards myself. 
 
*I still, though, only meditate one hour per day or less. 
 
*Thank you for your response. 
 
Best,
Ari
 
 
 
 
 
?  I'm going to go about my meditation, and not let the dream freak me out, but 
really, would not like to have another one! 





 
Best,
Ari

[Zen] EGO

[Ari]

Dear all, 

Recently I went to a spiritual retreat, and decided to intensify my meditation 
practice and other aspects of having a mindful life. 


I was then beset by one of the  worst nightmares I've ever had, where I was 
being chopped to bits by a hacksaw. The last line in the nightmare was and 
it's 
not a dream this time at which I woke up, to, indeed find that it was a dream. 


There is nothing so drastic in my personal life. My personal life is pretty 
mundane with not many conflicts at the moment. 


I wonder if Ego sent me the dream, to keep me from intensifying my practice?  
There have been other times in the past where I would get nightmares right 
after 
I had determined to intensify my practice. 


ANY opinions, welcome. 

I'm going to go about my meditation, and not let the dream freak me out, but 
really, would not like to have another one! 


Best,
Ari

Re: [Zen] EGO

[Anthony Wu]

Ari,
 
Though I myself have not gone through the same nightmare, it reminds me of a 
Buddha saying that practice should not be carried out in a too tense way. The 
strings of the musical instrument should not be too tight or too loose. 
Sakyamuni himself experienced a feeling like having a being inside his body 
trying to tear his insides apart, when he did the extreme meditation. So try 
going the 'middle way'.
 
Anthony

--- On Wed, 11/8/10, Ari aelindem...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: Ari aelindem...@yahoo.com
Subject: [Zen] EGO
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 11 August, 2010, 3:45 AM


  





Dear all, 
 
Recently I went to a spiritual retreat, and decided to intensify my meditation 
practice and other aspects of having a mindful life. 
 
I was then beset by one of the  worst nightmares I've ever had, where I was 
being chopped to bits by a hacksaw. The last line in the nightmare was and 
it's not a dream this time at which I woke up, to, indeed find that it was a 
dream. 
 
There is nothing so drastic in my personal life. My personal life is pretty 
mundane with not many conflicts at the moment. 
 
I wonder if Ego sent me the dream, to keep me from intensifying my practice?  
There have been other times in the past where I would get nightmares right 
after I had determined to intensify my practice. 
 
ANY opinions, welcome. 
 
I'm going to go about my meditation, and not let the dream freak me out, but 
really, would not like to have another one! 
 
Best,
Ari

Re: [Zen] EGO

[Ari]

 
Ari,

Though I myself have not gone through the same nightmare, it reminds me of a 
Buddha saying that practice should not be carried out in a too tense way. The 
strings of the musical instrument should not be too tight or too loose. 
Sakyamuni himself experienced a feeling like having a being inside his body 
trying to tear his insides apart, when he did the extreme meditation. So try 
going the 'middle way'.

Anthony

*I see. I think I tend to be harsh and disciplined in my approach. I definitely 
don't meditate with any kind of kindness or love towards myself. 


*I still, though, only meditate one hour per day or less. 

*Thank you for your response. 

Best,
Ari





?  I'm going to go about my meditation, and not let the dream freak me out, but 
really, would not like to have another one! 



Best,
Ari