Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-11 Thread Jody W. Ianuzzi
Hello Margie, We can learn a lot from dogs. Our spouses and children don't come racing to the door to greet us when we get home. Dogs have unconditional love and they will forgive you and forget about all the negatives like accidently stepping on their tail. Dogs don't ever say good bye

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-11 Thread Jody W. Ianuzzi
Hi Chuck, Hahahaha! That was a good one. JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-11 Thread Edgar Owen
Jody, Arf! wag, wag, wag! Edgar On Oct 11, 2008, at 11:10 AM, Jody W. Ianuzzi wrote: Hello Margie, We can learn a lot from dogs. Our spouses and children don't come racing to the door to greet us when we get home. Dogs have unconditional love and they will forgive you and forget about

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-11 Thread Jody W. Ianuzzi
Hello Edgar, Is whoof, whoof whoof anything li,e moo, moo, mu? JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to:

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-10 Thread roloro1557
Bow Wow! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Morning Margie, Well that answers the koan 'does a dog have Buddha nature?' What doesn't? :-) Edgar Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-10 Thread roloro1557
Hi Mike- Yes :-) And perhaps animals don't need to be mindful in the same way that we do... Margie (roloro1557) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, mike brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Margie, That's exactly how I see it too. I think you can no more get rid of desires/aversions than you

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-10 Thread Jody W. Ianuzzi
Hi margie and all, I think my dog lives in the moment better then I do. she will sit and just be there without a past or a future, she just notices everything that is happening right now. JODY Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Mayka
@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Mayka- Morals are just a set of arbitrary rules imposed by society, culture, religion, etc. They are meaningless. They are empty concepts. And they differ hugely from culture to culture. This creates nothing but endless arguments about whose morals

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread mike brown
] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 9 October, 2008 16:51:30 Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen I also define moral as a code of conduct. It was that explained in a post to Jack Master. There must have been an linguistic error here from my side. And so I'll try again to explain

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Anthony Wu
Margie,   I fully agree. But it is easier said than done.   regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 9/10/08, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 8:27 AM Hello Anthony- I

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Anthony Wu
in the fish market..   Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 9/10/08, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 9:18 AM Excuse me Anthony, but how do you know Bill has something

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Mayka
peace and avoid turmoil': Mu! ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:15 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Hi Margie, Then find me

RE: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread BillSmart
Anthony, I am as deep as a mirror...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:53 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Margie, I am poor at knowing other peoples experience

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Anthony Wu
the nderf, then tell me they are all bullshiting.   Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 9/10/08, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 7:37 PM Anthony and Margie

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Edgar Owen
Anthony and Margie, Anthony, would it help if you knew that the great all loving all powerful mother of the universe has you in her arms loving you at every moment including right now? She does. It's called being alive in her arms You just simply need to experience it. And

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Edgar Owen
formal code of conduct or morals. Hope this helps...Bill! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of roloro1557 Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:44 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Mayka- Morals are just a set of arbitrary rules imposed

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Edgar Owen
Margie and Anthony, Margie is correct. There are no such comparisons in Zen, no black belt rankings. Zen is not something 'in' a person, or that a person can 'have'. Zen is simply the way the entire universe actually is. It's just a matter of looking and seeing and dancing in tune with the

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Edgar Owen
: Aging and Zen Hi Margie, Then find me a different word that better describe 'how to maintain peace and avoid turmoil'. Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 9/10/08, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread mike brown
correct position. For example, is killing a healthy newborn child moral or immoral? Mike. - Original Message From: Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 9 October, 2008 23:18:51 Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Hello Mike; What are you doing? Moral Values

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Edgar Owen
Morning Margie, Well that answers the koan 'does a dog have Buddha nature?' What doesn't? :-) Edgar On Oct 9, 2008, at 9:30 AM, roloro1557 wrote: Morning Edgar, Not only that, but I see people doing zen (or getting done by zen) all the time who are obviously not zennists. Watch a

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread mike brown
Hi Edgar, Does a cow have Buddha nature? Mike. - Original Message From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, 10 October, 2008 1:18:14 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Morning Margie, Well that answers the koan 'does a dog have Buddha nature

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Edgar Owen
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Margie, I am poor at knowing other peoples experience. But Bill's words sounds like the zen literature I read--to be ruminated. I don't have to curry favor with him. I don't want to err on the wrong side either. To be on the safe side, I

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread mike brown
Hi Margie, Hmm, I can appreciate the sentiment but I can't really agree that Animals are eloquent zennists. We may often observe animals appearing to 'be in the moment', but zen is also about how to live and die mindfully. For instance, we can also observe animals cowering fearfully from

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Edgar Owen
Muuu! :-) Edgar On Oct 9, 2008, at 12:21 PM, mike brown wrote: Hi Edgar, Does a cow have Buddha nature? Mike. - Original Message From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, 10 October, 2008 1:18:14 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread mike brown
Well, M! works better, but you got the idea! An oldie but a goodie (the joke, that is..). Mike :) - Original Message From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, 10 October, 2008 2:07:34 Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Muuu

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Mayka
From: Mayka flordeloto@ ... To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Sent: Thursday, 9 October, 2008 16:51:30 Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen I also define moral as a code of conduct. It was that explained in a post to Jack Master. There must have been an linguistic error here

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Edgar Owen
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 9 October, 2008 23:18:51 Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Hello Mike; What are you doing? Moral Values are not exactly the same as moralistic values. It seems to me that the only who understood that were the gays from Yale

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Anthony Wu
Correction: there is a mirror, but no dust to wipe.   Anthony --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 10 October, 2008, 12:24 AM Bill, There is no mirror

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread roloro1557
Hi Anthony- Yes, going by his posts here in the forum, Bill is wise and smart and fair. I like Bill too, he's a marvelous cook wink I was trying to get you to look into your assumptions about yourself and other people. . . Margie (roloro1557) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Anthony Wu
www.nderf.org   Regards, Anthony --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 10 October, 2008, 1:16 AM Anthony, Give me the nderf link again and I'll take

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread roloro1557
Hi Anthony- I think the best way is to concentrate on what's happening right here, right now. Margie (roloro1557) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Edgar and Margie, I am fine at this moment, not really suffering a lot. Meanwhile I am scared by stories

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Anthony Wu
, Anthony --- On Fri, 10/10/08, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 10 October, 2008, 6:54 AM Hi Anthony- I think the best way is to concentrate on what's happening right here, right

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread roloro1557
Hi Anthony, I'm not offended. But you are like a dog chasing it's own tail. The discussion is beginning to wear me out. You keep asking the same questions over and over again. You are not satisfied with any of the answers you get and at the same time seem unwilling to find your own answers.

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread mike brown
PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, 10 October, 2008 8:20:54 Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Hi Mike- R.H. Blyth: Zen does not mean not fearing; it means not fearing to fear. I think your understanding is more colored by Buddhism than mine. Which is wonderful and fine

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-09 Thread Edgar Owen
, Anthony --- On Fri, 10/10/08, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, 10 October, 2008, 1:16 AM Anthony, Give me the nderf link again and I'll take a look. Edgar On Oct 9, 2008, at 10:19

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread Anthony Wu
Hi Margie,   Do you want to find the world in turmoil? Show me how to live in the world in peace without any kind of morality.   Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 9/10/08, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread roloro1557
Hello Anthony- How does morality contribute to peace? Look into history, and ask yourself, how does morality contribute to peace? Isn't the result exactly the opposite? Morality creates turmoil because then people start arguing about which morality should be the rule. Wars have been fought over

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread Anthony Wu
'just it'. Or Buddha nature, which not everybody follows. You can say everybody has Buddha nature, but when it comes to performance, the opposite is frequently true.   Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 9/10/08, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread Mayka
,   By morality I mean in general whatever can give us peace. My English is not good enough to differentiate between morality and moralistic.   Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 9/10/08, Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread roloro1557
Hi Mayka- By morals and morality I mean an imposed set of definitions of right and wrong and correlative rules for human behavior. Examples would be the christian 10 commandments, the buddhist precepts, etc. Moralistic is of morals or morality. Margie (roloro1557) --- In

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread Anthony Wu
to say anything, then I agree to keep silent.   Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 9/10/08, Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Mayka [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 8:03 AM Hi anthony; I can understand your troubles

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread Anthony Wu
Hi Margie,   Then find me a different word that better describe 'how to maintain peace and avoid turmoil'.   Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 9/10/08, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday

RE: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread BillSmart
@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Hi Margie, Do you want to find the world in turmoil? Show me how to live in the world in peace without any kind of morality. Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 9/10/08, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re

RE: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread Anthony Wu
Bill,   Like I said, you have something deeper.   Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 9/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 8:15 AM Anthony

RE: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread BillSmart
] Re: Aging and Zen Hi Margie, Then find me a different word that better describe 'how to maintain peace and avoid turmoil'. Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 9/10/08, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread Mayka
Hi Margie! If this is yor way of understandign no wonder you feel so rebelious about morals and morality!. I would react in the same way as you! -- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mayka- By morals and morality I mean an imposed set of definitions of

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread Mayka
Hi Margie again; I thought you already explained!: By morals and morality I mean an imposed set of definitions of right and wrong and correlative rules for human behavior. Examples would be the christian 10 commandments, the buddhist precepts, etc. Moralistic is of morals or

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread roloro1557
Excuse me Anthony, but how do you know Bill has something deeper? Deeper than whom? Me? You? Edgar? Ghandi? Sean Connery? Alan Greenspan? Bill Gates? Martin Luther King? Your next door neighbor? The woman in the 3rd stall at the fish market? My dog? How is it that you know so well what other

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread Mayka
Margie; You may be right and wonder if there might be a linguistic or insight proble here. I'd rather not to repeat mysel again and the word of moral was already explained previously in a post to Jackson Master in my way of understanding. Moral is a latin word by the way which derives from

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread Mayka
@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:15 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen Hi Margie, Then find me a different word that better describe 'how to maintain peace and avoid turmoil'. Regards

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread cid830
PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 9 October, 2008, 8:07 AM Hi Mayka- By morals and morality I mean an imposed set of definitions of right and wrong and correlative rules for human behavior. Examples would be the christian

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-08 Thread roloro1557
Mayka- Morals are just a set of arbitrary rules imposed by society, culture, religion, etc. They are meaningless. They are empty concepts. And they differ hugely from culture to culture. This creates nothing but endless arguments about whose morals are right and whose are wrong. Real morality

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-07 Thread cid830
] Subject: Re: [Zen] Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 6 October, 2008, 11:25 AM --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, Karin tortillera77@ ... wrote: Most Atheists who are evil ego-maniacs are men. Really? Please name some of them for me. Was that a scientific

Re: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-07 Thread Anthony Wu
Chris,   I am a non-atheist that is also an ego-maniac. I hesitate to add a qualification of 'evil'.   Regards, Anthony --- On Wed, 8/10/08, cid830 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: cid830 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, 8 October

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-07 Thread Mac A. Roni
[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you need a purpose to guide your actions, or you need a promise of reward or threat of retribution to convince you not to kill, burn, steal, or rape, try Christianity or one of the many other religions that provide you with an external daddy that will tell you what to do

RE: [Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-07 Thread BillSmart
Mac A. Roni, I'll respond to your recent post line by line, but first I want to make sure we're both talking about the same thing when we talk about the ability to determine right from wrong. It appears you use the term 'morality' for that, and so do I. I define 'morality' the same way it is

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-03 Thread roloro1557
Hi Al, For me zen does give me everything I want. Most definitely I don't want to die sitting on a cushion - I want to die with my boots on as the old saying goes. I don't believe in heaven or nirvana, anyway even if I did I would not want to go to heaven or nirvana unless everyone and all life

[Zen] Re: Aging and Zen

2008-10-03 Thread cid830
Zen is to be Free from Want! Who is willing to die, where ever they are? If you truly experience your being, at one with the NOW, your Heaven is here. You can't worry about what will happen after you die, because who REALLY knows? Later, Chris --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Al [EMAIL