Re: [Zen] Re: Is there an objective?
If no one else has any other input, then next question - what is real or truth? Namaste, Donald dkotschessa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, donald hwong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you Bill for letting me feel comfortable and welcomed. My question is, from the reading, it seems to indicate, slience, or emptiness or vacancy or nothingness is where we need to reach first!??? If so, then what? Do you have any other post? Namaste. There are lots of reasons and objectives and goals in Zen and anybody that says otherwise is probably parroting something they mis-read out of a book. Having said that, when you are actually sitting in zazen, if you are trying to reach the objective, you have your mind on the future rather than in the present. When you're doing the practice, you focus on the means and the means only. The means is zazen. It might be the breath, it might be a koan, it might be shikantaza. That's the only thing you focus on. The breath, or the koan, or shikantaza is the means to get you to the objective, which could be said to be samadhi. You can't get samadhi by hoping for it. But it will happen very often in the beginning that you will be wanting to get there and this is natural. You just have to forget about wanting and go back to the practice. Sometimes you'll realize you want to reach some state, then you'll say oh I need to stop wanting to reach some state, so you'll think ok now I'm going to stop wanting to reach some state. And now you're just wanting something else! It can be a real mess. I think my first year of zazen was something like this. Now my mind can be a mess but I'm not upset that it's a mess. I just sit there and see the mess and...well there it is. It's kind of like when somebody tells you Calm down! Doesn't that piss you off more than anything? Our minds are funny like that. -Davek Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group Zen_Forum on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Everything you need is one click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM ~- Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Re: Is there an objective?
I apologize for not being clear on the question. I am the newest member to the group. The moderator, I guess is Jarvis, sent me a few articles to read and encouraged me to ask questions and participate in the discussion. After I read zen.pdf, Wu-Ming and Instructions of Meditation, I asked, Is there an objective or not? Thank you, Donald Bill Smart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: donald hwong [EMAIL PROTECTED] Okay, here we go... Is there an objective or not? DaveK wrote: To what? ...to any of Jarvis' posts. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! SPONSORED LINKS Zen buddhism Tibetan buddhism Zen alarm clock Zen garden - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group Zen_Forum on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click.yahoo.com/.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM ~- Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Re: Is there an objective?
Donald wrote: I apologize for not being clear on the question. I am the newest member to the group. The moderator, I guess is Jarvis, sent me a few articles to read and encouraged me to ask questions and participate in the discussion. After I read zen.pdf, Wu-Ming and Instructions of Meditation, I asked, Is there an objective or not? Donald, Since you're a self-confessed Newbie I'll give you some tips: - Never say you weren't clear. Say there was some technical problem with you post because of the Yahoo! software, or suggest the site has been hacked by militant Presbyterians. - Jarvis (aka Al) is the moderator; although I'm sure you soon discover there's nothing moderate about him. - Reading, asking questions and participating in the discussions are what this forum is all about. I'd also add that actually practicing zen would be a good thing, but I guess that's optional. - In the beginning I'd wager that everyone has had multiple objectives they would like to achieve through their zen practice. I certainly did. As you practice, especially if you practice under the tutelage of an accomplished zen master, your objectives will change and soften. Eventually however, and the real answer to your question is that, you will realize there is actually no objective to zen practice. Just to practice is complete in and of itself and needs no additional objectives or goals. In zen talk making a very simple thing (like zen practice) unnecessarily complicated (like having objectives or goals) is sometimes expressed as 'putting one head on top of another'. Good luck, and watch out for those pesky Presbyterians...Bill! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Everything you need is one click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM ~- Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Re: Is there an objective?
Thank you Bill for letting me feel comfortable and welcomed. My question is, from the reading, it seems to indicate, slience, or emptiness or vacancy or nothingness is where we need to reach first!??? If so, then what? Do you have any other post? Namaste. Bill Smart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Donald wrote: I apologize for not being clear on the question. I am the newest member to the group. The moderator, I guess is Jarvis, sent me a few articles to read and encouraged me to ask questions and participate in the discussion. After I read zen.pdf, Wu-Ming and Instructions of Meditation, I asked, Is there an objective or not? Donald, Since you're a self-confessed Newbie I'll give you some tips: - Never say you weren't clear. Say there was some technical problem with you post because of the Yahoo! software, or suggest the site has been hacked by militant Presbyterians. - Jarvis (aka Al) is the moderator; although I'm sure you soon discover there's nothing moderate about him. - Reading, asking questions and participating in the discussions are what this forum is all about. I'd also add that actually practicing zen would be a good thing, but I guess that's optional. - In the beginning I'd wager that everyone has had multiple objectives they would like to achieve through their zen practice. I certainly did. As you practice, especially if you practice under the tutelage of an accomplished zen master, your objectives will change and soften. Eventually however, and the real answer to your question is that, you will realize there is actually no objective to zen practice. Just to practice is complete in and of itself and needs no additional objectives or goals. In zen talk making a very simple thing (like zen practice) unnecessarily complicated (like having objectives or goals) is sometimes expressed as 'putting one head on top of another'. Good luck, and watch out for those pesky Presbyterians...Bill! Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! SPONSORED LINKS Zen buddhism Tibetan buddhism Zen alarm clock Zen garden - YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group Zen_Forum on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - - Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Home is just a click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/DHchtC/3FxNAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM ~- Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Re: Is there an objective?
From: donald hwong [EMAIL PROTECTED] Okay, here we go... Is there an objective or not? DaveK wrote: To what? ...to any of Jarvis' posts. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Home is just a click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/DHchtC/3FxNAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM ~- Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
