Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-06 Thread Anthony Wu
ED,
 
Chogyam Trungpa was a playboy. But he did not seem to try to conceal that 
tendency of his. I like him and appreciate his honesty.
 
Anthony

--- On Mon, 6/12/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, 6 December, 2010, 7:36 AM


  





 
Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche when asked what reincarnates replied, Your neuroses. 
 
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote:

 ED,
  
 You can replace the word 'soul' with 'thought', 'mind' or whatever you think 
 is not, or the opposit of 'matter'.
  
 Anthony








Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-06 Thread Anthony Wu
ED,
 
Correction: the radio waves, before union with an embryo, take the form of an 
intermediate called bardo, which continues its romantic adventure where the 
dying person left off. This is a Tibetan theory, much more colorful than what 
you describe. However, neither of them conforms to Buddha's teachings. He says 
when a person dies, another entity (maybe a dog or a hungry ghost) was born. 
The two entities are not different, but are not the same either.
 
anthony

--- On Mon, 6/12/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, 6 December, 2010, 7:42 AM


  





 


How does the mind go from one body to another?

Think of it being like radio waves. The radio waves, which are not made up of 
words and music but energy at different frequencies, are transmitted, travel 
through space, are attracted to and picked up by the receiver from where they 
are broadcast as words and music. It is the same with the mind. At death, 
mental energy travels through space, is attracted to and picked up by the 
fertilized egg. As the embryo grows, it centers itself in the brain from where 
it later broadcasts itself as the new personality.
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda05.htm
 
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter...@... wrote:

 Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche when asked what reincarnates replied, Your
 neuroses.

 
  You can replace the word 'soul' with 'thought', 'mind' or whatever you
 think is not, or the opposit of 'matter'.
 
  Anthony









Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-06 Thread Rose P
Hi Chris - I enjoyed the talk and will probably watch some of his other talks. 
I've read some of the work by Joseph LeDoux (and have an interested in fear and 
the fear response) and so anything vaguely neuroscience appeals to me on an 
amateur level, esp when it attempts to add meditation into the mix. I like 
reading about the work of Richard Davidson and Matthieu Ricard - scanning the 
brains of practiced meditators etc - seeing what they think they can see. I'm 
not looking for anything definitive, it's just interesting on some level. I'm 
not really looking to label any of it as science or non-science. 

Incidentally, the guy in the talk is trying to sell products (on another 
website), some sort of wave producing head device, $650+ depending on which 
version you buy. I won't be asking Father Xmas for one, I'd be too scared to 
try one! :)

Rose

--- On Mon, 12/6/10, ChrisAustinLane ch...@austin-lane.net wrote:

From: ChrisAustinLane ch...@austin-lane.net
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 6, 2010, 2:48 PM







 



  



  
  
  If the video had been Dr. Austin I would have been pleased. This guy 
seems to been in the lab of the guy that tries to use magnetic radiation to 
induce visions of god in people. As science it seems sort of mediocre, though 
suggestive, though unreplicable to date. 



Really though, I just can't respect anyone that locates arousal or relaxation 
with places rather than states of a system. 



If this is your only exposure to neuro-anatomy, that seems like it would not be 
enough to start to make sense of a pretty complicated topic.



But the hand-wavy sciency explanations do emotionally engage people; I suspect 
ED's pleasure is the speakers goal. 



And I see a lot in the current day of people plastering on a few words and 
details from science, to increase the plausibility of their presentation 
without having the core of the scientific approach or understanding. As a 
material system, the brain is astoundingly complex. Anyone speaking of it from 
the perspective of understanding it scientifically will just relate a few 
interesting tid bits of data in a soup of we don't know this, and more 
investigation is needed here and so on. Humility is the hallmark of 
neuroscientists right now. 



Thanks,

Chris Austin-Lane

Sent from a cell phone



On Dec 5, 2010, at 15:18, billsm...@hhs1963.org wrote:



 Anthony and Chris,

 

 I don’t hold anything against science for trying to explain or understand 
 religion, but I don’t consider zen a religion (although zen does have lots of 
 instances where a religion has been built up around it – like Buddhism or 
 Christianity).  I just believe using science or logic to try to understand 
 zen is useless.  It’s like trying to ‘figure out’ a koan.  Some ‘figuring 
 out’ can be done, or seem to be done, but in the end it’s all in vain.

 

 …Bill!

 

 

 

 From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf 
 Of Anthony Wu

 Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 6:55 AM

 To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

 Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

 

 

 Chris,

 

 I don't see any 'religionization'. On the contrary, he tries to use 
 materialism to explain something relating to religion. Or to explain 
 metaphysical events.

 

 Anthony

 

 --- On Mon, 6/12/10, ChrisAustinLane ch...@austin-lane.net wrote:

 

 From: ChrisAustinLane ch...@austin-lane.net

 Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

 To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

 Cc: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

 Date: Monday, 6 December, 2010, 12:23 AM

 

 It is not even particularly good science. I think it may be a good example of 
 what Mayka and Bill were talking about the religionizatipn of science. 

 

 

 Thanks, 

 Chris Austin-Lane

 Sent from a cell phone

 

 On Dec 4, 2010, at 13:08, Anthony Wu wu...@yahoo.com.sg wrote:

 ED,

 

 I listened 10 minutes. Up to that point, it has been very materialistic, and 
 as Mike say, left out the 'soul'. It is very scientific, and not for one with 
 a view of anti-science. We have a long way to go to complete the journey of 
 science. Or will it be 'completed' at all?

 

 Anthony

 

 --- On Sat, 4/12/10, mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

 

 From: mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk

 Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

 To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com

 Date: Saturday, 4 December, 2010, 12:16 PM

 

 ED,

 

 Very interesting video on many different levels - the penny dropped a number 
 of times re my own thoughts and experiences. I was surprised he left out the 
 'long dark night of the soul' in his presentation tho. 

 Thanks, 

 Mike

 

 

 

 From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com

 To: Zen_Forum

Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-06 Thread ED






Anthony,

The question being dealt with is:

In Buddhist doctrine, what is the nature of the transmission from one
entity to the successor entity.

--ED



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote:

 ED,

 Chogyam Trungpa was a playboy. But he did not seem to try to conceal
that tendency of his. I like him and appreciate his honesty.

 Anthony



 Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche when asked what reincarnates replied, Your
neuroses.



  ED,
 
  You can replace the word 'soul' with 'thought', 'mind' or whatever
you think is not, or the opposit of 'matter'.
 
  Anthony




Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-06 Thread Anthony Wu
ED,
 
I knew. Chogyam Trungpa's answer reflects his personality. The guy is dead. I 
wonder whether his neurosis has been carried over to his next reincarnate.
 
Anthony

--- On Tue, 7/12/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 7 December, 2010, 12:16 AM


  






 
Anthony,
The question being dealt with is: 
In Buddhist doctrine, what is the nature of the transmission from one entity to 
the successor entity.
--ED
 
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote:

 ED,
  
 Chogyam Trungpa was a playboy. But he did not seem to try to conceal that 
 tendency of his. I like him and appreciate his honesty.
  
 Anthony
 
 Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche when asked what reincarnates replied, Your 
 neuroses.   

 
  ED,
  
  You can replace the word 'soul' with 'thought', 'mind' or whatever you 
  think is not, or the opposit of 'matter'.
  
  Anthony









Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-05 Thread Rose P
Ed, I watched 60 mins of the talk so far. For me personally, this type of 
information is so  immensely interesting. I enjoy hearing about what 
researchers think they have discovered and have yet to discover (or not, as the 
case may be), as far as the brain/religion/meditation go. I find it very 
inspiring but I appreciate that others think it's not necessary. The talk is 
helped along by the fact that the speaker comes across so well and injects 
personal insights. I think I can even overlook his hair style on this occasion, 
which looks incredibly high maintenance :)

Rose

--- On Fri, 12/3/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote:

From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 6:23 PM







 



  



  
  
  
Rose, I have just completed watching all 100 minutes of the video. It is 
phenomenal - I am dumbfounded! I will be re-watching it at least twice again.
--ED
 
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote:

 Thanks v much for the link Ed. I've watched the first couple of mins and 
 will be watching the rest, and probably some of the others, later.
 
 Rose
 
 Recommendation: 
 Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make your own 
 choices. 
 --ED
 
 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426#
 Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final 
 liberation
 1:39:08 - 2 years ago 
 Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains 
 enlightenment? This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in 
 neurotheology developed by Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God Helmet), 
 Todd Murphy (inventor of the 8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation system) 
 explores the brain's role in enlightenemnt as understood in Buddhism. The 
 talk also looks at the self (or sense of self), and how it's place as a brain 
 function allows it to be flexible enough to change as a person becomes 
 enlightened. It examines a few case histories, including those of Ramana 
 Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, The Buddha, and some others.




 





 



  






  

Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-05 Thread ED


Rose,

I am happy you like the video. I like Mr Murphy's calm and relatively
ego-free vibrations; he has obviously engaged in some serious Theravadin
meditation practice.

I have found the book: Zen-Mind Reflections quite interesting and have
learned much from it on the zazen-brain connection, but I skipped much
of the heavy neuro-physiological stuff.

The book was delivered to my door in four days by Amazon for $22
(including postage, handling, shipping and state sales tax.).

The book can be previewed up to a point at the link below. If you reach
the limit for previewing, try erasing cookies and clicking on the link
again.

http://books.google.com/books?id=uZ4fyfH_t9ECprintsec=frontcoverdq=zen\
-brain+reflectionshl=ensrc=bmrrei=DOn7TJqUNYK8sQPOpPH3DQsa=Xoi=book\
_resultct=resultresnum=1ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepageqf=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=uZ4fyfH_t9ECprintsec=frontcoverdq=ze\
n-brain+reflectionshl=ensrc=bmrrei=DOn7TJqUNYK8sQPOpPH3DQsa=Xoi=boo\
k_resultct=resultresnum=1ved=0CCwQ6AEwAA#v=onepageqf=false

--ED



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote:

 Ed, I watched 60 mins of the talk so far. For me personally, this type
of information is so  immensely interesting. I enjoy hearing about what
researchers think they have discovered and have yet to discover (or not,
as the case may be), as far as the brain/religion/meditation go.

I find it very inspiring but I appreciate that others think it's not
necessary. The talk is helped along by the fact that the speaker comes
across so well and injects personal insights. I think I can even
overlook his hair style on this occasion, which looks incredibly high
maintenance :)

 Rose



 Rose, I have just completed watching all 100 minutes of the video. It
is phenomenal - I am dumbfounded! I will be re-watching it at least
twice again.
 --ED




  Thanks v much for the link Ed. I've watched the first couple of
mins and will be watching the rest, and probably some of the others,
later.
 
  Rose


  Recommendation:
  Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make
your own choices.Â
  --ED

  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426 #
  Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final
liberation
  1:39:08 - 2 years ago
  Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains
enlightenment? This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in
neurotheology developed by Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God
Helmet), Todd Murphy (inventor of the 8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation
system) explores the brain's role in enlightenemnt as understood in
Buddhism. The talk also looks at the self (or sense of self), and how
it's place as a brain function allows it to be flexible enough to change
as a person becomes enlightened. It examines a few case histories,
including those of Ramana Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, The Buddha,
and some others.




Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-05 Thread ED


Chris,

All that matters to me is the pleasure I derive (without choice) from
enhancing or imagining that I am enhancing my understanding of the
mind-meditation connection.

--ED



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ChrisAustinLane ch...@... wrote:

 It is not even particularly good science. I think it may be a good
example of what Mayka and Bill were talking about the religionization of
science.


 Thanks,
 Chris Austin-Lane





Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-05 Thread Anthony Wu
ED,
 
You can replace the word 'soul' with 'thought', 'mind' or whatever you think is 
not, or the opposit of 'matter'.
 
Anthony

--- On Sun, 5/12/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 5 December, 2010, 10:38 PM


  




 
Anthony, 
What 'soul'?   Buddha declare that anatta (no 'soul') is a characteristic of 
all phenomena.
--ED
 
Note1:

The three signs of being are in essence of the three characteristics of all 
phenomena or, the ability to see things as they really are.
Change
Impermanence. Everything is always changing, wether physical, mental or 
emotional. Nothing stays the same so real stability is an illusion and even 
relative stability is at best a tenporary state of balance. Our thoughts, moods 
and bodies are born, gain strength, then deteriorate and cease to be.
Suffering
Suffering is also known as unsatisfactoriness. These are feelings of insecurity 
and frustration that arise from attachment. As nothing last indefinitely many 
things are taken away from us before we can fully enjoy them. Individuals want 
security, satisfaction and happiness, but we are always trying to grasp it as 
it is just out of reach.
No – I
Buddha denied the soul. Furthermore, there is no permanent essence in anything, 
including ourselves. We spend much time and energy defending a non-existent – 
I, Me, or Mine. This is the central delusion in Buddhism, one that Buddha saw 
through on his enlightenment.
Suffering I teach and the way out of suffering – The Buddha.
 
http://mubss.wordpress.com/2008/03/25/the-three-signs-of-being/
 
 
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote:

 ED,
  
 I listened 10 minutes. Up to that point, it has been very materialistic, and 
 as Mike say, left out the 'soul'. It is very scientific, and not for one with 
 a view of anti-science. We have a long way to go to complete the journey of 
 science. Or will it be 'completed' at all?
 
 Anthony

 
 ED,
  
 Very interesting video on many different levels - the penny dropped a number 
 of times re my own thoughts and experiences. I was surprised he left out the 
 'long dark night of the soul' in his presentation tho. 
 
 Thanks, 
 Mike

 
 Recommendation: 
 Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make your own 
 choices.  
 --ED
  
 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426#
 Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final 
 liberation
 
 
 1:39:08 - 2 years ago 
 Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains 
 enlightenment? This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in 
 neurotheology developed by Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God Helmet), 
 Todd Murphy (inventor of the 8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation system) 
 explores the brain's role in enlightenemnt as understood in Buddhism. The 
 talk also looks at the self (or sense of self), and how it's place as a brain 
 function allows it to be flexible enough to change as a person becomes 
 enlightened. It examines a few case histories, including those of Ramana 
 Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, The Buddha, and some others.









Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-05 Thread Anthony Wu
Chris,
 
I don't see any 'religionization'. On the contrary, he tries to use materialism 
to explain something relating to religion. Or to explain metaphysical events.
 
Anthony

--- On Mon, 6/12/10, ChrisAustinLane ch...@austin-lane.net wrote:


From: ChrisAustinLane ch...@austin-lane.net
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, 6 December, 2010, 12:23 AM


  




It is not even particularly good science. I think it may be a good example of 
what Mayka and Bill were talking about the religionizatipn of science. 



Thanks,
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone

On Dec 4, 2010, at 13:08, Anthony Wu wu...@yahoo.com.sg wrote:









ED,
 
I listened 10 minutes. Up to that point, it has been very materialistic, and as 
Mike say, left out the 'soul'. It is very scientific, and not for one with a 
view of anti-science. We have a long way to go to complete the journey of 
science. Or will it be 'completed' at all?
 
Anthony

--- On Sat, 4/12/10, mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:


From: mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 4 December, 2010, 12:16 PM


  



ED,
 
Very interesting video on many different levels - the penny dropped a number of 
times re my own thoughts and experiences. I was surprised he left out the 'long 
dark night of the soul' in his presentation tho. 

Thanks, 
Mike
 




From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 4 December, 2010 0:00:46
Subject: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

  


 
Recommendation: 
Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make your own 
choices.  
--ED
 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426#
Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final liberation


1:39:08 - 2 years ago 
Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains 
enlightenment? This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in neurotheology 
developed by Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God Helmet), Todd Murphy 
(inventor of the 8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation system) explores the brain's 
role in enlightenemnt as understood in Buddhism. The talk also looks at the 
self (or sense of self), and how it's place as a brain function allows it to be 
flexible enough to change as a person becomes enlightened. It examines a few 
case histories, including those of Ramana Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, 
The Buddha, and some others.
 
 
 











RE: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-05 Thread BillSmart
Anthony and Chris,

I don’t hold anything against science for trying to explain or understand 
religion, but I don’t consider zen a religion (although zen does have lots of 
instances where a religion has been built up around it – like Buddhism or 
Christianity).  I just believe using science or logic to try to understand zen 
is useless.  It’s like trying to ‘figure out’ a koan.  Some ‘figuring out’ can 
be done, or seem to be done, but in the end it’s all in vain.

…Bill!



From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Anthony Wu
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 6:55 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

  
Chris,
 
I don't see any 'religionization'. On the contrary, he tries to use materialism 
to explain something relating to religion. Or to explain metaphysical events.
 
Anthony

--- On Mon, 6/12/10, ChrisAustinLane ch...@austin-lane.net wrote:

From: ChrisAustinLane ch...@austin-lane.net
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, 6 December, 2010, 12:23 AM
  
It is not even particularly good science. I think it may be a good example of 
what Mayka and Bill were talking about the religionizatipn of science. 


Thanks, 
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone

On Dec 4, 2010, at 13:08, Anthony Wu wu...@yahoo.com.sg wrote:
ED,
 
I listened 10 minutes. Up to that point, it has been very materialistic, and as 
Mike say, left out the 'soul'. It is very scientific, and not for one with a 
view of anti-science. We have a long way to go to complete the journey of 
science. Or will it be 'completed' at all?
 
Anthony

--- On Sat, 4/12/10, mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

From: mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 4 December, 2010, 12:16 PM
  
ED,
 
Very interesting video on many different levels - the penny dropped a number of 
times re my own thoughts and experiences. I was surprised he left out the 'long 
dark night of the soul' in his presentation tho. 
Thanks, 
Mike
 


From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 4 December, 2010 0:00:46
Subject: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

  
 
Recommendation: 
Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make your own 
choices.  
--ED
 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426#
Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final liberation
1:39:08 - 2 years ago 
Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains 
enlightenment? This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in neurotheology 
developed by Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God Helmet), Todd Murphy 
(inventor of the 8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation system) explores the brain's 
role in enlightenemnt as understood in Buddhism. The talk also looks at the 
self (or sense of self), and how it's place as a brain function allows it to be 
flexible enough to change as a person becomes enlightened. It examines a few 
case histories, including those of Ramana Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, 
The Buddha, and some others.
 
 
 






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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature 
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Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-05 Thread ED




Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche when asked what reincarnates replied, Your
neuroses.



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu wu...@... wrote:

 ED,

 You can replace the word 'soul' with 'thought', 'mind' or whatever you
think is not, or the opposit of 'matter'.

 Anthony



Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-05 Thread ED


  [Rebirth ]



  [Question:]
How does the mind go from one body to another?

  [Answer:]
Think of it being like radio waves. The radio waves, which are not made
up of words and music but energy at different frequencies, are
transmitted, travel through space, are attracted to and picked up by the
receiver from where they are broadcast as words and music. It is the
same with the mind. At death, mental energy travels through space, is
attracted to and picked up by the fertilized egg. As the embryo grows,
it centers itself in the brain from where it later broadcasts itself
as the new personality.

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda05.htm
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda05.htm



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter...@... wrote:

 Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche when asked what reincarnates replied, Your
 neuroses.




  You can replace the word 'soul' with 'thought', 'mind' or whatever
you
 think is not, or the opposit of 'matter'.
 
  Anthony




Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-05 Thread mike brown
Chris,

I agree with you about the problem of the religionisation of science (I could 
definitely do without the 'God-helmet' bit..), but aren't we throwing out the 
baby with the bathwater by rejecting the physiology of how the brain functions 
preceding/during and post 'spiritual/enlightenment' experiences? 


Mike





From: ChrisAustinLane ch...@austin-lane.net
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 6 December, 2010 1:23:35
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

  
It is not even particularly good science. I think it may be a good example of 
what Mayka and Bill were talking about the religionizatipn of science. 


Thanks, 
Chris Austin-Lane
Sent from a cell phone

On Dec 4, 2010, at 13:08, Anthony Wu wu...@yahoo.com.sg wrote:


ED,

I listened 10 minutes. Up to that point, it has been very materialistic, and 
as 
Mike say, left out the 'soul'. It is very scientific, and not for one with a 
view of anti-science. We have a long way to go to complete the journey of 
science. Or will it be 'completed' at all?

Anthony

--- On Sat, 4/12/10, mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:


From: mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 4 December, 2010, 12:16 PM


  
ED,

Very interesting video on many different levels - the penny dropped a number 
of 
times re my own thoughts and experiences. I was surprised he left out the 
'long 
dark night of the soul' in his presentation tho. 


Thanks, 
Mike





From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 4 December, 2010 0:00:46
Subject: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

  


Recommendation: 
Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make your own 
choices.  

--ED

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426#
Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final 
liberation
1:39:08 - 2 years ago 
Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains 
enlightenment? 
This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in neurotheology developed by 
Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God Helmet), Todd Murphy (inventor of 
the 
8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation system) explores the brain's role in 
enlightenemnt as understood in Buddhism. The talk also looks at the self (or 
sense of self), and how it's place as a brain function allows it to be 
flexible 
enough to change as a person becomes enlightened. It examines a few case 
histories, including those of Ramana Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, The 
Buddha, and some others.



 




  

RE: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-05 Thread BillSmart
ED and Anthony,

The mind (discriminating/rational mind) cannot go from one body to another.

Buddha Mind is a quality that is fundamental to all sentient beings (beings
with the ability to experience - such as those that have sensory organs).
Buddha Mind does not 'go' from one being to another.  One body may have
awareness of Buddha Nature, and another body may have awareness of Buddha
Nature.  It is the same and only one Buddha Nature.

Nothing 'travels through space' or is 'attracted to and picked up' or
'broadcasted' by anything.

Maybe I spoke too soon.  Maybe this is a good (bad) example of the
'spiritualization of science':  that is using science or scientific
analogies to explain or understand such experiences as this.

...Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of ED
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 8:42 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

  



How does the mind go from one body to another?

Think of it being like radio waves. The radio waves, which are not made up
of words and music but energy at different frequencies, are transmitted,
travel through space, are attracted to and picked up by the receiver from
where they are broadcast as words and music. It is the same with the mind.
At death, mental energy travels through space, is attracted to and picked up
by the fertilized egg. As the embryo grows, it centers itself in the brain
from where it later broadcasts itself as the new personality.
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/qanda05.htm
 
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, ED seacrofter...@... wrote:

 Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche when asked what reincarnates replied, Your
 neuroses.
 
  You can replace the word 'soul' with 'thought', 'mind' or whatever you
 think is not, or the opposit of 'matter'.
 
  Anthony



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database 5674 (20101204) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 

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database 5676 (20101205) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
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Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-04 Thread Anthony Wu
ED,
 
I listened 10 minutes. Up to that point, it has been very materialistic, and as 
Mike say, left out the 'soul'. It is very scientific, and not for one with a 
view of anti-science. We have a long way to go to complete the journey of 
science. Or will it be 'completed' at all?
 
Anthony

--- On Sat, 4/12/10, mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:


From: mike brown uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 4 December, 2010, 12:16 PM


  





ED,
 
Very interesting video on many different levels - the penny dropped a number of 
times re my own thoughts and experiences. I was surprised he left out the 'long 
dark night of the soul' in his presentation tho. 

Thanks, 
Mike
 




From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 4 December, 2010 0:00:46
Subject: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

  


 
Recommendation: 
Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make your own 
choices.  
--ED
 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426#
Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final liberation


1:39:08 - 2 years ago 
Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains 
enlightenment? This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in neurotheology 
developed by Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God Helmet), Todd Murphy 
(inventor of the 8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation system) explores the brain's 
role in enlightenemnt as understood in Buddhism. The talk also looks at the 
self (or sense of self), and how it's place as a brain function allows it to be 
flexible enough to change as a person becomes enlightened. It examines a few 
case histories, including those of Ramana Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, 
The Buddha, and some others.
 
 
 









Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-03 Thread ED


Rose, I have just completed watching all 100 minutes of the video. It is
phenomenal - I am dumbfounded! I will be re-watching it at least twice
again.

--ED



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote:

 Thanks v much for the link Ed. I've watched the first couple of
mins and will be watching the rest, and probably some of the others,
later.

 Rose



 Recommendation:
 Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make
your own choices.
 --ED

 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426 #
 Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final
liberation
 1:39:08 - 2 years ago
 Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains
enlightenment? This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in
neurotheology developed by Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God
Helmet), Todd Murphy (inventor of the 8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation
system) explores the brain's role in enlightenemnt as understood in
Buddhism. The talk also looks at the self (or sense of self), and how
it's place as a brain function allows it to be flexible enough to change
as a person becomes enlightened. It examines a few case histories,
including those of Ramana Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, The Buddha,
and some others.




Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-03 Thread Anthony Wu
ED,
 
I would like to hear your conclusion before I watch the video.
 
Anthony

--- On Sat, 4/12/10, ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, 4 December, 2010, 2:23 AM


  





Rose, I have just completed watching all 100 minutes of the video. It is 
phenomenal - I am dumbfounded! I will be re-watching it at least twice again.
--ED
 
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Rose P things_r...@... wrote:

 Thanks v much for the link Ed. I've watched the first couple of mins and 
 will be watching the rest, and probably some of the others, later.
 
 Rose
 
 Recommendation: 
 Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make your own 
 choices. 
 --ED
 
 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426#
 Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final 
 liberation
 1:39:08 - 2 years ago 
 Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains 
 enlightenment? This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in 
 neurotheology developed by Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God Helmet), 
 Todd Murphy (inventor of the 8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation system) 
 explores the brain's role in enlightenemnt as understood in Buddhism. The 
 talk also looks at the self (or sense of self), and how it's place as a brain 
 function allows it to be flexible enough to change as a person becomes 
 enlightened. It examines a few case histories, including those of Ramana 
 Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, The Buddha, and some others.









Re: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-03 Thread mike brown
ED,

Very interesting video on many different levels - the penny dropped a number of 
times re my own thoughts and experiences. I was surprised he left out the 'long 
dark night of the soul' in his presentation tho. 


Thanks, 
Mike





From: ED seacrofter...@yahoo.com
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 4 December, 2010 0:00:46
Subject: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

  
 
Recommendation: 
Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make your own 
choices.  

--ED
 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426#
Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final liberation
1:39:08 - 2 years ago 
Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains 
enlightenment? 
This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in neurotheology developed by 
Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God Helmet), Todd Murphy (inventor of the 
8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation system) explores the brain's role in 
enlightenemnt as understood in Buddhism. The talk also looks at the self (or 
sense of self), and how it's place as a brain function allows it to be flexible 
enough to change as a person becomes enlightened. It examines a few case 
histories, including those of Ramana Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, The 
Buddha, and some others.
 
 
 



  

RE: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

2010-12-03 Thread BillSmart
ED,

I watched the first 5 minutes.  It sounded interesting until he started to
get into the physiology aspects.  I’ll listen to some more when I have more
time next week.

EVERYBODY,

I’m flying to Seoul, Korea tonight and will be there probably through the
end of the year.  Are any of you there now?

I'll be working while I'm there so that means I might not be as active on
the forum as usual - but I'll try.

…Bill!

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of ED
Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 10:01 PM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Zen] Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain

  
 
Recommendation: 
Listen to five minutes of the 100 minute video below and then make your own
choices.  
--ED
 
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5474604744218568426#
Enlightenment, Self, and the Brain. How the brain changes with final
liberation
1:39:08 - 2 years ago 
Neurotheology 3 - What happens in the brain when a person attains
enlightenment? This talk offers an hypothesis. Using concepts in
neurotheology developed by Michael A. Persinger (inventor of the God
Helmet), Todd Murphy (inventor of the 8 Coil Shakti neural stimulation
system) explores the brain's role in enlightenemnt as understood in
Buddhism. The talk also looks at the self (or sense of self), and how it's
place as a brain function allows it to be flexible enough to change as a
person becomes enlightened. It examines a few case histories, including
those of Ramana Maharishi, Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, The Buddha, and some
others.
 
 
 



__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5672 (20101203) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 

__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5672 (20101203) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 





Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

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