Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-16 Thread Mayka
- don't go. But be led by your own innate wisdom - not by others. Mike. - Original Message From: Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 16 October, 2008 8:52:53 Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality If that is not simple

RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread BillSmart
of Causality Hi Mike, I am waiting to be convinced that without morality we can still live in peace. Regards, Anthony --- On Wed, 15/10/08, mike brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: mike brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date

RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, It's easy to learn. When hungry, eat; when tired, sleep...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edgar Owen Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 7:12 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Bill, All sounds

RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread BillSmart
Good Luck! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:15 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Bill, You convinced me you are doing the right thing in your place in Thailand

RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread BillSmart
sleep. When are you moving to Africa? ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 5:04 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Hi Bill, It makes sense to start

RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread Anthony Wu
/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008, 6:50 PM Anthony, Thailand is in a real political mess right now. There are three

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread Anthony Wu
. As Buddha said, be your own guiding lamp. Mike. - Original Message From: Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] com.sg To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 18:55:10 Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Hi Mike,   I am waiting to be convinced

RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread Anthony Wu
, Anthony --- On Wed, 15/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008, 1:06 PM Anthony, My responses are embedded below

RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread Anthony Wu
Of Anthony Wu Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 4:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Hi Mike, I am waiting to be convinced that without morality we can still live in peace. Regards, Anthony --- On Wed, 15/10/08, mike brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] co.uk wrote

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread Anthony Wu
Hi Mike,   I am waiting to be convinced that without morality we can still live in peace.   Regards, Anthony --- On Wed, 15/10/08, mike brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: mike brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread Edgar Owen
: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 5:04 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Hi Bill, It makes sense to start to alleviate my suffering by getting rid of my attachments

RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread Endymion
] Subject: RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 7:24 AM Good Luck! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 8:15 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread mike brown
PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 18:55:10 Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Hi Mike, I am waiting to be convinced that without morality we can still live in peace. Regards, Anthony --- On Wed, 15/10/08, mike brown [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread Edgar Owen
: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edgar Owen Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 7:12 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Bill, All sounds great to me, but how do you accomplish all this without following the laws

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread mike brown
Hi Anthony. What can't you do by yourself? Mike. - Original Message From: Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, 15 October, 2008 19:15:43 Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Hi Mike, I am not yet convinced, and I don't think I

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread Anthony Wu
] Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 16 October, 2008, 6:37 AM Hi Anthony. What can't you do by yourself? Mike. - Original Message From: Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] com.sg To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Sent: Wednesday, 15

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread mike brown
Hi Anthony, Ok, I'm waiting. When are you going to put it in simple bloody English? Mike - Original Message From: Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 16 October, 2008 7:59:00 Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Mike, To put

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread Anthony Wu
If that is not simple enough. Here we go:   I cannot do anything on my own. I need your help.   Regards Anthony --- On Thu, 16/10/08, mike brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: mike brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread mike brown
From: Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, 16 October, 2008 8:52:53 Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality If that is not simple enough. Here we go: I cannot do anything on my own. I need your help. Regards Anthony --- On Thu, 16/10/08, mike

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread Anthony Wu
Thank you , Mike.   Regards, Anthony --- On Thu, 16/10/08, mike brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: mike brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, 16 October, 2008, 8:38 AM Hi Anthony, I'm not sure what I can

RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-15 Thread BillSmart
Edgar, Except it's only: Hungry Eat Tired Sleep ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edgar Owen Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 1:27 AM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Bill, Great examples

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-14 Thread Edgar Owen
Bill, Excellent point on pain and suffering and very clearly explained. I'll update my terminology from now on and draw a clearer distinction between pain and suffering as you point out. Thanks, Edgar On Oct 14, 2008, at 7:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anthony, 'Digression' is my

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-14 Thread mike brown
Hi Anthony, Many zen masters still remember the origin of zen, which is mahayana Buddhism has a root vow of Bodhisatva to save all sentient beings in the world. I have trouble seeing that reconciled with the non duality. I think you'll find that Edgar has already answered the question about

RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-14 Thread BillSmart
Anthony, 'Digression' is my middle name! See my responses embedded below: A hammer hitting a toe occurs every day and everywhere in the world, resulting in a lot suffering. How does zen address this problem? Pain is not what Buddhism means when it talks about suffering. Pain is pain. OUCH!

RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-14 Thread Anthony Wu
people to get rid of attachment to the suffering. Right?   Regards, Anthony --- On Tue, 14/10/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 14 October, 2008, 7

Re: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-14 Thread mike brown
October, 2008 8:24:30 Subject: RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality Dear Digression, That is what I expected to be your answer: there is no suffering to save. How about starving African people, those who go through tortures, political oppression, rape victims, bereaved family, etc etc? Do

RE: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality

2008-10-14 Thread BillSmart
: [Zen] Practical aspects of Causality To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 14 October, 2008, 7:14 PM Anthony, 'Digression' is my middle name! See my responses embedded below: A hammer hitting a toe occurs every day and everywhere in the world, resulting in a lot suffering. How does zen