RE: [Zen] Re: Is SATORI just a fairy tale?
Bill, Tell me why we should dedicate ourselves to anything at all, if there is nothing to attain? Your answer is the same as what the Heart Sutra says: no ignorance, no end of ignorance... no wisdom, and no attainment. But that is mahayana Buddhism.. At that time, they cared about karma and retribution. Now you stopped worrying about the future. Then why should you endeavor? Regards, Anthony --- On Tue, 4/11/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: Is SATORI just a fairy tale? To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 4 November, 2008, 8:46 AM Anthony, Satori is an illusion. There is nothing that has to be done, nothing to be attained. Dedication is always worthwhile. Bill! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 3:55 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Is SATORI just a fairy tale? Bill, Is it worth all the dedication just to have those 'fantasies'? If so, espresso is no fun. Remy Martin is better. Regards, Anthony Try cool new skins, plus more space for friends. Download Singapore Yahoo! Messenger now! http://sg.messenger.yahoo.com
RE: [Zen] Re: Is SATORI just a fairy tale?
Bill, I think we are getting closer there. So you suggest 'dedication for dedication's sake'? We should practice zen without any goal. Wouldn't it be better to drink Remy Martin? Which way is happier? Regards, Anthony --- On Tue, 4/11/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Zen] Re: Is SATORI just a fairy tale? To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 4 November, 2008, 10:34 PM Anthony, I don't know how to respond to you. You seem to be reading a lot into my posts that aren't there. You wrote: Tell me why we should dedicate ourselves to anything at all, if there is nothing to attain? I didn't say we should dedicate ourselves TO something. I said dedication is always worthwhile. How about: Dedication is its own reward. Is that better? Or: Dedication is preferable to indifference. How's that one? Your answer is the same as what the Heart Sutra says: no ignorance, no end of ignorance... no wisdom, and no attainment. But that is mahayana Buddhism. At that time, they cared about karma and retribution. Zen teachings do not contradict or obsolete Mahayana teachings, Mahayana teachings do not contradict or obsolete Hinayana teachings, if that's what your trying to imply. But I'm not concerned with Buddhism anyway so the point is moot for me. Now you stopped worrying about the future. Then why should you endeavor? I practice zen (I assume that what you mean by 'endeavor') because that is what I do. I practice zen NOW. I do not practice zen to reach any goal or to achieve some state in the future. Bill! New Email names for you! Get the Email name you#39;ve always wanted on the new @ymail and @rocketmail. Hurry before someone else does! http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/sg/
Re: [Zen] Re: Is SATORI just a fairy tale?
Bill, Is it worth all the dedication just to have those 'fantasies'? If so, espresso is no fun. Remy Martin is better. Regards, Anthony --- On Mon, 3/11/08, Bill Smart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Bill Smart [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Is SATORI just a fairy tale? To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 3 November, 2008, 4:44 PM Zatoichi63, To answer your question, yes 'satori' is just 'a fairly tale' - an illusion. My other responses are embedded below: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, zatoichi63 [EMAIL PROTECTED] .. wrote: BillSmart@ 'With complete awareness' would have been better. With x-ray vision and telekinesis would have been even better. Have you ever considered that this goal you have dedicated your life too is as much a sack of bullshit as Heaven, Angels, and Leprechauns? To what goal do you think I have dedicated my life? Certainly not 'satori' or 'enlightnement' , or Heaven, Angels or Leprechauns. Chemical scientific analysis of brain functions keeps unlocking the doors to the white light and other mystical experiences that have been proven to be hallucinations caused by the chemicals that are manufactured by your brain. How do you define 'hallucinations' ? Are they a 'false' awareness of things that aren't 'really' there? If so, how does 'real' awareness of things that are 'really' there happen? Aren't they also caused by chemical reactions in the brain? What's the difference? Meditate endlessly, and your brain creates a chemical whose effects people have come to know as SATORI. It is not an advanced state of enlightenment, it is just chemicals in your brain. Get with the program. There is no enlightenment. It is all just chemically induced fantasies on the journey to death. Satori is an illusion. Enlightenment and especially the belief in different states of enlighenment are illusions. So, I guess I would have to agree with this last paragraph. Zatoichi63 or Mac A. Roni or Al or whatever you want to call yourself today, just sit! Quit drinking so much expresso and just sit! No satori, no enlighenment, no Zatoichi63 - Just THIS! Bill! How do I save my mobile phone if it falls into water?
Re: [Zen] Re: Is SATORI just a fairy tale?
Raan,, He's already proved he's conscious to you because you are responding to him. Edgar On Nov 3, 2008, at 4:04 PM, Raan wrote: Is it a fantasy to realize not only that this right now is real, but that it's being is completely and utterly beyond comprehension? Dispute then if you will, and explain comprehensibly how it is anything exists at all. Should there not rather be nothing? And then try to prove to me beyond a doubt that you are anything at all yourself - that you are an actual conscious awareness. Then maybe if you can put the two together you will have some notion of what it is to be enlightened. -- RaaN --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bill, Â Is it worth all the dedication just to have those 'fantasies'? Â If so, espresso is no fun. Remy Martin is better. Â Regards, Anthony --- On Mon, 3/11/08, Bill Smart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Bill Smart [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zen] Re: Is SATORI just a fairy tale? To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 3 November, 2008, 4:44 PM Zatoichi63, To answer your question, yes 'satori' is just 'a fairly tale' - an illusion. My other responses are embedded below: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, zatoichi63 fitness63@ .. wrote: BillSmart@ 'With complete awareness' would have been better. With x-ray vision and telekinesis would have been even better. Have you ever considered that this goal you have dedicated your life too is as much a sack of bullshit as Heaven, Angels, and Leprechauns? To what goal do you think I have dedicated my life? Certainly not 'satori' or 'enlightnement' , or Heaven, Angels or Leprechauns. Chemical scientific analysis of brain functions keeps unlocking the doors to the white light and other mystical experiences that have been proven to be hallucinations caused by the chemicals that are manufactured by your brain. How do you define 'hallucinations' ? Are they a 'false' awareness of things that aren't 'really' there? If so, how does 'real' awareness of things that are 'really' there happen? Aren't they also caused by chemical reactions in the brain? What's the difference? Meditate endlessly, and your brain creates a chemical whose effects people have come to know as SATORI. It is not an advanced state of enlightenment, it is just chemicals in your brain. Get with the program. There is no enlightenment. It is all just chemically induced fantasies on the journey to death. Satori is an illusion. Enlightenment and especially the belief in different states of enlighenment are illusions. So, I guess I would have to agree with this last paragraph. Zatoichi63 or Mac A. Roni or Al or whatever you want to call yourself today, just sit! Quit drinking so much expresso and just sit! No satori, no enlighenment, no Zatoichi63 - Just THIS! Bill! How do I save my mobile phone if it falls into water?
RE: [Zen] Re: Is SATORI just a fairy tale?
Anthony, Satori is an illusion. There is nothing that has to be done, nothing to be attained. Dedication is always worthwhile. ...Bill! From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anthony Wu Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 3:55 PM To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Is SATORI just a fairy tale? Bill, Is it worth all the dedication just to have those 'fantasies'? If so, espresso is no fun. Remy Martin is better. Regards, Anthony Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
