On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 10:32 PM, Todd H. Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I can't agree with you more. I'm beginning to understand what the phrase
Sun's software is great - as long as you're running it on Sun's hardware
means...
Whether it's deserved or not, I feel like this OS isn't mature
On 30-Aug-08, at 2:32 AM, Todd H. Poole wrote:
Wrt. what I've experienced and read in ZFS-discussion etc. list
I've the
__feeling__, that we would have got really into trouble, using
Solaris
(even the most recent one) on that system ...
So if one asks me, whether to run Solaris+ZFS on
On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 09:35:31 -0300
Toby Thain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 30-Aug-08, at 2:32 AM, Todd H. Poole wrote:
I can't agree with you more. I'm beginning to understand what the
phrase Sun's software is great - as long as you're running it on
Sun's hardware means...
Totally OT,
Wrt. what I've experienced and read in ZFS-discussion etc. list I've the
__feeling__, that we would have got really into trouble, using Solaris
(even the most recent one) on that system ...
So if one asks me, whether to run Solaris+ZFS on a production system, I
usually say: definitely, but
Hi Todd,
sorry for the delay in responding, been head down rewriting
a utility for the last few days.
Todd H. Poole wrote:
Howdy James,
While responding to halstead's post (see below), I had to restart several
times to complete some testing. I'm not sure if that's important to these
Okay, so your ACHI hardware is not using an ACHI driver in solaris. A crash
when pulling a cable is still not great, but it is understandable because that
driver is old and bad and doesn't support hot swapping at all.
So there are two things to do here. File a bug about how pulling a sata
Howdy James,
While responding to halstead's post (see below), I had to restart several times
to complete some testing. I'm not sure if that's important to these commands or
not, but I just wanted to put it out there anyway.
A few commands that you could provide the output from
include:
On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 11:18:51PM -0700, MC wrote:
The two bonus things to do are: come to the forum and bitch about the bugs to
give them some attention, and come to the forum asking for help on making
solaris recognize your ACHI SATA hardware properly :)
Been there, done that. No
I plan on fiddling around with this failmode property in a few hours. I'll be
using http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-2271/gftgp?l=ena=view as a
reference.
I'll let you know what I find out.
-Todd
This message posted from opensolaris.org
___
Hi Todd,
Having finally gotten the time to read through this entire thread, I think Ralf
said it best. ZFS can provide data integrity, but you're reliant on hardware
and drivers for data availability.
In this case either your SATA controller, or the drivers for it don't cope at
all well with
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 1:18 AM, MC [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Okay, so your ACHI hardware is not using an ACHI driver in solaris. A
crash when pulling a cable is still not great, but it is understandable
because that driver is old and bad and doesn't support hot swapping at all.
His AHCI is
Todd H. Poole wrote:
And I want this test to be as rough as it gets. I don't want to play
nice with this system... I want to drag it through the most tortuous
worst-case scenario tests I can imagine, and if it survives with all
my test data intact, then (and only then) will I begin to trust
m == MC [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
m file another bug about how solaris recognizes your ACHI SATA
m hardware as old ide hardware.
I don't have that board but AIUI the driver attachment's chooseable in
the BIOS Blue Screen of Setup, by setting the controller to
``Compatibility'' mode
thp == Todd H Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Would try this with
your pci/pci-e cards in this system? I think not.
thp Unplugging one of them seems like a fine test to me
I've done it, with 32-bit 5 volt PCI, I forget why. I might have been
trying to use a board, but bypass the
Ah yes - that video is what got this whole thing going in the first place... I
referenced it in one of my other posts much earlier. Heh... there's something
gruesomely entertaining about brutishly taking a drill or sledge hammer to a
piece of precision hardware like that.
But yes, that's the
The behavior of ZFS to an error reported by an underlying device
driver is tunable by the zpool failmode property. By default, it is
set to wait. For root pools, the installer may change this
to continue. The key here is that you can argue with the choice
of default behavior, but don't
Since OpenSolaris is open source, perhaps some brave
soul can investigate the issues with the IDE device driver and
send a patch.
Fearing that other Senior Kernel Engineers, Solaris, might exhibit similar
responses, or join in and play “antagonize the noob,” I decided that I would
try to
PS: I also think it's worthy to note the level of supportive and constructive
feedback that many others have provided, and how much I appreciate it. Thanks!
Keep it coming!
This message posted from opensolaris.org
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
I think that your expectations from ZFS are
reasonable. However, it is useful to determine if pulling the IDE drive locks
the entire IDE channel, which serves the other disks as well. This
could happen at a hardware level, or at a device driver level. If this
happens, then there is nothing
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 5:19 AM, John Sonnenschein
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
James isn't being a jerk because he hates your or anything...
Look, yanking the drives like that can seriously damage the drives or your
motherboard.
It can, but it's not very likely to.
Solaris doesn't let you do
Howdy Matt. Just to make it absolutely clear, I appreciate your response. I
would be quite lost if it weren't for all of the input.
Unplugging a drive (actually pulling the cable out) does not simulate a
drive failure, it simulates a drive getting unplugged, which is
something the hardware
Howdy Matt, thanks for the response.
But I dunno man... I think I disagree... I'm kinda of the opinion that
regardless of what happens to hardware, an OS should be able to work around it,
if it's possible. If a sysadmin wants to yank a hard drive out of a motherboard
(despite the risk of
Howdy Matt. Just to make it absolutely clear, I appreciate your response. I
would be quite lost if it weren't for all of the input.
Unplugging a drive (actually pulling the cable out) does not simulate a
drive failure, it simulates a drive getting unplugged, which is
something the hardware
Howdy 404, thanks for the response.
But I dunno man... I think I disagree... I'm kinda of the opinion that
regardless of what happens to hardware, an OS should be able to work around it,
if it's possible. If a sysadmin wants to yank a hard drive out of a motherboard
(despite the risk of damage
jalex? As in Justin Alex?
If you're who I think you are, don't you have a pretty long list of things you
need to get done for Jerry before your little vacation?
This message posted from opensolaris.org
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
alrigt, alright, but your fault. you left your workstation logged on, what was
i supposed to do? not chime in?
grotty yank
This message posted from opensolaris.org
___
zfs-discuss mailing list
zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
John Sonnenschein wrote:
Look, yanking the drives like that can seriously damage the drives or
your motherboard. Solaris doesn't let you do it and assumes that
something's gone seriously wrong if you try it. That Linux ignores
the behavior and lets you do it sounds more like a bug in linux
Todd H. Poole wrote:
Hmmm... I see what you're saying. But, ok, let me play devil's advocate. What
about the times when a drive fails in a way the system didn't expect? What
you said was right - most of the time, when a hard drive goes bad, SMART will
pick up on it's impending doom long
Ralf Ramge wrote:
[...]
Oh, and please excuse the grammar mistakes and typos. I'm in a hurry,
not a retard ;-) At least I think so.
--
Ralf Ramge
Senior Solaris Administrator, SCNA, SCSA
Tel. +49-721-91374-3963
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://web.de/
11 Internet AG
Brauerstraße 48
76135
Justin wrote:
Howdy Matt. Just to make it absolutely clear, I appreciate your
response. I would be quite lost if it weren't for all of the input.
Unplugging a drive (actually pulling the cable out) does not
simulate a drive failure, it simulates a drive getting unplugged,
which is
Todd H. Poole wrote:
Howdy 404, thanks for the response.
But I dunno man... I think I disagree... I'm kinda of the opinion that
regardless of what happens to hardware, an OS should be able to work around
it, if it's possible. If a sysadmin wants to yank a hard drive out of a
motherboard
On Sun, 24 Aug 2008, Todd H. Poole wrote:
So aside from telling me to [never] try this sort of thing with
IDE does anyone else have any other ideas on how to prevent
OpenSolaris from locking up whenever an IDE drive is abruptly
disconnected from a ZFS RAID-Z array?
I think that your
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 08:17:55PM +1200, Ian Collins wrote:
John Sonnenschein wrote:
Look, yanking the drives like that can seriously damage the drives
or your motherboard. Solaris doesn't let you do it ...
Haven't seen an andruid/universal soldier shipping with Solaris ... ;-)
and
jcm == James C McPherson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
thp == Todd H Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
mh == Matt Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
js == John Sonnenschein [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
re == Richard Elling [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
cg == Carson Gaspar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You're seeing exactly the same behaviour I found on my server, using a
Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 SATA controller. It's detailed on the forums under the
topics Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 hang when drive removed, but unfortunately
that topic split into 3 or 4 pieces so it's a pain to find.
I also
Ah, yes - all four hard drives are connected to the motherboard's onboard SATA
II ports. There is one additional drive I have neglected to mention thus far
(the boot drive) but that is connected via the motherboard's IDE channel, and
has remained untouched since the install... I don't really
PS. Does your system definitely support SATA hot swap? Could you for example
test it under windows to see if it runs fine there?
I suspect this is a Solaris driver problem, but it would be good to have
confirmation that the hardware handles this fine.
This message posted from
Hmm... You know, that's a good question. I'm not sure if those SATA II ports
support hot swap or not. The motherboard is fairly new, but taking a look at
the specifications provided by Gigabyte
(http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ProductID=2874)
doesn't seem to
Todd H. Poole wrote:
Hmm... I'm leaning away a bit from the hardware, but just in case you've
got an idea, the machine is as follows:
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 4850e 2.5GHz Socket AM2 45W Dual-Core Processor Model
ADH4850DOBOX
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103255)
I'm pretty sure pci-ide doesn't support hot-swap. I believe you need ahci.
On 8/24/08, Todd H. Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ah, yes - all four hard drives are connected to the motherboard's onboard
SATA II ports. There is one additional drive I have neglected to mention
thus far (the
Tim wrote:
I'm pretty sure pci-ide doesn't support hot-swap. I believe you need ahci.
You're correct, it doesn't. Furthermore, to the best of
my knowledge, it won't ever support hotswap.
James C. McPherson
--
Senior Kernel Software Engineer, Solaris
Sun Microsystems
http://blogs.sun.com/jmcp
Todd H. Poole wrote:
Hmmm. Alright, but supporting hot-swap isn't the issue, is it? I mean,
like I said in my response to myxiplx, if I have to bring down the
machine in order to replace a faulty drive, that's perfectly acceptable -
I can do that whenever it's most convenient for me.
What
But you're not attempting hotswap, you're doing hot plug
Do you mean hot UNplug? Because I'm not trying to get this thing to recognize
any new disks without a restart... Honest. I'm just trying to prevent the
machine from freezing up when a drive fails. I have no problem restarting the
Todd H. Poole wrote:
But you're not attempting hotswap, you're doing hot plug
Do you mean hot UNplug? Because I'm not trying to get this thing to recognize
any new disks without a restart... Honest. I'm just trying to prevent the
machine from freezing up when a drive fails. I have no
James isn't being a jerk because he hates your or anything...
Look, yanking the drives like that can seriously damage the drives or your
motherboard. Solaris doesn't let you do it and assumes that something's gone
seriously wrong if you try it. That Linux ignores the behavior and lets you do
aye mate, I had the exact same problem, but where i work, we pay some pretty
seriosu dollars for a direct 24/7 line to some of sun's engineers, so i decided
to call them up. after spending some time with tech support, i never really got
the thing resolved, and i instead ended up going back to
Howdy yall,
Earlier this month I downloaded and installed the latest copy of OpenSolaris
(2008.05) so that I could test out some of the newer features I've heard so
much about, primarily ZFS.
My goal was to replace our aging linux-based (SuSE 10.1) file and media server
with a new machine
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 11:06 PM, Todd H. Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Howdy yall,
Earlier this month I downloaded and installed the latest copy of
OpenSolaris (2008.05) so that I could test out some of the newer features
I've heard so much about, primarily ZFS.
My goal was to replace our
Hmm... I'm leaning away a bit from the hardware, but just in case you've got an
idea, the machine is as follows:
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 4850e 2.5GHz Socket AM2 45W Dual-Core Processor Model
ADH4850DOBOX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103255)
Motherboard: GIGABYTE
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 11:41 PM, Todd H. Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Hmm... I'm leaning away a bit from the hardware, but just in case you've
got an idea, the machine is as follows:
CPU: AMD Athlon X2 4850e 2.5GHz Socket AM2 45W Dual-Core Processor Model
ADH4850DOBOX (
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