Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-11-11 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009, Tim Cook wrote: My personal thought would be that it doesn't really make sense to even have it, at least for readzilla.  In theory, you always want the SSD to be full, or nearly full, as it's a cache.  The whole point of TRIM, from my understanding, is to speed up the

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-11-11 Thread Tim Cook
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us wrote: On Tue, 10 Nov 2009, Tim Cook wrote: My personal thought would be that it doesn't really make sense to even have it, at least for readzilla. In theory, you always want the SSD to be full, or nearly full,

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-11-11 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Mon, Sep 07, 2009 at 09:58:19AM -0700, Richard Elling wrote: I only know of hole punching in the context of networking. ZFS doesn't do networking, so the pedantic answer is no. But a VDEV may be an iSCSI device, thus there can be networking below ZFS. For some iSCSI targets (including

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-11-11 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Wed, 11 Nov 2009, Tim Cook wrote: I'm well aware of the fact that SSD mfg's put extra blocks into the device to increase both performance and MTBF.  I'm not sure how that invalidates what I've said though, or even plays a roll, and you haven't done a very good job of explaining why you

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-11-10 Thread George Janczuk
I've been following the use of SSD with ZFS and HSPs for some time now, and I am working (in an architectural capacity) with one of our IT guys to set up our own ZFS HSP (using a J4200 connected to an X2270). The best practice seems to be to use an Intel X25-M for the L2ARC (Readzilla) and an

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-11-10 Thread Tim Cook
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 6:51 PM, George Janczuk geor...@objectconsulting.com.au wrote: I've been following the use of SSD with ZFS and HSPs for some time now, and I am working (in an architectural capacity) with one of our IT guys to set up our own ZFS HSP (using a J4200 connected to an

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-09-08 Thread Chris Csanady
2009/9/7 Ritesh Raj Sarraf r...@researchut.com: The Discard/Trim command is also available as part of the SCSI standard now. Now, if you look from a SAN perspective, you will need a little of both. Filesystems will need to be able to deallocate blocks and then the same should be triggered as

[zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-09-07 Thread Sriram Narayanan
Folks: I gave a presentation last weekend on how one could use Zones, ZFS and Crossbow to recreate deployments scenarios on one's computer (to the extent possible). I've received the following question, and would like to ask the ZFS Community for answers. -- Sriram -- Forwarded

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-09-07 Thread Richard Elling
On Sep 7, 2009, at 3:49 AM, Sriram Narayanan wrote: Folks: I gave a presentation last weekend on how one could use Zones, ZFS and Crossbow to recreate deployments scenarios on one's computer (to the extent possible). I've received the following question, and would like to ask the ZFS Community

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-09-07 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Mon, 7 Sep 2009, Richard Elling wrote: This is an article about the new TRIM command. It would be important for file systems which write their metadata to the same physical location or use a MRU replacement algorithm. But ZFS is copy-on-write, so the metadata is allocated from free space and

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-09-07 Thread Richard Elling
On Sep 7, 2009, at 10:20 AM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: On Mon, 7 Sep 2009, Richard Elling wrote: This is an article about the new TRIM command. It would be important for file systems which write their metadata to the same physical location or use a MRU replacement algorithm. But ZFS is

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-09-07 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Mon, 7 Sep 2009, Richard Elling wrote: Yep, it is there to try and solve the problem of rewrites in a small area, smaller than the bulk erase size. While it would be trivial to traverse the spacemap and TRIM the free blocks, it might not improve performance for COW file systems. My crystal

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-09-07 Thread Richard Elling
On Sep 7, 2009, at 11:48 AM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: On Mon, 7 Sep 2009, Richard Elling wrote: Yep, it is there to try and solve the problem of rewrites in a small area, smaller than the bulk erase size. While it would be trivial to traverse the spacemap and TRIM the free blocks, it might

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-09-07 Thread Chris Csanady
2009/9/7 Richard Elling richard.ell...@gmail.com: On Sep 7, 2009, at 10:20 AM, Bob Friesenhahn wrote: The purpose of the TRIM command is to allow the FLASH device to reclaim and erase storage at its leisure so that the writer does not need to wait for erasure once the device becomes full.  

Re: [zfs-discuss] Fwd: [ilugb] Does ZFS support Hole Punching/Discard

2009-09-07 Thread Ritesh Raj Sarraf
The Discard/Trim command is also available as part of the SCSI standard now. Now, if you look from a SAN perspective, you will need a little of both. Filesystems will need to be able to deallocate blocks and then the same should be triggered as a SCSI Trim to the Storage Controller. For a