Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-19 Thread Christopher George
From the web page it looks like this is a card that goes into the computer system. That's not very useful for enterprise applications, as they are going to want to use an external array that can be used by a redundant pair of servers. The DDRdrive X1 does utilize a

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-18 Thread Charles Hedrick
From the web page it looks like this is a card that goes into the computer system. That's not very useful for enterprise applications, as they are going to want to use an external array that can be used by a redundant pair of servers. I'm very interested in a cost-effective device that will

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-18 Thread Tim Cook
On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 8:48 PM, Charles Hedrick hedr...@rutgers.eduwrote: From the web page it looks like this is a card that goes into the computer system. That's not very useful for enterprise applications, as they are going to want to use an external array that can be used by a redundant

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-15 Thread Al Hopper
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Christopher George cgeo...@ddrdrive.com wrote: Why not enlighten EMC/NTAP on this then? On the basic chemistry and possible failure characteristics of Li-Ion batteries? I will agree, if I had system level control as in either example, one could definitely

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-15 Thread zfsml
On 1/13/10 9:51 AM, Christopher George wrote: The DDRdrive X1 OpenSolaris device driver is now complete, please join us in our first-ever ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) beta test program. A select number of X1s are available for loan, preferred candidates would have a validation background and/or a true

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-15 Thread Andrey Kuzmin
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 2:07 AM, Christopher George cgeo...@ddrdrive.com wrote: Why not enlighten EMC/NTAP on this then? On the basic chemistry and possible failure characteristics of Li-Ion batteries? I will agree, if I had system level control as in either example, one could definitely

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Christopher George
I'm not sure about others on the list, but I have a dislike of AC power bricks in my racks. I definitely empathize with your position concerning AC power bricks, but until the perfect battery is created, and we are far from it, it comes down to tradeoffs. I personally believe the ignition

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Ray Van Dolson
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 12:35:32AM -0800, Christopher George wrote: I'm not sure about others on the list, but I have a dislike of AC power bricks in my racks. I definitely empathize with your position concerning AC power bricks, but until the perfect battery is created, and we are far

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Andrey Kuzmin
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Christopher George cgeo...@ddrdrive.com wrote: I'm not sure about others on the list, but I have a dislike of AC power bricks in my racks. I definitely empathize with your position concerning AC power bricks, but until the perfect battery is created, and we

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Thu, 14 Jan 2010, Ray Van Dolson wrote: My gut tells me the risk of this is pretty low and most are going to prefer the convenience of an onboard BBU to installing UPS'es in all their racks (as good a practice as that may be). Other than the spontaneous combustion issue (which was heavily

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Christopher George
Is there any data out there that have tracked these sort of ignition incidents? I have to admit I'd never heard of this. We have quite a few BBU backed RAID controllers in our servers and I've never had anything remotely like this occur. I know anecdotal evidence is meaningless, but this

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Christopher George
That's kind of an overstatement. NVRAM backed by on-board LI-Ion batteries has been used in storage industry for years; Respectfully, I stand by my three points of Li-Ion batteries as they relate to enterprise class NVRAM: ignition risk, thermal wear-out, and proprietary design. As a prior

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Miles Nordin
cg == Christopher George cgeo...@ddrdrive.com writes: cg I agree, it would be very informative if RAID HBA vendors cg would publish failure statistics of their Li-Ion based BBU cg products. If they haven't, then on what are you basing your decision *not* to use one? Just the random

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Andrey Kuzmin
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Christopher George cgeo...@ddrdrive.com wrote: That's kind of an overstatement. NVRAM backed by on-board LI-Ion batteries has been used in storage industry for years; Respectfully, I stand by my three points of Li-Ion batteries as they relate to enterprise

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread David Dyer-Bennet
On Thu, January 14, 2010 14:34, Miles Nordin wrote: cg == Christopher George cgeo...@ddrdrive.com writes: cg inflexible proprietary nature of Li-Ion You can get complete systems with charging microcontroller and battery without any undue encumbrances I can detect on sparkfun.com.

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Christopher George
Why not enlighten EMC/NTAP on this then? On the basic chemistry and possible failure characteristics of Li-Ion batteries? I will agree, if I had system level control as in either example, one could definitely help mitigate said risks compared to selling a card based product where I have very

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Richard Elling
On Jan 14, 2010, at 11:02 AM, Christopher George wrote: That's kind of an overstatement. NVRAM backed by on-board LI-Ion batteries has been used in storage industry for years; Respectfully, I stand by my three points of Li-Ion batteries as they relate to enterprise class NVRAM: ignition

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Alex Lam S.L.
Very interesting product indeed! Given the volume one of these cards take up inside the server though, I couldn't help but think that 4GB is a bit on the low side. Alex. On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Christopher George cgeo...@ddrdrive.com wrote: The DDRdrive X1 OpenSolaris device driver

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Tim Cook
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:22 PM, Richard Elling richard.ell...@gmail.comwrote: On Jan 14, 2010, at 11:02 AM, Christopher George wrote: That's kind of an overstatement. NVRAM backed by on-board LI-Ion batteries has been used in storage industry for years; Respectfully, I stand by my

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Christopher George
I see nothing in the design that precludes a customer from using a Li-Ion battery, if they so desire. Perhaps the collective has forgotten that DC power is one of the simplest and most widespread interfaces around? :-) Richard, Very good point! We have already had a request for the DC jack

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-14 Thread Christopher George
Personally I'd say it's a must. Most DC's I operate in wouldn't tolerate having a card separately wired from the chassis power. May I ask the list, if this is a hard requirement for anyone else? Please email me directly cgeorge at ddrdrive dot com. Thank you, Christopher George Founder/CTO

[zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-13 Thread Christopher George
The DDRdrive X1 OpenSolaris device driver is now complete, please join us in our first-ever ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) beta test program. A select number of X1s are available for loan, preferred candidates would have a validation background and/or a true passion for torturing new hardware/driver :-)

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-13 Thread Adam Leventhal
Hey Chris, The DDRdrive X1 OpenSolaris device driver is now complete, please join us in our first-ever ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) beta test program. A select number of X1s are available for loan, preferred candidates would have a validation background and/or a true passion for torturing new

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-13 Thread Neil Perrin
Hi Adam, So was FW aware of this or in contact with these guys? Also are you requesting/ordering any of these cards to evaluate? The device seems kind of small at 4GB, and uses a double wide PCI Express slot. Neil. On 01/13/10 12:27, Adam Leventhal wrote: Hey Chris, The DDRdrive X1

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-13 Thread Tristan Ball
That's very interesting tech you've got there... :-) I have a couple of questions, with apologies in advance if I missed them on the website.. I see the PCI card has an external power connector - can you explain how/why that's required, as opposed to using an on card battery or similar. What

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-13 Thread Christopher George
Excellent questions! I see the PCI card has an external power connector - can you explain how/why that's required, as opposed to using an on card battery or similar. DDRdrive X1 ZIL functionality is best served with an external attached UPS, this allows the X1 to perform as a non-volatile

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-13 Thread Miles Nordin
cg == Christopher George cgeo...@ddrdrive.com writes: cg Nothing, the DDRdrive X1's data integrity is guaranteed by the cg attached UPS. I've found UPS power is less reliable than unprotected line power where I live, especially when using bargain UPS's like the ones you suggest. I've

Re: [zfs-discuss] New ZFS Intent Log (ZIL) device available - Beta program now open!

2010-01-13 Thread Tristan Ball
Thanks for the detailed response - further questions inline... Christopher George wrote: Excellent questions! I see the PCI card has an external power connector - can you explain how/why that's required, as opposed to using an on card battery or similar. DDRdrive X1 ZIL