Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

2012-06-11 Thread James C. McPherson

On 12/06/12 06:40 AM, David Combs wrote:

Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?


Actually, no. Where's the value in having a newsgroup
as well as a mailing list?


James C. McPherson
--
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http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

2012-06-11 Thread David Combs
Advantages to true newsgroup?

THREADS!  If you wait until a thread is finished, you can then see the entire 
thread, and if you want, you can download the whole thing, or just parts 
thereof.

Great for learning, if you're mostly a lurker, not posting answers.

That's vastly simpler than getting a thousand emails, saving them all in a 
file, and then having to sort them by subject-line (modified so RE:, etc are 
ignored in sort key), to get them grouped by zfs-topic.  What a pain.

When via a powerful newsreader (I use trn4), all of that is done for you 
automatically.

Furthermore, at least one newsreader, trn4, via its t (tree) command, will 
draw a tree (rooted at the right side of the page, but the text oriented so you 
can read right-side-up, without turning your head sideways) so you can pursue 
topics, can see how they lay out, or better yet, delete, say, flame subthreads 
(surely not a problem with zfs-discuss).

Besides that, you don't have posts hitting your regular email list, diluting 
the urgent stuff you really do have to respond to, making it easier to miss 
that stuff.

Lets you keep newsgroup-TYPE stuff (eg zfs-discuss email) separate from 
true-email stuff.

--

QUESTION: how much effort (for someone who already knows how, has done it 
before) to create a newsgroup that mirrors a listserv?

Once done, all anyone has to do is request from his friendly isp (mine is 
panix.com, *very* friendly) to support that new newsgroup.

Name it something like comp.unix.solaris.zfs.

Or just have it all go to comp.unix.solaris, which of course already exists.


Anyway, I hope I've answered your question.

Cheers!

David


-Original Message-
From: James C. McPherson [mailto:j...@opensolaris.org] 
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:55 PM
To: David Combs
Cc: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

On 12/06/12 06:40 AM, David Combs wrote:
 Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

Actually, no. Where's the value in having a newsgroup as well as a mailing list?


James C. McPherson
--
Oracle
http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog
-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2433/5062 - Release Date: 06/11/12

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Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

2012-06-11 Thread Tomas Forsman
On 11 June, 2012 - David Combs sent me these 2,4K bytes:

 Advantages to true newsgroup?
 
 THREADS!  If you wait until a thread is finished, you can then see the entire 
 thread, and if you want, you can download the whole thing, or just parts 
 thereof.
 
 Great for learning, if you're mostly a lurker, not posting answers.
 
 That's vastly simpler than getting a thousand emails, saving them all in a 
 file, and then having to sort them by subject-line (modified so RE:, etc 
 are ignored in sort key), to get them grouped by zfs-topic.  What a pain.

.. or use a mail reader that doesn't suck.

 When via a powerful newsreader (I use trn4), all of that is done for you 
 automatically.

mutt is probably pretty close.

 Furthermore, at least one newsreader, trn4, via its t (tree) command, will 
 draw a tree (rooted at the right side of the page, but the text oriented so 
 you can read right-side-up, without turning your head sideways) so you can 
 pursue topics, can see how they lay out, or better yet, delete, say, flame 
 subthreads (surely not a problem with zfs-discuss).
 
 Besides that, you don't have posts hitting your regular email list, diluting 
 the urgent stuff you really do have to respond to, making it easier to miss 
 that stuff.
 
 Lets you keep newsgroup-TYPE stuff (eg zfs-discuss email) separate from 
 true-email stuff.

It's called mail filtering.

 --
 
 QUESTION: how much effort (for someone who already knows how, has done it 
 before) to create a newsgroup that mirrors a listserv?
 
 Once done, all anyone has to do is request from his friendly isp (mine is 
 panix.com, *very* friendly) to support that new newsgroup.
 
 Name it something like comp.unix.solaris.zfs.
 
 Or just have it all go to comp.unix.solaris, which of course already exists.
 
 
 Anyway, I hope I've answered your question.
 
 Cheers!
 
 David
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: James C. McPherson [mailto:j...@opensolaris.org] 
 Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:55 PM
 To: David Combs
 Cc: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
 Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?
 
 On 12/06/12 06:40 AM, David Combs wrote:
  Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?
 
 Actually, no. Where's the value in having a newsgroup as well as a mailing 
 list?
 
 
 James C. McPherson
 --
 Oracle
 http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog
 -
 No virus found in this message.

Good to know, I better trust this info - just like spam that says it's
not spam :P

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2433/5062 - Release Date: 06/11/12
 
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/Tomas
-- 
Tomas Forsman, st...@acc.umu.se, http://www.acc.umu.se/~stric/
|- Student at Computing Science, University of UmeƄ
`- Sysadmin at {cs,acc}.umu.se
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

2012-06-11 Thread Nico Williams
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Tomas Forsman st...@acc.umu.se wrote:
 .. or use a mail reader that doesn't suck.

Or the mailman thread view.
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

2012-06-11 Thread John D Groenveld
In message 008c01cd4812$7399c180$5acd4480$@net, David Combs writes:
Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

Did you try Gmane's interface?
URL:http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=jo43q0%24no50%241%40tr22n12.aset.psu.edu

John
groenv...@acm.org

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Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

2012-06-11 Thread Alan Hargreaves
Title: signature

  
  
There is a ZFS Community on the Oracle Communities that was just
  kicked off this month -
https://communities.oracle.com/portal/server.pt/community/oracle_solaris_zfs_file_system/526

Regards,
  Alan Hargreaves


On 06/12/12 08:05, Tomas Forsman wrote:

  On 11 June, 2012 - David Combs sent me these 2,4K bytes:


  
Advantages to true newsgroup?

THREADS!  If you wait until a thread is finished, you can then see the entire thread, and if you want, you can download the whole thing, or just parts thereof.

Great for learning, if you're mostly a lurker, not posting answers.

That's vastly simpler than getting a thousand emails, saving them all in a file, and then having to sort them by subject-line (modified so "RE:", etc are ignored in sort key), to get them grouped by zfs-topic.  What a pain.

  
  
.. or use a mail reader that doesn't suck.


  
When via a powerful newsreader (I use trn4), all of that is done for you automatically.

  
  
mutt is probably pretty close.


  
Furthermore, at least one newsreader, trn4, via its "t" (tree) command, will draw a tree (rooted at the right side of the page, but the text oriented so you can read right-side-up, without turning your head sideways) so you can pursue topics, can see how they lay out, or better yet, delete, say, flame subthreads (surely not a problem with zfs-discuss).

Besides that, you don't have posts hitting your regular email list, diluting the urgent stuff you really do have to respond to, making it easier to miss that stuff.

Lets you keep newsgroup-TYPE stuff (eg zfs-discuss email) separate from true-email stuff.

  
  
It's called "mail filtering".


  
--

QUESTION: how much effort (for someone who already knows how, has done it before) to create a newsgroup that mirrors a listserv?

Once done, all anyone has to do is request from his friendly isp (mine is panix.com, *very* friendly) to support that new newsgroup.

Name it something like comp.unix.solaris.zfs.

Or just have it all go to comp.unix.solaris, which of course already exists.


Anyway, I hope I've answered your question.

Cheers!

David


-Original Message-
From: James C. McPherson [mailto:j...@opensolaris.org] 
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:55 PM
To: David Combs
Cc: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

On 12/06/12 06:40 AM, David Combs wrote:


  Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?



Actually, no. Where's the value in having a newsgroup as well as a mailing list?


James C. McPherson
--
Oracle
http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog
-
No virus found in this message.

  
  
Good to know, I better trust this info - just like spam that says it's
not spam :P


  
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2433/5062 - Release Date: 06/11/12

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/Tomas



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Phone: +61-2-9491-2342 | Mobile: +61-416-207-573 
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

2012-06-11 Thread dgc
You're describing primarily client differences, not server/service 
differences. Some people have been using the same tools for mail and for 
news for years, with the same benefits to each.


Right now I'm posting through GMane's NNTP interface, only to show that 
you can.  nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.os.solaris.opensolaris.zfs . 
Normally I read it as a list (using mutt), because there I get the 
entire thread, and it's downloaded in full, whether I'm lurking or 
posting answers, and they're saved in a separate folder separate from my 
inbox, separate from my true-email stuff.


And I don't have to use trn4!  Gak, that was a horrible waste of trn3.

On 6/11/12 4:55 PM, David Combs wrote:

Advantages to true newsgroup?

THREADS!  If you wait until a thread is finished, you can then see the entire 
thread, and if you want, you can download the whole thing, or just parts 
thereof.

Great for learning, if you're mostly a lurker, not posting answers.

That's vastly simpler than getting a thousand emails, saving them all in a file, and then 
having to sort them by subject-line (modified so RE:, etc are ignored in sort 
key), to get them grouped by zfs-topic.  What a pain.

When via a powerful newsreader (I use trn4), all of that is done for you 
automatically.

Furthermore, at least one newsreader, trn4, via its t (tree) command, will 
draw a tree (rooted at the right side of the page, but the text oriented so you can read 
right-side-up, without turning your head sideways) so you can pursue topics, can see how 
they lay out, or better yet, delete, say, flame subthreads (surely not a problem with 
zfs-discuss).

Besides that, you don't have posts hitting your regular email list, diluting 
the urgent stuff you really do have to respond to, making it easier to miss 
that stuff.

Lets you keep newsgroup-TYPE stuff (eg zfs-discuss email) separate from 
true-email stuff.

--

QUESTION: how much effort (for someone who already knows how, has done it 
before) to create a newsgroup that mirrors a listserv?

Once done, all anyone has to do is request from his friendly isp (mine is 
panix.com, *very* friendly) to support that new newsgroup.

Name it something like comp.unix.solaris.zfs.

Or just have it all go to comp.unix.solaris, which of course already exists.


Anyway, I hope I've answered your question.

Cheers!

David


-Original Message-
From: James C. McPherson [mailto:j...@opensolaris.org]
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 4:55 PM
To: David Combs
Cc: zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org
Subject: Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

On 12/06/12 06:40 AM, David Combs wrote:

Actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?


Actually, no. Where's the value in having a newsgroup as well as a mailing list?


James C. McPherson
--
Oracle
http://www.jmcp.homeunix.com/blog
-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2433/5062 - Release Date: 06/11/12



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Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

2012-06-11 Thread Carson Gaspar

On 6/11/12 3:12 PM, Alan Hargreaves wrote:

There is a ZFS Community on the Oracle Communities that was just kicked
off this month -
https://communities.oracle.com/portal/server.pt/community/oracle_solaris_zfs_file_system/526


Thanks for the heads up, but it's just another horrid Oracle web UI with 
next to no functionality. Given that, I doubt it will have much 
participation. But I've been wrong before


(I certainly won't be logging into Oracle's support portal every day to 
see what's new, that's for sure - email, RSS, ATOM, NNTP, _something_ 
other than polling manually in a browser...)


(I'm amazed that a company that touts its server and database 
performance thinks it's fine and dandy PR to have customer logins take 
20 seconds... sarcasmnice to see that hasn't changed since the Sun 
days/sarcasm)


--
Carson



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Re: [zfs-discuss] Is there an actual newsgroup for zfs-discuss?

2012-06-11 Thread Jens Elkner
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 08:12:48AM +1000, Alan Hargreaves wrote:
 There is a ZFS Community on the Oracle Communities that was just kicked 
 off this month - 
 https://communities.oracle.com/portal/server.pt/community/oracle_solaris_zfs_file_system/526

Ohh, another censored forum/crappy thing - no thanx!

Regards,
jel.
-- 
Otto-von-Guericke University http://www.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/
Department of Computer Science   Geb. 29 R 027, Universitaetsplatz 2
39106 Magdeburg, Germany Tel: +49 391 67 12768
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