Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-20 Thread Jim Klimov
2012-06-20 0:32, Timothy Coalson wrote: when it has 4k sectors, then in theory if First sector is a multiple of 8, it is aligned, but it will probably issue writes of size 512 which will degrade performance anyway). I think this is dependent on the firmware (vendor), and queued writes into the

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-20 Thread Richard Elling
On Jun 20, 2012, at 4:08 AM, Jim Klimov wrote: Also by default if you don't give the whole drive to ZFS, its cache may be disabled upon pool import and you may have to reenable it manually (if you only actively use this disk for one or more ZFS pools - which play with caching nicely). This

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-20 Thread Jim Klimov
2012-06-21 1:58, Richard Elling wrote: On Jun 20, 2012, at 4:08 AM, Jim Klimov wrote: Also by default if you don't give the whole drive to ZFS, its cache may be disabled upon pool import and you may have to reenable it The behaviour is to attempt to enable the disk's write cache if ZFS has

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-20 Thread Richard Elling
On Jun 20, 2012, at 5:08 PM, Jim Klimov wrote: 2012-06-21 1:58, Richard Elling wrote: On Jun 20, 2012, at 4:08 AM, Jim Klimov wrote: Also by default if you don't give the whole drive to ZFS, its cache may be disabled upon pool import and you may have to reenable it The behaviour is to

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-19 Thread Timothy Coalson
- Will I be able to buy a replacement in 3-3 years that reports the disk in such a way, that resilvering will work? According to the Advanced Format threat this seems to be a problem. I was hopimg to get arond this with these disks and have a more future proof solution I think that if you are

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-19 Thread Koopmann, Jan-Peter
Hi Timothy, I think that if you are running an illumos kernel, you can use /kernel/drv/sd.conf and tell it that the physical sectors for a disk model are 4k, despite what the disk says (and whether they really are). So, if you want an ashift=12 pool on disks that report 512 sectors, you

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-19 Thread Timothy Coalson
I think that if you are running an illumos kernel, you can use /kernel/drv/sd.conf That refers to creating a new pool and is good to know. Two things: one, it looks like you should also be able to trick it into using 512 sectors on a 4k disk, allowing you to do exactly such a replacement

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-18 Thread Koopmann, Jan-Peter
Hi Carson, I have 2 Sans Digital TR8X JBOD enclosures, and they work very well. They also make a 4-bay TR4X. http://www.sansdigital.com/towerraid/tr4xb.html http://www.sansdigital.com/towerraid/tr8xb.html looks nice! The only thing coming to mind is that according to the specifications

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-18 Thread Fajar A. Nugraha
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Koopmann, Jan-Peter jan-pe...@koopmann.eu wrote: Hi Carson, I have 2 Sans Digital TR8X JBOD enclosures, and they work very well. They also make a 4-bay TR4X. http://www.sansdigital.com/towerraid/tr4xb.html http://www.sansdigital.com/towerraid/tr8xb.html

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-18 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012, Koopmann, Jan-Peter wrote: looks nice! The only thing coming to mind is that according to the specifications the enclosure is 3Gbits only. If I choose to put in a SSD with 6Gbits this would be not optimal. I looked at their site but failed to find 6GBit enclosures. But I

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-18 Thread Koopmann, Jan-Peter
Hi Bob, On Mon, 18 Jun 2012, Koopmann, Jan-Peter wrote: looks nice! The only thing coming to mind is that according to the specifications the enclosure is 3Gbits only. If I choose to put in a SSD with 6Gbits this would be not optimal. I looked at their site but failed to find 6GBit

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-18 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012, Koopmann, Jan-Peter wrote: I browsed the site and saw many 6GBit enclosures.  I also saw one with Nexenta (Solaris/zfs appliance) inside. I found several high end enclosures. Or ones with bundled RAID cards. But the equivalent of the one originally suggested I was not

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-18 Thread Carson Gaspar
On 6/18/12 12:19 AM, Koopmann, Jan-Peter wrote: Hi Carson, I have 2 Sans Digital TR8X JBOD enclosures, and they work very well. They also make a 4-bay TR4X. http://www.sansdigital.com/towerraid/tr4xb.html http://www.sansdigital.com/towerraid/tr8xb.html looks nice! The only

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-18 Thread Koopmann, Jan-Peter
Thanks. Just noticed that the Hitachi 3TB drives are not available. The 4TB ones are but with 512b emulated only. However I can get Barracudas 7200.14 with supposedly real 4k quite cheap. Anyone any experience with those? I might be getting one or two more and go for z2 instead of z1. I even

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-18 Thread Carson Gaspar
On 6/18/12 4:07 PM, Koopmann, Jan-Peter wrote: Thanks. Just noticed that the Hitachi 3TB drives are not available. The 4TB ones are but with 512b emulated only. However I can get Barracudas 7200.14 with supposedly real 4k quite cheap. Anyone any experience with those? I might be getting one or

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-18 Thread Timothy Coalson
What makes you think the Barracuda 7200.14 drives report 4k sectors? I gave up looking for 4kn drives, as everything I could find was 512e. I would _love_ to be wrong, as I have 8 4TB Hitachis on backorder that I would gladly replace with 4kn drives, even if I had to drop to 3TB density. I

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-18 Thread Nigel W
On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Carson Gaspar car...@taltos.org wrote: What makes you think the Barracuda 7200.14 drives report 4k sectors? I gave up looking for 4kn drives, as everything I could find was 512e. I would _love_ to be wrong, as I have 8 4TB Hitachis on backorder that I would

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-18 Thread Bob Friesenhahn
On Mon, 18 Jun 2012, Carson Gaspar wrote: What makes you think the Barracuda 7200.14 drives report 4k sectors? I gave up looking for 4kn drives, as everything I could find was 512e. I would _love_ to be wrong, as I have 8 4TB Hitachis on backorder that I would gladly replace with 4kn drives,

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-18 Thread Koopmann, Jan-Peter
What makes you think the Barracuda 7200.14 drives report 4k sectors? http://www.mail-archive.com/zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org/msg48912.html Nigel stated this here a few days ago. I did not check for myself. Maybe Nigel can comment on this? As for the question why do you want 4k drives: My

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-17 Thread Timothy Coalson
So I can either exchange the disks one by one with autoexpand, use 2-4 TB disks and be happy. This was my original approach. However I am totally unclear about the 512b vs 4Kb issue. What sata disk could I use that is big enough and still uses 512b? I know about the discussion about the

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-17 Thread Jim Klimov
2012-06-17 19:11, Koopmann, Jan-Peter пишет: Hi, my oi151 based home NAS is approaching a frightening drive space level. Right now the data volume is a 4*1TB Raid-Z1, 3 1/2 local disks individually connected to an 8 port LSI 6Gbit controller. So I can either exchange the disks one by one with

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-17 Thread Daniel Carosone
On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 03:19:18PM -0500, Timothy Coalson wrote: Replacing devices will not change the ashift, it is set permanently when a vdev is created, and zpool will refuse to replace a device in an ashift=9 vdev with a device that it would use ashift=12 on. Yep. [..] while hitachi

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-17 Thread Koopmann, Jan-Peter
Hi Tim, thanks to you and the others for answering. worst case). The worst case for 512 emulated sectors on zfs is probably small (4KB or so) synchronous writes (which if they mattered to you, you would probably have a separate log device, in which case the data disk write penalty may not

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-17 Thread Carson Gaspar
On 6/17/12 3:21 PM, Koopmann, Jan-Peter wrote: Hi Tim, you might be able to use an adapter to the SFF-8088 external 4 lane SAS connector, which may increase your options. So what you are saying is that something like this will do the trick?

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-17 Thread Timothy Coalson
worst case).  The worst case for 512 emulated sectors on zfs is probably small (4KB or so) synchronous writes (which if they mattered to you, you would probably have a separate log device, in which case the data disk write penalty may not matter). Good to know. This really opens up the

Re: [zfs-discuss] Recommendation for home NAS external JBOD

2012-06-17 Thread Carson Gaspar
On 6/17/12 6:36 PM, Timothy Coalson wrote: No problem, and yes, I think that should work. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that if the internals of the enclosure simply split the multilane SAS cable into 4 connectors without an expander, and you use SATA drives, the controller will use