Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
On Thu, February 16, 2012 11:18, Paul Kraus wrote: On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:42 AM, David Dyer-Bennet d...@dd-b.net wrote: I'm seriously thinking of going Nexenta, as I think it would let me be a little less of a sysadmin. Solaris 11 express is tempting in its own way though, if I decide the price is tolerable. I looked at the Nexenta route, and while it is _very_ attractive, I need my home server to function as DHCP and DNS server as well (and a couple other services would be nice as well). Since Nexenta is a storage appliance, I could not go that route and get what I needed without hacking into it. Ah, that might be a problem. Not those specific services currently, but I do now and then run things. MRTG, maybe Nagios, are on the list to do (though it's so much harder to get anything like that going on Solaris, I'm tempted to run a linux virtual server; that would be on the same box though, so still a problem). -- David Dyer-Bennet, d...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
On 02/17/12 03:54 AM, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: If you consider paying for solaris - at Oracle, you just pay them for An OS and they don't care which one you use. Could be oracle linux, solaris, or solaris express. I would recommend solaris 11 express based on personal experience. It gets bugfixes and new features sooner than commercial solaris. Solaris 11 express is long gone. You don't just pay them for An OS. Compare the sensible support pricing for their Linux offering the the ridiculous price for Solaris. -- Ian. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:38:07PM -0800, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: Thanks. Given the pricing for commercial Solaris versions, I don't think moving to them is likely to ever be important to me. It looks like OI and Nexenta are the viable choices I have to look at. Another option soon to be available is Illumian: http://www.illumian.org/ It's roughly the same as OpenIndiana but using Debian packaging rather than IPS. -- Paul B. Henson | (909) 979-6361 | http://www.csupomona.edu/~henson/ Operating Systems and Network Analyst | hen...@csupomona.edu California State Polytechnic University | Pomona CA 91768 ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of andy thomas One of my most vital servers is a Netra 150 dating from 1997 - still going strong, crammed with 12 x 300 Gb disks and running Solaris 9. I think one ought to have more faith in Sun hardware. If it's one of your most vital, I think you should have less faith in Sun hardware. If it's one of your nobody really cares, I can easily replace it, servers then... sounds good. Keep it on as long as it's alive. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of David Dyer-Bennet While I'm not in need of upgrading my server at an emergency level, I'm starting to think about it -- to be prepared (and an upgrade could be triggered by a failure at this point; my server dates to 2006). There are only a few options for you to consider. I don't know which ones support encryption, or which ones offer an upgrade path from your version of opensolaris, but I figure you can probably easily evaluate each of the options for your own purposes. No matter which you use, I assume you will be exporting the data pool, and later importing it. But the OS will either need to be wiped and reinstalled from scratch, or obviously, follow your upgrade path (which has never worked for me; I invariably end up wiping the OS and reinstalling. Good thing I keep documentation about how I configure my OS.) Nexenta, OpenIndiana, Solaris 11 Express (free version only permitted for certain uses, no regular updates available), or commercial Solaris. If you consider paying for solaris - at Oracle, you just pay them for An OS and they don't care which one you use. Could be oracle linux, solaris, or solaris express. I would recommend solaris 11 express based on personal experience. It gets bugfixes and new features sooner than commercial solaris. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of andy thomas One of my most vital servers is a Netra 150 dating from 1997 - still going strong, crammed with 12 x 300 Gb disks and running Solaris 9. I think one ought to have more faith in Sun hardware. If it's one of your most vital, I think you should have less faith in Sun hardware. If it's one of your nobody really cares, I can easily replace it, servers then... sounds good. Keep it on as long as it's alive. Well, it's used as an off-site backup server whose content is in addition mirrored to another Linux server internally and as all the Netra's disks are UFS, if I ever had a problem with it I'd just pull them all out and transfer them to an E450 and power that on in its place. Andy - Andy Thomas, Time Domain Systems Tel: +44 (0)7866 556626 Fax: +44 (0)20 8372 2582 http://www.time-domain.co.uk ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
I would recommend solaris 11 express based on personal experience. It gets bugfixes and new features sooner than commercial solaris. I thought they stopped making 11 Express available when 11 went out? ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
On Thu, February 16, 2012 08:54, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of David Dyer-Bennet While I'm not in need of upgrading my server at an emergency level, I'm starting to think about it -- to be prepared (and an upgrade could be triggered by a failure at this point; my server dates to 2006). There are only a few options for you to consider. I don't know which ones support encryption, or which ones offer an upgrade path from your version of opensolaris, but I figure you can probably easily evaluate each of the options for your own purposes. No matter which you use, I assume you will be exporting the data pool, and later importing it. But the OS will either need to be wiped and reinstalled from scratch, or obviously, follow your upgrade path (which has never worked for me; I invariably end up wiping the OS and reinstalling. Good thing I keep documentation about how I configure my OS.) This is already getting useful; which has never worked for me for example is the sort of observation I find informative, since I've been seeing your name around here for some time and have the general impression that you're not stupid or incompetent. Yeah, I'll try to export and import the pool. AND I'll have three current backups on external drives, at least one out of the house and at least one in the house :-). I'm kind of fond of this data, and wouldn't like anything to happen to it (I could recover some of the last decade of photography from optical disks, with a lot of work, and the online copies would remain but those aren't high-res). Nexenta, OpenIndiana, Solaris 11 Express (free version only permitted for certain uses, no regular updates available), or commercial Solaris. If you consider paying for solaris - at Oracle, you just pay them for An OS and they don't care which one you use. Could be oracle linux, solaris, or solaris express. I would recommend solaris 11 express based on personal experience. It gets bugfixes and new features sooner than commercial solaris. I was going to say the commercial version wasn't an option -- but on consideration, I haven't done the research to determine that. So that's a task (how hard can it be to find out how much they want?). Listing the options is extremely useful, in fact. Even though I've heard of all of them, seeing how you group things helps me too. I'm seriously thinking of going Nexenta, as I think it would let me be a little less of a sysadmin. Solaris 11 express is tempting in its own way though, if I decide the price is tolerable. -- David Dyer-Bennet, d...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 11:42 AM, David Dyer-Bennet d...@dd-b.net wrote:
I'm seriously thinking of going Nexenta, as I think it would let me be a
little less of a sysadmin. Solaris 11 express is tempting in its own way
though, if I decide the price is tolerable.
I looked at the Nexenta route, and while it is _very_ attractive,
I need my home server to function as DHCP and DNS server as well (and
a couple other services would be nice as well). Since Nexenta is a
storage appliance, I could not go that route and get what I needed
without hacking into it.
--
{1-2-3-4-5-6-7-}
Paul Kraus
- Senior Systems Architect, Garnet River ( http://www.garnetriver.com/ )
- Sound Coordinator, Schenectady Light Opera Company (
http://www.sloctheater.org/ )
- Technical Advisor, Troy Civic Theatre Company
- Technical Advisor, RPI Players
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Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of David Dyer-Bennet This is already getting useful; which has never worked for me for example is the sort of observation I find informative, since I've been seeing your name around here for some time and have the general impression that you're not stupid or incompetent. Just because I talk a lot doesn't mean I'm not stupid or incompetent. ;-) I basically never trust anything, and avoid all processes that introduce any variability into a process that I want to be repeatable. For example, if a server goes down in a horrible display, I want to know I can bring up a new replacement doing the same stuff. So I document the whole setup process from blank disks to operation. I know I can do that again in the future - But I don't want to perform an upgrade in the future. So I habitually avoid doing it. Not on solaris, windows, macs, linux, or anywhere, as long as I can avoid it. I'm OCD about avoiding OS upgrades. Other people here would be able to speak much better than me, about whether or not the upgrade process works, under which situations, given what caveats, etc. So, the opinion I expressed above is not so much a reflection of what's good for you, as it is a reflection of my personal psychoses. Never worked for me, in this case, basically means I tried upgrading from one opensolaris to another... which went horribly wrong... And even when applying system updates (paid commercial solaris 10 support, applying security patches etc) those often cause problems too. But I wouldn't call them horribly wrong. I've never tried going from opensolaris to any other OS... Sol, Nex, OI. I was going to say the commercial version wasn't an option -- but on consideration, I haven't done the research to determine that. So that's a task (how hard can it be to find out how much they want?). You mean, how much it costs? http://oracle.com click on Store, and Solaris. Looks like $1,000 per socket per year for 1-4 sockets. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
On Thu, February 16, 2012 13:31, Edward Ned Harvey wrote: From: zfs-discuss-boun...@opensolaris.org [mailto:zfs-discuss- boun...@opensolaris.org] On Behalf Of David Dyer-Bennet This is already getting useful; which has never worked for me for example is the sort of observation I find informative, since I've been seeing your name around here for some time and have the general impression that you're not stupid or incompetent. Just because I talk a lot doesn't mean I'm not stupid or incompetent. ;-) I resemble that remark! But, slightly more seriously, I've read what you said, not just noticed the volume :-). Never worked for me, in this case, basically means I tried upgrading from one opensolaris to another... which went horribly wrong... And even when applying system updates (paid commercial solaris 10 support, applying security patches etc) those often cause problems too. But I wouldn't call them horribly wrong. I've gotten at least that to work a few times. But for me, keeping up with OS upgrades is one of the most important sysadmin tasks. Otherwise, you're leaving unpatched vulnerabilities sitting around. I was going to say the commercial version wasn't an option -- but on consideration, I haven't done the research to determine that. So that's a task (how hard can it be to find out how much they want?). You mean, how much it costs? http://oracle.com click on Store, and Solaris. Looks like $1,000 per socket per year for 1-4 sockets. You beat me to it. And if that's the order of magnitude, then I was right the first time, the commercial versions are completely out of the question. I might, if I felt really friendly towards Oracle, consider a one-shot payment of 1/10 or maybe a little more :-). -- David Dyer-Bennet, d...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
On Wed, February 15, 2012 18:06, Brandon High wrote: On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:16 AM, David Dyer-Bennet d...@dd-b.net wrote: Is there an upgrade path from (I think I'm running Solaris Express) to something modern? (That could be an Oracle distribution, or the free There *was* an upgrade path from snv_134 to snv_151a (Solaris 11 Express) but I don't know if Oracle still supports it. There was an intermediate step or two along the way (snv_134b I think?) to move from OpenSolaris to Oracle Solaris. As others mentioned, you could jump to OpenIndiana from your current version. You may not be able to move between OI and S11 in the future, so it's a somewhat important decision. Thanks. Given the pricing for commercial Solaris versions, I don't think moving to them is likely to ever be important to me. It looks like OI and Nexenta are the viable choices I have to look at. -- David Dyer-Bennet, d...@dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/ Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/ Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/ Dragaera: http://dragaera.info ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
On 15/02/2012 17:16, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: While I'm not in need of upgrading my server at an emergency level, I'm starting to think about it -- to be prepared (and an upgrade could be triggered by a failure at this point; my server dates to 2006). I'm actually more concerned with software than hardware. My load is small, the current hardware is handling it no problem. I don't see myself as a candidate for dedup, so I don't need to add huge quantities of RAM. I'm handling compression on backups just fine (the USB external disks are the choke-point, so compression actually speeds up the backups). I'd like to be on a current software stream that I can easily update with bug-fixes and new features. The way I used to do that got broke in the Oracle takeover. I'm interested in encryption for my backups, if that's functional (and safe) in current software versions. I take copies off-site, so that's a useful precaution. Whatever I do, I'll of course make sure my backups are ALL up-to-date and at least one is back off-site before I do anything drastic. Is there an upgrade path from (I think I'm running Solaris Express) to something modern? (That could be an Oracle distribution, or the free software fork, or some Nexenta distribution; my current data pool is 1.8T, and I don't expect it to grow terribly fast, so the fully-featured free version fits my needs for example.) Upgrading might perhaps save me from changing all the user passwords (half a dozen, not a huge problem) and software packages I've added. (uname -a says SunOS fsfs 5.11 snv_134 i86pc i386 i86pc). so this is the last opensoalris release ( ie not Solaris express ) S11 express was build 151, this is older again. Not sure if there is an upgrade path to express from opensolaris. I don't think there is. And S11 itself is now the latest, it's based off build 175b. There is an upgrade patch from Express to S11, but not from opensolaris to Express if I remember correctly. Or should I just export my pool and do a from-scratch install of something? (Then recreate the users and install any missing software. I've got some cron jobs, too.) AND, what something should I upgrade to or install? I've tried a couple of times to figure out the alternatives and it's never really clear to me what my good options are. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: version fits my needs for example.) Upgrading might perhaps save me from changing all the user passwords (half a dozen, not a huge problem) and software packages I've added. (uname -a says SunOS fsfs 5.11 snv_134 i86pc i386 i86pc). Or should I just export my pool and do a from-scratch install of something? (Then recreate the users and install any missing software. I've got some cron jobs, too.) I have read (on the OpenIndiana site) that there is an upgrade path from what you have to OpenIndiana. They describe the procedure to use. OpenIndiana does not yet include encryption support in zfs since encryption support was never released into OpenSolaris. If I was you, I would try the upgrade to OpenIndiana first. The alternative is paid and supported Oracle Solaris 11, which would require a from-scratch install, and may or may not even be an option for you. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: While I'm not in need of upgrading my server at an emergency level, I'm starting to think about it -- to be prepared (and an upgrade could be triggered by a failure at this point; my server dates to 2006). One of my most vital servers is a Netra 150 dating from 1997 - still going strong, crammed with 12 x 300 Gb disks and running Solaris 9. I think one ought to have more faith in Sun hardware. Andy ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Server upgrade
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:16 AM, David Dyer-Bennet d...@dd-b.net wrote: Is there an upgrade path from (I think I'm running Solaris Express) to something modern? (That could be an Oracle distribution, or the free There *was* an upgrade path from snv_134 to snv_151a (Solaris 11 Express) but I don't know if Oracle still supports it. There was an intermediate step or two along the way (snv_134b I think?) to move from OpenSolaris to Oracle Solaris. As others mentioned, you could jump to OpenIndiana from your current version. You may not be able to move between OI and S11 in the future, so it's a somewhat important decision. -B -- Brandon High : bh...@freaks.com ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
