Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-29 Thread Frank Cusack
I haven't been able to get this working.  To keep it simpler, next I am
going to try usbcopy of the live USB image in the VM, and see if I can boot
real hardware from the resultant live USB stick.

On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 5:25 AM, Fajar A. Nugraha l...@fajar.net wrote:

 On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Jim Klimov jimkli...@cos.ru wrote:
  Or maybe not.  I guess this was findroot() in sol10 but in sol11 this
  seems to have gone away.
 
  I haven't used sol11 yet, so I can't say for certain.
  But it is possible that the default boot (without findroot)
  would use the bootfs property of your root pool.

 Nope.

 S11's grub specifies bootfs for every stanza in menu.lst. bootfs pool
 property is no longer used.

 Anyway, after some testing, I found out you CAN use vbox-installed s11
 usb stick on real notebook (enough hardware difference there). The
 trick is you have to import-export the pool on the system you're going
 to boot the stick on. Meaning, you need to have S11 live cd/usb handy
 and boot with that first before booting using your disk.

 --
 Fajar
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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-29 Thread Fajar A. Nugraha
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote:
 I haven't been able to get this working.  To keep it simpler, next I am
 going to try usbcopy of the live USB image in the VM, and see if I can boot
 real hardware from the resultant live USB stick.

To be clear, I'm talking about two things:
(1) live USB, created from Live CD
(2) solaris installed on USB

This first one works on real hardware, but not on a VM. The cause is
simple: seems like a boot code somewhere searches ONLY removable media
for live solaris image. Since you need to map the USB disk as regular
disk (SATA/IDE/SCSI) in a VM to be able to boot from it, you won't be
able to boot live usb on a VM.

The second one works on both real hardare and VM, BUT with a
prequisite that you have to export-import rpool first on that
particular system. Unless you already have solaris installed, this
usually means you need to boot with a live cd/usb first.

I'm not sure what you mean by usbcopy of the live USB image in the
VM, and see if I can boot real hardware from the resultant live USB
stick.. If you're trying to create (1), it'd be simpler to just use
live cd on real hardware, and if necessary create live usb there (MUCH
faster than on a VM). If you mean (2), then it won't work unless you
boot with live cd/usb first.

Oh and for reference, instead of usbcopy, I prefer using this method:
http://blogs.oracle.com/jim/entry/how_to_create_a_usb

-- 
Fajar


 On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 5:25 AM, Fajar A. Nugraha l...@fajar.net wrote:

 On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Jim Klimov jimkli...@cos.ru wrote:
  Or maybe not.  I guess this was findroot() in sol10 but in sol11 this
  seems to have gone away.
 
  I haven't used sol11 yet, so I can't say for certain.
  But it is possible that the default boot (without findroot)
  would use the bootfs property of your root pool.

 Nope.

 S11's grub specifies bootfs for every stanza in menu.lst. bootfs pool
 property is no longer used.

 Anyway, after some testing, I found out you CAN use vbox-installed s11
 usb stick on real notebook (enough hardware difference there). The
 trick is you have to import-export the pool on the system you're going
 to boot the stick on. Meaning, you need to have S11 live cd/usb handy
 and boot with that first before booting using your disk.

 --
 Fajar
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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-29 Thread Frank Cusack
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Fajar A. Nugraha l...@fajar.net wrote:

 On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote:
  I haven't been able to get this working.  To keep it simpler, next I am
  going to try usbcopy of the live USB image in the VM, and see if I can
 boot
  real hardware from the resultant live USB stick.

 To be clear, I'm talking about two things:
 (1) live USB, created from Live CD
 (2) solaris installed on USB


yup



 This first one works on real hardware, but not on a VM. The cause is
 simple: seems like a boot code somewhere searches ONLY removable media
 for live solaris image. Since you need to map the USB disk as regular
 disk (SATA/IDE/SCSI) in a VM to be able to boot from it, you won't be
 able to boot live usb on a VM.


yup



 The second one works on both real hardare and VM, BUT with a
 prequisite that you have to export-import rpool first on that
 particular system. Unless you already have solaris installed, this
 usually means you need to boot with a live cd/usb first.


yup.  I didn't quite do that, what I did is exit to shell after installing
(from install CD) onto the USB.  Then in the shell from the install CD I
did the zpool export.  The resultant USB is still unbootable for me on real
hardware.

During this install, the USB is seen as a SATA disk.  I tried to install
onto it as a pass through USB device, but a python script in the installer
that tries to label the disk fails.  This is likely because it has to
invoke 'format -e' instead of 'format' in order to see the USB disk in the
first place.  When you invoke the 'label' command, if you have invoked
'format' as 'format -e' you get prompted whether you want an SMI or EFI
label.  The python script doesn't know about this and wants to just do 'y'
or 'n'.

In S10, I have no problem installing on real hardware onto a USB stick
(seen as USB), so I imagine this is just a deficiency of the new S11
installer.

Anyway, the point of that story is that I tried to install onto it as as
USB device, instead of as a SATA device, in case something special happens
to make USB bootable that doesn't happen when the S11 installer thinks it's
a SATA device.  But I was unable to complete that test.


 I'm not sure what you mean by usbcopy of the live USB image in the
 VM, and see if I can boot real hardware from the resultant live USB
 stick.. If you're trying to create (1), it'd be simpler to just use
 live cd on real hardware, and if necessary create live usb there (MUCH
 faster than on a VM). If you mean (2), then it won't work unless you
 boot with live cd/usb first.


I meant (1), because I think this is an easier case to try out than (2).
(1) should DEFINITELY work, IMHO.

I don't use live cd on real hardware because that doesn't meet my objective
of being able to create a removable boot drive, created in a VM, that I can
boot on real hardware if I wanted to.  I mean, I *could* do it that way,
but I want to be able to do this in a 100% VM environment.



 Oh and for reference, instead of usbcopy, I prefer using this method:
 http://blogs.oracle.com/jim/entry/how_to_create_a_usb


Thanks, I'll check it out.



 --
 Fajar

 
  On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 5:25 AM, Fajar A. Nugraha l...@fajar.net
 wrote:
 
  On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Jim Klimov jimkli...@cos.ru wrote:
   Or maybe not.  I guess this was findroot() in sol10 but in sol11 this
   seems to have gone away.
  
   I haven't used sol11 yet, so I can't say for certain.
   But it is possible that the default boot (without findroot)
   would use the bootfs property of your root pool.
 
  Nope.
 
  S11's grub specifies bootfs for every stanza in menu.lst. bootfs pool
  property is no longer used.
 
  Anyway, after some testing, I found out you CAN use vbox-installed s11
  usb stick on real notebook (enough hardware difference there). The
  trick is you have to import-export the pool on the system you're going
  to boot the stick on. Meaning, you need to have S11 live cd/usb handy
  and boot with that first before booting using your disk.
 
  --
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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-29 Thread Fajar A. Nugraha
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote:
 The second one works on both real hardare and VM, BUT with a
 prequisite that you have to export-import rpool first on that
 particular system. Unless you already have solaris installed, this
 usually means you need to boot with a live cd/usb first.


 yup.  I didn't quite do that, what I did is exit to shell after installing
 (from install CD) onto the USB.  Then in the shell from the install CD I did
 the zpool export.  The resultant USB is still unbootable for me on real
 hardware.

It won't work unless you did export-import on the real hardware. Blame
oracle for that. Even zfsonlinux can work without this hassle.

... then again your kind of use case is probably not the supported
configuration anyway, and there's no incentive for Oracle to fix it
:)


 Anyway, the point of that story is that I tried to install onto it as as USB
 device, instead of as a SATA device, in case something special happens to
 make USB bootable that doesn't happen when the S11 installer thinks it's a
 SATA device.  But I was unable to complete that test.

Not sure about solaris, but in linux grub1 installation would fail in
the BIOS does not list the disk as bootable. Virtualbox definitely
does not support booting from passthru-usb, so that may be the source
of your problem.

Mapping it as SATA disk should work as expected.

 I don't use live cd on real hardware because that doesn't meet my objective
 of being able to create a removable boot drive, created in a VM, that I can
 boot on real hardware if I wanted to.  I mean, I could do it that way, but I
 want to be able to do this in a 100% VM environment.

I use ubuntu for that, which works fine :D
It also supports zfs (via zfsonlinux), albeit limited to pool version
28 (same as openindiana)

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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-22 Thread Jim Klimov

2011-11-22 10:24, Frank Cusack пишет:

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:06 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net
mailto:fr...@linetwo.net wrote:

grub does need to have an idea of the device path, maybe in vbox
it's seen as the 3rd disk (c0t2), so the boot device name written to
grub.conf is disk3 (whatever the terminology for that is in
grub-speak), but when I boot on the Sun hardware it is seen as
disk0 and this just doesn't work.  If it's that easy that'd be
awesome, all I need is an alternate grub entry.




Regarding the disk numbering, GRUB and other x86 loaders
assume that the current BIOS boot disk (one passed from
BIOS as the boot device) is always number zero. Numbering
of secondary drives may vary from boot to boot (i.e. if
you boot from one or another disk of a mirrored root).




Or maybe not.  I guess this was findroot() in sol10 but in sol11 this
seems to have gone away.


I haven't used sol11 yet, so I can't say for certain.
But it is possible that the default boot (without findroot)
would use the bootfs property of your root pool. At least
that's the way it worked in intermediate SXCE releases,
where you had to set the whole bootfs path (zfs dataset
name) in grub menu, or use the bootfs property.





Also, I was wrong about the disk target.  When I do the install I
configure the USB stick at disk0, seen by Solaris as c3t0, and no
findroot() line gets written to menu.lst.  Maybe it needs that line when
it boots as a USB still on real hardware?

I'll try import/export and a reconfigure boot when I get a chance.


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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-22 Thread Fajar A. Nugraha
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Jim Klimov jimkli...@cos.ru wrote:
 Or maybe not.  I guess this was findroot() in sol10 but in sol11 this
 seems to have gone away.

 I haven't used sol11 yet, so I can't say for certain.
 But it is possible that the default boot (without findroot)
 would use the bootfs property of your root pool.

Nope.

S11's grub specifies bootfs for every stanza in menu.lst. bootfs pool
property is no longer used.

Anyway, after some testing, I found out you CAN use vbox-installed s11
usb stick on real notebook (enough hardware difference there). The
trick is you have to import-export the pool on the system you're going
to boot the stick on. Meaning, you need to have S11 live cd/usb handy
and boot with that first before booting using your disk.

-- 
Fajar
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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-21 Thread Fajar A. Nugraha
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote:
 I have a Sun machine running Solaris 10, and a Vbox instance running Solaris
 11 11/11.  The vbox machine has a virtual disk pointing to /dev/disk1
 (rawdisk), seen in sol11 as c0t2.

 If I create a zpool on the Sun s10 machine, on a USB stick, I can take that
 USB stick and access it through the vbox virtual disk.  Just as expected.

 If I boot vbox from the s11 ISO, and install s11 onto USB stick (via the
 virtual device), I can boot the Sun machine from it, which puts up the grub
 menu but then fails to boot Solaris.  There's some kind of error which might
 not be making it to /SP/console, but after grub it seems to hang for a few
 seconds then reboot.

 The vbox happens to be running on Mac OS 10.6.x.

 This *should* work, yes?  Any thoughts as to why it doesn't?

 Not that this should matter, but on the vbox machine, sol11 sees the USB
 stick as a normal SATA hard drive, e.g. when I run 'format' it is in the
 list of drives.  On the Sun machine, it is seen as a removable drive by s10,
 e.g. I have to run 'format -e' to see the drive.

So basically the question is if you install solaris on one machine,
can you move the disk (in this case the usb stick) to another machine
and boot it there, right?

The answer, as far as I know, is NO, you can't. Of course, I could be
wrong though (and in this case I'll be happy if I'm wrong :D ). IIRC
the only supported way to move (or clone) solaris installation is by
using flash archive (flar), which (now) should also work on zfs.

-- 
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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-21 Thread Frank Cusack
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Fajar A. Nugraha w...@fajar.net wrote:

 So basically the question is if you install solaris on one machine,
 can you move the disk (in this case the usb stick) to another machine
 and boot it there, right?


Yes, but one of the machines is a virtual machine.

The answer, as far as I know, is NO, you can't. Of course, I could be
 wrong though (and in this case I'll be happy if I'm wrong :D ). IIRC
 the only supported way to move (or clone) solaris installation is by
 using flash archive (flar), which (now) should also work on zfs.


If we ignore the vbox aspect of it, and assume real hardware with real
devices, of course you can install on one x86 hardware and move the drive
to boot on another x86 hardware.  This is harder on SPARC (b/c hostid and
zfs mount issues) but still possible.

The weird thing here is that the install hardware is a virtual machine.
One thing I know is odd is that the USB drive is seen to the virtual
machine as a SATA drive but when moved to the real hardware it's seen as a
USB drive.  There may be something else going on here that someone more
familiar with vbox may know more about.

Since this works seamlessly when the zpool in question is just a data pool,
I'm wondering why it doesn't work when it's a boot drive.

One thing I noticed is that when mounting it as a data drive, the real
hardware sees the type of disk (between ... in 'format' output) as
ATA-VBOX.  Clearly that info must have been written when the pool was
created on vbox, and maybe some hardware info was encoded that doesn't
match up when it's booted as a real USB stick.  This doesn't to matter when
it's a data pool but maybe this is tripping it up during boot.
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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-21 Thread Fajar A. Nugraha
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Fajar A. Nugraha w...@fajar.net wrote:

 So basically the question is if you install solaris on one machine,
 can you move the disk (in this case the usb stick) to another machine
 and boot it there, right?

 Yes, but one of the machines is a virtual machine.

It shouldn't matter, really. As far as solaris (or any other is) is
concerned, it's just a different machine.


 The answer, as far as I know, is NO, you can't. Of course, I could be
 wrong though (and in this case I'll be happy if I'm wrong :D ). IIRC
 the only supported way to move (or clone) solaris installation is by
 using flash archive (flar), which (now) should also work on zfs.


 If we ignore the vbox aspect of it, and assume real hardware with real
 devices, of course you can install on one x86 hardware and move the drive to
 boot on another x86 hardware.  This is harder on SPARC (b/c hostid and zfs
 mount issues) but still possible.

Have you tried? :D

IIRC there was a discussion about it (several years ago, I think), and
the issue back then was that there might be some necessary device
nodes not available when you simply move the disk around.


 The weird thing here is that the install hardware is a virtual machine.  One
 thing I know is odd is that the USB drive is seen to the virtual machine as
 a SATA drive

That's how it works when you use rawdisk passthrough. Virtualbox does
not have the necessary USB-boot support (yet).
Think of it like you have a SATA disk with usb enclosure, but now you
remove the enclosure and plug it directly to the onboard SATA
controller.

 but when moved to the real hardware it's seen as a USB drive.

... and that's how it should be

 There may be something else going on here that someone more familiar with
 vbox may know more about.

 Since this works seamlessly when the zpool in question is just a data pool,
 I'm wondering why it doesn't work when it's a boot drive.

I have a hunch that it might be something related to grub. Trying something ...

-- 
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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-21 Thread Frank Cusack
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Fajar A. Nugraha w...@fajar.net wrote:


 On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote:
 
  If we ignore the vbox aspect of it, and assume real hardware with real
  devices, of course you can install on one x86 hardware and move the
 drive to
  boot on another x86 hardware.  This is harder on SPARC (b/c hostid and
 zfs
  mount issues) but still possible.

 Have you tried? :D


Yes, I do this all the time.  Between identical hardware, though.  It used
to be tricky when you had to know actual device paths and/or /dev/dsk/*
names but with zfs that issue has gone away and it doesn't matter if drives
show up at different locations when moving the boot drive around.
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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-21 Thread Fajar A. Nugraha
On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Fajar A. Nugraha w...@fajar.net wrote:

 On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote:
 
  If we ignore the vbox aspect of it, and assume real hardware with real
  devices, of course you can install on one x86 hardware and move the
  drive to
  boot on another x86 hardware.  This is harder on SPARC (b/c hostid and
  zfs
  mount issues) but still possible.

 Have you tried? :D

 Yes, I do this all the time.  Between identical hardware, though.  It used
 to be tricky when you had to know actual device paths and/or /dev/dsk/*
 names but with zfs that issue has gone away and it doesn't matter if drives
 show up at different locations when moving the boot drive around.


Ah, you're more experienced that I am then. In that case you might want to try:
- boot with live CD on your sun box
- plug your usb drive there
- force-import then export your usb root pool (to eliminate any disk
path or ID problem)
- try boot from usb drive
- if the above still doesn't work, try running installgrub:
http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Troubleshooting_Guide#ZFS_Root_Pool_and_Boot_Issues

I'm still trying to install sol11 on USB, but it's dreadfully slow on
my system (not sure why)

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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-21 Thread Frank Cusack
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Fajar A. Nugraha w...@fajar.net wrote:

 On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote:
  On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Fajar A. Nugraha w...@fajar.net
 wrote:
 
  On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net
 wrote:
  
   If we ignore the vbox aspect of it, and assume real hardware with real
   devices, of course you can install on one x86 hardware and move the
   drive to
   boot on another x86 hardware.  This is harder on SPARC (b/c hostid and
   zfs
   mount issues) but still possible.
 
  Have you tried? :D
 
  Yes, I do this all the time.  Between identical hardware, though.  It
 used
  to be tricky when you had to know actual device paths and/or /dev/dsk/*
  names but with zfs that issue has gone away and it doesn't matter if
 drives
  show up at different locations when moving the boot drive around.
 

 Ah, you're more experienced that I am then. In that case you might want to
 try:
 - boot with live CD on your sun box
 - plug your usb drive there
 - force-import then export your usb root pool (to eliminate any disk
 path or ID problem)


ah, good idea


 - try boot from usb drive
 - if the above still doesn't work, try running installgrub:

 http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Troubleshooting_Guide#ZFS_Root_Pool_and_Boot_Issues


grub does need to have an idea of the device path, maybe in vbox it's seen
as the 3rd disk (c0t2), so the boot device name written to grub.conf is
disk3 (whatever the terminology for that is in grub-speak), but when I
boot on the Sun hardware it is seen as disk0 and this just doesn't work.
If it's that easy that'd be awesome, all I need is an alternate grub entry.

I'm still trying to install sol11 on USB, but it's dreadfully slow on
 my system (not sure why)


Same here, sustained write to a USB stick is painfully slow.  Normal
operation is fine though.
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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-21 Thread Nico Williams
Moving boot disks from one machine to another used to work as long as
the machines were of the same architecture.  I don't recall if it was
*supported* (and wouldn't want to pretend to speak for Oracle now),
but it was meant to work (unless you minimized the install and removed
drivers not needed on the first system that are needed on the other
system).  You did have to do a reconfigure boot though!

Nico
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Re: [zfs-discuss] virtualbox rawdisk discrepancy

2011-11-21 Thread Frank Cusack
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 10:06 PM, Frank Cusack fr...@linetwo.net wrote:

 grub does need to have an idea of the device path, maybe in vbox it's seen
 as the 3rd disk (c0t2), so the boot device name written to grub.conf is
 disk3 (whatever the terminology for that is in grub-speak), but when I
 boot on the Sun hardware it is seen as disk0 and this just doesn't work.
 If it's that easy that'd be awesome, all I need is an alternate grub entry.


Or maybe not.  I guess this was findroot() in sol10 but in sol11 this seems
to have gone away.

Also, I was wrong about the disk target.  When I do the install I configure
the USB stick at disk0, seen by Solaris as c3t0, and no findroot() line
gets written to menu.lst.  Maybe it needs that line when it boots as a USB
still on real hardware?

I'll try import/export and a reconfigure boot when I get a chance.
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