[ZION] Symbolic Distractions

2002-11-04 Thread Gary Smith
Jim, We have the INS, FBI, CIA and the AARP checking into your cryptic message to determine whether you were sending a terrorist message to any Islamic or right wing fundamentalists on the list. We noted the word stab. Does that connote a violent action with a weapon? If one guess is as good as

[ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

2002-11-04 Thread Gary Smith
No, it is postulating a theory. Once a theory is set out for all to read, then it is up to the rest of us to disprove the theory by testing it against known evidences. That does not yet make it a fact, as future evidence can always refute a theory. Without theories, we would not advance in science

Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

2002-11-04 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 13:27 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: It seems to me that an honest scholar would just stick to writing things he can authenticate using the documentary record, or at least the archaeological record. In the absence of such records the author isn't just engaging in unfounded supposition, he is

Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

2002-11-04 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 15:29 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: Was Ammon defending a flock of turkeys when he cut all those guys arms off? Till thinks that he was defending the sheep FROM flocks of turkeys! / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please

Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

2002-11-04 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 15:53 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: The oldest secular writings, from ancient Sumer, also speak of a Great Flood. Yes, but they were obviously primitive unenlightened people, whose superstitions count for nothing in the light of scientific truth and so must be brushed away with all the other

Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

2002-11-04 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 22:01 11/1/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote (and wrote): So maybe to me I see a turdus migratoris [guess why I've always remembered *this* one!!] but my 4-year old granddaughter sees a robin and her little 2-year old friend sees a birdie. And is it the European robin or the New World robin? They're

Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

2002-11-04 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 23:13 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: Otherwise, it is just a long essay on how I look at things. Till prefers very short essays on how he looks at things. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// ///

Re: [ZION] Reconstructing the Clinton legacy

2002-11-04 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 18:04 11/2/2002 +, Gib Mij wrote: I'm always confused by this peculir application of the term women's rights. I'd kinda like to know exactly what constitutes the analogous men's rights. The right to work, pay taxes and die. Till the helpful

Re: [ZION] scriptures are not secular?

2002-11-04 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 15:23 11/3/2002 -0600, St Paul (not Minnesota) wrote: Also, maybe our whole religious experience is self induced with naturally occurring chemicals in our brains that make us wishy washy? Maybe the whole thing is a joke? Maybe we don't even really exist. Would someone pinch me please?

Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

2002-11-04 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 14:03 11/3/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: I'm just a black and white kind of guy. Yes, I noticed that about your hair, last time I saw you, John. 8)) Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// ///

Re:Re: [ZION] scriptures are not secular?

2002-11-04 Thread Val
-- Elmer L. Fairbank [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 15:23 11/3/2002 -0600, St Paul (not Minnesota) wrote: Also, maybe our whole religious experience is self induced with naturally occurring chemicals in our brains that make us wishy washy? Maybe the whole thing is a joke? Maybe we don't

Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

2002-11-04 Thread Marc A. Schindler
? I don't get it. Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 22:01 11/1/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote (and wrote): So maybe to me I see a turdus migratoris [guess why I've always remembered *this* one!!] but my 4-year old granddaughter sees a robin and her little 2-year old friend sees a birdie. And is it

Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

2002-11-04 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Then Diamond's book is not for you. Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 23:13 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: Otherwise, it is just a long essay on how I look at things. Till prefers very short essays on how he looks at things. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the

Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

2002-11-04 Thread Marc A. Schindler
A general book like Diamond's is not part of the scholarly record. It's intended for the general public. For those who want scholarly treatments, he provides a long list of recommended reading related to each chapter of the book. Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 13:27 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:

Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

2002-11-04 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 11:34 11/4/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote: ? I don't get it. Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 22:01 11/1/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote (and wrote): So maybe to me I see a turdus migratoris [guess why I've always remembered *this* one!!] but my 4-year old granddaughter sees a robin and her little

[ZION] OJ thoughtfully considers new info

2002-11-04 Thread Stephen Beecroft
http://www.msnbc.com/news/822149.asp?cp1=1 Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

RE: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel

2002-11-04 Thread Larry Jackson
Dan Allen: Thanks Larry, that's the one I was using. The Scientific is meant to imply that the person making the SWAG is basing it on some valid data that doesn't extend far enough to make the SWAG a serious prediction - it's a confidence level thing. ___ Ah yes, the confidence

Re: [ZION] The veil

2002-11-04 Thread Stacy Smith
How does one get an arranged marriage if one might wish one? I'm mad it seems it can't be done in this culture. Stacy. At 08:49 PM 11/04/2002 +, you wrote: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:21:53 -0900, John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I do not think it is possible to fall out of love with

[ZION] how do we know we are real?

2002-11-04 Thread Gary Smith
I believe it was Renee DesCartes who said, I think, therefore I have a headache. No, wait. I think, therefore I like green eggs and ham. No. I think, therefore I am. Yeah, that's it. We can ponder our own existence, real or not. However, since I experience things, why should I worry if I'm

[ZION] scriptures are not secular?

2002-11-04 Thread Gary Smith
Elder McConkie wrote that Eve really wasn't created from the rib of Adam, that it was symbolic of their equality. I guess that means it isn't a secular history, eh? There is history in the Bible and BoM. However, they weren't written to be secular histories. They were written primarily to be books

[ZION] Guns, Germs...

2002-11-04 Thread Gary Smith
I look at such ideas as a way to expand possibilities and learning in my own life. Joseph F Smith said it should all be considered scaffolding used to help build the actual building of true knowledge. Since we don't have exact information on how long the creation took for example, we really don't