Re: [ZION] War on Iraq
Dan R Allen wrote: Marc: Precisely. You challenged John to show why the Saudi government sent them. I pointed out that they didn't. I'm happy that you've come around to our way of thinking ;-) Dan: I knew that they didn't. John had implied that Saudi Arabia had a higher level of guilt for the attacks than did Iraq, because 15(17) of the terrorist were Saudi, with Saudi Passports. Just because they were Saudi citizens does not mean that the Saudi government supported their actions in any way. The Iraqi government, on the other hand, does have ties to terrorist groups, reportedly had intelligence connections to the specific group that carried out the attacks, does pay restitution to the families of suicide bombers, and is unwilling to prove that they are not actively pursuing WMD. But most of the money for terrorist activities comes from Saudi Arabia. Not from the government perhaps (although some does through Ikhwan and similar fraternal and charitable organizations, and through direct funding of the PLO's government bureaucracy) so I don't see your point. Saudi Arabia also pays money to survivors of martyrs. Also, you can't prove a negative. The world's largest producer of WMD is right where you live, Dan. Ever been to Tooele? Marc: I'm not sure what you mean about what [I'm] looking for, but very generally speaking I approve of the German approach. The Saudi government, incidentally, promised to pull US troops out of Dhahran, but they have yet to. This has made some fundamentalists furious. Saudi Arabia presents itself not just as a nation-state, but as Guardian of the Two Holy Cities (of Mecca and Medina), so it has special meaning to most Moslems. Dan: They probably are not ready for us to leave because of the benefits of having us there. The point is they broke a promise. Why they broke it is immaterial. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] John Pratt performance art
On Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:41:57 -0600 Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh, I forgot to add. If you're interested in what's happened in the 27 years since the Joseph Smith Papyri: an Egyptian Endowment was published, try http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/LBOA.pdf a piece of scholarship which is, imo, all the more remarkable because it was written in two weeks by an amateur* (the speed pressure was because FAIR wanted to have something to hand out to people who came to see the anti-Book of Abraham video). Kerry Shirts is working on an even more technical response but that won't be ready for a few weeks yet. *I am not using the word amateur in the pejorative sense, but in the sense of someone whose vocation is not in that field, but who has studied enough to be considered a scholar in the field. As we have no professional theologians (and don't want any, thank you very much -- they just end up competing with legitimate priesthood authority like a few BYU religion profs I could name) amateur scholars is what we're going to get. They're humble enough to submit to Church authority but committed enough to master their field and give the anti-Mormon professionals a run for their money. Thanks for the URL. You are welcome to check out my URL if you like. I have spent many years studying the controversies surrounding the mystery of the Joseph Smith papyri and provide simple, clean, and easy to understand answers. http://www.myegyptology.net/file/id3.htm Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Worldnet Daily, Newsmax
Dan R Allen wrote: Dan R Allen wrote: The problem with getting the real Taliban side of the story, or the Palestinian side for that matter, is the severe limitations those regimes place on what is released to the world new services. Marc: ???bin Laden regularly makes news release via video to a popular TV station in Qatar. Does the US have an Arabicist in Doha? Why not? Dan: And this disproves what I said how? Marc: The world press *does* have access to what the Taliban gives it, through a TV station in Doha, Qatar. It only takes one counterexample to disprove a universal claim such as you made. The problem is that the US doesn't have Arabicists in its embassies in the Gulf (except possibly Riyadh) so Qatari TV doesn't get translated and given to the US press. Dan: I was talking about the 'man on the street' perspective - not the party line. So was I. Al-Qazeer is a private network and is not owned nor controlled by any government. Stated another way, my point was that all we could really expect out of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and the PA in Israel is the propaganda that the leadership's _wants_ us to have. We must have someone in Qatar that understands Arabic, since we did see the OBL tapes, with transcripts, fairly quickly after they were broadcast, You saw them almost a week after they were broadcast, when someone at Fox was given a copy. Actually it looks like you do have a pretty good and well-staffed embassy in Qatar (http://www.usembassy.org.qa/) (better than our's but you're ten times our size: http://www.canadians-in-qatar.com/ward/ward_1.htm -- our embassy is actually in Kuwait City but the ambassador is accredited to Qatar) but again, my point was that getting news from _beyond_ the information minister just doesn't happen. I wonder why? Looks like the stuff on the US embassy website is pretty good and up-to-date. Maybe you should demand more of your network media. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] John Pratt performance art
Have you read any of his books? They're very stimulating. I'd recommend his book which is really a collection of his essays which were published in The Improvement Era, the predecessor to The Ensign. It's called Since Cumorah. Another one which contains similar essays is a three-part book, Lehi in the Desert / The World of the Jaredites / These were the Jaredites. [am going from memory on that title]. Some of his books, like Abraham in Egypt, are highly technical and you really have to like that kind of stuff to enjoy some of it (okay, that's a tautology, but you know what I mean). Paul Osborne wrote: Is there a Nibley cult following too? I honestly have wondered about that. Why is it that so many are wrapped up in the writings of a college professor? What in the world am I missing out on? scratching my head Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] John Pratt performance art
That's a nice looking site. do you mind if I link to it from mine? It'll be a while -- probably a couple of weeks before I update my site, but I'm always collecting links like this. I've got two websites: The LDS Atlas of the World at www.gatheringofisrael.com, but the one I'd include your link in is www.members.shaw.ca/mschindler which has 4 sections: 1. science and religion 2. scriptural studies 3. apologetics 4. miscellaneous. If you go to the apologetics site and go almost all the way to the bottom you'll see a list of links, and that's where I'd like to include your URL if that's alright with you. Paul Osborne wrote: On Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:41:57 -0600 Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh, I forgot to add. If you're interested in what's happened in the 27 years since the Joseph Smith Papyri: an Egyptian Endowment was published, try http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/LBOA.pdf a piece of scholarship which is, imo, all the more remarkable because it was written in two weeks by an amateur* (the speed pressure was because FAIR wanted to have something to hand out to people who came to see the anti-Book of Abraham video). Kerry Shirts is working on an even more technical response but that won't be ready for a few weeks yet. *I am not using the word amateur in the pejorative sense, but in the sense of someone whose vocation is not in that field, but who has studied enough to be considered a scholar in the field. As we have no professional theologians (and don't want any, thank you very much -- they just end up competing with legitimate priesthood authority like a few BYU religion profs I could name) amateur scholars is what we're going to get. They're humble enough to submit to Church authority but committed enough to master their field and give the anti-Mormon professionals a run for their money. Thanks for the URL. You are welcome to check out my URL if you like. I have spent many years studying the controversies surrounding the mystery of the Joseph Smith papyri and provide simple, clean, and easy to understand answers. http://www.myegyptology.net/file/id3.htm Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated
Why are we (I include myself in that) latter-day saints so reluctant to get our year's supply of food? Not JWR. I have seen his stash. He is loaded with grain! When I visited him in Alaska I told him he may need a gun to protect his stock but he said he has so much he is willing to feed his neighbors too! What a swell guy. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] rumor about the scriptures
Yes, everyone knows it should be Come all y'all to the ward bar-bee-que. BTW, It sounds like a great project. Please keep us informed on its progress. Oh, and if you do maps, will the one dating circa Jeremiah show the land of Jerusalem Also, will Ur be up North near Haran, or to the east? And will Nehem and Bountiful be marked in their locations on the Saudi Peninsula? K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Marc: It has a few appendices already. One I can think of offhand is a summary of Jacobean English (it grates when I hear someone say come thou all to the ward bar-b-que) GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] War on Iraq
-Marc- jihad has traditionally, in Sunni Islam, meant the kind of struggle that we all must undergo in order to purify ourselves in order to make ourselves fit to be in God's presence after death. The Taliban have given the term a bad name). -Stephen- Not so. That is, the term jihad has usually (not always) been interpreted by most of the Islamic schools as meaning an internal purification struggle, but throughout Islamic history, many Muslims of the Sunni, Shi'ite, and other fringe Islamic sects have used the term to refer to the struggle against infidels, mostly Christians and Jews. So the Taliban certainly have not given the term jihad any bad name that it hasn't already had for a dozen centuries. -Marc- Many is not most any more than many crusades have not been most crusades. I didn't say that most Muslims want to blast Americans, if that's what you're suggesting (though that might be the case). My point was simple and, I thought, fairly clear: The term jihad had a bad reputation since long before the Taliban even existed, so they (the Taliban) certainly haven't given the term [jihad] a bad name. In the non-Muslim west, the term has always had the unpleasant connotation of fanatical, murderous zealots. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
