[ZION] Symbolic Distractions
Jim, We have the INS, FBI, CIA and the AARP checking into your cryptic message to determine whether you were sending a terrorist message to any Islamic or right wing fundamentalists on the list. We noted the word stab. Does that connote a violent action with a weapon? If one guess is as good as another, then I suspect you should expect a visit from your local constabulary pronto. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 05:47:09 + From: Jim Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Symbolic distractions This message is symbolic, therefore it cannot be construed to contain any particular meaning. Take a stab in the dark, interpret it however you like. One guess is as good as another. --- Mij Ebaboc Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel
No, it is postulating a theory. Once a theory is set out for all to read, then it is up to the rest of us to disprove the theory by testing it against known evidences. That does not yet make it a fact, as future evidence can always refute a theory. Without theories, we would not advance in science or knowledge. The danger comes when we convince ourselves that a theory is a fact, when in fact, it isn't. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe JWR: It seems to me that an honest scholar would just stick to writing things he can authenticate using the documentary record, or at least the archaeological record. In the absence of such records the author isn't just engaging in unfounded supposition, he is engaged in irresponsible guessing and wild speculation. That is, he is just making up the story. Such a book is fiction, not nonfiction. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel
At 13:27 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: It seems to me that an honest scholar would just stick to writing things he can authenticate using the documentary record, or at least the archaeological record. In the absence of such records the author isn't just engaging in unfounded supposition, he is engaged in irresponsible guessing and wild speculation. That is, he is just making up the story. Such a book is fiction, not nonfiction. Ah, yes, but now it becomes part of the scholarly record, to be quoted ad nauseum, with the wild speculation becoming more and more a concrete truth with every scholarly citation. Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel
At 15:29 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: Was Ammon defending a flock of turkeys when he cut all those guys arms off? Till thinks that he was defending the sheep FROM flocks of turkeys! / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel
At 15:53 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: The oldest secular writings, from ancient Sumer, also speak of a Great Flood. Yes, but they were obviously primitive unenlightened people, whose superstitions count for nothing in the light of scientific truth and so must be brushed away with all the other human debris that came before. They weren't as advanced as we of the enlightenment, the glorious age of knowledge and reason; those whose conceit knows no bounds. Till the cynical / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel
At 22:01 11/1/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote (and wrote): So maybe to me I see a turdus migratoris [guess why I've always remembered *this* one!!] but my 4-year old granddaughter sees a robin and her little 2-year old friend sees a birdie. And is it the European robin or the New World robin? They're not the same. Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate? Till the helpful / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel
At 23:13 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: Otherwise, it is just a long essay on how I look at things. Till prefers very short essays on how he looks at things. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Reconstructing the Clinton legacy
At 18:04 11/2/2002 +, Gib Mij wrote: I'm always confused by this peculir application of the term women's rights. I'd kinda like to know exactly what constitutes the analogous men's rights. The right to work, pay taxes and die. Till the helpful / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] scriptures are not secular?
At 15:23 11/3/2002 -0600, St Paul (not Minnesota) wrote: Also, maybe our whole religious experience is self induced with naturally occurring chemicals in our brains that make us wishy washy? Maybe the whole thing is a joke? Maybe we don't even really exist. Would someone pinch me please? Maybe our whole universe is just an atom in God's big toe? Careful not to stub your toe, God** Till ** Loosely quoted from Odd Bodkins / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel
At 14:03 11/3/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: I'm just a black and white kind of guy. Yes, I noticed that about your hair, last time I saw you, John. 8)) Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re:Re: [ZION] scriptures are not secular?
-- Elmer L. Fairbank [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 15:23 11/3/2002 -0600, St Paul (not Minnesota) wrote: Also, maybe our whole religious experience is self induced with naturally occurring chemicals in our brains that make us wishy washy? Maybe the whole thing is a joke? Maybe we don't even really exist. Would someone pinch me please? Maybe our whole universe is just an atom in God's big toe? Careful not to stub your toe, God** Till Kinda like Horton--who hears a Who. We are just a speck?? on a Speck?? Sometimes that is how I feel looking up at the vast universe. It is almost incomprehensible that we will understand it all someday. val Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel
?
I don't get it.
Elmer L. Fairbank wrote:
At 22:01 11/1/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote (and wrote):
So maybe to me I see a turdus migratoris
[guess why I've always remembered *this* one!!] but my 4-year old
granddaughter
sees a robin and her little 2-year old friend sees a birdie. And is it the
European robin or the New World robin? They're not the same.
Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?
Till the helpful
--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland
The first duty of a university is to teach wisdom, not a trade; character, not
technicalities. We want a lot of engineers in the modern world, but we dont want a
world of engineers. Sir Winston Churchill (1950)
Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor
those of any organization with which the author may be associated.
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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel
Then Diamond's book is not for you.
Elmer L. Fairbank wrote:
At 23:13 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:
Otherwise, it is just a long essay on how I look at things.
Till prefers very short essays on how he looks at things.
--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland
The first duty of a university is to teach wisdom, not a trade; character, not
technicalities. We want a lot of engineers in the modern world, but we dont want
a world of engineers. Sir Winston Churchill (1950)
Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.
/
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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel
A general book like Diamond's is not part of the scholarly record. It's
intended for the general public. For those who want scholarly treatments, he
provides a long list of recommended reading related to each chapter of the book.
Elmer L. Fairbank wrote:
At 13:27 11/1/2002 -0900, BLT wrote:
It seems to me that an honest scholar would just stick to writing things
he can authenticate using the documentary record, or at least the
archaeological record. In the absence of such records the author isn't
just engaging in unfounded supposition, he is engaged in irresponsible
guessing and wild speculation. That is, he is just making up the
story. Such a book is fiction, not nonfiction.
Ah, yes, but now it becomes part of the scholarly record, to be quoted ad
nauseum, with the wild speculation becoming more and more a concrete truth
with every scholarly citation.
Till
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--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland
The first duty of a university is to teach wisdom, not a trade; character, not
technicalities. We want a lot of engineers in the modern world, but we dont want
a world of engineers. Sir Winston Churchill (1950)
Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.
/
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Re: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel
At 11:34 11/4/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote: ? I don't get it. Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 22:01 11/1/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote (and wrote): So maybe to me I see a turdus migratoris [guess why I've always remembered *this* one!!] but my 4-year old granddaughter sees a robin and her little 2-year old friend sees a birdie. And is it the European robin or the New World robin? They're not the same. Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate? Till the helpful Hint: Monty Python Till / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] OJ thoughtfully considers new info
http://www.msnbc.com/news/822149.asp?cp1=1 Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] Guns, Germs and Steel
Dan Allen: Thanks Larry, that's the one I was using. The Scientific is meant to imply that the person making the SWAG is basing it on some valid data that doesn't extend far enough to make the SWAG a serious prediction - it's a confidence level thing. ___ Ah yes, the confidence level thing. Reminds me of the time in the Wizard of Id when Sir Rodney the Knight was interviewing applicants for the position of stable hand. He says to one applicant, It says here that you were a rocket scientist. I find that hard to believe. To which the applicant replies, Do you want someone who can shovel it or not? Larry Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] The veil
How does one get an arranged marriage if one might wish one? I'm mad it seems it can't be done in this culture. Stacy. At 08:49 PM 11/04/2002 +, you wrote: On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:21:53 -0900, John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I do not think it is possible to fall out of love with your wife, at least not the kind of love I think of when I use the term. True love lasts forever or it isn't true love. Well, you could get into a big semantic discussion on exactly what is meant by the words, but yes, it can happen. It did to me. I remember the feeling when I realized it. I talked with my bishop and he basically told me to repent. I did so, and fell back into love with her. Unfortunately, I guess she must have fallen out of love with me, or at least gave up on our commitments as bout a year later she left me for some guy she met on the internet. This kind of falling out of love is not the same as drifting apart. We had done that already or it wouldn't have happened. I think that falling out of love (the real think like I experienced) is more akin to falling into transgression until you can't feel the spirit. It is still there, but you are incapable of feeling it because of your own actions. If the person who has fallen out of love corrects the inapropriate behavior that causes it, the love will (pardon the use of this expression, but it is appropriate here) shine through again and they will effectively fall back into love. This correction requires confirmation of commitments, ceasing to dwell on what you perceive as the other's faults (true faults or not) and generally making an effor to think of them in ways appropriate to someone who is your spouse. This is one reason that I think arranged marriages work as well as they often do. Both spouses go into the marriage knowing that they have to build a relationship. This is the important part. Modern couples think that the physical attractions _IS_ the relationship and thus often put no effort into it. Once the initial physical passion wears off, the relationship is over and they end up divorced in a few years or even months. It is too bad in my case that I didn't do this earlier and know more about what was happening. I might have saved my marriage. On the other hand, I would have lost out, too, as I would not now have Jo as my wife. The price I paid (and still pay) in getting to the point I was at when we got to know each other is horrible to think about, but she _does_ help make up for it. Scott -- Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott McGee) Web: http://scott.themcgees.org/ -- http://fastmail.fm - Email service worth paying for. Try it for free / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] how do we know we are real?
I believe it was Renee DesCartes who said, I think, therefore I have a headache. No, wait. I think, therefore I like green eggs and ham. No. I think, therefore I am. Yeah, that's it. We can ponder our own existence, real or not. However, since I experience things, why should I worry if I'm real? As long as I think it, then it is real to me. BTW, who wrote, I feel, therefore I am.? K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Paul: How do we know we are real? This whole thing could be the day dreaming of a God who is looking at the future. The scriptures prove in the revelation saying He lives but how do we know that we really live? Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] scriptures are not secular?
Elder McConkie wrote that Eve really wasn't created from the rib of Adam, that it was symbolic of their equality. I guess that means it isn't a secular history, eh? There is history in the Bible and BoM. However, they weren't written to be secular histories. They were written primarily to be books of holy writings, with history intermingled. A secular history concentrates on the historical side. Had the Bible and BoM been secular histories, we would have very little on the religious information except as it fit into the regular history. Instead, Nephi tells us that his book of secular history was contained on the large plates (history of kings, wars, etc), and the small plates (BoM) were to concentrate primarily on spiritual issues. Is Isaiah a secular history? No. Are there historical issues in it? Yes. But it concentrates on spiritual themes, not on secular history. Same with most of the writings in the Bible, with few exceptions (like Esther or Chronicles). Adam, Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus are all historical people. However, how to know if every story in the Bible is historical concerning them is another thing. Just looking at the many extra-Biblical writings there are telling stories on Abraham, Seth, Noah, Melchizedek, and others, show us that these ancient stories may or may not be true. Many ancient stories about Jesus' childhood are obviously faith-promoting, but false stories. Yet thousands of early Christians believed these stories. Does that make them historical? No. And in this same vein, we are not sure just which specific stories are totally accurate in the Bible. We already know that the Songs of Solomon is uninspired, according to Joseph Smith. But how do we know other issues? King David was historical, however archaeology suggests that his kingdom wasn't as great as it is described in the Bible. Did David's scribes enhance his victories to establish him as a great regional king? Archaeology also shows that Jericho didn't have the walls tumbling down when Joshua fought it. Joshua is historical, but the Bible isn't a secular history. It was written for two things: to make Jehovah as great (or greater) than the other regional gods, and to show the Israelites conquering everyone. But today's evidence shows there was little conquest, and mostly just integration with other Semites/Canaanites in the area. In fact, the Bible also suggests this as we see many nations dwelt in their midst. Dan seems to disappear from the Bible, probably being absorbed among the Sea Peoples (according to Trude Dothan, Philistine and Sea People expert). So, Marc is right. There is history, and these are historical people. But since the Bible wasn't written as a secular history, we don't know how much is actual history and how much is propaganda to make Israel look bigger and more important than it originally was among the other nations. The BoM also isn't a secular history, as I said above. There are hundreds of years covered in just a few pages (Omni, Jarom), which isn't usually done in a secular history. A secular history also wouldn't cover so much preaching. Also, it would concentrate on the kings' activities, rather than the chief priests. It is a spiritual history with historical events included. BTW, had it been a secular history, it would probably be easier to find where the Nephites and Lamanites really were on the American continent, because it would have described their cities, rivers, and events better. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Paul: If this was so, the apostles and prophets from Joseph Smith on would have told us so. everything I have ever heard from modern prophets teaches that the old history of the world is true and historical unless you choose to believe that our religion is based upon lies, fairy tales, and faith promoting nonsense. I suppose you might also think Moses was a myth because there is not one scrap of credible evidence of Moses or the Israelites in Egypt and I hope you don't choose to argue this point with me because you will loose big time. So beware! Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
[ZION] Guns, Germs...
I look at such ideas as a way to expand possibilities and learning in my own life. Joseph F Smith said it should all be considered scaffolding used to help build the actual building of true knowledge. Since we don't have exact information on how long the creation took for example, we really don't know what the exact process is that God used. So, we can often get the same uncertainty in the scriptures as we find in science. I don't turn away from science. I use it as scaffolding to help me learn to understand the things in this world. I understand that it is based upon theory, so it doesn't phase me when it blatantly contradicts the scriptures. I know there will be unanswered questions. Rather than run away from it, I do as JFS suggested, and use it all as possible scaffolding. God doesn't condemn us for keeping an open mind on non-doctrinal things. Now, we could argue on what denotes doctrine, however as individuals we each must make that determination for ourselves. I think there are too many members who run away from learning, because it would force them to consider new ideas that may help them accept the gospel on a higher level. I don't consider you one of those people, John, otherwise you wouldn't be on these lists discussing such things. An example: are the proper names for Jesus and God really Jehovah and Elohim? They have been standardized as such in the church for about 80 years (since 1919). However, in Joseph Smith's day, the name Jehovah was a title that was used interchangeably for Father and Son (see how Joseph used Jehovah in the Kirtland dedicatory prayer, DC 109). Most members never learn that God truly is nameless, as no name can contain all He is. The most we can do is use name-titles to describe him. I love science, as someday I will have to use it (along with math, language, art, etc) to form my own worlds. Developing and testing theories helps me to develop my critical thinking skills. These I believe are necessary to recognize truth from error, but also to help me in problem solving (which God obviously does much of). So, even though science may be far fromthe truth in some areas, accepting some ideas as theoretical scaffolding allows me to use those theories until a greater truth is found. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe JWR: Part of the reason I turned away from science to religion is because I despaired of learning anything with any certainty when the foremost authorities in almost every field disagree with fellow scientists about really basic things. I have a real need for at least some questions to have conclusive answers. Otherwise, life is just a constantly changing dream bound by no laws and consequently all over the map. I know very little for sure, but what little I do know I have learned from the scriptures, the modern prophets, and the testimony of the Holy Ghost. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
