Muhammad Karim, ex-Muslim and Christian. He only disapproves of the way
that modern Israel as a nation came into existence.
He doesn't count.
Paul O
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Only
That is not what it says. It says, Eat meat sparingly and they should
not be used only in times of winter or hunger. To me that clearly
means
that we should not limit our use of these things to winter or hunger.
But
that we are to eat meat sparingly at all times.
I don't eat meat with
What I read into Elder Jensen's article is if the Democratic party isn't
what we want it to be, then perhaps if enough of us were to switch over
to it, we could change it for the better. We'd kick the socialists out
of
it and into the Green Party (or other socialist party of one's choice),
and
Thinking back, I don't recall the last time I was even at a grocery
store or
any other kind of store on a Sunday.
I've snuck out a few times over the years and it makes me feel guilty.
But, when I've gone shopping after midnight (Monday morning) my
conscience is as clear as can be. What do you
I've been thinking of becoming a Democrat. I can't see a nickle's worth
of
difference between Democrats and Republicans except in their
rhetoric. They both vote the same wrong way on the issues that matter
to
me. And since I never vote for the candidate of either party, why not
be a
Irwin wrote,
A strong federal government is a must in order to
protect the rights of the minority.
I agree, just so long as they don't step on my right while in the process
of protecting others. ;-)
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Marc wrote:
Many people assume it
means no caffeine, but if that were the case a good portion of OTC drugs
that we
take would be verboten. Is decaff okay? No. Clearly we're not to drink
coffee or
(green/black) tea. That's what it means, not no caffeine. We tend to
get bogged
down in unimportant
Who cares? At the time, Red China didn't have any power. They couldn't
have fought us without losing gazillions of people. They were fighting
with clubs and pitchforks
Actually, the Chinese are not much of a world force even today in my
opinion. Not to offend anyone but their technology is
Jim wrote
Hypocrisy is a troubling concept for me. I often reflect on the rights
and wrongs of my life, and find that I have generally fallen far short
of the ideals and correct principles I claim to embrace. In short, I am
a hypocrite.
I read your letter and appreciate your sentiments. I
In my opinion the more parties the better.
Stacy.
I agree. . .party on, dude!!
Yeahh! Let's all have a party!!
:-)))
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Their military equipment is also built to a much different quality
requirement than their commercial stuff - just like ours. They do have
the
technical know-how to build electronic equipment correctly - they just
don't waste it on commercial stuff.
I can't argue with this because I don't know. I
If I was a Jew, the Sabbath would be from sundown to sundown. But I'm
not
a Jew, at least not culturally or religiously. So as soon as the clock
strikes midnight, the Sabbath is over. I feel the same way you do,
Paul.
Hip hip hurray! Someone agrees with me on this one! I honestly feel that
At *very* occasional times, on long distance trips, I've taken caffeine
pills to keep me up.
Me too. It's better than winding up on the side of the road.
Personally I think if I didn't live the WoW I'd try a glass of white
wine every
now and then.
Me too. But the benefits of living the WoW
The United
Order was voluntary, socialism isn't. That is a pretty big difference
in
my book.
Of course your right, John. Why didn't I think of that?
Paul O
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I thank you from the most heartfelt depths of my heart for the
hospitality
you have offered me. I can tell that this trip, which might have been a
big chore, is going to turn out to be one of the highlights of my
personal
history. I am really pumped.
I'm so excited for John! You'll have fun
If it isn't, then it is a traitor and betrayer. Which just
about sums up what I feel about Truman. He betrayed our armed forced,
and
deserves to be remembered as one of the blackest villains of our
national
history.
I wonder if his temple ordinances have been performed yet? Hmmm.
;-)
Gary said:
women reproductive issues - I can't use the real term because it is
against charter,
Yeah but we knew what you meant.
;-)
Paul O
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The doctor told him he could either pay a dollar per caffeine
pill or drink a cup of coffee every day. So at breakfast, he would say
it
was time to take his medicine, then drink a cup of coffee. Since it was
prescribed, it wasn't breaking the WoW.
Cool story. I agree. What's the name of the
JWR confessed:
I've got to stop this. It's killing me.
It would be a good idea to take a political break. It kills me too. I
just can't handle too much of it.
Paul O
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There are lots of silly apostateisms that creep into our religion. One
is
you can't drink any caffeinated beverages. Another is that you have to
pass
the Sacrament tray with your right hand. Some claim that you can't do
anything that might be considered physical exercise on Sunday (like
taking
Show your Savior how much you love Him!
I was thinking today of how awful it must have been for Jesus to have
sweat blood from his brows. His face sweat as it were great drops of
blood falling to the ground and his anxiety levels were off the scale.
The burden was so heavy upon him that he
President Hinckley, twice, say on national television that we do not
drink soda with caffeine,
I heard it too, but he is not speaking for me or my house. I have no
problem with cokes. Everyone must make their own choice and go with it.
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
It is possible to live in the world and not partake of the sins of the
world.
Ezra Taft Benson--Apr 1991
First Presidency Message Keys to Successful Member-Missionary Work
No. It is not possible for any of us. We are all sinners.
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, he'll be at our place Thursday evening for dinner. I think all we
have in
the house is orange juice, cocoa and ginger ale. I'll have to go to
SuperStore and
get some real Jamaican ginger beer for them -- that stuff's almost
flammable
(totally alcohol free -- flammable in the spicy sense).
do we rely on medicine instead of
priesthood blessings and our Heavenly Father too much?
The Lord gave mankind the power to invent and find ways to help us with
our problems outside the bounds of prayers and blessings. Millions of
people who don't believe in prayer and blessings are reaping the
On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:55:36 -0600 Sandy and Melinda Rabinowitz
I want to agree with you totally, but I can relate to what Stacy is
speaking of. For while I try not to think about sin, every so
often
I trip upon it--sometimes in much the same way that someone might
step on a land mine.
Gary wisely wrote:
Why do so many members not drink caffeine drinks?
Because the Spirit has guided them to that decision. It becomes
personally binding on them, but not on others who are not prepared.
I agree.
slurp
;-)
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Marx brothers, I think, before veering to the west.
Ha ha ha ah .Good one!
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Jim,
I just read your post to my wife and she told me to tell you that you are
her hero and she has a crush on you now! She studies mental illness very
seriously.
What an excellent post!
Paul O
On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:58:46 + Jim Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
My regular diatribe on
It was brought up in a larger discussion about the number of people in
the
ward suffering from depression, and the church's change to being more
supportive of people using drugs to overcome it.
Yep. I'm a big goof and shoot my mouth off all the time and tell people
about my problems to members
My first observation still stands. :Even though we feel we need some of
these chemicals, does it limit personal revelation? I wasn't trying to
ridicule, only trying to figure out whether or not these things would
limit
our ability to get personal revelation.
Personal revelation without
I have endeavored to eat raw vegetables but find they really don't agree
with me. What am I supposed to do if my family absolutely insists I eat
them? It is questions of this nature that trouble me.
Get a vegetable steamer and lightly steam them. Steamed vegetables are
totally yummy! Use a
Apparently, I have been telling my body to convert whatever muscle mass
is
left into fat and to migrate it to the vicinity of my belt. I must be
doing
this while I am asleep, or perhaps while I stuff much needed
carbohydrates
into my mouth.
That's what happened to me because I'm having an
Marc
Well, get your butt up here to God's country, and we'll see what we can
arrange!
I will someday, hopefully. Do you serve Coca Cola up there?
Paul O
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If you want, although we're not big pop drinkers (just the occasional
ginger ale,
or boutique drinks like ginger beer or sarsparilla or that sort of
thing).
Mountain Dew is caffeine-free here, incidentally (because it's
considered a
psychoactive/medical ingredient, so our laws say the fact that
On Mon, 25 Nov 2002 08:12:26 -0800 (PST) [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
My understanding is that there is no policy. I had always thought
that God would forgive that individual for past transactions
providing he/she goes through the process of rependence. Isn't that
what the Gospel is all
Jim
It is a complicated world we live in.
Indeed it is. It wasn't too long ago that a young person could commit
murder here in Dallas and walk the streets on parole in a few years.
Really. If a person is caught with LSD (acid) doing it on their own
time-- they spent more time in jail then those
Thanks, Gary.
I'm trying to work through a lot of negative energy that seems to
surround me these days. Ever since 9-11 I have really taken a beating as
the events of that disaster have effected me very much and have seriously
hurt my Psyche. I have not been back to the temple since that terrible
Actually, all I was trying to ask in a general way was: Should
Fundamentalist Baptists be telling anyone how to run their lives?
Again, absolutely not! The Baptists need to forsake their apostate
religion, quit telling people what to do, and come to Mormonism. It is
the only way.
I was
Scott
Anyway, for any of you considering a trip to Hawaii, I highly recommend
it. I can give you some ideas for Maui if you are headed that way too.
(Just let me know, I'll be glad to go on and on about it if you want!)
Totally cool and you're a lucky guy! I'm sure if I got to do all that fun
Paul -
Don't you think that it is about time to return to the House of the
Lord? I
do believe that your outlook on life and the blessings you receive will
improve/increase.
I agree. I'll get back to it sooner or later. Probably a little later
than sooner. In the mean time...
Paul O
[EMAIL
I've got a great idea! The Democrats are scrounging around for an issue
that they could win with. How about suggesting that you would vote for
Gore
if he promised an entitlement for everyone to get a free trip to Hawaii
is
your income is less the $200K, to be paid for by all those who make more
For those who haven't met John Redelfs but have been on the list for
some years, you would recognize him if you met him. He is very much the
person in the flesh as I have come to understand him via email.
Yeah, I agree.
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
If I tried to make this public what could happen to me? Is this
considered
gossip? and heresay?
I don't know about your situation but if I was close to someone whom I
was pretty sure had committed a serious sin and was not repenting I would
probably let the bishop know about it and leave it in
Fair? Who ever said life would be fair? Whoever they were, they lied!
Life is never fair. You want to trade? You get a week in Hawaii, an
upcoming layoff that may effect you, most of your children living
hundreds of miles away and their mother teaching them by example that
all
that you taught them
Larry talking about XXX
The Church will, however, see that he is never given a
calling or position of responsibility involving the youth or
the children in the ward.
And for good reason. First, it protects children from possible harm.
Second it relieves further burden of the former perpetrator
On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 20:08:46 -0600 Gary Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I find that the thing that brings me the greatest peace during this
time
of troubles and uncertainty is being in the temple. I can leave all
the
terrorists, unemployment, recession, Democrats, and all the other
Did I read this correctly? Did you say that denying yourself the
blessings
of the temple IS the way to face problems?
Inquiring minds
You guys are putting me on a guilt trip. :-(
eeesh
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sign
LOL!! Ha ha ha ha haha ahhaa h
On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 21:20:25 -0600 Gary Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
A sage plumber I once visited at his throne on a high pile, er,
mountain
of, er, uh, well anyway he told me that there are two secrets
to
plumbing:
The good water comes up, and
A sage plumber I once visited at his throne on a high pile, er, mountain
of, er, uh, well anyway he told me that there are two secrets to
plumbing:
The good water comes up, and the dirty water goes down the hole.
Most people only mix these cardinal rules up once at most. (unless you
are
I'm planning to have for lunch a turkey and cheese sandwich with milk
and a banana for desert whenever I have the need to be sharp in the
evening.
We went out to eat on Thanksgiving. No extra turkey here.
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I agree with JWR in so much as a true Christian must be a baptized member
of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and have a testimony
given by the Holy Ghost.
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Jon
Don't you follow the prophet's counsel? He said that every member
should
always have a valid temple recommend, whether or not they can get to the
temple. Tsk, tsk! :-)
No, I don't always follow the prophet's counsel and neither do I always
do what the Lord expects of me. I have my ups and
If the Book of Mormon is not historical, then the Church is false, and
Joseph Smith was no prophet. Knowing this, Satan and his mortal
followers
make their most sophisticated attacks upon mankind by attacking the
historicity of the Book of Mormon.
Further more, according to my testimony IF
Tom
Fundamentally the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is a
kingdom.
Tom, you slipped. Please remember to make the D small. Otherwise--great
post!
And Gary, if you don't fix the big D on your website I'm going to
scream and then tell your bishop!
:-o
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
There can be no real and true Christianity, even with good works, unless
we are deeply and personally committed to the reality of Jesus Christ as
the Only Begotten Son of the Father, who bought us, who purchased us in
the great act of atonement.
Spencer W. Kimball, The SaviorThe Center of Our
I look at it this way:
There are two kinds of Christians; those who have the fullness and those
who don't.
Celestial Christians = Latter-day Saints
Terrestrial Christians = Baptists, Catholics, and the rest
In this way we can believe our General Authorities when they refer to
other churches as
As per above thread line:
Yeah, I am.
I damaged both of my wrists removing several nuts off of 7/8 bolts and
it is very hard and painful for me to type and to hold a mouse.
I'm learning that my body can't do what it use to do.
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 14:28:51 + Chet [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Ouch, Paul!
Here's hoping and praying for no permanent damage (at our ages,
those
joints just don't snap back) and a swift recovery. In this day of
electronic information, our typing skills are paramount.
I went to
On Mon, 09 Dec 2002 11:29:52 -0400 Scott McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Yes, really! Back on Nov. 11 I fell going down my front steps,
bouncing
my tail bone off the bottom step and the cement, and am still having
pain
from it! It is so bad I can't even ride the motorcycle I got the
week
On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:42:17 -0600 Gary Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Actually, there are many Levites that have established their
genealogies
without a patriarchal blessing. Jews today are still rather diligent
in
ensuring their descendancy.
Do you mean Jews who are Levites in the
What does the following title mean?
CLU, ChFC
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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God does what his Father did before him...
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Redelfs' Commentary: God became God by obedience to pre-existing,
coeternal law. And if we are to become Gods we must follow the same
path
that he took. The idea that God made up the laws by which he became God
is
a Protestant idea. It is not the gospel.
Amen!
I can see that John has it
Amen!
John, you and I see this thing eye to eye and agree. Isn't it great? ;-)
Paul O
On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:27:04 -0900 John W. Redelfs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
God cannot sin. If he did, he would cease to be God. He cannot
create
something out of nothing. He cannot annihilate something in
There was no beginning and there will be no end, there was no first
Father and there will never be a last Father
Notive how I left out the period at the end of the above sentence?
grin
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I tend to go with the odds and believe
that He was not likely a Savior like Jesus
A safe bet. You win.
Paul O
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I'm glad to hear that George. Keep it up. :-)
Paul O
On Thu, 19 Dec 2002 16:26:42 -0700 George Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
geez Paul - and I was beginning to have such confidence in your
doctrinal
judgment.
George
- Original Message -
From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED
Interesting -- I think you might have me there, at least partially, as I
was
unaware of the GBH quote. I suppose I should have defined the term more
tightly
and say that we don't *pray* to Jesus Christ.
Right. I can go along with this, Marc. However, you might recall that I
said earlier that
First Presidency Message
A Testimony of the Son of God
Ensign, December 2002
By President Gordon B. Hinckley
We honor Him, we worship Him, we love Him as our Redeemer, the great
Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New Testament. The
entire thrust of the testimony of the Book of
. Because God the Father is in fact the only authorized
object
of our worship.
We can love, respect,hold in high esteem and appreciation the Son,
our
redeemer, but we worship only the Father.
George
- Original Message -
From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED
I confess your quotes regarding worshiping Christ are troubling with
regard
to his verse. How do you reconcile the two?
I've got to go to bed now. I'm absolutely exhausted and sick too, again.
I'll just say that the difference between the three members of the
Godhead boils down to one fact, and
Stephen E. Robinson, Are Mormons Christians? New Era, May 1998, 41
Both the Book of Mormon as scripture and Joseph Smith as a prophet bear
witness to Jesus Christ as Savior. The Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl
of Great Price bear that same great witness, as do all of the modern
prophets and
Bernard P. Brockbank, The Living Christ, Ensign, May 1977, 26
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints worships a God and a
Jesus Christ with bodies, with parts, and with passions.
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sign Up for
John,
What is the final day or hour when posts can be posted on the Zion list?
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Also, if I recall correctly, didn't the Nephites worship
Christ only to a point, after which he told them to worship the Father?
The Nephites worshipped Christ because he was the ETERNAL GOD and they
loved him with all their hearts. It is true that the mortal Jesus taught
the Jews how to pray to
Marc
I certainly wouldn't object to that.
You my friend, are indeed a Christian. :-)
Paul O
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Then, my friend, what is meant by the term eternal progression? Are we
being lied to?
Jon
No, we are not being lied to. You just don't understand what eternal
progression is, Jon. It is a state of never ending progress as worlds
come and go. The size of heavenly Father's kingdom grows with
Last Sunday I knew we would have great talks in sacrament because Elder
Gibbons and his wife were speaking. He is an Area Authority that lives in
my ward and I have known him for over 15 years and my wife much longer.
What was strange was he got up and said that he was going to participate
in a
Gee-wizz, John. I thought we weren't suppose to talk about Iraq? Remember
the last flame war we had? Well, since we are about to go at it again I
will only make one little itty bitty comment which is that I hope we bomb
the hell out Iraq and roll our tanks right into the palaces of that
madman in
The MS number is less likely to give a direct link to the owner.
however,
if it is not a big name brand computer, then MS could probably tell
you who
the manufacturer is, if you can find anyone at MS to speak to.
Jon
- Original Message -
From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED
Some on the list have mentioned in the past that God does not
love
sinners, and tried to use recent statements on unconditional
love to
prove their point.
I'd like to quote Elder Neal Maxwell, perhaps the current
scriptural
scholar among the apostles, and definitely the
Right on Gary. That was a bull'seye.
Paul O
On Sat, 31 May 2003 19:45:24 -0500 Gerald Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I believe they are discussing different ideas, but arriving at the
same
conclusions overall. Elder Nelson is trying to refute the idea of
God
unconditionally accepting
On Mon, 2 Jun 2003 18:59:49 -0400 Jon Spencer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Paul Osborne wrote:
Anyway, God loves me, and that's final.
And I love you too, Paul. That makes two!
Noj
Thanks. It's always nice to hear that and especially my Zion friends. :-)
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED
Zion might know.
I found a lap top computer. It has no name or identification. Is there a
way to track down the owner with the product code number? If so, how do
I so it?
Paul O
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
of sunshine too.
Oh, it's Church tomorrow. Hmmm, I better not skip again, at least for a
while. :-)
thinking out loud
Paul O
On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 16:24:05 -0400 Scott McGee
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Paul,
The least you could do is tell us _HOW_ you found the owner!
Scott
Paul Osborne wrote
On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 05:06:21 -0700 Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
What's the weather like over there? In the 90's? Hope so.
Actually we have had a real mild spring and are starting out mild this
summer. Mostly upper 80's and low 90's. I think we only have been in the
high 90's a few
John, I don't know the answers to these questions. All I can say is we
need to accept the ever changing world of Mormonism. Things will change
in both the Church and Mormon culture and we are not given explanations
as to why. We just follow.
Paul O
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 17:37:01 + John W.
Grampa,
What an excellent response! A very safe one too.
:-)
Paul O
On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 10:50:24 -0700 Grampa Bill in Savannah
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Paul Osborne wrote:
Do you think that Joseph Smith and his assistants were wasting
their time when they created the Egyptian
is the opinion of the group? I'd find your comments
interesting as
well as educational.
As I said, I have some rather strong feelings on this, but I thought
that I'd ask this august group.
Thx Cheers
Tom
Hmmm. First of all, ain't no one gonna rule over me (Paul Osborne the
Great
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:51:03 -0400 Maj Tom Merrill
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The First Presidency and the Twelve probably shake hundreds of hands
each week and, even at their advanced ages, no ill effects. I think
we're probably safe.
Tom
Well, I'm not a prophet and I ain't ever
On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:29:45 -0500 Ronn! Blankenship
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Paul, maybe you should consider carrying around one of those big
squirt
bottle of that anti-bacterial hand gel and use it every time
immediately
after you shake someone's hand . . . and hope you never get called
as
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:05:08 + Jim Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
My hand shakes a lot too.
Whadda ya think we oughta do about it?
Stop spreading your nasty germs, Jimmyboy. ;-))
Did you know that I actually packed two cans of lysol spray on my mission
to London England!? No
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 05:45:39 -0500 Ronn! Blankenship
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
At 04:45 AM 6/21/03 -0500, Paul Osborne wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 04:05:08 + Jim Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
My hand shakes a lot too.
Whadda ya think we oughta do about it?
Stop
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 10:06:02 -0600 Steven Montgomery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You ought to be even more grateful then that the mid-eastern
tradition of
greeting is not followed then.
Why? What do they do?
Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 11:12:56 -0600 Steven Montgomery
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The Holy (Or, I suppose unholy, depending on who is performing the
action)
Kiss: Luke 22: 47-48, and then Romans 16:16, 1 Cor. 16: 20, 2 Cor.
13: 12,
1 Thess. 5: 26, and finally 1 Peter 5: 14.
This is a
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 17:21:49 -0500 Ronn! Blankenship
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Kiss: Luke 22: 47-48, and then Romans 16:16, 1 Cor. 16: 20, 2
Cor.
13: 12,
1 Thess. 5: 26, and finally 1 Peter 5: 14.
This is a charter violation. ;-)
Quoting scripture?
That's right, wise guy.
The
On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 19:35:22 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Paul, you can get bottles of the anti-bacterial stuff that is the
right
size for your pocket or your wife's handbag, and they have a flip
top.
Either that, or you can carry around those individually-wrapped
anti-bacterial moist
Me too, Heidi.
Paul O
On Sun, 22 Jun 2003 14:47:32 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I am a big believer in hand washing. That might have something to do
with
the fact that my mother is a nurse. Anyhoo...I've spent a lot of
time
around children that aren't my own, and I rarely get sick.
On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 04:11:31 -0700 Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
What are we supposed to do about temple workers' hands? Are we to
ask if
they have washed them?
Stacy.
It's just down right dirty, nasty, and germy. There just doesn't seem to
be a way out of it. H. Oh well;
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