[ZION] Worth reiterating...

2004-03-23 Thread Jim Cobabe
I believe President Hinkley's remarks on this issue succinctly and precisely outline the present direction of church policy on the marriage controversy. The church is actively pursuing every means to defend traditional marriage, including representation in the courts and support for

[ZION] Testing legality

2004-03-23 Thread Jim Cobabe
In my view, the restoration has a poor record of success when it comes to testing the laws of the land in court. For more than 150 years it has been a dismal and discouraging effort for the saints of God to importune the courts for redress. In legal matters regarding everything from trivial

RE: [ZION] another approach

2004-03-23 Thread Jim Cobabe
Bob, I do see your point about constitutionality. It is an interesting idea. If I understand correctly, you are imagining what would result if we begin from an axiomatic assumption that church doctrines reflect the true constitutional ideal, and we might use this standard for judging

RE: [ZION] Vote Now!

2004-03-22 Thread Jim Cobabe
Ron Scott wrote: -- Thus sayeth the self-appointed Judge in Israel. --- Actually, in the church our judges are appointed by inspiration from God. They are not self-appointed nor is their administration a form of political spoils for the party in power. Just in case you did not realize this.

[ZION] General Conference

2004-03-22 Thread Jim Cobabe
Session of the general conferences of the church have become one of the greatest recurring events in my life. I look forward with great anticipation to hearing addresses from the brethren and sisters the Lord has called to lead us. In the best of times, thier counsel is uplifting and adds

[ZION] Judging

2004-03-22 Thread Jim Cobabe
This controversy about judgement is a straw man that is raised regularly. It usually comes up because someone has suggested a context in which we clearly ought to pass some kind of judgement. The always-ironic response from so many is so consistently and so stupidly predictable -- Oh, but

RE: [ZION] Vote Now!

2004-03-22 Thread Jim Cobabe
Ron Scott wrote: --- Sophistry? I beg your pardon. Has the Church indicated that people who believe the courts should decide the matter, as mandated by the divinely-inspired constitution, are out of step with the church and its teachings? Please point me to the statement. --- Others with better

[ZION] A few more representative quotes...

2004-03-22 Thread Jim Cobabe
The ultimate purpose of the adversary, who has “great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time,” is to disrupt, disturb, and destroy the home and the family. Like a ship without a rudder, without a compass, we drift from the family values which have anchored us in the past.

[ZION] Gas pains

2004-03-15 Thread Jim Cobabe
Gas prices have now reached record high levels in the US. Over $2 per gallon in some areas. Isn't it a good thing we mounted such an effective imperialistic war against the Iraqis, just so we could steal away their oil? I can imagine what the prices would be otherwise.

[ZION] Marriage resolution dropped

2004-03-10 Thread Jim Cobabe
Deseret Morning News, Wednesday, March 10, 2004 Marriage resolution dropped S. Jordan Council decides to skip all of its controversy By Geoffrey Fattah Deseret Morning News SOUTH JORDAN — After being blasted by some members of the public for proposing a resolution against gay marriage, South

[ZION] Gay art exhibit

2004-03-10 Thread Jim Cobabe
Deseret Morning News, Wednesday, March 10, 2004 Gay art exhibit raises ire at SLCC Diversity Week show is moved away from entrance foyer By Doug Smeath Deseret Morning News A visual art exhibit at Salt Lake Community College was moved Tuesday after a group of photographs offended several

[ZION] Starship troopers

2004-03-10 Thread Jim Cobabe
They've landed at Berkeley, CA. http://www.me.berkeley.edu/hel/bleex.htm // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

RE: [ZION] Gay marriage is wrong

2004-03-10 Thread Jim Cobabe
Redefining things is exactly what this problem does not need. We have arrived at the present situation because a very few vocal malcontents decided that definitions that successfuly accomodated the cultural interests of the civil majority for the past ten centuries now suddenly don't cater

[ZION] Taxes

2004-03-10 Thread Jim Cobabe
One of John Kerry's principal campaign issues is taxes. He promises to rescind the recent tax cuts implemented by the Bush administration. In the news coverage, it absolutely amazes me to notice the crowds cheering with enthusiasm when they hear a promise to raise their taxes. It has always

[ZION] Paternalistic science

2004-03-10 Thread Jim Cobabe
Recent reporting in JAMA turns science into a politically correct blunt instrument. Echoed in the news reports, it reads something like Obesity is an epidemic, we're eating ourselves to death. Reportedly, being too fat is now the number two cause of death in the US, trailing only tobacco.

[ZION] Retroactive laws

2004-03-09 Thread Jim Cobabe
John W. Redelfs wrote: --- I don't see how a law passed in the 21st century could have any effect on your 19th century ancestors. Laws aren't retroactive. --- It seldom makes any sense that they would be, but as I understand it, legal instruments are sometimes made to be retroactive, nunc pro

RE: [ZION] An Answer to the World - Divorce and Single Parent Children

2004-03-09 Thread Jim Cobabe
Some good resource material here: http://new.heritage.org/Research/Family/BG1115.cfm // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

RE: [ZION] An Answer to the World - Divorce and Single Parent Children

2004-03-09 Thread Jim Cobabe
Maggie Gallagher and Judith Wallerstien discuss social problems stemming from contemporary divorce practices. Many insightful comments. http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9708/gallagher.html // /// ZION LIST

RE: [ZION] An Answer to the World - Divorce and Single Parent Children

2004-03-09 Thread Jim Cobabe
Maggie Gallagher: By gutting the marital contract, no-fault divorce has transformed what it means to get married. The state will no longer enforce permanent legal commitments to a spouse. Formally, at least, no-fault divorce thus demotes marriage from a binding relation into something best

[ZION] The Gospel according to PETA

2004-03-08 Thread Jim Cobabe
http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?sid=79693nid=5 http://www.goveg.com/feat/a-latterday.html A new billboard depicting a PETA God, brandishing carrots, looms over the west side of Salt Lake City, commanding all faithful saints to become vegetarians.

[ZION] SLTrib

2004-03-07 Thread Jim Cobabe
SUNDAY March 07, 2004 Gay marriage threatens the fundamental unit of society -- the family By Paul T. Mero Utah should support a federal constitutional amendment to recognize legal marriage as only between a man and a woman. But it should do so for the right reasons, understanding why

RE: [ZION] An Answer to the World - Chapter 3

2004-03-07 Thread Jim Cobabe
Jonathan, I'm not sure I follow your first attempt at deconstruction. I am interested in the linkage you're making between the war and the counterculture. Although there seem to be some significant connections, I'm pretty certain that the slide toward this studied irresponsibility

RE: [ZION] Am I wasting my time?

2004-03-07 Thread Jim Cobabe
Jonathan, I have not seen your comments about feminism yet. I suggest that this is something you might like to examine. I did not see mention of divorce as a social issue at all. In my thinking this is one of the primary indicators of the attack on families. Before 1960, divorce was

RE: [ZION] Martha Stewart Guilty

2004-03-06 Thread Jim Cobabe
Who is Martha Stewart? Is she rich and famous? I thought she peddled linens for Sears, or something like that. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

[ZION] US Senate considers amendment

2004-03-04 Thread Jim Cobabe
Deseret Morning News, Thursday, March 04, 2004 Senate panel takes up marriage amendment By Lee Davidson Deseret Morning News WASHINGTON — The Senate Judiciary Committee began emotional hearings Wednesday on a proposed constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage — seen either as a last

[ZION] Judicial insanity spreads

2004-03-03 Thread Jim Cobabe
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/02/national/02CHAR.html?ex=1078808400en=391ad639af296166ei=5062partner=GOOGLE Catholic Group Is Told to Pay for Birth Control By STEPHANIE STROM Published: March 2, 2004 The California Supreme Court ruled Monday that Catholic Charities must provide its

RE: [ZION] The Return of the King

2003-11-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
The LOTR movie was too dark for my taste. Also the hobbits didn't look at all like they should have. And Gandalf was totally wrong. My own private movie was a much better and more enjoyable production. But I often find this to be the case with made from a book movies.

RE: [ZION] The Return of the King

2003-11-18 Thread Jim Cobabe
John W. Redelfs wrote: --- Tell me, if I were to read a book by Roth, which one should I try first, something that would make me feel good about being alive? --- I read everything by Phillip Roth when I was too young to know better. Entertaining and sinfully engaging fiction, but many of the

[ZION] Standards vs Censorship

2003-11-18 Thread Jim Cobabe
Big gripe I had with the ALM crowd. Many of them are advocates for artistic freedom. They want license to write anything that contributes to a good-selling story, regardless of the implicit message or moral content -- including explicit descriptions of sexual behavior that clearly violates

[ZION] The Mouse

2003-11-18 Thread Jim Cobabe
Mickey is 75 today. Somehow defines the age of our culture. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

RE: [ZION] Mormon Writers

2003-11-18 Thread Jim Cobabe
Ron poses a false dilemma -- but it makes for a good story. A few years ago Elder Richard G. Scott gave a general conference address on the topic of cultural baggage. He indicated that cultural roots are and should be an important and integral part of our membership in the Church. We bring

[ZION] Scott Card

2003-11-18 Thread Jim Cobabe
Stephen Beecroft wrote: --- Orson Scott Card, LDS writer of fiction/science fiction/fantasy, has complained that most present-day authors eschew developing the character of good guys because, as they claim, bad guys are more interesting. --- Yet Card is not above using the same tactics as

RE: [ZION] News sources

2003-11-17 Thread Jim Cobabe
John W. Redelfs wrote: --- What are some of your favorite Internet radio destinations? I've just recently begun experimenting with KBYU-TV. --- In my backward locale, KBYU is standard fare. On Internet radio I most often tune to NPR, because it is not locally available on the broadcast

RE: [ZION] News sources

2003-11-16 Thread Jim Cobabe
Newspapers are a waste of time. Outdated anachronisms. I have always hated those damned inconvenient bundles of flimsy pages that are so cumbersome to manipulate, and such a worthless liability after the first scanning. And they're such a crashing bore. Most of the material is paid

RE: [ZION] News sources

2003-11-16 Thread Jim Cobabe
Another matter that leaves dead-tree news in the dust is simply the selection available in online media sources. There are thousands of online sources now. I can sample them all, at my leisure. I could never have had such a selection available in printed copies.

[ZION] Thoreau

2003-11-15 Thread Jim Cobabe
The very simplicity and nakedness of man's life in the primitive ages imply this advantage, at least, that they left him still but a sojourner in nature. When he was refreshed with food and sleep, he contemplated his journey again. He dwelt, as it were, in a tent in this world, and was either

RE: [ZION] Punch their lights out

2003-11-14 Thread Jim Cobabe
Ron Scott wrote: --- Where, in your opinion, is the communist threat today. --- Don't be silly. Eastern-bloc communism could be revived overnight. Communist governments in third-world countries in Eastern Europe, Africa, Asia, and South America are a constant threat to our security. Any

RE: [ZION] Punch their lights out

2003-11-14 Thread Jim Cobabe
Ron Scott wrote: --- Ah, I'm less than semi-rational. I suppose I'll validate your name calling if I say I don't agree with you. Not agreeing with you is prima facie evidence that I am less than semi-rational, right? --- Not agreeing with me is evidence that we do not agree. No surprise in

RE: [ZION] This is Me

2003-11-10 Thread Jim Cobabe
A most amazing hat-- (URL looks pretty mangled after I copied it. Might have to try a bit of cutting and pasting to resurrect the whole corpus.)

RE: [ZION] How to Become a Gospel Scholar

2003-11-10 Thread Jim Cobabe
Here's a paper addressing that topic from John Welch. He is not a general authority, but is certainly a gospel scholar with few peers. http://www.byui.edu/Ricks/employee/ALLREDP/Assignments-Gospel%20Scholarship/Welch%20on%20Gospel%20Scholarship.htm;

[ZION] Study topics this week

2003-11-10 Thread Jim Cobabe
Some things I am currently interested in studying: Character of Jesus during his youth. Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. DC 93:14 And thus he was called the Son of God, because he received not of the fulness at the first. Implications of

[ZION] One leads to another...

2003-11-07 Thread Jim Cobabe
George Cobabe wrote: Boy o Boy, that is certainly a response designed to continue discussion. It is interesting that the best you can offer is a complete denial that Stacy had anything useful to say and without and justification on your part. Not even a disclaimer that you

[ZION] Feng Shui

2003-11-07 Thread Jim Cobabe
What is feng shui? How does it reconcile with living the gospel of Christ? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

[ZION] Death of the Dinosaurs -- Revisited

2003-11-06 Thread Jim Cobabe
Since this was the topic of an earlier discussion about a looming and lowering lunar orbit threatening the heads of taller dinosaurs, I thought it might be of passing interest... Experts split on dinos' demise Though conventional wisdom among many scientists -- and newspaper

RE: [ZION] Official Doctrine #2

2003-11-06 Thread Jim Cobabe
John W. Redelfs wrote: --- Would that all the single men in the Church were as devoted to keeping the commandment to marry as seriously as you did and do. --- Many of us take it seriously too. As a single man I am working on addressing this concern as quickly as sanity and comfort can afford.

RE: [ZION] Catholics Mormons unite

2003-11-06 Thread Jim Cobabe
John W. Redelfs wrote: --- How can we teach 1) that all the other churches contain some truth, and 2) that we are the only true church? The two statements are not incompatible, but they might easily be confused by those of inadequate education. --- I believe it is being done as we speak. Do

RE: [ZION] An Illustrious Group

2003-11-06 Thread Jim Cobabe
John W. Redelfs wrote: Tom Valletta has just joined us. Welcome, Tom! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

[ZION] Elder Nelson and Unconditional Love

2003-11-05 Thread Jim Cobabe
My first assumption about Elder Nelson's article on Unconditional Love is that where I find problems, they are my own. I assume, absent sufficient evidence to the contrary, that Elder Nelson knows whereof he speaks, on this and many other subjects upon which he is called to teach and bear

RE: [ZION] Is God's Love Unconditional?

2003-11-05 Thread Jim Cobabe
Our characterizations and definitions of love itself are ambiguous at best. No surprise that discussions of this quality in the character and nature of God are fraught with difficulty. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER:

[ZION] Love is...

2003-11-05 Thread Jim Cobabe
One of my favorite characterizations of love is not scriptural or doctrinal, but poetic. Let me not to the marriage of true minds Admit impediments. Love is not love Which alters when it alteration finds, Or bends with the remover to remove: O no! it is an ever-fixed mark That looks on

RE: [ZION] Roll Call

2003-11-05 Thread Jim Cobabe
Jon Spencer wrote: I am not here. I'm over there. Blown off course in that last hurricane, no doubt. ;-) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

RE: [ZION] Cognitive Dissonance

2003-11-04 Thread Jim Cobabe
JWR: --- Hate the sin and love the sinner. I understand that. But why do I have to be accepting of a false church in order to be loving towards its deluded, lied to, and oppressed members? I can love a Catholic without loving his church. The same goes for a Lutheran, Methodist,

RE: [ZION] Mainstreaming Mormonism

2003-10-31 Thread Jim Cobabe
Religion re-enters S.L. mayoral race Pollster Jones says it regained dominant role Copyright 2003 Deseret Morning News By Bob Bernick Jr. Deseret Morning News Salt Lake City politics in the early 1900s had an ugly twist: Candidates and officeholders were judged by whether they were

RE: [ZION] A Dangerous Book

2003-10-31 Thread Jim Cobabe
John W. Redelfs wrote: --- I think that Bloom's book could be very dangerous to us as a people. What do you think? --- Not following you, John. What is a danger to us as LDS people? Seems to me that the greatest danger we face is not following our religion. We could become just like

RE: [ZION] Punch Their Lights Out

2003-10-31 Thread Jim Cobabe
Returning good for evil is an intriguing idea. But the suggestion in this context brings more questions than it seems to answer. How does one do this? What about Jesus whipping the moneychangers from the temple? Maybe punching their lights out was the appropriate response. Do aggressive

[ZION] Conversion

2003-10-26 Thread Jim Cobabe
New converts are not often full-grown in their testimony. They depend somewhat on socializing and fellowship to support their faith. As do we all. The Savior's counsel to Simon Peter -- When thou art converted, strenthen thy brethren. (Luke 22:32). I am continually wounded by discussions

[ZION] Inheritance of all things...

2003-10-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
Now some persons may begin to harrow up their feelings, and to cherish in their hearts murmurings because God in his providence and in his mercy and kindness, may begin to pour upon this man and upon that man blessings by which he accumulates wealth, and by which he is made comfortable and

RE: [ZION] Breaking the charter?

2003-10-17 Thread Jim Cobabe
My friends, I concern myself little about the fools who mock the truth. Their time is limited, they will wither away like the summer grass, and the truth will still be strong. One of the side effects naysayers unwittingly cause is raising the level of public awareness about the Church.

[ZION] Schwarzenegger

2003-10-11 Thread Jim Cobabe
Arnold becomes the new governor of California. Where else could such a thing happen? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

[ZION] Where have all the Mormon feminists gone?

2003-10-05 Thread Jim Cobabe
Where have all the Mormon feminists gone? By Peggy Fletcher Stack The Salt Lake Tribune No banners proclaiming Mormons for ERA will be soaring over the LDS General Conference this weekend as they did in the 1970s. No Mormon women will be picketing the semi-annual meeting or praying to

[ZION] Mormon movie

2003-10-05 Thread Jim Cobabe
Making the rounds of Utah theatres, panned by the critics: THE BOOK OF MORMON MOVIE, VOLUME 1: THE JOURNEY — ** — Proving that good intentions don't translate to good filmmaking, the first part of director Gary Rogers' ambitious live-action series (based on LDS scripture) is a lackluster

[ZION] A prophet speaks...

2003-10-05 Thread Jim Cobabe
President Hinckley is ever filled with boundless optimism and good cheer. Always uplifting to hear him speak. In his closing remarks, I seem to sense that he wishes to lift up the entire church with his blessings and counsel. I would hate to disappoint him. Elder Maxwell, though he has the

RE: [ZION] Where have all the Mormon feminists gone?

2003-10-05 Thread Jim Cobabe
The author of the article is one of those old-time man-hating feminists that apparently believed or sympathized with all the pernicious stereotypical ideas about the evils of patriarchy and blah blah blah. One of those for whom our friend John coined the term Signaturi. I am certain that

RE: [ZION] apostate working women {was}working woman

2003-09-21 Thread Jim Cobabe
Paul Osborne wrote: --- No one made you the judge. --- It would be pleasant to believe this. I could suspend all my struggles at discernment and tell myself, Not to worry, you're not the judge. Let someone else decide what is right and wrong. However easy that might be, it is not the

RE: [ZION] Private from Redelfs

2003-09-21 Thread Jim Cobabe
John, your not-so-private (:-)) charitable response is gratifying. My commentary was simply a point of discussion in which I hold an abiding interest. Always fascinating to hear what others think. No need to stir up bad feelings. I only hope to perhaps stimulate some new thoughts along

RE: [ZION] working woman

2003-09-20 Thread Jim Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Be careful, Jim, of painting all LDS working women with the same brush. --- Yah, hope I wasn't doing that. But here's something to consider further... It is in vain for persons to fancy to themselves that they are heirs with those, or can be heirs with them, who

RE: [ZION] working woman

2003-09-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
Sounds like we need not follow prophetic counsel as long as our circumstances make it inconvenient or uncomfortable for us. Am I getting this right? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// ///

RE: [ZION] working woman

2003-09-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
With regard to applying prophetic counsel, where is the line between personal prerogative and inspiration, and personal apostasy? 2 Sam 6:6-7 And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger

[ZION] confiding in bishops

2003-09-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
Counsel with the bishop is a standard answer. As a problem solving strategy, it usually doesn't work at all, at least in my experience. Bishops don't have effective answers for any but the most routine problems. Many of them are good at running LDS wards, but terrible as personal

RE: [ZION] working woman

2003-09-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
Stacy Smith wrote: --- Not exactly. Sometimes it can be very uncomfortable to follow prophetic counsel and sometimes circumstantial change does not warrant a change. If there is any difficulty in this, as there has been with me and the fast, one counsels with the bishop. --- Not sure I

RE: [ZION] apostate working women {was}working woman

2003-09-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
Val wrote: --- So it depends on which prophetic counsel you are referencing. --- In my view, prophetic counsel is consistent in letter and spirit from one day to the next, through all ages of time. If I see conflicts in the pronouncements from one prophet to another, I must assume that there

RE: [ZION] Confusion in Gospel Doctrine Class

2003-09-14 Thread Jim Cobabe
Paul Osborne wrote: --- This is outdated counsel and no longer meets with the necessary needs and requirements of many saints in a changing world that places new demands on families. I see President Hinckley has been slowly superseding this counsel at a rate that is not too far behind the

RE: [ZION] Confusion in Gospel Doctrine Class

2003-09-14 Thread Jim Cobabe
Stacy Smith wrote: --- The implications are that people from the far East are better? --- I implied no such thing, but since you asked, perhaps you could please instruct us on the subject of Far Eastern culture and marriage customs. Are their marriages better or worse than ours? How and why?

RE: [ZION] Confusion in Gospel Doctrine Class

2003-09-10 Thread Jim Cobabe
I wish I could understand why the contemporary western view is that our women are so transcendingly enlightened. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most contemporary western women have no regard for the correct principles of the gospel as they pertain specifically to women. Perhaps

[ZION] freedom versus free agency

2003-09-01 Thread Jim Cobabe
choices are most enticing or attractive to me personally? I assume that Heavenly Father already knew my inclination toward good or evil choices, but that it was something I needed to learn for myself. --- Jim Cobabe

RE: [ZION] West Nile virus

2003-08-22 Thread Jim Cobabe
related to the McKee family in Tridell. I have heard lots of jokes about family lines that frequently intertwine in this area. :-) --- Jim Cobabe // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http

RE: [ZION] West Nile virus

2003-08-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
Incidentally, although bovine and equine immunization has been available for a couple of years, no human vaccine for West Nile is yet available. I have read that it will be at least two more years before the newly developmed vaccine can be produced in large enough quantities to start

RE: [ZION] The September Six Today

2003-08-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
. I hope I never have to face the decision between loyalty to an intellectual cause and loyalty to my faith in Heaven Father. May we prosper together and ever try to lift each other up. --- Jim Cobabe // /// ZION LIST

[ZION] West Nile virus

2003-08-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
flocks of chickens in areas of central Utah and Utah Valley have now been infected. Two cases of equine encephalitis were found in the Uinah Basin, where I am working this summer. Anybody else know of local news about the spreading virus? --- Jim Cobabe

RE: [ZION] Temple Defilement

2003-08-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
with special interest. I do not believe the defilers have any power to do more than heap condemnation and destruction upon their own heads. Hopefully those who realize what they are doing will repent quickly, in fear and trembling. --- Jim Cobabe

[ZION] Gnostic secrets and Gospel truths

2003-08-18 Thread Jim Cobabe
there different from interlopers who intrude there? --- Jim Cobabe // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html

RE: [ZION] Breaking the Cartel?

2003-08-18 Thread Jim Cobabe
Steven Montgomery wrote: I'd sure like to see the DeBeer's diamond cartel broken: I wonder, Steven, what difference it would make. One conspiracy would probably just replace another. :-) --- Jim Cobabe

RE: [ZION] Mormon Faith in America

2003-08-15 Thread Jim Cobabe
John W. Redelfs wrote: --- I ran across a book review of a work entitled MORMON FAITH IN AMERICA by Maxine Hanks and Jeanne Kinney Williams. It is a children's book for grade 6 and up. --- One of the ways subversives inculcate their own values into the mainstream. They teach their

[ZION] Bankruptcy and LDS

2003-08-14 Thread Jim Cobabe
The liberal perspective examined... http://www.slweekly.com/editorial/2003/feat_2003-07-31.cfm // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

RE: [ZION] DNA and the Book of Mormon

2003-08-14 Thread Jim Cobabe
are wrong, and setting them aside. Not an easy task, to be sure. But necessary. Remember, faith is a knowledge of things we believe, which are true. We cannot exercise true faith in things that are false. --- Jim Cobabe

RE: [ZION] The Exodus from Nauvoo

2003-08-08 Thread Jim Cobabe
Persecution against the Saints does not have to assume the same form as those overt violent acts against the Church in the Nauvoo period. Even more hateful and vindictive injustice was weighed against the Church after it was established in the Rocky Mountains. The extent of the bureacratic

[ZION] Samoa Temple

2003-07-11 Thread Jim Cobabe
I wept when I learned of this sad news. Is something amiss in the Church, that the Lord would allow one of his temples to be destroyed? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// ///

[ZION] Krakauer

2003-07-11 Thread Jim Cobabe
I have not seen Turley's review of Krakauer's new book. But I know that Krakauer has build a journalistic tradition of stirring up trouble. I really enjoyed his book _Into Thin Air_, but it apparently stirred up a lot of controversy too.

RE: [ZION] Who Owns Coca-Cola?

2003-07-02 Thread Jim Cobabe
Well, Paul, I prefer Mountain Dew. It isn't Coke, so I can still claim to be holier-than-thou! ;-) At least those of us who are painfully honest about our bad habits can admit that we only like these drinks because of the things in them that are bad for us -- empty calories, pure sugar,

RE: [ZION] hand shakes

2003-06-23 Thread Jim Cobabe
Siblings, day-care attendance, and the risk of asthma and wheezing during childhood. Ball TM, Castro-Rodriguez JA, Griffith KA, Holberg CJ, Martinez FD, Wright AL. Department of Pediatrics, University of Arizona College of Medicine, Tucson, USA. BACKGROUND: Young children with older

RE: [ZION] Royal Families

2003-06-20 Thread Jim Cobabe
This doctrine of the election of grace is as follows: As part of the new song the saints will sing when they 'see eye to eye' and the millennial era has been ushered in will be these words, 'The Lord hath redeemed his people, Israel, According to the election of grace, Which was brought to

RE: [ZION] hand shakes

2003-06-20 Thread Jim Cobabe
My hand shakes a lot too. Whadda ya think we oughta do about it? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

RE: [ZION] Danites

2003-06-18 Thread Jim Cobabe
Danites and Avenging Angels are fun. One of the most imaginative and entertaining inventions of the anti-Mormons. Nibley has a good discussion of the topic in _Tinkling Cymbals and Sounding Brass_. // /// ZION LIST

RE: [ZION] Blood Atonement

2003-06-18 Thread Jim Cobabe
The true doctrine of blood atonement is simple to explain -- 3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. 4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord

RE: [ZION] Blood Atonement

2003-06-18 Thread Jim Cobabe
What a coincidence to find remarks on Utah's death penalty practices. Two firing squad executions were scheduled for next week, but were recently stayed pending bureacratic snafu. Utah still offers a choice to the condemned, though the policy is a topic of some controversy.

RE: [ZION] Lies about Iraqi museum just tip of iceberg

2003-06-16 Thread Jim Cobabe
Steven, I suppose the problem is not newspapers, but those who read them. If the vast majority of people were not prepared to believe at first glance everything fed to them by the news media, journalists with an agenda would be wholly frustrated in their attempts to lead public opinion. How

[ZION] Lies about Iraqi museum just tip of iceberg

2003-06-15 Thread Jim Cobabe
By Charles Krauthammer It took only 48 hours for the museum to be destroyed, with at least 170,000 artifacts carried away by looters. — New York Times, April 13 You'd have to go back centuries, to the Mongol invasion of Baghdad in 1258, to find looting on this scale. — British

RE: [ZION] Goodbye

2003-06-15 Thread Jim Cobabe
I wish I knew who it was that said, In essentials let there be unity: in non-essentials, liberty; and in all things, charity. But if I ever knew who said it I cannot now remember who it was, and I don't know that it matters, because the beauty and truth of the utterance is self-evident. It is

[ZION] Signs

2003-06-11 Thread Jim Cobabe
Paul spoke of a society that contained too many people who were fierce and without natural affection. (2 Timothy 3:3; Romans 1:31.) The absence of true affection brings unnatural affection. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use

RE: [ZION] Goodbye

2003-06-10 Thread Jim Cobabe
It is only with faith in God that we are able to face the events of this life. We often face the daily basic routine happenings, hardly recognizing the vital moving force that accompanies our comings and goings. However, like the ebb and flow of the waters on the shoreline, there come

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