Re: [ZION] Cuba and Castro

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Clifford M Dubery wrote: If being a Democrat in the US is a threat to ones worthiness, where does that put me, a member of the Australian Labor Party? Being a member of a party in our Westminster system means something different than it does in the U.S. In the U.S. every voter registers

Re: [ZION] Cult of personality

2002-10-22 Thread John W. Redelfs
At 12:01 AM, Tuesday, 10/22/02, Marc A. Schindler wrote: Actually I had posted this because some people had voiced doubts about whether you could be a good member and a Democrat. This idea is often attributed to a well-known GA. A person can be a Democrat and a good Mormon, or he can be a

Re: [ZION] Cult of personality

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Well, Pres. Jensen begs to differ. As in his interview, he points to the fact that both loaves need leaven (my words, not his, but that's my take on what he says). John W. Redelfs wrote: At 12:01 AM, Tuesday, 10/22/02, Marc A. Schindler wrote: Actually I had posted this because some people had

RE: [ZION] What's the point of high priests?

2002-10-22 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-John- Stephen, it would be helpful if you would also contribute to the list when you are happy with us. We know that you will straighten us out if we make a mistake, but that shouldn't be our whole relationship, do you think? Of course not. Forgive me. I had assume a discussion list was for

RE: [ZION] Notice from Listowner

2002-10-22 Thread chet-el
MStar, the service I use, hasn't been bouncing anything as far as we can tell. It's even allowed some messages which one would think MStar's filter would stop. (So-called adult messages. Why is it that mature and adult now mean anything but mature or adult?) But I FINALLY, FINALLY, FINALLY

Re: [ZION] High priests

2002-10-22 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 07:59 10/21/2002 -0500, Gary wrote: And yes, we have a secret handshake that you elders know nothing about. What??? I thought that was just the special grip that we use to keep each other from falling out of chairs when we fell asleep. Till

RE: [ZION] High priests

2002-10-22 Thread Larry Jackson
Till writes: What??? I thought that was just the special grip that we use to keep each other from falling out of chairs when we fell asleep. ___ Oh, Till. It serves a far more important purpose than that. As you shake right hands, place two fingers of the left hand just

Re: [ZION] Stop kicking the stuffing out of Turkey

2002-10-22 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 12:03 AM 10/22/2002, Marc wrote: What difference does that make to the point I've been trying to make that it was US meddling that paved the way to his [Castro's] rise to power? We have no argument here. I agree. Although probably for different reasons. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL

Voting and parties (was Re: [ZION] Cuba and Castro)

2002-10-22 Thread Mark Gregson
In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably from What? You mean to say that you cannot vote in the US unless you register your preference? Is that true? And if it is, what's the point of it? Since your vote is secret,

Re: [ZION] High priests

2002-10-22 Thread Jon Spencer
Till - every time we went over this handshake I tried to wake you up, but to no avail. I would have had your home teacher go over it with you, but we can only teach it in the HP group meeting. Noj Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 07:59 10/21/2002 -0500, Gary wrote: And yes, we have a secret

Re: [ZION] Cult of personality

2002-10-22 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 12:01 AM 10/22/2002, Marc wrote: Was he LDS? (just curious; I know the incident you're talking about. I also know there's absolutely no proof that he was taken out -- that's an old canard, although I'm not surprised it's still quacking in certain circles). To my knowledge Larry P. McDonald

Re: [ZION] First Presidency statement on war

2002-10-22 Thread Scott McGee
On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:54:26 -0600, Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: No one has asked anybody to forgive terrorists. They deserve to be brought to justice Perhaps I am wrong, but my understanding is that we _DO_ have to forgive the terrorists. That doesn't, however, mean that they

Re: [ZION] High priests

2002-10-22 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 08:48 10/22/2002 -0400, Patient noJ wrote: Till - every time we went over this handshake I tried to wake you up, but to no avail. I would have had your home teacher go over it with you, but we can only teach it in the HP group meeting. They sure were cool dreams, too. Something to do with

Re: [ZION] High priests have money

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:54:03 -0600 Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Okay, this is all very interesting and very useful (and I mean that sincerely), so let me ask another question: what about those of us who are unlikely, for one reason or another (assuming, of course, that we're

Re: [ZION] High priests

2002-10-22 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 12:08 10/22/2002 -0600, M Marc wrote: My spouse is a Vulcan, and she's giving me the death grip. Till was Vulcanized once. To keep his brains from leaking out. Unfortunately, it was too little, too late Till who's too tired to go round and round on this, so just wheel me on

Re: [ZION] Cult of personality

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I owe you a bit of an apology, I think. I went to the link this time -- I have to admit I was not aware there was a theory that the plane didn't actually crash. I merely assumed you were repeating a story I've heard often, that the plane was deliberately targeted because McDonald was on board

Re: [ZION] Cult of personality

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
A person can be a Democrat and a good Mormon, or he can be a Mormon and a good Democrat; but he cannot be both a good Democrat and a good Mormon. --JWR I can see that John has slammed the Democrat Mormons with his little jingle. So, if a Democrat can be a good Mormon but a good Democrat cannot

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
Sounds reasonable to me. Wouldn't it be a gas to learn that President Hinkley did in fact vote for Bush? I wonder what JWR would say then? Would he then take back his Gadianton accusations? Paul O On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:15:49 -0600 Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I look at it this

Re: [ZION] First Presidency statement on war

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I agree. The term forgive can be ambiguous; in the moral sense we are to forgive everyone, but the term is often used in a secular sense of not bringing them to justice, as in dismissing their crime. And I wanted to make it clear that that wasn't what I believed. Scott McGee wrote: On Sun, 20

Re: [ZION] Stop kicking the stuffing out of Turkey

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
Trouble is, where is the General Authority who disagrees with ETB regarding this particular issue, that of Fidel Castro being a communist? I haven't been able to find one. Perhaps there is a general consensus then? O come on Steven, get real. We don't even know which of the Presidential

Re: [ZION] Cuba and Castro

2002-10-22 Thread Scott McGee
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002 01:45:06 -0600, Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Being a member of a party in our Westminster system means something different than it does in the U.S. In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably

[ZION] Iraqi women

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
with them for his own purposes). Women have a more open role in Iraq than in many other countries in the region: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/20021022/UWOMEN/International/international/international_temp/1/1/29/ -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway

[ZION] Tweaking Canada

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Laden's father, Mohammed. There's no link between SGB and Osama bin Laden per se anymore, I just thought it was an interesting irony. Okay, finally to the link about Canadian mining companies being bad boys with big toys: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/20021022/UCONGX

[ZION] More on James's Ossuary

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
More on the alleged find of James's ossuary (James the brother of Jesus): http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/20021022/UBONEN/Headlines/headdex/headdexInternational_temp/22/22/29/ One note of caution which I'm sure many of you already know: Hershel Shanks has done a lot

Re: Voting and parties (was Re: [ZION] Cuba and Castro)

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Mark Gregson wrote: In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably from What? You mean to say that you cannot vote in the US unless you register your preference? Is that true? And if it is, what's the point of it? Since

RE: [ZION] Voting and parties

2002-10-22 Thread Larry Jackson
Mark Gregson: You mean to say that you cannot vote in the US unless you register your preference? Is that true? And if it is, what's the point of it? Since your vote is secret, why register a preference? ___ I do not recall living in a state where you had to declare a party

[ZION] The new public mall at Temple Square

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Interesting article from today's SL Trib: http://www.sltrib.com/10222002/utah/9448.htm -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland “We do not think that there is an incompatibility between words and deeds; the worst thing is to rush into action before

Re: [ZION] Stop kicking the stuffing out of Turkey

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Thank you. Steven Montgomery wrote: At 12:03 AM 10/22/2002, Marc wrote: What difference does that make to the point I've been trying to make that it was US meddling that paved the way to his [Castro's] rise to power? We have no argument here. I agree. Although probably for different

RE: [ZION] High priests

2002-10-22 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Gary- The only person among Elders with keys is the Elders Quorum president. In other words, the only elder with keys is the presiding elder. Well, of course. And the only high priest with keys is the presiding high priest. Yet, his keys are limited. As are the bishop's or stake

RE: [ZION] Tweaking Canada

2002-10-22 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Marc- I think it's time I correct an impression that I somehow have an anti-US bias. [...] I am by nature a bit of a contrarian [...] the US is the superpower de jour. A century ago I would have been anti-English so to speak. Let's see if I understand what you wrote. Here is what I heard: I

RE: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)

2002-10-22 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Marc- In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably from This is not correct. -Mark- What? You mean to say that you cannot vote in the US unless you register your preference? Is that true? No, it is not true. Many states do

Re: [ZION] High priests have money

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I think I see your point, even past the tongue in your cheek, and hadn't thought about that. The Lord needs a pool to draw from, and the HP are that pool, so whether any given HP is or is not eventually called to what I keep calling a posiiton of line authority (to use a secular term) is

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Although I don't agree with John's terminology and system of reference in this regard, logically speaking I don't see why he'd have to take back his accusations. It's still a civic duty to vote -- that's clear LDS doctrine as far as I know (okay, I'm extrapolating from the 12th AoF, but the point

Re: [ZION] Cuba and Castro

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
As might your post wrt the list's charter :-/ If, otoh, he takes Pres. Jensen's approach, he works as a force for good from within, then he's following the brethren's counsel. Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Clifford- Well well well, what a discussion about whether Castro was a communist as

Re: [ZION] Tweaking Canada

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Marc- I think it's time I correct an impression that I somehow have an anti-US bias. [...] I am by nature a bit of a contrarian [...] the US is the superpower de jour. A century ago I would have been anti-English so to speak. Let's see if I understand what

Re: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Marc- In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably from This is not correct. Please don't interrupt. If you read the whole post, I made clear that this was to vote in party conventions -- what you

Re:RE: [ZION] Voting and parties

2002-10-22 Thread Val
-- Larry Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mark Gregson: You mean to say that you cannot vote in the US unless you register your preference? Is that true? And if it is, what's the point of it? Since your vote is secret, why register a preference? ___ I do not recall

RE: [ZION] Tweaking Canada

2002-10-22 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Stephen- Let's see if I understand what you wrote. Here is what I heard: I am not anti-US. Rather, I am anti-Big-Kahoona, and the US is the Big Kahoona right now. Please confirm if I have actual reason to laugh, or if I've somehow misunderstood you. -Marc- I think my original post was

RE: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)

2002-10-22 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Marc- In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably from -Stephen- This is not correct. -Marc- Please don't interrupt. Oops. My bad. I had thought this was John Redelfs' discussion list, not Marc Schindler's lecture hall.

Re: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Exactly. I was referring to state party conventions, what you call in US English, primaries. Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Marc- In the U.S. every voter registers for a party (or as an independent -- as I recall the rules vary considerably from -Stephen- This is not correct. -Marc-

Re: [ZION] RE: Voting and parties

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Val- And, for the record John ;-) I am a good Mormon Democrat (put the modifer where you will). Then I'm willing to bet you're not a liberal Democrat. Because of that, many other Democrats would certainly not consider you to be good. But I agree with you; it's

Re: [ZION] Cult of personality

2002-10-22 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 12:25 PM 10/22/2002, Marc wrote regarding the website www.rescue007.org: AFAI am concerned, the site's purpose is to sell a book. But when I get to the other side I'll look for any KAL 007 vets. Who knows. I don't think the site sell's enough books to pay for itself. The reason Bert

Re: [ZION] Stop kicking the stuffing out of Turkey

2002-10-22 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 12:44 PM 10/22/2002, you wrote: Trouble is, where is the General Authority who disagrees with ETB regarding this particular issue, that of Fidel Castro being a communist? I haven't been able to find one. Perhaps there is a general consensus then? O come on Steven, get real. We don't even

Re: [ZION] Stop kicking the stuffing out of Turkey

2002-10-22 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 11:58 PM 10/21/2002, Marc wrote: Straw man, Steven. I have never tried to argue that Castro is not Communist, is not a dictator. We are talking right past each other. I'm admitting all the bad things you are saying about him, but saying that the US had a large -- indeed, the major -- part

Re: [ZION] Tweaking Canada

2002-10-22 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 01:23 PM 10/22/2002, you wrote: I think it's time I correct an impression that I somehow have an anti-US bias. I can see how that would come out, and those of you who know me from LDS-Poll would see it even more there. The reasons, from *my* perspective, for this are that I am by nature a bit

RE: [ZION] RE: Voting and parties

2002-10-22 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Val- I am a good Mormon Democrat -Stephen- Then I'm willing to bet you're not a liberal Democrat. -Marc- Please don't define *our* language for us. Marc, I am talking to a fellow American here, not to an Aussie or a Brit. If your understanding of American politics too sparse to acquaint

RE: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)

2002-10-22 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Marc- Exactly. I was referring to state party conventions, what you call in US English, primaries. Interesting. So, then, what did you intend to say when you wrote: So to say that my late father was a Democrat means that he was registered as a Democrat. As it happens, this is pretty

Re: [ZION] Stop kicking the stuffing out of Turkey

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Steven Montgomery wrote: Then what are we arguing about? Who's on first, I guess :-) -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland “We do not think that there is an incompatibility between words and deeds; the worst thing is to rush into action before

Re: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Marc- Exactly. I was referring to state party conventions, what you call in US English, primaries. Interesting. So, then, what did you intend to say when you wrote: So to say that my late father was a Democrat means that he was registered as a

Re: [ZION] High priests

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
Gary said: There isn't anymore salvation promised to a high priest as to an elder (as the MP is all that is required in this life), Yep. but eventually (presumably if not now, in the next life) one will have to be a high priest to preside over a presidency in heaven. I don't think so Gary

RE: [ZION] Voting and parties (was Re: Cuba and Castro)

2002-10-22 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Stephen- Interesting. So, then, what did you intend to say when you wrote: So to say that my late father was a Democrat means that he was registered as a Democrat. As it happens, this is pretty meaningless, because the vote is secret, and you can vote for whomever you

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
Marc: Although I don't agree with John's terminology and system of reference in this regard, logically speaking I don't see why he'd have to take back his accusations. It's still a civic duty to vote -- that's clear LDS doctrine as far as I know (okay, I'm extrapolating from the 12th AoF, but the

Re: [ZION] RE: Voting and parties

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
Please don't define *our* language for us. You can demonize the word all you want, but please keep your etymological waste products to yourself. Liberal is still a perfectly fine word in the majority of the English-speaking world. I agree. The Republicans are trying to kill a perfectly good word

Re: [ZION] Cult of personality

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Thanks for the additional information. Steven Montgomery wrote: At 12:25 PM 10/22/2002, Marc wrote regarding the website www.rescue007.org: AFAI am concerned, the site's purpose is to sell a book. But when I get to the other side I'll look for any KAL 007 vets. Who knows. I don't think the

Re: [ZION] Stop kicking the stuffing out of Turkey

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
It was merely a rhetorical question. Oh. I'm a little dumb. ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Paul Osborne wrote: My point was two fold. If Bush was indeed a Gadianton as JWR says he is it would be a sad and sorry thing for President Hinkley to vote for him. That would really bother me quite a bit. O boy O boy! I'm not sure I see that, but I won't argue the point. Second, it

Re: [ZION] Stop kicking the stuffing out of Turkey

2002-10-22 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 05:42 PM 10/22/2002, you wrote: It was merely a rhetorical question. Oh. I'm a little dumb. ;-) Paul O As we all are at times. ;-) -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of selfless public service and heroic

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
Marc: Now this is an interesting thought. Do you really think this follows? (that the prophet's personal vote should, if it were known, be the example for the rest of us?) And how do you handle the fact that in any case this *can* only apply to a minority of LDS, since most LDS are not US?

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
OK. I was just wondering -- I won't argue the point. Paul Osborne wrote: Marc: Now this is an interesting thought. Do you really think this follows? (that the prophet's personal vote should, if it were known, be the example for the rest of us?) And how do you handle the fact that in any

Re: [ZION] RE: Voting and parties

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Yer a gay blade, y'are, Paul ;-) (as they still say in Newfoundland) Paul Osborne wrote: Please don't define *our* language for us. You can demonize the word all you want, but please keep your etymological waste products to yourself. Liberal is still a perfectly fine word in the majority of

Re: [ZION] Bad feelings

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Stephen, I don't want the last word in that sense, and I certainly don't want to leave a bitter feeling in anyone's mind. I think our problem is that we're talking past each other. It happens often -- it's human nature. Human language is ambiguous by nature -- it's not like a programming language.

Re: [ZION] Cuba and Castro

2002-10-22 Thread Clifford M Dubery
Stephen, for some reason I didn't get your post so I am replying to Marc's and yours. I take my civic responsibilities seriously and decided some years ago, to join a political party. My judgement was, the better party as far as my own beliefs and interests go was the ALP. I felt corruption

Re: [ZION] Cuba and Castro

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Clifford M Dubery wrote: Stephen, for some reason I didn't get your post so I am replying to Marc's and yours. I take my civic responsibilities seriously and decided some years ago, to join a political party. My judgement was, the better party as far as my own beliefs and interests go was

[ZION] What's the point of high priests?

2002-10-22 Thread Gary Smith
Don't feel bad, Stephen. You aren't the only antagonist on this list We have many that love antagonizing others. Perhaps we could use a different term though. Antagonize seems so negative, and there is just too much negativity these days. Let's try a nicer, more positive word, like, Taunt.

[ZION] Jimmy Carter - Nobel winner

2002-10-22 Thread Gary Smith
Marc, it amazes me how deep you are on so many things, but then you go and say something that really shows you didn't fully think it through. An action by a person really doesn't mean much if it doesn't turn out as it should. Yes, Carter went to N Korea and supposedly defused the situation in

[ZION] liberal question

2002-10-22 Thread Gary Smith
Well, Marc wouldn't fit this, as he isn't Democrat. So, in the case of liberal Canadians, I think they are able to be straight laced LDS. As for liberal Democrats, I think you could have one attending the temple. However, their belief system would definitely go against the gospel. The average

[ZION] Have you found Jesus?

2002-10-22 Thread Gary Smith
There is a news story out that a private collector has shown an ossuary (stone box that holds the bones of a dead person), with the Aramaic inscription: James, son of Joseph and brother of Jesus. This dates to about 70 AD, about the time that James the founder of the Christian Church in

RE: [ZION] High priests

2002-10-22 Thread Rick Mathis
At 07:40 PM 10/22/2002 +, Stephen wrote: -Gary- The only person among Elders with keys is the Elders Quorum president. In other words, the only elder with keys is the presiding elder. Well, of course. And the only high priest with keys is the presiding high priest. Yet, his keys are

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-22 Thread John W. Redelfs
At 01:39 PM, Tuesday, 10/22/02, Paul Osborne wrote: Sounds reasonable to me. Wouldn't it be a gas to learn that President Hinkley did in fact vote for Bush? I wonder what JWR would say then? Would he then take back his Gadianton accusations? Gore is a Gadianton too, so what choice do any of us

Re: [ZION] Stop kicking the stuffing out of Turkey

2002-10-22 Thread John W. Redelfs
At 01:44 PM, Tuesday, 10/22/02, Paul Osborne wrote: O come on Steven, get real. We don't even know which of the Presidential candidates the GA's voted for let alone which parties they think the world leaders are in. So how come we know where President Benson stood on these issues? --JWR

RE: [ZION] RE: Voting and parties

2002-10-22 Thread John W. Redelfs
At 09:09 PM, Tuesday, 10/22/02, Stephen Beecroft wrote: But in my judgment, you can't be a liberal Democrat, supporting the liberal Democrat party line, and still be a faithful, believing Latter-day Saint. Much as some, American and otherwise, might find that hard to understand, I think it's

Re:RE: [ZION] Voting and parties

2002-10-22 Thread John W. Redelfs
At 08:43 PM, Tuesday, 10/22/02, Val wrote: And, for the record John ;-) I am a good Mormon Democrat (put the modifer where you will). The Republicans in my area are corrupt money grubbers. They could care less about me or any other John Q. Public type--just see who can line their pockets

RE: [ZION] RE: Voting and parties

2002-10-22 Thread Stephen Beecroft
Now, now, Marc. Giving you the last word doesn't mean giving you license to misquote and make stuff up. To wit: You used the phrase [here] and elsewhere. It was the elsewhere that I was taking objection to. This is untrue. I did not use the phrase and elsewhere, as you yourself go on to

Re: [ZION] RE: Voting and parties

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Sorry, you're right -- you wrote otherwise. But I don't see that it makes any difference to my ultimate point. In any case, I've admitted that I should have asked you what you meant before I responded, so you still have a point. Stephen Beecroft wrote: Now, now, Marc. Giving you the last word

[ZION] High Priests

2002-10-22 Thread Gary Smith
It is partially an issue of maturity/age: placing those who have not had a line authority position requiring HP status, into the HP quorum/group, in order to strengthen the individual and also to strengthen the quorum. This happens depending upon the make up of the quorums/groups in a

[ZION] Tweaking Liechtensteiners

2002-10-22 Thread Gary Smith
So, you are judging a small patch of Europe because you couldn't find an open restaurant? Have you tried doing that in Canada? I once had to cross three provinces in Canada to find an open restaurant! At least Liechtenstein has the presence of mind of being only 10 minutes from a good restaurant!

[ZION] I just hate it

2002-10-22 Thread Gary Smith
Hopefully Marc and Stephen can remember to be Christians first, and right second. As for being dizzy. Maybe you need to not follow either. Perhaps they are both wrong, or both right. There isn't always a black and white answer. They are both giving good reasonings, however issues can go deeper

[ZION] High Priest

2002-10-22 Thread Gary Smith
Then you would logically follow from your argument that one wouldn't have to be ordained a god, king and high priest? That's not what I read in the scriptures. I read in Rev 1:6 and other references that we must be made kings and high priests unto God the Father. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smith