Re: [ZION] The Jerusalem Temple

2002-10-27 Thread Grampa Bill
Gary Smith wrote: Most Jewish religions now see Christ as a righteous man who taught good. They respect him as a teacher of righteousness. They just do not accept him as Messiah. = Grampa Bill asks: How can this be? If Jesus was not the Christ, the Son of God, then His

Re: [ZION] The Four Ancient Nations

2002-10-27 Thread Marc A. Schindler
It is as far as the origin of mathematics is concerned, so far as I know. John W. Redelfs wrote: http://library.thinkquest.org/22584/emh1100.htm?tqskip1=1tqtime=1026 I found this statement while surging the web. Can anyone here tell me if it is accurate? In the Nile in Africa, the Tigris

Re: [ZION] Jerusalem temple

2002-10-27 Thread John W. Redelfs
At 07:09 AM, Sunday, 10/27/02, Ronn Blankenship wrote: I think it's possible, because there are people who are not yet ready to go all the way from wherever they are now to the Fullness of the Gospel in one step. If they are honestly seeking the truth, I believe God will lead them to it in

Re: [ZION] A Disturbing Contradiction

2002-10-27 Thread Paul Osborne
This is exactly how I see it and this is what the scriptures teach. I can tell that John is quite familiar and in perfect touch with the style of Bruce R McConkie's teachings and Mark E Peterson's too. All of the GA's teach this but deliver it in their own style. Some are gentle like President

Re: [ZION] What is patriotism?

2002-10-27 Thread Marc A. Schindler
This is a touching and, ironically, a from-the-heart answer. But where are the counter-arguments from the head? Gary Smith wrote: This is the problem with many liberal writers-they make statements from the heart, regardless of whether they back up their statements with facts, or if those

Re: [ZION] demonizing the media

2002-10-27 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Ironically, it has now come out that MSNBC and CNN in particular cooperated with Montgomery Co. police by sitting on stories they had, for the public good. One reporter said that the code amongst journalists covering wars and the like, is not to report on strategy or troop movements in advance.

Re: [ZION] What is patriotism?

2002-10-27 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Here's another example of where John and I would agree, although perhaps for different reasons. I don't think it has anything to do with George II's and Cheney's membership in any secret organization, but rather because Cheney is more powerful than the president and better connected (and more of a

[ZION] Hindu Temple

2002-10-27 Thread Valerie Nielsen Williams
On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 09:31:28 -0500 (Easter Noel Bennion [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have to assume that the 'value' gained from helping other churches comes from the missionary opportunities that result. It would be interesting to see if anyone involved in these types of donations ends

Re: [ZION] Who is the House of Israel?

2002-10-27 Thread Valerie Nielsen Williams
Noel: After reading your response to John, I had a thought (I know, scary thing). Sometimes--in fact many times--in the scriptures and doctrines of the church, one word does mean many different things. For example--salvation and exaltation. Are they the same?? Sometimes Salvation is

Re: [ZION] The Jerusalem Temple

2002-10-27 Thread Valerie Nielsen Williams
We have many sects in this area who are Messianic Jews. They DO believe Christ is the Messiah. Unfortunately, there are those of traditional Jewish belief who shun and bad mouth them. The Messianic Jews have even had crosses burned in their yards--crosses the KKK says wasn't them. Go figure.

Re: [ZION] Jerusalem temple

2002-10-27 Thread Valerie Nielsen Williams
On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 09:08:21 -0900 John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At 11:46 PM, Saturday, 10/26/02, Paul Osborne wrote: And by the way--you said: They do not have *all* the saving truths or ordinances but I submit to you that they have NONE because all saving truths and

[ZION] American Gnosticism

2002-10-27 Thread John W. Redelfs
I recently heard Mormonism referred to as American gnosticism. What does that mean? Does it mean salvation through the acquiring of secret knowledge? And if that is so, are we not modern gnostics? For we are taught that gospel knowledge is the most important kind of knowledge and we call

RE: [ZION] Who is the House of Israel?

2002-10-27 Thread Noel Bennion
I agree that there can be multiple meanings across the realm of sacred literature. I am not as interested in the dictionary meaning as I am in the meaning of its particular use in scripture. I would be very easy to simply say that, since gentile, for example, as multiple meanings, I can ignore

Re: [ZION] American Gnosticism

2002-10-27 Thread Paul Osborne
I recently heard Mormonism referred to as American gnosticism. What does that mean? I'm not sure but it sounds like something that is associated with the ideas and teachings of a progressive religion that has it's own tangents outside of mainstream thinking. I can see how this term could be

[ZION] Al-Ahram Weekly | Heritage | Letting the people go

2002-10-27 Thread Clifford M Dubery
Levantines from all walks of life have been settling in Egypt from very early times. Their presence can be traced back to the Middle Kingdom about 2000 BC, and they came in increasing waves from the New Kingdom, about 1567 BC, when Egypt commanded a vast empire that included Syria and northern

[ZION] Hooray for Bollywood!

2002-10-27 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Bollywood meets Hollywood...in T-town. http://www.nationalpost.ca/search/site/story.asp?id=E6D0EF11-93AC-4CA6-9241-520BCDAB3080 Fact: Bollywood produces far more movies per year than Hollywood. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland “We do not think

Re: [ZION] Who is the House of Israel?

2002-10-27 Thread Noel Bennion
Val, You hit the issue on the head. In one context, a word has a particular meaning, in another something different. But, after the first scratch of the surface, I can see that there are definite patterns. For example, in 1st Nephi chapters 13-15, one can see a pattern of pre-restoration (1st

RE: [ZION] Who is the House of Israel?

2002-10-27 Thread Jim Cobabe
Israel is covenant-founded, temple-based, and Christ-centered. The work of Jesus Christ is the reason the covenant of Abraham exists. The Abrahamic covenant, which is the covenant of Israel, is in every way as significant in the last days as it was in any age of the past. Jesus Christ is the

Re: [ZION] Jerusalem temple

2002-10-27 Thread Noel Bennion
I recently finished reading The Life and Times of Martin Luther by D aubigne. As a minor point, Luther never left the Catholic Church, he was excommunicated twice though. It is no doubt that they did not have the fulness of the gospel, but I do believe that they were led by the Spirit to achieve

Re: [ZION] Hindu Temple

2002-10-27 Thread Noel Bennion
I guess my point on this was a veiled question on how to rationalize John's position regarding the quality and quantity of truth in other religions with the donations sanctions by the Church to these non Christian groups. There is the reference in DC 51:10 which states: And let that which

RE: [ZION] Who is the House of Israel?

2002-10-27 Thread Jim Cobabe
Great consideration is given regarding the confidentiality of the decisions of a Church disciplinary council. No announcement is ever made when a member is placed on formal probation. Decisions to disfellowship or excommunicate are generally not announced publicly unless the transgression is

[ZION] Iowa: the most democratic place in the USA?

2002-10-27 Thread Marc A. Schindler
In praise of Iowa: (The Economist, 17/10/02) American politics In praise of Iowa Oct 17th 2002 From The Economist print edition The only democratic part of the United States THIS newspaper has doubts about Iowa. It is too empty. And every four years presidential candidates file to its

Re: [ZION] American Gnosticism

2002-10-27 Thread Marc A. Schindler
This is the theme of Harold Bloom's book, The American Religion. He means that we believe we have a body of knowledge not known to the body of Christians in general. I'd suggest reading his book for more information. John W. Redelfs wrote: I recently heard Mormonism referred to as American

[ZION] Oh, what a lovely ally

2002-10-27 Thread Marc A. Schindler
It's awfully hard not to say I told you so But Pakistan is the real concern, not Iraq, as the election results show. See article below, from the 19/10/02 issue of The Economist: Pakistan's election Oh, what a lovely ally Oct 17th 2002 | LAHORE From The Economist print edition An

[ZION] Tongue-tied

2002-10-27 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Remember when we were discussing how to pronounce John Tvedtnes's last name (TWET-ness is the right way, incidentally), and we were talking about how hard it is to pronounce some languages? Well, here's a real tongue-twister, one of the so-called click languages that anyone who saw The Gods Must

[ZION] Blessed

2002-10-27 Thread Jim Cobabe
My friends, I fervently pray that the Lord might generously bless all those who suffer or are sorely afflicted. May their souls be salved with healing and relief. As for myself, I reiterate my own marvel--every Sunday, the doors of the church do not of themselves swing shut, at my very

[ZION] Isaiah Study Resource

2002-10-27 Thread Steven Montgomery
Check out Ivan D. Sanderson's magnificent Isaiah study site: http://isaiah.1hwy.com/ -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] . . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and comprehend the social and

Re: [ZION] Blessed

2002-10-27 Thread Marc A. Schindler
We're thankful this evening that the Washington snipers have been caught, and that the Chechen terrorists have been routed from the Moscow opera house with minimal loss of life. As bad as it was, it could have been worse. Jim Cobabe wrote: My friends, I fervently pray that the Lord might

Re: [ZION] Oh, what a lovely ally

2002-10-27 Thread Clifford M Dubery
Yes, but rational thought in US Foreign Policy is not necessary when fighting the war on terror. The origins of the Taliban in Pakistan and Al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia, the fundamentalist nature of the latter and the move towards fundamentalism in the North of the other point to a threat from

Re: [ZION] Oh, what a lovely ally

2002-10-27 Thread Marc A. Schindler
And I'll bet Putin's awfully glad he wrested a grudging okay out of George Bush to consider the Chechens terrorists after what happened in the Moscow theatre house the past few days (5 Canadians were amongst the hostages). It looks like al-Qaeda's been scattered, but like the metal bits in the

[ZION] Jerusalem Temple (A Jewish Perspective

2002-10-27 Thread Clifford M Dubery
Here is an example of how the apocalyptic Jews feel about the Temple and, my opinion of course, they are very dangerous for peace and stability in Jerusalem. They know all about the Temple and rehearse on a regular basis the ordinances of the Temple, all of which can be found in the Torah.