[ZION] LDS scientist at forefront of research into newly discovered insectorde

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Just FYI: a copy of a post to Eyring-L. The site for Zoology 475 (Evolution) at BYU, which is taught by Michael Whiting, Duane Jeffery and others, is at: http://zoology.byu.edu/zool475/ (note the link to the BYU package on evolution which is sent to anyone asking what BYU's or the Church's policy

Re: [ZION] Home automation

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
About the closest I'll ever get to automation is my talking computer, talking thermometer, talking VCR, talking alarm clock, talking braille device with speech included, etc. Stacy. At 05:05 AM 11/08/2002 +, you wrote: Anyone here interested in home automation? Anyone do any? Stephen

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Paul Osborne
After much pondering, Paul Osborne favored us with: The President of the United States and US intelligence has determined that he is guilty. Case closed. Just hope they don't find you guilty of anything without evidence. --JWR The US government is not that broken John. It is without a doubt

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Paul Osborne
Actually he admitted it on a videotape played on Al-Jezeera television, out of Doha, Qatar, the day after. He'd prepared the video ahead of time, so there's not much doubt. Right. And, I'm in favor of nuclear strikes if necessary--if that's what it takes to knock out those people that support

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
Again, you fail to answer the question. Why do you say that we have left the job half done? What evidence do you have that nothing is happening against the Taliban. I see plenty happening. What in the world are you talking about I gave you several options to choose from and you didn't

Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of malleable truth

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
Just to be clear, I was making fun of your statement. You say that we are the laughingstock of the world, and I just laugh at that (Ha ha! :-). The US is in a very difficult position of having sufficient power to destroy most any enemy, but having no desire to simply crush an entire country (and

Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of malleable truth

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
I expect that sometime in the future, sooner or later, the power of the US will dwindle and someone else will rise to preeminence. That will clearly be a hard pill to swallow. But it hasn't happened yet, so let's not worry too much about it. Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote in part: There's an

Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
It wouldn't matter if they did - they wouldn't honor them. Especially considering their votes today in the UN. Jon John W. Redelfs wrote: After much pondering, Stacy Smith favored us with: I basically believe we will attack and they in turn attack us. We will then incite the entire

Re: [ZION] Osama bin Laden

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
I am constantly amazed at the fuzzy thinking that some people exhibit by dragging up this obviously silly argument. Now let me get this straight by using another example that, I believe, is entirely analogous. We have a war against crime in the US. It has been going on for as long as the US has

Re: [ZION] Mars Attacks

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
I know that you are being facetious here, but I truly hope that this is not your dream. If this were to happen, you would lose all of your sacred privileges and rights, and the US would be overtaken by the criminals among us, including those who would like to redistribute your vast wealth. Jon

[ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
Marc, Who in your opinion presents the best, book length, argument in favor of evolution? And who in your opinion best presents the best argument against evolution? I ask these questions so that I might systematically study both sides of the issue to see who has the better arguments using

Re: [ZION] Osama bin Laden

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
Unfortunately, the target is way out in LEFT field, a rather funny place for JWR to be shooting arrows! Jon My point exactly and right on target. Stacy. At 11:07 AM 11/07/2002 -0900, you wrote: Is everyone pretty convinced that Osama bin Laden is still alive? If he is, maybe we should

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
Yes, but cocky people are very proud of their deeds. I don't have any doubts. Stacy. At 07:13 AM 11/08/2002 -0900, you wrote: After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Actually he admitted it on a videotape played on Al-Jezeera television, out of Doha, Qatar, the day after.

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
I thought the church should strongly against the issue on an evolutionary process. Stacy. At 06:36 AM 11/08/2002 -0900, you wrote: Marc, Who in your opinion presents the best, book length, argument in favor of evolution? And who in your opinion best presents the best argument against

Re: [ZION] Osama bin Laden

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
Well, we can only spread ourselves so thin. Stacy. At 11:34 AM 11/08/2002 -0500, you wrote: I am constantly amazed at the fuzzy thinking that some people exhibit by dragging up this obviously silly argument. Now let me get this straight by using another example that, I believe, is entirely

Re: [ZION] Home automation

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
Yep - I have automated quite a bit at our bookstore, and some at my home (because I can never get any time to finish it. What area do you have in mind? Jon Stephen Beecroft wrote: Anyone here interested in home automation? Anyone do any?

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
John, you seem to have a really blind spot on this issue. This is really not like you - it has given you Alzheimer disease, I think. The video of USB claiming responsibility and talking about the plans ahead of time was played ad nauseum on the TV rag outlets. And while we do have an obligation

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
You weren't attacked by a nation. That's the problem. Paul Osborne wrote: Actually he admitted it on a videotape played on Al-Jezeera television, out of Doha, Qatar, the day after. He'd prepared the video ahead of time, so there's not much doubt. Right. And, I'm in favor of nuclear

Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of malleable truth

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
You sexist pig! That should have been she he Jon Paul Osborne gloatingly wrote: he he / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
And, to add to Marc's comments (don't faint, Marc :-), we would suffer greatly in both the short and the long run were we to so over-react. I believe that sometime soon, someone will use a tactical nuke to take out a carrier battlegroup - they have no other way of doing it. If we were to use

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Strictly speaking, I honestly don't know, because I don't consider evolution to be a moral issue which one is converted to -- it's just a toolset for approaching one question on how the physical world works, like any other theory. You probably suspected I'd respond that way, but it's true. Also,

Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of malleable truth

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Indeed. The article says it may well take a century for the neo-Europe to rise. Jon Spencer wrote: I expect that sometime in the future, sooner or later, the power of the US will dwindle and someone else will rise to preeminence. That will clearly be a hard pill to swallow. But it hasn't

Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Which votes? France and Russia voted in favour of the new US resolution at the Security Council where they, along with the US, hold permanent seats. Jon Spencer wrote: It wouldn't matter if they did - they wouldn't honor them. Especially considering their votes today in the UN. Jon John

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
To be sure, but it seems the videotape was prepared ahead of time and delivered to al-Jazeera on condition they not play it until after the 11th of September, from what I recall. That would at least imply foreknowledge, if not guilt as such. John W. Redelfs wrote: After much pondering, Marc A.

Re: [ZION] scriptures are not secular?

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Although I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your conclusion, the logic begs the question, since it's scripture quoting scripture. If scripture is written in some kind of code, or compacted language, then a quote, reference to allusion to another scripture would follow the same format. Mark

Re:[ZION] Up JWR's way -- the Golden Bough of the Misty Isles

2002-11-08 Thread Val
Marc: I'd most certaily be interested in the article. You may e-mail me a copy if you wish. val -- Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: zion-l [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ZION] Up JWR's way -- the Golden Bough of the Misty Isles

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Here's the latest statement, which is positive neutrality, which is to say, that it's not a matter for the Church to have an opinion on one way or the other (despite what some brethren have written; see my response to John for more information). This is the Encyclopedia of Mormonism article on

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Mark Gregson
I wouldn't suggest this for a beginner, but the best and most up-to-date general actual textbook, meant for university courses, is probably the relatively new, but very long book that Stephen Jay Gould published just before he died, The Structure of Evolutionary Theory. John, you should

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
I'm compiling a long list of books to buy so that when I walk into an LDS bookstore I'm not just going um, um, um. Stacy. At 10:43 AM 11/08/2002 -0700, you wrote: Strictly speaking, I honestly don't know, because I don't consider evolution to be a moral issue which one is converted to -- it's

Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Jon Spencer favored us with: It wouldn't matter if they did - they wouldn't honor them. Especially considering their votes today in the UN. So you are absolutely sure that if we attack Iraq that no other country will get involved against us, is that right? --JWR

Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
Dreamer! Stacy. At 07:43 AM 11/08/2002 -0900, you wrote: After much pondering, Jon Spencer favored us with: It wouldn't matter if they did - they wouldn't honor them. Especially considering their votes today in the UN. So you are absolutely sure that if we attack Iraq that no other

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
If it's so smart, then you won't mind giving it all your money. Obviously it knows what to do with it better than you do. ;-) Paul Osborne wrote: After much pondering, Paul Osborne favored us with: The President of the United States and US intelligence has determined that he is guilty. Case

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Mark Gregson wrote: I wouldn't suggest this for a beginner, but the best and most up-to-date general actual textbook, meant for university courses, is probably the relatively new, but very long book that Stephen Jay Gould published just before he died, The Structure of Evolutionary

RE: [ZION] Home automation

2002-11-08 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Jon- Yep - I have automated quite a bit at our bookstore, and some at my home (because I can never get any time to finish it. What area do you have in mind? Probably my basement family room, to start with. I've been dreaming about home automation for many years, and toying with the idea of

[ZION] Governing the Least

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Jon Spencer favored us with: I know that you are being facetious here, but I truly hope that this is not your dream. If this were to happen, you would lose all of your sacred privileges and rights, and the US would be overtaken by the criminals among us, including those who

Re: [ZION] scriptures are not secular?

2002-11-08 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 09:31 AM 11/8/2002, you wrote: I'm not going to say Yes, of course the actual event happened as described, because it really doesn't matter. If it did, great; if not _so what_. I refuse to The Book of Mormon prophets believed that the water actually parted for the Israelites but then

[ZION] Fwd: Your Consideration.

2002-11-08 Thread Jim Cobabe
Another of these entertaining invitations from Lagos... GREENFIELDS AGRO-ALLIED COMPANY. 10 BROAD STREET, LAGOS-NIGERIA. TEL: 2348023263622 Your Attention: First, I must solicit your strictest understanding in the matter i am about to disclose to you,if the contents of this mail does

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Steven Montgomery
Not only that but what about the innocents who would undoubtedly lose their lives in such an attack? -- Steven Montgomery At 10:09 AM 11/8/2002, you wrote: You weren't attacked by a nation. That's the problem. Paul Osborne wrote: Actually he admitted it on a videotape played on Al-Jezeera

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
I agree, but no matter what we do we will be overrun. I don't know if I agree with the prevailing LDS sentiment that we will prevail, either. I suppose one has to ask what is meant by prevail. If you mean win but only with a tiny fraction of people left, I don't really call that winning.

Re: [ZION] Governing the Least

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
Just what is predicted will happen. We will be overrun and the people that will be left will be in anarchy. Only a relatively few of us (those in the church that are left) will be the ones to save ourselves and the remnant of the people. This is the way I see the prophecies that have been

Re: [ZION] scriptures are not secular?

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
In other words, we should be concentrating on the spirit of revelation, and not on events, which are simply that, events. Steven Montgomery wrote: At 09:31 AM 11/8/2002, you wrote: I'm not going to say Yes, of course the actual event happened as described, because it really doesn't

Re: [ZION] George III continues the tradition of malleable truth

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Indeed. The article says it may well take a century for the neo-Europe to rise. It didn't take that long for the Third Reich. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER:

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: But I hope that you are serious about the challenge of studying the issue of evolution if you honestly expect to come to some kind of real understanding. There is so much material to wade through with so many questions about each fact

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: And finally, if you can hang tight, I might have another resource. I've had the idea for an article accepted by a well-known LDS publication (not Dialogue or Sunstone), and a draft has been submitted. I can't reveal which publication yet

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Mark Gregson favored us with: But I hope that you are serious about the challenge of studying the issue of evolution if you honestly expect to come to some kind of real understanding. There is so much material to wade through with so many questions about each fact that

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Jon Spencer favored us with: I believe that sometime soon, someone will use a tactical nuke to take out a carrier battlegroup - they have no other way of doing it. If we were to use nukes now, then we would create a situation where we had sowed the seeds of our own loss.

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
He did. And I couldn't supply one. It's kind of like saying that the answer to life, the universe and everything is 42. Steven Montgomery wrote: I thought John asked for a single best source on the subject, both pro and con? grin -- Steven Montgomery At 10:43 AM 11/8/2002, you wrote:

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Steven Montgomery
It is! How did you find out? -- Steven Montgomery At 12:31 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote: He did. And I couldn't supply one. It's kind of like saying that the answer to life, the universe and everything is 42. Steven Montgomery wrote: I thought John asked for a single best source on the subject,

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Stacy Smith favored us with: I agree, but no matter what we do we will be overrun. I don't know if I agree with the prevailing LDS sentiment that we will prevail, either. I suppose one has to ask what is meant by prevail. If you mean win but only with a tiny fraction

RE: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Jim Cobabe
It is difficult to find books on evolution that avoid dogmatic approaches. I suspect that most who disagree with the rank and file do so privately. In my experience any lack of enthusiasm for the currently favored doctrine of evolution is met with waves of contempt and derision. If you

Re: [ZION] Home automation

2002-11-08 Thread Dan R Allen
Stephen: Anyone here interested in home automation? Anyone do any? Dan: I've thought of it a few times, but wasn't too impressed with the X-10 architecture when I was more serious about it. Planned on rolling my own, but just haven't had the time.

Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
What do you mean? Did you read what I typed, or are you, too, going blind, like Ryan and myself? I will restate my sentence in different terms for you: It would not matter if Russia and/or China had an existing mutual defense treaty with Iraq [sidebar: the mere thought is extremely funny!].

Re: [ZION] Fwd: Your Consideration.

2002-11-08 Thread Geoff FOWLER
I humbly crave your indulgence?? Geoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11/08/02 12:14PM Another of these entertaining invitations from Lagos... GREENFIELDS AGRO-ALLIED COMPANY. 10 BROAD STREET, LAGOS-NIGERIA. TEL: 2348023263622 Your Attention: First, I must solicit your strictest understanding in

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
I do not believe that you can use the WWII use of nukes as a precedent for any action today, unless we were again at that decision point. It is quite clear that the use of nukes in WWII saved many lives, both Japanese and American. When did we ever issue a real threat to use nukes since WWII?

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Mark Gregson
Actually, contrary to popular misconception he didn't originate the idea, he merely popularized it. It's now considered fairly mainstream, and part of the New Synthesis. I knew he didn't come up with the initial idea when I wrote my previous post but I got lazy. However, I am correct in

Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
Quite a jump there, JWR! You mentioned Russia and China, and I shot them down. That's all. And yes, I am quite certain, especially after today's UN vote, that not a single solitary country will join Iraq against us. That is absolutely correct. Jon John W. Redelfs asked: After much

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
When logic fails, attack! :-) Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: If it's so smart, then you won't mind giving it all your money. Obviously it knows what to do with it better than you do. ;-) Paul Osborne wrote: After much pondering, Paul Osborne favored us with: The President of the United

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
My sentiments exactly. Do you really call that winning, for the few of us that are left? I suppose in some ways it is. At least those of us who are left will deserve to be left. But for a while we will have to go through torment, and don't ask me to look forward to that. Stacy. At 10:41

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Mark Gregson
It is quite clear that the use of nukes in WWII saved many lives, both Japanese and American. I've already explained on this list some years ago that the nukes did not end the war. You can disbelieve it, but it's best not to read what actually happened in Japan if you want to maintain

[ZION] Virtual Personalities?

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
I thought all personalities were real, despite the way they appear on the virtual screen. Stacy. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

Re: [ZION] Governing the Least

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
OK, I'll go with your last statement. But you said you would like to see the destruction of the US capital. That is what I was responding to. If you think that would not be a problem, go live in Saudi Arabia and try to go on an exchange to see some Saudi investigators! Jon John W. Redelfs

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
Collateral damage would take on a whole new meaning! Jon Steven Montgomery wrote: Not only that but what about the innocents who would undoubtedly lose their lives in such an attack? -- Steven Montgomery At 10:09 AM 11/8/2002, you wrote: You weren't attacked by a nation. That's the problem.

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
Well, we know that at one point there will be seven sisters for each brother. So there will be at least 8 people left. But wait! There will be two apostles, which means there must be at least on President, so that's 3 guys plus 21 gals - 28 people. And remember, whoever gives his life for me

Re: [ZION] Governing the Least

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
I do not want to see the U.S. destroyed. I just know that it will be. Since I'd like to spend what remains of my mortal existence in relative comfort, I hope I am dead before much of these events take place. Stacy. At 04:22 PM 11/08/2002 -0500, you wrote: OK, I'll go with your last

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
And we're diggin' as fast as we can, right? :-) Jon John W. Redelfs wrote: We already have the moral low ground. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html

Re: [ZION] Fwd: Your Consideration.

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
I get so many that I would be considered a spam source were I to forward them all. Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: You might want to forward this to the FBI. At least I assume they have a unit covering the Nigerian scam. The Mounties do, and Canadians are encouraged to forward emails, with

Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
Ah, but I would (be so sure of that)! You see, unlike some on this list, I am willing to be led by President Bush. I believe that he is honest and sincere, and that he is no idiot. I don't take everything as gospel, and I don't agree with some of what he wants to do, but he will not lead us

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
If I can't understand how eight people survived after the ark, how will I be able to understand only 28? Suppose some of those 28 are handicapped? Stacy. At 04:27 PM 11/08/2002 -0500, you wrote: Well, we know that at one point there will be seven sisters for each brother. So there will be at

Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
Don't forget that when we started WW II we were pretty much a righteous nation. I frankly don't see how we can really carry on our battles with these people when they aren't any more righteous than the majority of the nation. Stacy. At 04:36 PM 11/08/2002 -0500, you wrote: Ah, but I would

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
Right. Uh huh. Sure. I don't think so. There was no credible threat of the use nukes by the US in the Korean War, and no threat whatsoever, other than accusations of such from the left, during the Gulf War. Jon Mark Gregson wrote: When did we ever issue a real threat to use nukes since

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
The Lord will restore them to perfect bodies if needed. He's a really nice guy, I hear. Or perhaps they will have gifts or powers that renders their disability irrelevant. Jon Stacy Smith wrote: If I can't understand how eight people survived after the ark, how will I be able to understand

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
Yes, but merely in terms of numbers, I guess I was thinking that there wouldn't be too many desirables around to date, etc. How about cooking? We probably would all have to hunt as plant life would not survive nuclear attack. Those were the kinds of things I was thinking about. Or are you

Re: [ZION] scriptures are not secular?

2002-11-08 Thread Dan R Allen
After much pondering, Dan R Allen favored us with: I'm saying that it should not be absolutely _necessary_ for God to have parted the Red Sea, a'la Charlton Heston, to have a testimony that He guided the Israelites across it. The fact that He helped them cross the Red Sea is literal, but the

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Jon Spencer
In one sense -the temporal one - I agree with you. I understand that you are blind. To me, that would be devastating at first. I would hope that I could learn to cope. But I do believe that no matter how hard things were, it would be somehow fulfilling to be a part of the final struggle, so

Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

2002-11-08 Thread Dan R Allen
Jon: Ah, but I would (be so sure of that)! You see, unlike some on this list, I am willing to be led by President Bush. I believe that he is honest and sincere, and that he is no idiot. I don't take everything as gospel, and I don't agree with some of what he wants to do, but he will not

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Dan R Allen
Stacy: Yes, but merely in terms of numbers, I guess I was thinking that there wouldn't be too many desirables around to date, etc. How about cooking? We probably would all have to hunt as plant life would not survive nuclear attack. Those were the kinds of things I was thinking about. Or are

[ZION] Best Books

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
Why do you suppose the Lord repeats himself so many times in commanding us to study words of wisdom out of the best books? Is he referring only to the scriptures? Or does he want us to seek out and read the best books in other fields? If I want to read a biology book, do I want to read a

Re: [ZION] Best Books

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
Thomas S. Monson and Boyd K. Packer. Stacy. At 01:44 PM 11/08/2002 -0900, you wrote: Why do you suppose the Lord repeats himself so many times in commanding us to study words of wisdom out of the best books? Is he referring only to the scriptures? Or does he want us to seek out and read

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
Yes, I've started getting those. Stacy. At 03:26 PM 11/08/2002 -0700, you wrote: Stacy: Yes, but merely in terms of numbers, I guess I was thinking that there wouldn't be too many desirables around to date, etc. How about cooking? We probably would all have to hunt as plant life would not

Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
I'd rather have Hinckley than Bush. Stacy. At 03:23 PM 11/08/2002 -0700, you wrote: Jon: Ah, but I would (be so sure of that)! You see, unlike some on this list, I am willing to be led by President Bush. I believe that he is honest and sincere, and that he is no idiot. I don't take

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Jon Spencer favored us with: There is no other side of the world anymore, or hadn't you noticed. Of course, it is probably easier to get to North Carolina from Baghdad than from where you live, but I digress. :-) This is a cliche. Of course there is an other side of the

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Jon Spencer favored us with: I see nothing in the scriptures which says that we should not preemptively defend ourselves, and ONE HAS A VERY DIFFICULT TIME COMPARING NEPHITES SITUATIONS TO OUR CURRENT SITUATIONS. --- Any thoughts on this statement? --JWR

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Stacy Smith favored us with: Or are you thinking we could have manna again? I guess that's a possibility. I guess I'm saying it wouldn't be a very desirable world. Maybe radioactive ravens could bring you morsels. --JWR

Re: [ZION] Governing the Least

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Stacy Smith favored us with: I do not want to see the U.S. destroyed. I just know that it will be. Since I'd like to spend what remains of my mortal existence in relative comfort, I hope I am dead before much of these events take place. I'm an adventurer. I want to

Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Jon Spencer favored us with: Quite a jump there, JWR! You mentioned Russia and China, and I shot them down. That's all. And yes, I am quite certain, especially after today's UN vote, that not a single solitary country will join Iraq against us. You have no idea how that

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
By reading one book. No. Waidaminute. It was a trilogy. 4 books. Yeah, that's it Incidentally, I'm introducing a whole new generation to the wonders of Douglas Adams -- I've got a big, storybook edition of the trilogy to give my son for Christmas. Steven Montgomery wrote: It is! How did

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
John, I don't mean to over-complicate your task, but just by coincidence, someone posted the following statement by the AAAS (who put out Science, the US competitor of Nature), on Eyring-L just within the past hour. It's a statement against intelligent design:

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
There is what I generally call the Covenant of Ether, that I think John's talking about here. It doesn't just apply to the U.S., imo, but to all countries of the new world (in fact, Pres. Kimball likened Zion to an eagle, with two wings, one south and one north). Look at all the countries of this

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
Ouch! If they were radioactive do you think I'd want that? Unless the Lord intends everything that's brought by them to all of a sudden become free of radiation. That may be a bigger miracle than any prophet has ever seen happen. Stacy. At 02:11 PM 11/08/2002 -0900, you wrote: After much

[ZION] Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Stacy Smith favored us with: Going through this world as blind is challenge enough. Going through the same after nuclear attack I cannot fathom. I cannot but think that the organizational prowess of the Church would become even more obvious after any nuclear attack. Who

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Stacy Smith
Try buying one of those military special gliders that one runs on one's back or whatever. Stacy. At 01:55 PM 11/08/2002 -0900, you wrote: After much pondering, Jon Spencer favored us with: There is no other side of the world anymore, or hadn't you noticed. Of course, it is probably easier to

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Jon Spencer wrote: I do not believe that you can use the WWII use of nukes as a precedent for any action today, unless we were again at that decision point. It is quite clear that the use of nukes in WWII saved many lives, both Japanese and American. When did we ever issue a real threat

[ZION] Saint Sans

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
As I write this I am listening to the Carnival of the Animals by Saint Sans. I have heard it many times. But for the first time I have noticed the part for the elephant. What a marvelous showcase for the double bass! Are there others among you that are familiar with this work? My two

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: I'm cc'ing Justin Hart on this, so if you want to get in touch with him for more resources on ID, I'm sure he'd be glad to help. I'm going to do a little survey reading first, then maybe I'll have you put me in touch with him. I'm so

Re: [ZION] Governing the Least

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Stacy Smith favored us with: I don't necessarily feel unrighteous for not wanting to see it all. As I recall, not all of the disciples wanted to tarry until the Lord comes either. I don't think you are unrighteous for your desire. It is more prudent. I am just a more

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Mark Gregson
Right. Uh huh. Sure. I don't think so. There was no credible threat of the use nukes by the US in the Korean War, and no threat whatsoever, other than accusations of such from the left, during the Gulf War. I heard President George Bush state at the beginning of the Gulf War that the

Re: [ZION] War Against All of Islam

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Jon Spencer wrote: Quite a jump there, JWR! You mentioned Russia and China, and I shot them down. That's all. And yes, I am quite certain, especially after today's UN vote, that not a single solitary country will join Iraq against us. That is absolutely correct. I don't think that

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
...with sarcasm. Not to be taken seriously. Jon Spencer wrote: When logic fails, attack! :-) Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: If it's so smart, then you won't mind giving it all your money. Obviously it knows what to do with it better than you do. ;-) Paul Osborne wrote: After much

Re: [ZION] Best Arguments on Evolution

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
You're straining at a camel here. And quoting out of context. I would encourage people to read the first link, which is a detailed obituary of Gould. It shows the opposite of what you contend: he challenged the mainstream, but his ideas are now part of the New Synthesis. Here's another quote

Re: [ZION] Taliban in Pakistan

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Mark Gregson wrote: It is quite clear that the use of nukes in WWII saved many lives, both Japanese and American. I've already explained on this list some years ago that the nukes did not end the war. You can disbelieve it, but it's best not to read what actually happened in Japan

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