Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I don't think it matters (to me, anyway) whether it was deliberate or not. The people in central and SW Afghanistan in particular have little choice, as there is no economic alternative for them. One could just as easily say this is the free market at work without the help of the CIA. I *do*

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
There's an interesting matter of interpretation here. Is while a conditional term here, or is it merely setting up the other party's side of the covenant? And if one party breaks the covenant, is the other party free to break it as well? John W. Redelfs wrote: Jim Cobabe favored us with:

Re: [ZION] Iran's Nukes

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Jim Cobabe wrote: I was interested to learn that the Russians are now selling nuclear technological knowhow. What a refreshing change for the world to buy their nuclear plants from the Russians, instead of from the Canadians, or the PRC. Perhaps the Russian bid was cheaper. ;- This

Re: [ZION] The latest from Iraq

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
This just isn't true, I'm afraid. They were *delivered* to the Security Council, but the US still managed to get first crack at them. An excerpt from the US State Dept. briefing: Reeker, the spokesman for the State Department, on 10/12/02: The U.S. government has made copies of the Iraqi weapons

Re: [ZION] How Greek Philosophy Corrupted the Christian Concept of God

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Well, I've been working on it tonight/this morning because I have insomnia (how's that for a spiritual motivator?) I got about halfway through and found a couple of embarrassing typos along with the rest of the formatting (don't use Netscape Composer on Word docs, at least, not Netscape 4.72).

Re: [ZION] Re: New guy

2002-12-17 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 14:54 12/16/2002 -0700, Gib Egroeg wrote: George has to be better looking, because Jim is definitely smarter. But to tell you the truth if you have seen one Cobabe you will recognize the rest. Just happy to be here and living off what I suspect is the good name of good o'cousin Jim.

Re: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
Jim and I share a grandfather. His dad, Bill is brother to my dad, George. We are currently in the habit of getting together once a year with our Cobabe Cousins whom we correspond with on a CobabeCousins email list owned by Jim. We have a lot of cousins and if anyone should ever run into a

Re: [ZION] heck ain't cussin

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
I was trying to suggest that the doctrine of trinity, with its idea of a universal constant referred to as God and manifest as the three personages, is based on a true LDS doctrine of a manifestation of a constant standard of what is a God in infinite forms of exalted Gods. Not that the defective

RE: [ZION] Banning motorcycles

2002-12-17 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 03:14 12/17/2002 +, Sir Chester wrote: I was zipping along a Missouri road back in 1975 and fell off my motorcycle. Luckily, my fall was broken by my face on the pavement or I could've hurt myself. So it's not motorcycles which are dangerous. It's roads. Or faces. Even Till has

Re: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-17 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 21:16 12/16/2002 -0600, St Paul not Minnesota wrote: I've only been here a couple years and they haven't thrown me out yet. grin Notice carefully the yet 8)) Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at

Re: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
I was trying not to let it happen, but I think you topped everyone and surely had the last word on this. George - Original Message - From: Stephen Beecroft [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:47 PM Subject: RE: [ZION] New guy -George- Could

Re: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
Boy - you lost me there - are you asking about abilities (to argue) or the size of bullets (so as to end the argument)? George - Original Message - From: Rick Mathis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] New guy At 09:16 PM

Re: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-17 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 05:43 12/17/2002 -0700, Gib Egroeg wrote: I was trying not to let it happen, but I think you topped everyone and surely had the last word on this. George - Original Message - From: Stephen Beecroft [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:47 PM

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-17 Thread Jon Spencer
I get three A's. We have been given intellectual gifts to employ. The word employ here is very important, for it means that we must work at figuring things out, at overcoming our natural man instincts. We may be of the fold, but we are not sheep. In determining the ability of a country's

Re: [ZION] Iran's Nukes

2002-12-17 Thread Jon Spencer
Jim the Babe wrote: John W. Redelfs wrote: --- I have some anxiety that we may soon find out who has and does not have nukes. --- There were some misleading news reports on this, I think. In the headlines last Friday. Those rotten news guys, they're always trying to increase John's

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

2002-12-17 Thread Jon Spencer
I have come to the conclusion that Marc was cheated by the Pakistani owner of a convenience store in his neck of the woods! :-) Marc, while I agree that Pakistan is not the country to model our society after and that there are many distinct factions operating within the government, often at odds

Re: [ZION] Just finished reading....

2002-12-17 Thread Scott McGee
Shortly after we moved into our new home a year and a half ago, Dish Network had a deal where you paid $199 for the dish and receiver, and got basic 100 channel programming for $19/month for a year. This was a good deal, and we took them up on it. This last summer, the price per month went up.

RE: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

2002-12-17 Thread Jim Cobabe
Jon Spencer wrote: --- I have come to the conclusion that Marc was cheated by the Pakistani owner of a convenience store in his neck of the woods! :-) --- Sounds like a Simpsons episode. Come to think of it, perhaps we could draw some interesting and instructive parallels between Homer and

Re: [ZION] NOMA: A Contrarian view

2002-12-17 Thread Mark Gregson
NOMA is also very similar to what the 1P said in 1931 in the last official statement on the origin of man: leave science to the scientists and religion to the Brethren. So be careful of criticizing it just because it was written by an agnostic. This is probably not the time to try this

Re: [ZION] LOTR

2002-12-17 Thread Mark Gregson
Spoiler warning Gary: Actually, his friend was Shelob the spider. I wouldn't call Shelob his friend. More like his master. Gary: Actually, there are three known. The Steward of Gondor also has one, which falls into the plot of the ensuing movies. Are

Re: [ZION] NOMA: A Contrarian view

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
Mark - I tried it as well on another list - it will not work. Your concept makes too much sense for someone imbued with science to accept. George - Original Message - From: Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [ZION]

RE: [ZION] New Main Street Plaza proposal

2002-12-17 Thread Chet
John W. Redelfs wrote: Where are you Orrin Porter Rockwell, now that we need you? --JWR There's a one-panel cartoon which sums up my weaknesses. A fellow is saying I thought - what would Jesus do? And I tried to forgive him. Then I thought - what would Porter Rockwell do? And I punched

Re: [ZION] Just finished reading....

2002-12-17 Thread Stacy Smith
Any way to get Utah by sound only cheaper? I'm trying to find out the cheapest way to do it. Stacy. At 11:21 AM 12/17/2002 -0400, you wrote: Shortly after we moved into our new home a year and a half ago, Dish Network had a deal where you paid $199 for the dish and receiver, and got basic 100

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

2002-12-17 Thread Stacy Smith
You should have said we are between Iraq and a hard place. Lol. Stacy. At 10:15 AM 12/17/2002 -0500, you wrote: I have come to the conclusion that Marc was cheated by the Pakistani owner of a convenience store in his neck of the woods! :-) Marc, while I agree that Pakistan is not the

RE: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-17 Thread Chet
Stacy Smith wrote: Yes, I like those funny jokes too. As opposed to the jokes I usually tell. *jeep! --Chet Start by doing what's necessary, then what's possible, and suddenly you are doing the impossible. //

RE: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-17 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 17:53 12/17/2002 +, Sir Chester wrote: You proceed from a false assumption. A football doesn't HAVE feathers. Certainly not in the same respect that horses and gophers do. Till who used to hate gopher feathers in his orange juice when he was a little tyke

RE: [ZION] New Main Street Plaza proposal

2002-12-17 Thread Chet
Stacy Smith wrote: Can I call from out of state? I did. The human answering the line after you press 2 (they were getting more calls than their computer could handle, I guess) did ask me if I was calling from out of state - and from where. *jeep! --Chet Start by doing what's necessary,

RE: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-17 Thread Chet
Stacy Smith wrote: Luckily even the other list I'm on doesn't have this guy. Not yet, anyway. Can a person really protect herself on the internet? An ex-boyfriend even found me on a certain list. I'm beginning to think that if I don't want to be found by certain people I shouldn't be

Re: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-17 Thread Stacy Smith
That's probably a very good guy and not the one I'm referring to. I know of two Wrights, one I would love to see again and one I wish to forget. Stacy. At 09:41 AM 12/17/2002 -0500, you wrote: We have a Brother Wright in our ward. He is a Special Forces sniper. Could he help out here? Jon

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-17 Thread Stacy Smith
A very interesting point worth considering. We're also sending them out as well. Stacy. At 09:34 AM 12/17/2002 -0500, you wrote: I get three A's. We have been given intellectual gifts to employ. The word employ here is very important, for it means that we must work at figuring things out,

Re: [ZION] trinitarianism

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
No, you'll have the content -- it's just the endnotes and some of the formatting that's messed up. Also, I spelled homoousis and homoiousis the same in Greek; the latter should have an iota between the two omicrons. Minor stuff like that. Jon Spencer wrote: Bummer! I just printed it off to

[ZION] No biological basis for race

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
A new study of Brazilians confirms what biologists have always known (but maybe not anthropologists?): namely, that there is no genetic basis for determining race:

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Jon Spencer wrote: I have come to the conclusion that Marc was cheated by the Pakistani owner of a convenience store in his neck of the woods! :-) Marc, while I agree that Pakistan is not the country to model our society after and that there are many distinct factions operating within the

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Doh! The character you're thinking of isn't Pakistani. He can't be, since he's Hindu. Ya can't hit the targets if ya can't see 'em Jim Cobabe wrote: Jon Spencer wrote: --- I have come to the conclusion that Marc was cheated by the Pakistani owner of a convenience store in his neck of

Re: [ZION] NOMA: A Contrarian view

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Mark Gregson wrote: NOMA is also very similar to what the 1P said in 1931 in the last official statement on the origin of man: leave science to the scientists and religion to the Brethren. So be careful of criticizing it just because it was written by an agnostic. This is probably

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
The joke going around during Gulf War I, if I can call it that, was: what movie has been banned by Saddam Hussein? Iraqnophobia, of course. (Arachnophobia, a horror flick involving spiders, was in the movie theatres about that time). Stacy Smith wrote: You should have said we are between Iraq

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

2002-12-17 Thread John W. Redelfs
Jon Spencer favored us with: First off, this probably belongs on lds-poll. And second, if you can even seriously entertain such ideas, it either says a Lott about you or a Lott about the country. Of course, it could be that my not being able to SERIOUSLY entertain such ideas may say a Lott

Re: [ZION] heck ain't cussin

2002-12-17 Thread John W. Redelfs
George Cobabe favored us with: The problem is that the doctrine of the trinity is so convoluted we cannot if discuss it without being subject to the same requirements of confusion and misunderstanding. Not much simpler is it? I think I got it the second time around. Still, conceptually it is

RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-17 Thread John W. Redelfs
Stacy Smith favored us with: What's this other list and why not have the same screening questionnaire? The Moroni list is for Birchers and the like. I had to set it up to keep from driving most of my best contributors from this list. --JWR

RE: [ZION] Banning motorcycles

2002-12-17 Thread John W. Redelfs
Elmer L. Fairbank favored us with: Even Till has taken a tumble once, from a Norton. There was this rock in the road which he smuck amidships at 60. The rest is subject to some pretty vivid imagining. HE thinks rocks are dangerous (not to mention young men). Three times in my life I've

[ZION] Tobacco interests lose a big one in Canada; LDS involvement

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Forwarded with permission from Ken Kyle, who is LDS and works at the Canadian Cancer Society, as director of public issues. The first item is a recent newspaper article, the second some background from Ken on his involvement with this. The Church News has been in contact with him about possibly

RE: [ZION] Just finished reading....

2002-12-17 Thread Larry Jackson
Stacy Smith: Any way to get Utah by sound only cheaper? I'm trying to find out the cheapest way to do it. ___ Try www.kbyu.org -- I think they have an audio feed you could listen to on your pc, if you really wanted to do that. Many other radio stations in Utah also have

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
Marc, rather than start another political yelling match with you about the USA and our policies, I will just say you are all screwed up and let it go at that. I am reminded of the old story of the Stallion and the horse fly. The fly kept biting the horse but when it was all over the fly was

Re: [ZION] The Laughing Savior

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I think we can assume so, but indirectly -- by the references to criticisms of him by the Pharisees, for hanging out with winebibbers, publicans and other sinners. I don't imagine such meals were always sombre ;-) John W. Redelfs wrote: Did the Savior ever crack jokes like President Hinckley?

RE: [ZION] No biological basis for race

2002-12-17 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Marc- A new study of Brazilians confirms what biologists have always known (but maybe not anthropologists?): namely, that there is no genetic basis for determining race:

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
Marc suggests: If one feels the specific events of the American Revolution were inspired, one would also have to believe that the French Revolution was inspired, since it laid the groundwork for the American Revolution, and the intellectuals behind the liberalism (in the traditional sense of the

Re: [ZION] No biological basis for race

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Marc- A new study of Brazilians confirms what biologists have always known (but maybe not anthropologists?): namely, that there is no genetic basis for determining race:

[ZION] A voice of moderation: The language of Islam has been hijacked

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Interesting, and welcome, note of moderation from Ms. Sheena Khan, the head of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, Canada. http://www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/PEstory/TGAM/20021217/COSHEEMA/Comment/comment/commentColumnistsHeadline_temp/4/4/6/ -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
slapping forehead You're right. Sorry -- I just got my history mixed up. I guess I must have been thinking of French intellectual influence that preceded the revolution (ie de Tocqueville, not to mention Lafayette's military assistance). George Cobabe wrote: Marc suggests: If one feels the

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

2002-12-17 Thread Jon Spencer
Jim Cobabe wrote: Jon Spencer wrote: --- I have come to the conclusion that Marc was cheated by the Pakistani owner of a convenience store in his neck of the woods! :-) --- Sounds like a Simpsons episode. Actually, teh convenience store owner in the Simpsons is an Indian, but they sort

Re: [ZION] LOTR

2002-12-17 Thread Jon Spencer
Only 5 hours until LOTR II starts. Who already has their tickets? Jon Larry Jackson wrote: Gary Smith: Hm. First Tom Matkin claims to dislike LOTR, ... ___ There must be a disconnect somewhere. I know that Tom has a keen sense of humor, and I'm sure he enjoys

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
More to the point, he's a *Hindu* Indian, as you can tell both from his name and from the way his wife dresses (there was an episode when his family and the Simpsons had dinner together). Pakistan and Bangladesh were both intended to be part of India when India was given its independence, but Ali

Re: [ZION] LOTR

2002-12-17 Thread Valerie Nielsen Williams
I do! My sons and I have a date -- I told my students today that I wouldn't be there tomorrow because we had an appointment that would take about 3 hours. . .they never figured it out ;-) val On Tue, 17 Dec 2002 19:00:54 -0500 Jon Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Only 5 hours until LOTR II

RE: [ZION] The latest from Iraq

2002-12-17 Thread larry . jackson
Marc Schindler: This just isn't true, I'm afraid. They were *delivered* to the Security Council, but the US still managed to get first crack at them. An excerpt from the US State Dept. briefing: ... ___ This just is true, I'm afraid. And your excerpt begins by saying just what

RE: [ZION] Tobacco interests lose a big one in Canada; LDS involvement

2002-12-17 Thread Chet
Marc A. Schindler wrote a lotta stuff I'm not even gonna try to keep up with. Mainly, it said that tobacco companies are getting beat on in Canada. I hope so. I really hope so. Because in this country, the tobacco companies are being beaten on by being sued. They raise their prices, so

[ZION] Tom Murphy

2002-12-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
For those of you who are following the Tom Murphy affair (aka DNA and the Lamanites), you might be interested to know that Jeff Lindsay has recently updated his apologetics page on the topic: http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/DNA.shtml It's not written for a professional geneticist (which is not