RE: [ZION] Subject to natural law

2002-12-19 Thread John W. Redelfs
Jim Cobabe favored us with: He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

RE: [ZION] Natural Law

2002-12-19 Thread John W. Redelfs
Stephen Beecroft favored us with: He's also the teacher who effectively pointed out that we do indeed believe in salvation by grace, despite what many Latter-day Saints mistakenly believe and even teach. Of course we believe in salvation by grace. The Protestant heresy that we repudiate is

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

2002-12-19 Thread George Cobabe
Redelfs' Commentary: God became God by obedience to pre-existing, coeternal law. And if we are to become Gods we must follow the same path that he took. The idea that God made up the laws by which he became God is a Protestant idea. It is not the gospel. I do not believe that anyone is

Re: [ZION] Natural Law

2002-12-19 Thread George Cobabe
Opps, I meant to say: Those who argue there is a Law *above* our God need ... George - Original Message - From: George Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 6:38 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Natural Law Furthermore, if Natural Law is the great

[ZION] BYU bars use of R-rated movies

2002-12-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
Deseret News, Wednesday, December 18, 2002 By Jeffrey P. Haney Deseret News staff writer PROVO — Brigham Young University has raised the red flag on the use of real-to-life Hollywood flicks to illustrate historical events. Professors at BYU this semester started following a policy that

RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-19 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 02:05 12/19/2002 +, St Stephen wrote: Probably so. I would weep for your pitiful, ignorant state, but you're above my visual range. Hey wait, those are my lines. John, Stephen's stealing my schtick. Can't you make him play nice? Till the crushed

Re: [ZION] World's Tallest Buildings

2002-12-19 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 17:30 12/18/2002 -0900, BLT wrote: I think it is hubris to imagine we should build towers still taller than the WTC. Sure they can build them, but the experience with the WTC proves that someone else can knock them down. What is the point? Why make buildings a tempting target

RE: [ZION] Subject to natural law

2002-12-19 Thread Tom Matkin
Mij wrote: The idea, as Joseph Smith might say, feels good to me. Didn't Joseph talk about how truth tasted good to him? That was provocative enough for me to remember it. Maybe he said feels good too. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six 1843-44, p.354 Quote (emphasis

[ZION] Missile defense

2002-12-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
The US will build the first stages of a missile defense system in Alaska over the next couple of years. Ideally the system will evolve into technology that will prevent offensive ICBMs from attacking North America. Countries that were vying to enter the ICBM game have cause for

RE: [ZION] Subject to natural law

2002-12-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
Tom Matkin wrote: --- Didn't Joseph talk about how truth tasted good to him? That was provocative enough for me to remember it. Maybe he said feels good too. --- In Lehi's Tree of Life vision he declares that the fruit of the tree is most desirable and sweet. Alma's discourse on faith (Alma

Re: [ZION] The latest from Iraq

2002-12-19 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Alright. Let's start over. What exactly in the US State Dept. press release leads you to a conclusion other than the US got the documents first, when that is explicitly pointed out in the government's own press briefing? If you feel I've ignored a question you've raised, please remind me what it

Re: [ZION] Microsoft interview questions

2002-12-19 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I knew it was familiar for some reason, although I can't say I'd ever heard of it being used in place of or with cocoa (but it does explain one thing I remember: cans labelled Karob in German supermarkets next to the coffee and tea). And I'm sorry, I've already forgotten who it was who posted the

[ZION] The Gospel and National Security

2002-12-19 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I just heard something from Steve Hildreth, a defence analyst with the US federal government, that I thought I should pass on in case any are interested. BYU is sponsoring a symposium in Washington in the Spring of '03 on The Gospel and National Security. Steve wrote an article critical of the

RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-19 Thread Mark Gregson
Probably so. I would weep for your pitiful, ignorant state, but you're above my visual range. Hey wait, those are my lines. John, Stephen's stealing my schtick. Can't you make him play nice? Doggone it, would you folks just hold your horses please. Don't make me come down

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

2002-12-19 Thread Paul Osborne
Redelfs' Commentary: God became God by obedience to pre-existing, coeternal law. And if we are to become Gods we must follow the same path that he took. The idea that God made up the laws by which he became God is a Protestant idea. It is not the gospel. Amen! I can see that John has it

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-19 Thread Paul Osborne
Amen! John, you and I see this thing eye to eye and agree. Isn't it great? ;-) Paul O On Wed, 18 Dec 2002 23:27:04 -0900 John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] God cannot sin. If he did, he would cease to be God. He cannot create something out of nothing. He cannot annihilate something in

RE: [ZION] Subject to natural law

2002-12-19 Thread Jim Cobabe
Paul Osborne wrote: --- Not so. When God lays his hands upon my head and ordains me God Almighty there will be nothing that I don't know. The learning process will have ended. --- Yes, and I certainly hope you will have completed your homework by then! :-) --- Mij Ebaboc

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-19 Thread Jon Spencer
God cannot rob justice to pay mercy. How's that? And I'm not trying to be cute (only my wife sometimes makes the mistake of thinking that I can be). I believe that there are laws that God must follow or He ceases to be God. Jon Stephen Beecroft wrote: I would be surprised if any man or

[ZION] Where do old hippies go?

2002-12-19 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I thought this one was good for a chuckle... http://www.globeandmail.ca/series/cartoon/19thuedcar.html -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland “Knowledge may give weight, but accomplishments give lustre, and many more people see than weigh.” – Lord

RE: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-19 Thread Chet
Stephen Beecroft wrote: I would be surprised if any man or woman can name something that God cannot do, whether because of the limitations of natural law or anything else, that doesn't fall into this class of false-by-definition. He cannot lie. He cannot disobey any of his own

Re: Re:[ZION] BYU bars use of R-rated movies

2002-12-19 Thread Jon Spencer
You can fix these movies with ClearPlay.com. I use it to watch The Patriot and Black Hawk Down. it makes them somewhere between G and PG. Jon - Original Message - From: Val [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 10:38 AM Subject: Re:[ZION] BYU bars

[ZION] Where can the dead go; was Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-19 Thread Jon Spencer
Marc A. Schindler wrote: And this part I would agree with without hesitation. In Jefferson's numerous letters on the matter, including his famous (or infamous, depending on your pov) letter regarding the curtain between church and state, it seems like he was acting as much out of disgust with

RE: [ZION] Dr Red Green was right all along

2002-12-19 Thread Chet
Marc A. Schindler wrote: Duct tape really is good for you... http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?id={C5BC794A-4AC7-4177-93A3-31E9EA95D88E} The link has changed to http://www.nationalpost.com/search/site/story.asp?id=C5BC794A-4AC7-4177-93A3-31E9EA95D88E It may have changed again

Re: [ZION] BYU bars use of R-rated movies

2002-12-19 Thread Jon Spencer
And we have found some in our stake. When they are discovered, they are gone. Now! One nice feature of being a Stake Seminary Supervisor. Noj Jim the Babe wrote: You might be surprised to learn the sentiments of a number of BYU professors. Some of them will simply not tolerate the Church

[ZION] Warning: this post is full of tangents,irrelevancies and sidetracking.

2002-12-19 Thread Marc A. Schindler
To start, here's a letter in today's Glock 'n' Spiel (Globe and Mail). Try to ignore the writer's barbed reference to Americans. It's not only part of the cultural wallpaper here, but he's exaggerating to make a point, and I think the point's worth the exaggeration. Not so bad after all By

[ZION] The Tom Murphy Affair (FAIR Journal, December 2002)

2002-12-19 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I don't know how many of you subscribe to FAIR's free internet monthly newsletter, or even care about the issues it addresses, but here's their December 2002 newsletter. There's a link in there to an excellent article that addresses the Tom Murphy affair. Mr. Murphy has been portrayed as an