Once again Paul, you find it easy to throw out accusations but are unable to
back your words up. I am not trying to get you going about anything. The
discussion was in regard to FAIR and what they had to say. You have been
unwilling to come up with anything to back up your statements.
An
You might think of how Lamanites were described in the BofM. It was not
based on race or lineage, rather on the state of righteousness. The
membership of the group was constantly changing from one time to another.
We recognize in the church the principle of adoption. We give the blessing
and
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 22:13:22 -0600 George Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Paul, you should know that the FAIR message boards are not the FAIR
members,
but rather visitors who post what they want. If that is the best
you can
do - accuse FAIR of being responsible for everything on the
At 07:14 AM 8/11/2003, you wrote:
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 05:59:17 -0600 George Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more on this issue you might want to check out fairlds.com.
This is a
group of LDS apologists that are tracking the issue.
Yeah, and this lousy board just excommunicated me for making
Dear John wrote:
(my comments inserted)
- Original Message -
From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [ZION] Bankruptcy and LDS
Jim Cobabe wrote:
The liberal perspective examined...
At 08:58 PM 8/11/2003 -0400, Grampa Bill wrote:
Paul Osborne wrote:
I'm brutally honest just like JR is but with less tact.
Grampa Bill asks:
Less tact than JR?
Hard to believe! :-)
Till says: Hard to conceive!
Right, that makes more sense. One is the process of melting metal from
ore and working the metal, the other is more, uh, well, melting metal
from ore, and, hmm, working the metal.
Maybe that doesn't make much sense after all.
Scott
George Cobabe wrote:
I think that there is a difference
Why should those who follow God in this age or era expect a test which is
different from that faced by people who follow God in any other age or era,
if that is what you are saying? Most people do not have an opportunity to
do great and special things for which their names will go down in
On Sat, 09 Aug 2003 17:36:49 -0800 John W. Redelfs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I found the article very frustrating. After reading the first half
of it,
I discovered that the second half was off the right side of my
screen with
no way to access it.
Let's see. The Brethren ask us to:
Welcome back, Rusty! I'm sure that teaching seminary for 4 years was an
amazing experience. It's good to see you on this list again.
Heidi the fair
**
For those of you who are long-time Zion members, you may remember me -
Rusty Taylor. I've been on John's lists off and on
No, I do not. The idea that the DNA from a small group of about 20-30
people in the Lehi party would have a significant impact on the populations
already in the Americas is hard to accept and understand.
If you can somehow show what kind of DNA you are looking for you will
already be way ahead
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 09:58:46 -0600 Steven Montgomery
Who is claiming that Jesus was black? Ideas like this is why I tend
to
steer away from FAIR--in my experience I've found them to be a bunch
of
wannabe scholars but lacking in far too many areas.
It was an anti who posted the link
Kent Francis writes:
If we look at the Bible as history, the distances involved are less than 500
miles by 100 miles and the area was inhabited by Phoenesian, Philistines,
Syrians, Egyptians and other peoples in addition to the Israelites... who
were at various times in their history
You know, it's interesting you mention the KKK. I was thinking of them
when I wrote the part about Laws. The Grand Dragon Wizard, or whatever
the big conehead is called, lives not 5 miles from where I live. The
first weekend in August, they hold their White Pride Festival. This
year, they had
I've been reading THE STORY OF THE LATTER-DAY SAINTS by James B. Allen and
Glen M. Leonard, and I just read the part where the saints were forced to
leave Nauvoo in February, 1846, months before their planned departure in
April. I was especially moved by the story of the saints who were too
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 07:39:36 -0800 John W. Redelfs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I doubt if you will get banned on this list, Paul. We are not PC.
Of
course, if you really tried --JWR
Thanks JR, as I do try to be extra good around here. I do have to say
though that I almost cried when I found
Could these have been the Jaredites, Paul? Apparently they date back much
further than the Olmec. What are the dates for the Tower of Babel
anyway? --JWR
--- Newsweek Story ---
New World Pyramids; By Sharon Begley With Joseph Contreras in Lima
Paul Osborne wrote:
I'm brutally honest just like JR is but with less tact.
Grampa Bill asks:
Less tact than JR?
Hard to believe! :-)
Love y'all,
Grampa Bill in Savannah
//
/// ZION LIST
It would be nice to have a repentance behavior; after all, there is for the
church. Why not Fair?
Stacy.
At 01:23 PM 08/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:
George Cobabe wrote:
I do not believe that anyone on FAIR would make such a claim. Paul O. was
not speaking of that group of people when he
http://www.geotimes.org/aug03/resources.html
I found an article on mining and metallurgy in ancient America, mostly in
NW South America. I have heard some object to the Book of Mormon on
grounds that there has been no evidence of a metal working culture in
American archaeology. Apparently
I didn't see the marriage thing as anything but that--but I'm not into
conspiracy as many on this list are ;-).
I was actually proud of little Dubyah that he had the guts to stand up
for something like marriage.
For me, I am glad to have heard the words, marriage is sacred spoken by
the
George Cobabe wrote:
That may be Bill, but ZION was supposed to be discontinued in favor of
MormonThinkers sometime ago, or so I understood. Obviously it did not
completely happen.
Huh? I don't understand this at all. Zion and Mormon Thinkers are two
completely different lists. --JWR
The liberal perspective examined...
http://www.slweekly.com/editorial/2003/feat_2003-07-31.cfm
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:58:43 -0400 Grampa Bill in Savannah
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Paul Osborne wrote:
I'm brutally honest just like JR is but with less tact.
Grampa Bill asks:
Less tact than JR?
Hard to believe! :-)
Love y'all,
Grampa Bill in
George Cobabe wrote of FAIR:
It is without a doubt the best group and list that I have been lucky enough to associate with.
=
Gramp Bill comments:
Well, hrumph! What are we... chopped liver? Tried a lot of 'em.
Zion's the best!
Love y'all
Grampa Bill in Savannah
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:13:35 -0600 George Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Paul: You have such a tendency to throw things around. Could you
provide a
reference for anyone who believes about Deer and Wooden swords?
Hopefully a
url!!!
Go to the FAIR message board. I can hardly believe
While the statement quoted is the problem it is never the less the fact that
for many, many years the idea of other peoples being there first has been a
part of the belief of many people.
A careful reading of 1st Nephi would lead you to believe that they were
interacting with native people from
Whoops, I am confused about some of the changes and going from one list to
another some time ago.
Please disregard what I said, I was wrong.
George
- Original Message -
From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 12:26 PM
Subject: Re:
In the first place, if they ever let me on again I would probably want to
only receive mail and not send it unless I wrote the owner and asked if I
could ask a question on this or that point. That way the emphasis wuld be
on learning rather than socializing at all.
Stacy.
At 09:33 PM
Well let me try it again. When you work gold you do not change the
chemical composition of the original metal - all you do is purify the
material and make of it what you want.
When you make steel you change the compostion of several metals and other
ingredients and make a new metal. It is a
I am sure that if one wished to repent of their unacceptable behaviour they
would be welcome.
It is not the place, however, for political discussion. It is a very
specialiazed list and interchange. Not much chit chat or arguing.
It is without a doubt the best group and list that I have been
http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2003/08/06/local.20030806-sbt-MIC
H-D6-Church_members_burn_.sto
This link should take you to a story in our Tribune today about a group
called Jesus Non-denomination Church that held a book burning. They
burned Harry Potter, the Book of Mormon and other
Paul Osborne wrote:
Yeah, and this lousy board just excommunicated me for making statements
about physiological differences of African lips and that Jesus could not
have been black because of the seed of Cain. This world is getting so PC,
I can hardly stand to live in it anymore.
Also, I find the
Valerie Nielsen Williams wrote:
For me, I am glad to have heard the words, marriage is sacred spoken by
the leader of our country (I wondered at that moment if he hadn't just
gotten off the phone with Pres. Hinckley!).
I agree that President Bush is either the most righteous man we have had
for
Larry Jackson wrote:
George Cobabe wrote:
ZION was supposed to be discontinued in favor of
MormonThinkers sometime ago, or so I understood.
Obviously it did not completely happen.
___
This is news to me. Never heard of a list called
MormonThinkers. John?
Larry Jackson
I heard of
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:57:23 GMT Larry Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
This is news to me. Never heard of a list called
MormonThinkers.
Neither have I. Though I could think of a list or two which could be
called MormonStinkers.
*jeep!
--Chet
Start by doing what's necessary, then
George Cobabe wrote:
I do not believe that anyone on FAIR would make such a claim. Paul O. was
not speaking of that group of people when he expressed his concern.
I am sorry that you have found them lacking in so many areas, but I do not
think any of them would claim to be entirely proficent in
I do not believe that anyone on FAIR would make such a claim. Paul O. was
not speaking of that group of people when he expressed his concern.
I am sorry that you have found them lacking in so many areas, but I do not
think any of them would claim to be entirely proficent in any area, let
alone
Well they did not kick me for suggesting a minor point of doctrine that
differed from many peoples beliefs. That is not very thin skinned, at least
not as much as some.
George
- Original Message -
From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 11,
Paul: You have such a tendency to throw things around. Could you provide a
reference for anyone who believes about Deer and Wooden swords? Hopefully a
url!!!
George
- Original Message -
From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 6:11 PM
I had to read this over a couple of times, and then ponder what this
writer said before I could respond.
My conclusion is that the writer is using flawed logic to make his case.
He seems to be saying that we as LDS spend foolishly as long as we pay
our tithing because we believe we will be
I'll bet that Saints living in the areas affected by this huge power outage are either
wishing that they were prepared to deal with something of this nature or thankful that
they are indeed prepared. I know that my in-laws, who live in between Ottawa and
Toronto, are indeed prepared and
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:34:15 -0600 George Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Once again Paul, you find it easy to throw out accusations but are
unable to
back your words up. I am not trying to get you going about
anything. The
discussion was in regard to FAIR and what they had to say. You
Here is the Britannica Introduction to the article on Gnosticism:
Gnosticism
philosophical and religious movement prominent in the Greco-Roman world in
the 2nd century AD. While Gnosticism drew from and influenced in turn many
traditional religions, its effect was most clearly felt on nascent
At 08:52 PM 8/12/03 -0600, R. Kent Francis wrote:
Kent Francis writes:
If we look at the Bible as history, the distances involved are less than 500
miles by 100 miles and the area was inhabited by Phoenesian, Philistines,
Syrians, Egyptians and other peoples in addition to the Israelites... who
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:28:14 -0800 John W. Redelfs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I heard of 'em. In fact, I'm on the Mormon Thinker's list. But
Mormon
Thinkers is a Johnny Come Lately list. Zion has been around since
November
of 1993. --JWR
Give my regards to Andy, John. He booted me from the
That may be Bill, but ZION was supposed to be discontinued in favor of
MormonThinkers sometime ago, or so I understood. Obviously it did not
completely happen.
Chopped Liver??? Well .. maybe not quite that.
George
- Original Message -
From: Grampa Bill in Savannah [EMAIL
George Cobabe wrote:
ZION was supposed to be discontinued in favor of
MormonThinkers sometime ago, or so I understood.
Obviously it did not completely happen.
___
This is news to me. Never heard of a list called
MormonThinkers. John?
Larry Jackson
Could mean that this is where all our principals came from. Our
principal was Seminole.
*jeep!
--Chet
Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
Probably due to the statement in the introduction to the BoM which
states that they are the principal ancestors . . .
So Kent wondered:
So does that mean
I ran across a book review of a work entitled MORMON FAITH IN AMERICA by
Maxine Hanks and Jeanne Kinney Williams. It is a children's book for
grade 6 and up.
Is this the same Maxine Hanks that was disciplined by the Church in 1993 as
part of the September Six? If so, curious that an apostate
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:28:16 -0600 George Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think that there is a difference between melting and working gold
and the
making of metal alloys such as steel. I think that is what is
being
objected to when they say they was no metal working.
George
The
He works off of a checklist.
Broken heart
Contrite Spirit
Ordinances completed
Not a member of silly email lists
Jon
Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
Luke 18:13.
Again, does God work off a checklist, or does He desire a broken heart
and
a contrite spirit?
Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
Luke 18:13.
Again, does God work off a checklist, or does He desire a broken heart
and
a contrite spirit?
At 08:21 PM 8/11/03 -0400, Jon Spencer wrote:
He works off of a checklist.
__x_ Broken heart
__x_ Contrite Spirit
__x_ Ordinances completed
Not a member
I think you mean steel and if so you are correct. However the problem was
with people who do not believe that.
George
- Original Message -
From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 05:59:17 -0600 George Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more on this issue you might want to check out fairlds.com.
This is a
group of LDS apologists that are tracking the issue.
Yeah, and this lousy board just excommunicated me for making statements
about physiological
Paul, you should know that the FAIR message boards are not the FAIR members,
but rather visitors who post what they want. If that is the best you can
do - accuse FAIR of being responsible for everything on the message boards
then you need to correct yourself and tell it correctly.
Now it you
On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:07:41 -0700 Rick Mathis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
At 08:14 AM 8/11/2003 -0500, Paul wrote:
Anyway, I'm going to shut up now
because I seem to get banned just about every where I go.
Thank you very much, Paul.
Rick Mathis
You're welcome.
blahh
Paul O
[EMAIL
At 12:58 AM 7/13/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote:
It says after all we can do, not after all we do. That's not to say
we don't repent and repent often. I'll give you a scenario. Suppose
someone commits sin no. 760 of the day but it is a tiny thing and he
hardly notices. It is certainly nothing
Paul Osborne wrote:
What do you think JWR? Am I worse than you. Be honest!
On average, you have rougher edges than I have. But my extremes are
rougher than your extremes. Even now I can't believe I have said the
things I've said about the Canadians and the British. --JWR
http://www.sciencenews.org/20021221/fob1.asp
Here is an interesting story in SCIENCE NEWS that suggests man may have
evolved in China as well as Africa as is generally supposed. Has anyone
heard more about this? --JWR
I think that there is a difference between melting and working gold and the
making of metal alloys such as steel. I think that is what is being
objected to when they say they was no metal working.
George
- Original Message -
From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
There was a recent article in Meridian Magazine online that discussed the
intereaction between some of the groups and the BofM people.
http://www.meridianmagazine.com/sci_rel/030731fair.html for part one of the
two part series. The homepage for Meridian has the second part of the
article. Brandt
Paul Osborne wrote:
---
I almost cried when I found out that apologists at BYU now
say the Nephites rode deer and not horses. Now we have wooden swords and
deer. Somehow that is not what I think Joseph Smith was seeing in the
Urim Thummim. I'm sad.
---
Paul, don't be sad about finding
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