[ZION] New guy

2002-12-16 Thread George Cobabe
are the greatest in the world. I hope that I am right about the list - I look forward to receiving the first messages from you. George Cobabe, CLU, ChFC Ogden, Utah [EMAIL PROTECTED] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read

Re: [ZION] Re: New guy

2002-12-16 Thread George Cobabe
George has to be better looking, because Jim is definitely smarter. But to tell you the truth if you have seen one Cobabe you will recognize the rest. Just happy to be here and living off what I suspect is the good name of good o'cousin Jim. George - Original Message - From: Stephen

Re: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-16 Thread George Cobabe
NO - that is wrong - the wrong one is Wright! THAT is right! Who's on second? George - Original Message - From: Chet [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 12:52 PM Subject: RE: [ZION] New guy Stacy Smith wrote: Not you. I'll take you any day over

Re: [ZION] heck ain't cussin

2002-12-16 Thread George Cobabe
Marc - would it be true to say that we LDS believe in a universal definition of Godhood, and what is entailed in that high station, and see infinite manifestations of that universal concept? What is God is a universal constant that many, many are exalted to conform with? If this is true - then

Re: [ZION] Re: New guy

2002-12-16 Thread George Cobabe
I can tell you all that Marc forgets nothing. Cobabe is German for to slay by removing the head or executioner. George - Original Message - From: Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 2:52 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Re: New guy I say off

Re: [ZION] New Main Street Plaza proposal

2002-12-16 Thread George Cobabe
It ends up costing the Church again for that which they/we already paid for. I hope that the good citizens of Salt Lake see the hypocrisy in the Mayors action - but I do not hold out hope. George - Original Message - From: Jon Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday,

Re: [ZION] heck ain't cussin

2002-12-16 Thread George Cobabe
became an abstract and separate existence an und für sich (in and of itself, existentially speaking), which laid the ground for later apostate notions such as the God without body, parts or passions. George Cobabe wrote: Marc - would it be true to say that we LDS believe in a universal definition

Re: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-16 Thread George Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 8:16 PM Subject: RE: [ZION] New guy George Cobabe wrote: NO - that is wrong - the wrong one is Wright! THAT is right! Who's on second? OK, once more -- it's WHAT on second. Who is on first. Don't mess around

Re: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
. George - Original Message - From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 7:45 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] New guy George Cobabe favored us with: I am glad to be one of the newest member of this list. By its description it is what I have

Re: [ZION] heck ain't cussin

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
- From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] heck ain't cussin George Cobabe favored us with: Marc - would it be true to say that we LDS believe in a universal definition of Godhood, and what is entailed

Re: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
I was trying not to let it happen, but I think you topped everyone and surely had the last word on this. George - Original Message - From: Stephen Beecroft [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 10:47 PM Subject: RE: [ZION] New guy -George- Could

Re: [ZION] New guy

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
Boy - you lost me there - are you asking about abilities (to argue) or the size of bullets (so as to end the argument)? George - Original Message - From: Rick Mathis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] New guy At 09:16 PM

Re: [ZION] NOMA: A Contrarian view

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
Mark - I tried it as well on another list - it will not work. Your concept makes too much sense for someone imbued with science to accept. George - Original Message - From: Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 9:17 AM Subject: Re: [ZION]

Re: [ZION] Afghanistan improved?

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
Marc, rather than start another political yelling match with you about the USA and our policies, I will just say you are all screwed up and let it go at that. I am reminded of the old story of the Stallion and the horse fly. The fly kept biting the horse but when it was all over the fly was

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-17 Thread George Cobabe
Marc suggests: If one feels the specific events of the American Revolution were inspired, one would also have to believe that the French Revolution was inspired, since it laid the groundwork for the American Revolution, and the intellectuals behind the liberalism (in the traditional sense of the

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-18 Thread George Cobabe
. Redelfs wrote: George Cobabe favored us with: Hate to be picky Marc, but the French Revolution is generally thought to have occurred between 1789 and 1799, sometime after the American Revolution. You might recall the keys dates of 1776 and 1782 for America. I think it was the French following

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-18 Thread George Cobabe
The real question is who created the law for this universe. Are the laws for this universe, and this God, different from those of other universes? If God was the one who created the unique laws for this creation, then He would surely be Omnipotent in every sense of the word - Latin or otherwise.

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

2002-12-18 Thread George Cobabe
Give me some time John and I think I can demonstrate that this is not necessarily so. George - Original Message - From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 7:23 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law Jim Cobabe favored us

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-18 Thread George Cobabe
Marc - it seems the question is not he definition of natural law, except as it involves who created that law. The question is: Did God, i.e. our God, create the natural law for his creation or did He just transpose it from the overall eternal concept of Natural Law. Is every universe, form

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-18 Thread George Cobabe
the example of the Father in being exalted from a mortal man. George - Original Message - From: Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21 George Cobabe wrote: Marc - it seems

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-18 Thread George Cobabe
He cannot break the laws that He has agreed to follow. He cannot break His promises to his children. If he did so he would cease to be God. Note that both examples are self limiting, decisions that He has to make and agree to. George - Original Message - From: Stephen Beecroft [EMAIL

Re: [ZION] Natural Law

2002-12-18 Thread George Cobabe
Stephen - apparently you are not the only one who admires him as I found an inordinate amount of references to his publication on the subject of natural law. He was quoted by all sorts of people. Thanks for reading the long post I sent. George - Original Message - From: Stephen

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

2002-12-18 Thread George Cobabe
I can agree that God is subject to 'natural law, but only in the sense that He has created those laws and needs to maintain the integrity to obey the same rules that He has created. If He did not honor His word or His law He would cease to be God. George - Original Message - From:

Re: [ZION] Going, Going, Gone

2002-12-18 Thread George Cobabe
story no longer available - if you want us to read it you almost need to copy and paste. George - Original Message - From: Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: zion-l [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:55 PM Subject: [ZION] Going, Going, Gone A rare column by

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

2002-12-19 Thread George Cobabe
Redelfs' Commentary: God became God by obedience to pre-existing, coeternal law. And if we are to become Gods we must follow the same path that he took. The idea that God made up the laws by which he became God is a Protestant idea. It is not the gospel. I do not believe that anyone is

Re: [ZION] Natural Law

2002-12-19 Thread George Cobabe
Opps, I meant to say: Those who argue there is a Law *above* our God need ... George - Original Message - From: George Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 6:38 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Natural Law Furthermore, if Natural Law is the great

Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21

2002-12-20 Thread George Cobabe
geez Paul - and I was beginning to have such confidence in your doctrinal judgment. George - Original Message - From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Curiosity About Alma 1:21 Amen! John, you and I

Re: [ZION] Natural Law

2002-12-20 Thread George Cobabe
inconsistencies in their theology. George Cobabe wrote: Furthermore, if Natural Law is the great constant and above God, then it is the law we should worship. If we choose to do so it is then we become more like Protestants and Catholics, in that our object of worship becomes something without form

Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread George Cobabe
Paul, I think you have misunderstood what the prophets have been doing for we are commanded to: (Doctrine and Covenants 20:17-20.) 17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven

Re: [ZION] Natural Law

2002-12-20 Thread George Cobabe
powerful than God, even law. George - Original Message - From: Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Natural Law George Cobabe wrote: You are absolutely right. However we are to worship God as the supreme

Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread George Cobabe
PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 12:18 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Worship Christ George, You're welcome to take up your differences with President Hinkley if you like. As for me and my house, we will worship Christ. Paul O On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:49:27 -0700 George

Re: [ZION] Notice from Listowner

2002-12-21 Thread George Cobabe
I have followed instructions, receiving a confirming email, but still do not know the email address to submit posts to. Will that be coming from smartgroups in another notice forthwith? or do you have it to give to us? Or have I been blind and just missed it? George - Original Message -

Re: [ZION] Race discussion

2002-12-21 Thread George Cobabe
It does not look like you need to do any more work now. What I would work on is your own name. Something is just not right about your signature. Couz George - Original Message - From: Jim Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 9:59 AM Subject:

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

2002-12-21 Thread George Cobabe
Jon, there is no difference. In our theology creation means to organize. At least that is what I meant. :-) However, He was still the one that organized the Law for this universe. George - Original Message - From: Jon Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday,

Re: [ZION] can't be a sealer

2002-12-23 Thread George Cobabe
I worked as a baptizer in the Ogden Temple - figured it was the only way I could serve and still stay awake. Never boring - get bored and you drown. I finally had to quit - couldn't stay quiet that long. After a while you get tired of old men telling you to be quiet. But it was great for the

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

2002-12-23 Thread George Cobabe
The term eternal progression does not occur in either scripture nor early church literature. What does that tell us? Is it a term like *free* agency when *moral* agency is the correct term? George - Original Message - From: Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ZION] Subject to natural law

2002-12-23 Thread George Cobabe
Geez, I have lost track of who is arguing what and why? The original point was that as God created/organized the world He also created/organized the law that governed it. To criticize me for using a word that you object to, when I capitulated and used your word (organize) instead of the

[ZION] Moral War

2003-01-23 Thread George Cobabe
with this definition of Moral War? Or would anyone add to this list of requirements? Now if you want the flames to fly - apply this to a real situation and we will see how difficult it is to fight a moral war and apply each of these rules to the conflict. George George Cobabe, CLU, ChFC Ogden, Utah [EMAIL

Re: [ZION] Moral War

2003-01-23 Thread George Cobabe
will not be possible! George - Original Message - From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Moral War George Cobabe favored us with: The question was asked by one, is it not possible for both sides to fight a moral

[ZION] Moral War

2003-01-24 Thread George Cobabe
and clarification of the points I have made above. George Cobabe, CLU, ChFC Ogden, Utah [EMAIL PROTECTED] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html

Re: [ZION] Conditional divine love

2003-01-24 Thread George Cobabe
Divine love is perfect, infinite, enduring, and universal. The full flower of divine love and our greatest blessings from that love are conditional -- predicated upon our obedience to eternal law. Stephen, this statement seems to negate your earlier idea that love is conditional. It seems to me

[ZION] Principles of a Moral War

2003-01-25 Thread George Cobabe
must always do all we can to avoid war and contention, consistent with the points listed above. Being ready, willing, and able to fight does not go against this principle. However, being anxious to fight does go against this principle. (By the way are we back on Zionsbest exclusively?) George

Re: [ZION] I'm all shook up.

2003-05-27 Thread George Cobabe
- Original Message - From: Larry Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 8:53 AM Subject: RE: [ZION] I'm all shook up. George Cobabe: ... go back to sleep it is just an earthquake. ___ I hope Cousin Bill is ok, but I couldn't resist

Re: [ZION] Constitutional Losses

2003-05-29 Thread George Cobabe
I think that you will find that the elders of the church are not prophesied to save the constitution, but rather the principles of the constitution. I suggest that means that after the United States has gone down in flames the only people that will still be free with the constitutional principles

Re: [ZION] Constitutional Losses

2003-05-29 Thread George Cobabe
Steven - even in Knowlton's quote it does not say the nation would be saved, only that the constitution will be borne away from destruction. This may very well be separate from the entity known as the United States. It is unlikely, for example, that the city of Zion in the Mississippi valley

Re: [ZION] God's love

2003-05-30 Thread George Cobabe
Gary, I accept Elder Maxwells comments with all my heart, as that is the way I have always beloved. However how does this reconcile with Elder Nelsons article in the Ensign where he appears to say something very different? George - Original Message - From: Gerald Smith [EMAIL

Re: [ZION] Constitutional Losses

2003-05-30 Thread George Cobabe
of the US lapses into something less desirable and less livable. Scott On Wed, 28 May 2003 10:31:19 -0600, George Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I think that you will find that the elders of the church are not prophesied to save the constitution, but rather the principles

Re: [ZION] Goodbye

2003-06-14 Thread George Cobabe
I had great hopes of finding a list where I could discuss gospel topics with true believers and not have the anti -Mormon baiters always jumping in with their obnoxious comments. It would be nice if the fellow participants would be willing to discuss without being judgmental if we happen to

Re: [ZION] Goodbye

2003-06-15 Thread George Cobabe
Stacy, I am not interested in joining a list that only discusses one topic, although it might be interesting. I am really interested in a group of committed LDS that can discuss and suggest and gently critique the thoughts of others. There are a lot of questions that I feel need to be discussed

Re: [ZION] hand shakes

2003-06-24 Thread George Cobabe
Boy o Boy - talking about whether or not to shake hands for fear of illness and death makes a lot more sense than talking about doctrinal or news topics. What a lot of nonsense - I keep waiting for the punch line - but it seems to be getting more serious all of the time. George - Original

Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...

2003-07-13 Thread George Cobabe
consist of? Physical endurance? Brainwashing? Torture or something less diabolical such as integrity? What about martyrdom? Can we have any stories? Stacy. At 11:36 AM 07/13/2003 -0500, you wrote: At 10:03 AM 7/13/03 -0600, George Cobabe wrote: Come on folks - this is an easy list

Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...

2003-07-13 Thread George Cobabe
I am sorry that your life is so terrible that you need to disagree. I have noticed that when the burden is great and is heavy to bear it is a result of sin and of ignoring the promise of the Savior: My burden is light. Challenges? Yes, but manageable and to be celebrated as opportunities to

Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...

2003-07-13 Thread George Cobabe
, not Circumstances is one of the keys to a happy life. George - Original Message - From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ... George Cobabe favored us with: I am sorry

Re: [ZION] Is Laughter a Sin?

2003-07-15 Thread George Cobabe
Chet this is a good post, but I have another, additional, view of the striving for perfection. Section 93 says that truth is independent in the sphere in which it operates. Matthew says Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect It seems impossible to be perfect by the

Re: [ZION] Is Laughter a Sin?

2003-07-15 Thread George Cobabe
OK, but then so are road shows. George - Original Message - From: Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 10:20 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Is Laughter a Sin? I don't feel the same way and I'm a former Baptist. I feel it's sensationalistic.

Re: [ZION] Aaronic Temples vs. Melchizedek Temples

2003-07-16 Thread George Cobabe
Steve with your permission I will send this post to the other list. OK??? George - Original Message - From: Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 8:02 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Aaronic Temples vs. Melchizedek Temples Also at

Re: [ZION] Aaronic Temples vs. Melchizedek Temples

2003-07-16 Thread George Cobabe
Richard Cowan is a professor at BYU. He has been a Stake President and who knows what else. He is also Blind. He is one you can have some confidence in. George - Original Message - From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:47 AM

Re: [ZION] [MT] Aaronic and Melchizedek Temples

2003-07-16 Thread George Cobabe
, July 16, 2003 4:39 PM Subject: RE: [ZION] [MT] Aaronic and Melchizedek Temples George Cobabe wrote: Some thoughts about the temple questions. I asked the question on another list I participate in and got the following. I don't know what other list you got your answers from, George. But it seems

Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...

2003-07-17 Thread George Cobabe
I understand you concerns Bill, for as you I have also sinned and stand still condemned in this world - until the atonement takes action in my life at least. In fact, however, there is an ordinance of confirming that you have attained this status. It used to be more common than now and is only

Re: [ZION] Mars

2003-07-30 Thread George Cobabe
I have to admit, Steve, that this is thinking outside of the box. There have been so many other times that a harbinger of war would have been appropriate that I need to ask what were the signs at those times? If heavenly bodies are truly foretellers of events, or trends, as you suggest then

Re: [ZION] Mars

2003-07-30 Thread George Cobabe
Quite frankly I think that you finding it interesting is interesting to me. What do I mean? If this event has meaning to you then it is good. I believe that the best definition of a miracle is something that produces faith. So it is with signs. they are important to the one that receives a

Re: [ZION] Mars

2003-07-31 Thread George Cobabe
: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Mars George Cobabe wrote: Quite frankly I think that you finding it interesting is interesting to me. What do I mean? If this event has meaning to you then it is good. I believe that the best definition of a miracle is something

Re: [ZION] Mars

2003-07-31 Thread George Cobabe
- From: Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 5:56 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Mars At 11:36 PM 7/30/2003, you wrote: George Cobabe wrote: Quite frankly I think that you finding it interesting is interesting to me. What do I mean? If this event

Re: [ZION] Mars

2003-07-31 Thread George Cobabe
Whoops, I meant faith not miracles. George - Original Message - From: George Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Mars That is true, although I was speaking of FAITH, not signs. If miracles do not aid

Re: [ZION] Mars

2003-08-01 Thread George Cobabe
Well, it depends upon John being correct. George - Original Message - From: Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Mars Fwiw, I asked John Pratt (Astronomer and ancient calender expert) about Mars' current

Re: [ZION] Miracles (was: Mars

2003-08-01 Thread George Cobabe
And Chet - what was the effect of the miracles you cited on the faith you enjoy? I suspect that your faith was strengthed by the manifestations of Gods love and interest in your daughter. Mine is when I read or am involved in a manifestation of the power of God and His interest in me and mine.

Re: [ZION] Faith as a working principle (was MARS)

2003-08-02 Thread George Cobabe
, 2003 10:31 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Mars I might dispute that one can only have an immature faith in this life. A perfect one, no, but mature is definitely possible for some. Stacy. At 11:10 AM 07/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: George Cobabe wrote: If miracles do not aid in the further

Re: [ZION] DNA and the Book of Mormon

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
2003 07:22:05 -0600 George Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK, Paul I will forget it, especially if you will not just throw irresponsible statements and claims about just any old way. George Oh come on George, you're just trying to get me started. I'm not that dumb. I've been around

Re: [ZION] Caral, Peru 2627 B.C.

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
You might think of how Lamanites were described in the BofM. It was not based on race or lineage, rather on the state of righteousness. The membership of the group was constantly changing from one time to another. We recognize in the church the principle of adoption. We give the blessing and

Re: [ZION] DNA and the Book of Mormon

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
delete it is, with a knowing smile on my face :-) George - Original Message - From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] DNA and the Book of Mormon On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:34:15 -0600 George Cobabe [EMAIL

Re: [ZION] DNA and the Book of Mormon

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
No, I do not. The idea that the DNA from a small group of about 20-30 people in the Lehi party would have a significant impact on the populations already in the Americas is hard to accept and understand. If you can somehow show what kind of DNA you are looking for you will already be way ahead

Re: [ZION] Caral, Peru 2627 B.C.

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
While the statement quoted is the problem it is never the less the fact that for many, many years the idea of other peoples being there first has been a part of the belief of many people. A careful reading of 1st Nephi would lead you to believe that they were interacting with native people from

Re: [ZION] Kicked Off the FAIR List

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
: [ZION] Kicked Off the FAIR List George Cobabe wrote: That may be Bill, but ZION was supposed to be discontinued in favor of MormonThinkers sometime ago, or so I understood. Obviously it did not completely happen. Huh? I don't understand this at all. Zion and Mormon Thinkers are two

Re: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
after all. Scott George Cobabe wrote: I think that there is a difference between melting and working gold and the making of metal alloys such as steel. I think that is what is being objected to when they say they was no metal working. George - Original Message - From: John W

Re: [ZION] Kicked Off the FAIR List

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
. Why not Fair? Stacy. At 01:23 PM 08/11/2003 -0800, you wrote: George Cobabe wrote: I do not believe that anyone on FAIR would make such a claim. Paul O. was not speaking of that group of people when he expressed his concern. I am sorry that you have found them lacking in so many areas

Re: [ZION] DNA and the Book of Mormon

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
and the Book of Mormon At 07:14 AM 8/11/2003, you wrote: On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 05:59:17 -0600 George Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more on this issue you might want to check out fairlds.com. This is a group of LDS apologists that are tracking the issue. Yeah, and this lousy board

Re: [ZION] Kicked Off the FAIR List

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
, 2003 3:23 PM Subject: [ZION] Kicked Off the FAIR List George Cobabe wrote: I do not believe that anyone on FAIR would make such a claim. Paul O. was not speaking of that group of people when he expressed his concern. I am sorry that you have found them lacking in so many areas, but I do

Re: [ZION] DNA and the Book of Mormon

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
Paul: You have such a tendency to throw things around. Could you provide a reference for anyone who believes about Deer and Wooden swords? Hopefully a url!!! George - Original Message - From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 6:11 PM

Re: [ZION] Kicked Off the FAIR List

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 3:56 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Kicked Off the FAIR List George Cobabe wrote of FAIR: It is without a doubt the best group and list that I have been lucky enough to associate with. = Gramp Bill comments: Well

Re: [ZION] MormonThinkers [was Kicked Off the FAIR List]

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
Subject: [ZION] MormonThinkers [was Kicked Off the FAIR List] George Cobabe wrote: ZION was supposed to be discontinued in favor of MormonThinkers sometime ago, or so I understood. Obviously it did not completely happen. ___ This is news to me. Never heard of a list called

Re: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:28:16 -0600 George Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I think that there is a difference between melting and working gold and the making of metal alloys such as steel. I think that is what is being objected to when they say they was no metal working. George

Re: [ZION] DNA and the Book of Mormon

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 12:13:35 -0600 George Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Paul: You have such a tendency to throw things around. Could you provide a reference for anyone who believes about Deer and Wooden swords? Hopefully a url!!! Go to the FAIR message board. I can hardly

Re: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
I think that there is a difference between melting and working gold and the making of metal alloys such as steel. I think that is what is being objected to when they say they was no metal working. George - Original Message - From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ZION] Mayan Nephites?

2003-08-14 Thread George Cobabe
There was a recent article in Meridian Magazine online that discussed the intereaction between some of the groups and the BofM people. http://www.meridianmagazine.com/sci_rel/030731fair.html for part one of the two part series. The homepage for Meridian has the second part of the article. Brandt

Re: [ZION] Temple Defilement

2003-08-19 Thread George Cobabe
. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / George Cobabe, CLU, ChFC Ogden,Utah [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [ZION] freedom versus free agency

2003-09-01 Thread George Cobabe
Although I concur with your comments I find the use of the term Free Agency to be a poor choice of words. Notwithstanding it has become a popular term in the church. Rather the idea of Moral Agency is the more useful and I believe correct term. Freedom is a part of Moral Agency, but only a

Re: [ZION] freedom versus free agency

2003-09-02 Thread George Cobabe
Well Stacy everyone is in the same boat to one degree or another. We too often talk about our freedom without ever considering what that would mean in an absolute sense. True perfect freedom only comes with perfect knowledge and understanding. When we have anything less our complete freedom

Re: [ZION] Where Suicides Go

2003-09-08 Thread George Cobabe
No. You and I are not in a postion to make such judgements and should not do so. Can you imagine telling the family of such a victim this speculation? You do not know the circumstances or the state of mind of such a person and cannot understand the judgement that will be offered to them.

Re: [ZION] The Meaning of the Olive Press or the Winepress in Practical Terms

2003-09-08 Thread George Cobabe
How is grape juice a better symbol than water? the color? Other than that there is little difference. George - Original Message - From: Larry Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 2:20 PM Subject: RE: [ZION] The Meaning of the Olive Press or

Re: [ZION] Where Suicides Go

2003-09-08 Thread George Cobabe
by someone with perfect knowledge. I am quite happy to leave that judgment to someone qualified to make it, because I am most certainly NOT qualified to make it. Jon George Cobabe wrote: No. You and I are not in a postion to make such judgements and should not do so. Can you imagine telling

Re: [ZION] Where Suicides Go

2003-09-08 Thread George Cobabe
are having trouble seeing where we disagree :-) Jon - Original Message - From: George Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 11:10 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Where Suicides Go Jon, I am having trouble seeing where we disagree. I think you have

Re: [ZION] Confusion in Gospel Doctrine Class

2003-09-10 Thread George Cobabe
Paul, before you go through a tirade like that you really ought to understand the subject. I think that if you really take a look at the subject you would find a completely different approach than the one you suggest. The relationship between a married couple has been used for centuries, and for

Re: [ZION] Confusion in Gospel Doctrine Class

2003-09-10 Thread George Cobabe
Subject: Re: [ZION] Confusion in Gospel Doctrine Class On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 06:55:36 -0600 George Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Paul, before you go through a tirade like that you really ought to Well, I've looked at the subject and from what I have read about the Jews they treated

Re: [ZION] Language

2003-09-16 Thread George Cobabe
Well I have to check on my reading of the text when compared with yours. Was this a summary of the great classic Lrod of the Rngis? Or stonihmeg esle? George - Original Message - From: Cousin Bill [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Undisclosed-Recipient: Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 6:45 AM

Re: [ZION] apostate working women {was}working woman

2003-09-21 Thread George Cobabe
Amen, Jim. It is too often that people, even members that ought to know better forget this basic truth. We are told not to judge unfairly or unwisely. We are never told NOT to judge, for as you suggest it is an essential part of the gospel of Jesus Christ. George - Original Message -

Re: [ZION] error?

2003-09-28 Thread George Cobabe
that get on and cause disenstion among the participants. George - Original Message - From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:17 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] error? On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 22:18:44 -0600 (GMT-06 George Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED

Re: [ZION] Salvation

2003-10-13 Thread George Cobabe
The idea that the word Salvation only refers to the Exaltation that comes with obeidience and the Atonement is, I beleive, correct. It, nevertheless, has other meanings. Namely Salvation from Adam's transgression which comes to all men. I susopect that it is a general observation that could be

Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?

2003-10-15 Thread George Cobabe
Bob Lonsberry is a radio personality with an early morning talk show in Utah and New York. He lives and works out of Rodchester, NY and simultcasts to both markets for part of the show. What are you incensed about? Is it the fact of the essay or the conclusion reached??? I thought it a good

Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?

2003-10-15 Thread George Cobabe
The streetpreachers belong to an organization whose entire object is to harrass those who disagree with them. Check out Streetpreachers.com or something close to that. They openly declare that the truth is not important, after all we are going to Hell anyway so truth is irrelevant. George

Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?

2003-10-15 Thread George Cobabe
OK, I thought that you were upset with the writer, Bob Lonsberry. The rest I understand. George - Original Message - From: Grampa Bill in Savannah [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter? George

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