[ZION] First Presidency Statement on War
http://www.zionsbest.com/mckay_on_war.html This is a talk given in April General Conference in 1942 during the height of WWII. At the time, President David O. McKay was the Second Counselor in the First Presidency of President Heber J. Grant. Gary Smith posted the talk to the list; but I thought some of you might like to bookmark it, so I put it up on my website. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** ...by proving contraries, truth is made manifest --Joseph Smith, History of the Church, Volume 6, p.248 *** All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] First Presidency statement on war
On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:54:26 -0600, Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: No one has asked anybody to forgive terrorists. They deserve to be brought to justice Perhaps I am wrong, but my understanding is that we _DO_ have to forgive the terrorists. That doesn't, however, mean that they should not still be brought to justice and punished to the full extent of the law for their acts. Scott -- Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott McGee) Web: http://scott.themcgees.org/ -- http://fastmail.fm - The holy hand grenade of email services / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] First Presidency statement on war
I agree. The term forgive can be ambiguous; in the moral sense we are to forgive everyone, but the term is often used in a secular sense of not bringing them to justice, as in dismissing their crime. And I wanted to make it clear that that wasn't what I believed. Scott McGee wrote: On Sun, 20 Oct 2002 00:54:26 -0600, Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: No one has asked anybody to forgive terrorists. They deserve to be brought to justice Perhaps I am wrong, but my understanding is that we _DO_ have to forgive the terrorists. That doesn't, however, mean that they should not still be brought to justice and punished to the full extent of the law for their acts. Scott -- Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott McGee) Web: http://scott.themcgees.org/ -- http://fastmail.fm - The holy hand grenade of email services / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland We do not think that there is an incompatibility between words and deeds; the worst thing is to rush into action before the consequences have been properly debated To think of the future and wait was merely another way of saying one was a coward; any idea of moderation was just an attempt to disguise ones unmanly character; ability to understand a question from all sides meant that one was totally unfitted for action. Pericles about his fellow-Athenians, as quoted by Thucydides in The Peloponessian Wars Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] First Presidency statement on war
Who are you responding to? And what are you trying to say? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually it's sarcasm. If we as a Church are supposed to follow the teachings of the BOM, fine, than war is acceptable to fight aggression and to uphold freedoms. But if we as a Church are now saying lets do the Quaker philosphy, lets declare the BOM null and void, and follow the teachings of Christ as in foregiveness, turning the other cheek, etc. We can't have it both ways. Actually, we are to forgive all and everyone, that includes the terrorists. It is up to God in the after-life if he will forgive the terrorist. Different topic - same concept. In the area of oxymorons, is it possible to have a card carrying liberal democrat and a temple going straight laced Latter Day Saint? Victor --- Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No one has asked anybody to forgive terrorists. They deserve to be brought = to justice (which would be a helluva lot easier if you guys would learn to = cooperate with the rest of the world, but I digress); forgiveness is up to = God. So your cynicism falls flat. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let's just settle this once and for all and declare as a church and follo= w item number 2 and declare ourselves the same principles as the Quakers - = total conscience objectors. Let's declare ourselves the followers of Christ and turn the other cheek,= and forgive the terrorists. When the bomb falls on Chicago, lets say to the terrorists - here do the = same to Denver, or to you in the land up North, since Ottawa has been flatt= ened, take Montreal. Cheers --- Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At general conference on 6 April 1942 the First Presidency issued a stat= ement titled Church Membership and Army Service. There are three main points: 1.) Church members must obey the law of their country and serve as soldi= ers if required. 2.) The Church is and must be against war. 3.) God does not hold individual soldiers responsible for war. One interesting statement is, Both sides cannot be wholly right; perhap= s neither is without wrong. Here are three excerpts: Likewise in the present war, righteous men of the Church in both camps = have died, some with great heroism, for their own country's sake. In all th= is our people have but served loyally the country of which they were citize= ns or subjects under the principles we have already stated. We have felt ho= nored that our brethren have died nobly for their country; the Church has b= een benefited by their service and sacrifice. Therefore, renounce war and proclaim peace (DC 98:16.) Thus the Church is and must be against war. The Church itself cannot wag= e war, unless and until the Lord shall issue new commands. It cannot regard= war as a righteous means of settling international disputes; these should = and could be settled-- the nations agreeing--by peaceful negotiation and ad= justment. The whole world is in the midst of a war that seems the worst of all ti= me. This Church is a worldwide Church. Its devoted members are in both camp= s. They are the innocent war instrumentalities of their warring sovereignti= es. On each side they believe they are fighting for home, and country, and = freedom. On each side, our brethren pray to the same God, in the same name,= for victory. Both sides cannot be wholly right; perhaps neither is without= wrong. God will work out in His own due time and in His own sovereign way = the justice and right of the conflict, but He will not hold the innocent in= strumentalities of the war, our brethren in arms, responsible for the confl= ict. This is a major crisis in the world-life of man. God is at the helm. One place you can find the whole statement is at http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~tueller/sunday/arch/2000/h43a.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] =3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D -- __ =3D=3D^=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _ Washington DC's Largest FREE Email service. --- http://www.DCemail.com -= -- A Washington Online Community Member --- http://www.DCpages.com _ Select your own custom email address for FREE! Get [EMAIL PROTECTED] w/N= o Ads, 6MB, POP more! http://www.everyone.net/selectmail?campaign=3Dtag /= /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// /=
Re: [ZION] First Presidency statement on war
In the area of oxymorons, is it possible to have a card carrying liberal democrat and a temple going straight laced Latter Day Saint? No. You cannot be a Democrat and hold a temple recommend. ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] First Presidency statement on war
At 11:03 AM, Monday, 10/21/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In the area of oxymorons, is it possible to have a card carrying liberal democrat and a temple going straight laced Latter Day Saint? Not in my opinion. A conservative Democrat, yes. A liberal Democrat is a socialist. And socialism is diabolical. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
