Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-14 Thread Scott McGee
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:25:28 -0800, Doug McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I did go to a restaurant on a Sunday back in June. We were on vacation and figured we had to eat something. Hmm, so it is ok to break the sabbath on vacation? You probably should have bought something the night before.

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-14 Thread Geoff FOWLER
Scott favored us with the following: I tend to use (not abuse) the Ox in the mire philosophy. For instance, there was a time a few months back where I had to run to the store for something we really needed on a Sunday. I felt really bad about it, and resolved more strongly to anticipate such

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-14 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Pres. Harold B. Lee had an interesting aphorism. He said, It's okay to rescue your ox from the mire on Sunday. But not if you pushed him into it on Saturday evening. (he meant: prepare yourselves for the Sabbath ahead of time to the extent you can) Geoff FOWLER wrote: Scott favored us with the

Re: Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-13 Thread Paul Osborne
In my opinion the more parties the better. Stacy. I agree. . .party on, dude!! Yeahh! Let's all have a party!! :-))) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-13 Thread Paul Osborne
The United Order was voluntary, socialism isn't. That is a pretty big difference in my book. Of course your right, John. Why didn't I think of that? Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-13 Thread Mark Gregson
In effect we've struck a devil's bargain -- raw materials and geography in turn for huddling under your nuclear umbrella, so your son's actually not far off the mark. I'd feel much safer without the umbrella, especially since 11 September 2001. No one has ever yet given me a list of the

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-13 Thread Dan R Allen
John: Speaking of unlawful transfer of property, a couple of days ago my son made an interesting observation. He said that the USA provides a national defense for Canada and gets Canada to pay for it by abusing trade regulations. I'm not sure you would agree with the first half of the

Re: [ZION] one party rule?

2002-11-13 Thread Paul Osborne
Gary said: women reproductive issues - I can't use the real term because it is against charter, Yeah but we knew what you meant. ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month!

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-13 Thread Marc A. Schindler
*Some* of that criticism of the Repubs is deserved, I think -- Bush was tight with oil interests, which is okay, but he allowed further deregulations which basically allowed companies to hide a lot of stuff from their shareholders. Not that we're lily-white, either. The TSX (the Toronto Stock

[ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-13 Thread Gary Smith
The difference is that Zion will not force you to give up your wheat or other items. One must voluntarily give all things through consecration, otherwise it isn't taken. Of course, those who will not consecrate also will not be allowed to dwell in Zion, but you have choices. The Lord doesn't

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Jon Spencer
Then I think that ALL Utah Mormons should be ex'ed. Hmmm - good bye President Hinckley. OK, so that won't work. How about this? Set up a booth in the malls which will give $100 to anyone with a temple recommend. Collect the names. After a few weeks, ex them all! Yes! By the way, when I get

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Doug McGee
Yup, us bad old Utah Mormons.. Gosh, I haven't been to the Mall on a Sunday yet. I must just not know what I'm missing. Do they have free entertainment on Sundays??? Thinking back, I don't recall the last time I was even at a grocery store or any other kind of store on a Sunday. I did go

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-12 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Jon Spencer favored us with: Then I think that ALL Utah Mormons should be ex'ed. Hmmm - good bye President Hinckley. Are you suggesting that President Hinckley goes shopping at the mall on Sunday? grin OK, so that won't work. How about this? Set up a booth in the

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-12 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Doug McGee favored us with: Yup, us bad old Utah Mormons.. Gosh, I haven't been to the Mall on a Sunday yet. I must just not know what I'm missing. Do they have free entertainment on Sundays??? Thinking back, I don't recall the last time I was even at a grocery store

RE: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Jim Cobabe
Perhaps the motivation behind liberal rhetoric reacting to the Republican domination in US politics is more instructive than all the supposedly moderate and centrist Democrat voices urging respect and tolerance for their views. Perhaps Bill Moyers editorial gives a better picture of what

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Marc A. Schindler
We hicks out here in the stayx don't shop on Sundays (speaking for me and my house, anywho). I won't even put gas in the car on Sunday. We always make sure there's enough gas in the cars on Saturday so that whoever is taking a vehicle into Edmonton Monday morning has enough. Doug McGee wrote:

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Stacy Smith
I think what everyone means by socialists are the people informally who believe that the government should pay for health care for everyone regardless of income or social status, not necessarily those that belong to the Communist party or groups thereof. I think this needs to be clarified

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Irwin Delay
In a previous post, Stacy Smith wrote, I think what everyone means by socialists are the people informally who believe that the government should pay for health care for everyone regardless of income or social status, not necessarily those that belong to the Communist party or groups thereof. I

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 09:42 11/12/2002 -0800, Stacy wrote: I think what everyone means by socialists are the people informally who believe that the government should pay for health care for everyone regardless of income or social status, not necessarily those that belong to the Communist party or groups thereof.

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Irwin Delay favored us with: Thanks for the clarification. We are not even married yet and I need to be corrected. (grin) After you are married, you will get all the correction you need. grin --JWR

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Gary Smith wrote: I think the problem in a one party system is shown historically. The South became polarized to the Democratic party in the 1850s, with other parties being totally squeezed out (Republicans, Whigs, Know-Nothings, etc) Well, actually the Know-Nothings became known as

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Yeah, fundamentalists are taking control all over the place. Pretty sad, isn't it? Jim Cobabe wrote: Perhaps the motivation behind liberal rhetoric reacting to the Republican domination in US politics is more instructive than all the supposedly moderate and centrist Democrat voices urging

RE: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Irwin- Thanks for the clarification. We are not even married yet and I need to be corrected. (grin) -John- After you are married, you will get all the correction you need. That's what I thought at first, but Michelle informs me that this is a slanderous falsehood. Stephen

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Stacy Smith
In my opinion the more parties the better. Stacy. At 07:00 AM 11/12/2002 -0900, you wrote: After much pondering, Gary Smith favored us with: I think the problem in a one party system is shown historically. The South became polarized to the Democratic party in the 1850s, with other parties

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Well said, and welcome to the list, Irwin. Irwin Delay wrote: Hello, my name is Irwin Delay. I recently joined the list. Although I am not a Latter-day Saint, I have been reading LDS literature for the past three years. Also, I am engaged to a Latter-day Saint. I must respond to the

Re:Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Val
-- Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In my opinion the more parties the better. Stacy. I agree. . .party on, dude!! val At 07:00 AM 11/12/2002 -0900, you wrote: After much pondering, Gary Smith favored us with: I think the problem in a one party system is shown historically. The

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 11:42 11/12/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote: And politicians are like underwear: they need to be changed periodically. And dunked in suds and hung out to dry. (or would taken to the cleaners be better? no, that's what they do to us) Till the ever watchful

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 11:00 11/12/2002 -0800, you wrote: In my opinion the more parties the better. YES!!! the more the merrier. Now who's bringing the cookies? the green jello Till the party animal // /// ZION LIST

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Marc A. Schindler
John W. Redelfs wrote: For instance, to me a socialist is anyone who advocates government redistribution of the wealth from those who produce wealth to those who don't. Using that definition the Democratic party is definitely controlled by socialists. But then using that definition, the

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Paul Osborne
What I read into Elder Jensen's article is if the Democratic party isn't what we want it to be, then perhaps if enough of us were to switch over to it, we could change it for the better. We'd kick the socialists out of it and into the Green Party (or other socialist party of one's choice), and

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Paul Osborne
Thinking back, I don't recall the last time I was even at a grocery store or any other kind of store on a Sunday. I've snuck out a few times over the years and it makes me feel guilty. But, when I've gone shopping after midnight (Monday morning) my conscience is as clear as can be. What do you

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Stacy Smith
Well, I had a rather different idea about what kind of parties to have. Lol. Stacy. At 02:18 PM 11/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: At 11:00 11/12/2002 -0800, you wrote: In my opinion the more parties the better. YES!!! the more the merrier. Now who's bringing the cookies? the green

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Paul Osborne
I've been thinking of becoming a Democrat. I can't see a nickle's worth of difference between Democrats and Republicans except in their rhetoric. They both vote the same wrong way on the issues that matter to me. And since I never vote for the candidate of either party, why not be a

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Paul Osborne
Irwin wrote, A strong federal government is a must in order to protect the rights of the minority. I agree, just so long as they don't step on my right while in the process of protecting others. ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Stacy Smith
I would refrain from making such comments on the list in case certain persons come on this list that are known between us. I wasn't trying to correct you but only giving my views on the subject for the list. Do I believe everyone should have free health care? Too expensive in my opinion.

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Geoff FOWLER
Paul wrote: I've snuck out a few times over the years and it makes me feel guilty. But, when I've gone shopping after midnight (Monday morning) my conscience is as clear as can be. What do you think of that? I love those loopholes. ;-) I don't consider them loopholes at all. When I started

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 12:46 11/12/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote: This is a concept we're well acquainted with in Canada, where we separate the Head of State from Head of Government. The Head of State (the husband) is purely ceremonial and only really needed in times of crisis ;-) You mean Red was giving me bad

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Dan R Allen
Irwin wrote, A strong federal government is a must in order to protect the rights of the minority. Paul: I agree, just so long as they don't step on my right while in the process of protecting others. ;-) Dan: A strong federal government is also a must in order to eliminate the rights of

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Paul Osborne
JWR said: I am opposed to the concept of legal plunder which is using the law to steal from one man and give it to another. And the Democrats have pretty much built their party on that concept. Plunder?? Can we read about this in the DC? Consecration? United Order? Let us take from the riches

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Such as laws which allowed the workers of Enron to have their pension funds robbed by the big brass (sorry, I couldn't resist, although I'm sure John would actually agree). You bet I do. That's called corporate welfare, and is just

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Paul Osborne favored us with: Plunder?? Can we read about this in the DC? Consecration? United Order? Let us take from the riches of John Redelfs and give to poor Paul Osborne! After all, we are all brethren and we should be more equal in wealth. Right? If you need

[ZION] one party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Gary Smith
Irwin, Welcome to the list. I hope you'll enjoy your stay. Let me clarify my points for you and everyone else on the list. The Democratic party has evolved tremendously since the days of Thomas Jefferson. He saw a great need for a limited government, in order to keep the federal government from

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Well, you'll note how most of his projects end up. Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 12:46 11/12/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote: This is a concept we're well acquainted with in Canada, where we separate the Head of State from Head of Government. The Head of State (the husband) is purely ceremonial

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I don't care whose watch they were codified under -- they're still laws which allow for unlawful transfer of property. Dan R Allen wrote: John W. Redelfs wrote: For instance, to me a socialist is anyone who advocates government redistribution of the wealth from those who produce wealth to

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: I don't care whose watch they were codified under -- they're still laws which allow for unlawful transfer of property. Speaking of unlawful transfer of property, a couple of days ago my son made an interesting observation. He said that

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Jon Spencer
But how do you know that then is not now? Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: Maybe. But that will be then. This is now, and we're to listen to the counsel we're given now. Jim Cobabe wrote: One party rule will eventually fulfil the prophetic vision of early Church leaders. There will be only one

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Jon Spencer
Party animal! Jon Stacy Smith wrote: In my opinion the more parties the better. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Rick Mathis
At 07:25 AM 11/12/2002 -0800, Doug wrote: Yup, us bad old Utah Mormons.. Don't be redundant. Rick Mathis // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Jon Spencer
I have heard that one of the most profitable times for Dominos in Provo is the 12 am shift on Monday morning. Jon Paul Osborne wrote: I've snuck out a few times over the years and it makes me feel guilty. But, when I've gone shopping after midnight (Monday morning) my conscience is as clear

Re: [ZION] One party rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Marc A. Schindler
In effect we've struck a devil's bargain -- raw materials and geography in turn for huddling under your nuclear umbrella, so your son's actually not far off the mark. John W. Redelfs wrote: After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: I don't care whose watch they were codified

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-12 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I give up. You have indeed trapped me in a time warp. Just don't mess up the 31st century, where I come from. Jon Spencer wrote: But how do you know that then is not now? Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: Maybe. But that will be then. This is now, and we're to listen to the counsel we're

[ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-11 Thread Steven Montgomery
Perhaps Marc should ask himself the question why Utah appears to be dominated by one party politics. Perhaps Utah just leads the way in setting trends. The following analysis of our recent elections comes from www.citizenslobby.com: Quote AMERICA MOVES RIGHTWARD To the chagrin of the liberal

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-11 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I guess I should repost the interview with Pres. Marlin K. Jensen after all. This is the interview where he discusses and clarifies a letter that had been sent out to stake presidents to be read in all wards in at least the United States. One party domination is in direct defiance of the Brethren.

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-11 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 04:11 PM 11/11/2002, Marc wrote: Here in Utah in part I think it's related to the fact that the Democratic Party has in the last 20 years waned to the point where it really is almost not a factor in our political life right now. And I think there is a feeling that that is not healthy

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-11 Thread Stacy Smith
Very good! Stacy. At 04:11 PM 11/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: I guess I should repost the interview with Pres. Marlin K. Jensen after all. This is the interview where he discusses and clarifies a letter that had been sent out to stake presidents to be read in all wards in at least the United

RE: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-11 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Marc- One party domination is in direct defiance of the Brethren. Defiance? Institutions are not capable of defiance, only individuals. Which individuals do you believe are in defiance of the Brethren? The leaders of the Republican party in Utah? Any Utah Republicans? Any LDS Republicans?

RE: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-11 Thread Jim Cobabe
One party rule will eventually fulfil the prophetic vision of early Church leaders. There will be only one party that follows the Lord. Everyone else will follow the adversary. Ultimately this is the only partisan association that matters. While this may not be the pattern for this day,

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-11 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: I guess I should repost the interview with Pres. Marlin K. Jensen after all. This is the interview where he discusses and clarifies a letter that had been sent out to stake presidents to be read in all wards in at least the United States.

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-11 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Steven Montgomery wrote: At 04:11 PM 11/11/2002, Marc wrote: Here in Utah in part I think it's related to the fact that the Democratic Party has in the last 20 years waned to the point where it really is almost not a factor in our political life right now. And I think there is a

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-11 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Marc- One party domination is in direct defiance of the Brethren. Defiance? Institutions are not capable of defiance, only individuals. Which individuals do you believe are in defiance of the Brethren? Well, for starters the Republican congressman who publicly

Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-11 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Maybe. But that will be then. This is now, and we're to listen to the counsel we're given now. Jim Cobabe wrote: One party rule will eventually fulfil the prophetic vision of early Church leaders. There will be only one party that follows the Lord. Everyone else will follow the adversary.

RE: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-11 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Marc- [Previously] One party domination is in direct defiance of the Brethren. [Now] Also, you've missed a quite legitimate parsing of my sentence. When one says x is in defiance of y, that implies that belief in x is in defiance of y. Okay, that's reasonable. I don't agree with it, but

RE: [ZION] One Party Rule?

2002-11-11 Thread Jim Cobabe
I understand that the Church does not endorse any political policy, except in cases where a moral issue is involved. There is a strong effort to avoid the suggestion that the platform of a particular political party represents or has the unilateral backing of the Church. This has been the