Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-22 Thread Paul Osborne
Jim, I just read your post to my wife and she told me to tell you that you are her hero and she has a crush on you now! She studies mental illness very seriously. What an excellent post! Paul O On Thu, 21 Nov 2002 18:58:46 + Jim Cobabe [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My regular diatribe on

Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-22 Thread Paul Osborne
It was brought up in a larger discussion about the number of people in the ward suffering from depression, and the church's change to being more supportive of people using drugs to overcome it. Yep. I'm a big goof and shoot my mouth off all the time and tell people about my problems to members

Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-22 Thread Stacy Smith
Add to this mess people whose families are controlling and a society that does not care about that and you have a recipe for psychological anxiety-producing events of such a magnitude we haven't seen in past ages. Stacy. At 06:42 AM 11/22/2002 -0600, you wrote: It was brought up in a larger

RE: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-22 Thread Stacy Smith
Well, how many of them are diagnosed with true ADHD? Stacy. At 03:01 PM 11/21/2002 -0700, you wrote: Dan R Allen wrote: --- This very subject came up in a meeting I attended recently, and a statistic was thrown out that I found rather shocking: 40% of missionaries from North America are

Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-22 Thread Stacy Smith
Unfortunately, I cannot use today's type drugs. They cause severe itching. I have had to resort to 20-year-old discovered medicines. Stacy. At 12:09 PM 11/21/2002 -0700, you wrote: Gary: The Church's official position is that we should use some caution with medications for mental

RE: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-22 Thread Stacy Smith
My first observation still stands. :Even though we feel we need some of these chemicals, does it limit personal revelation? I wasn't trying to ridicule, only trying to figure out whether or not these things would limit our ability to get personal revelation. Stacy. At 06:58 PM 11/21/2002

Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-22 Thread Paul Osborne
My first observation still stands. :Even though we feel we need some of these chemicals, does it limit personal revelation? I wasn't trying to ridicule, only trying to figure out whether or not these things would limit our ability to get personal revelation. Personal revelation without

Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-22 Thread Dan R Allen
Stacy: Add to this mess people whose families are controlling and a society that does not care about that and you have a recipe for psychological anxiety-producing events of such a magnitude we haven't seen in past ages. Dan: Right. So what can the church do to help individuals and families

RE: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-22 Thread Dan R Allen
Stacy: Well, how many of them are diagnosed with true ADHD? Dan: I think that is part of the issue. Without going to the expense of sending every missionary so diagnosed to a recognized specialist, the church needs to accept the decision of the missionary's family doctor. But how was that

Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-22 Thread Stacy Smith
There should definitely be concern, and I don't think enough is being done. I think part of the problem comes because not enough steps are being taken to find out when family domination becomes unrighteous. Stacy. At 03:57 PM 11/22/2002 -0700, you wrote: Stacy: Add to this mess people

Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-22 Thread Jon Spencer
Let's face it - there are bigots of all kinds in the world. As you point out, mental illness is often a physical deficiency that affects the mechanisms of the brain. My mother was mentally ill most of her life, and we suffered greatly for it. Near her death (heart failure resulting from an

RE: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-21 Thread Jim Cobabe
My regular diatribe on this question-- Those of us who now need or have needed psychotrophic drugs for personal maintenance face serious enough challenges in life, without having to contend with unqualified people who presume to know all about our illnesses and afflictions. And sadly, there

Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-21 Thread Dan R Allen
Gary: The Church's official position is that we should use some caution with medications for mental illness. However, it has drastically backed off from some statements made by General Authorities even 20 years or less ago. Elder Packer had a speech (Be Ye Not Troubled), where he warned about

Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-21 Thread Paul Osborne
Dan: This very subject came up in a meeting I attended recently, and a statistic was thrown out that I found rather shocking: 40% of missionaries from North America are supposably on Ritalyn. Has anyone else heard this? All three of my kids take it. I couldn't even begin to list all the

Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-21 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Jim Cobabe wrote: My regular diatribe on this question-- Those of us who now need or have needed psychotrophic drugs for personal maintenance face serious enough challenges in life, without having to contend with unqualified people who presume to know all about our illnesses and

RE: [ZION] Something else to ponder

2002-11-21 Thread Jim Cobabe
Dan R Allen wrote: --- This very subject came up in a meeting I attended recently, and a statistic was thrown out that I found rather shocking: 40% of missionaries from North America are supposably on Ritalyn. Has anyone else heard this? --- It seems more likely that this report is conflated

Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder

2002-11-20 Thread Sandy and Melinda Rabinowitz
--- From: Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- I sometimes feel that I have too many regrets about past misdeeds to be able to enter the celestial kingdom even when I have repented of them. --- Jon Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Satan apparently has done a job on you. Don't you believe

Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder

2002-11-20 Thread Paul Osborne
On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:55:36 -0600 Sandy and Melinda Rabinowitz I want to agree with you totally, but I can relate to what Stacy is speaking of. For while I try not to think about sin, every so often I trip upon it--sometimes in much the same way that someone might step on a land mine.

Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder

2002-11-20 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Paul Osborne wrote: I'm just the opposite. When I repent and follow the gospel plan my sins become history. Yer lucky. When I repent, my sins become part of my wife's history. ducking [Mom, you'll never believe what he did] [actually, that's not true, I'm just throwing off

RE: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder

2002-11-19 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Stacy- I've long suspected that psychoactive drugs, while helping someone to feel better, also lessens perception of personal revelation. Am I right? I'm no authority on the matter, but I believe you are. As a general rule, it seems transparently obvious to me that altering one's brain

RE: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder

2002-11-19 Thread Stacy Smith
The question then remains: Can we legitimately use substances which would lower our anxiety level, especially if those substances are said to be nonaddictive? Stacy. At 05:52 PM 11/19/2002 +, you wrote: -Stacy- I've long suspected that psychoactive drugs, while helping someone to feel

Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder

2002-11-19 Thread Wayne and Sandra Riner
You know something I think of alot and wonder if any of y`all do is that Joseph Smith would not even drink the whiskey they tried to give him to dull the pain when they worked on his leg, do we rely on medicine instead of priesthood blessings and our Heavenly Father too much? Just wondered what

Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder

2002-11-19 Thread Paul Osborne
do we rely on medicine instead of priesthood blessings and our Heavenly Father too much? The Lord gave mankind the power to invent and find ways to help us with our problems outside the bounds of prayers and blessings. Millions of people who don't believe in prayer and blessings are reaping the

Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder

2002-11-19 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Amen. Stewardship over the Earth means to learn how to use what's here to improve our lives, imo. Paul Osborne wrote: do we rely on medicine instead of priesthood blessings and our Heavenly Father too much? The Lord gave mankind the power to invent and find ways to help us with our problems

Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder

2002-11-19 Thread Jon Spencer
to shake you out of it! Jon - Original Message - From: Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 1:49 AM Subject: RE: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder I sometimes feel that I have too many regrets about past misdeeds to be able to enter

Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder

2002-11-19 Thread Stacy Smith
PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 1:49 AM Subject: RE: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder I sometimes feel that I have too many regrets about past misdeeds to be able to enter the celestial kingdom even when I have repented of them. Stacy. At 12:31 AM 11/18/2002 +, you wrote: Stacy

Re: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder

2002-11-17 Thread Marc A. Schindler
This is an intriguing question that has interested people since antiquity. There's a very strange story about John Strugnell, an extremely controversial personality who was one of the first people to publish his translation of the DSS, namely the Copper Scroll, or Treasure Scroll. He was quite

RE: [ZION] Something Else To Ponder

2002-11-17 Thread Jim Cobabe
Stacy Smith wrote: --- I've long suspected that psychoactive drugs, while helping someone to feel better, also lessens perception of personal revelation. Am I right? --- We can experience genuine spiritual manifestations that are a result of the power and direct influence of God. Many make