Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
Piles of flowers. I say amen to this proposal and suggest that we think of a way to get the word out to enough people to make it so. "Hi, Lonnie. Still acting as silly as ever, well good luck to you the Lord loves you in spite of your foolishness. Here's a flower to make you feel better. See you next year." Say that enough times and the effect might just be magical. George - Original Message - From: "Rusty Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter? > When I first heard of this incident, my gut reaction was anger and disgust > at the streetpreachers. However, as I thought of it, I told Bob that what > should be done at the next Conference (figuring that they will be there > again, being offensive again) is everyone going to Conference should buy a > single flower - one per person - and tape a message to the stem, saying, > "The Lord loves you.". Then, walk by these people on purpose and lay the > flower at their feet and smile sweetly at them. Can you imagine these > people with mound of tens of thousands of flowers around them?! Let them > be the irrational ones. Let us rise above it and be the examples of > Christ. That would be something to take a picture of, wouldn't it? > > I don't know if the media would pick it up, but one can only hope. Even if > they didn't, it would be very satisfying to know that we didn't descend to > their level. And, as has been noted, the Lord will deal with them in His > own time. We just need to be patient enough to let Him do that. As > offensive as it is to see someone desecrating temple garments, the garments > themselves aren't what is sacred - they are a symbol of our devotion to > God. But they only have any real significance when actually worn by > someone that is true to the covenants made with God. > > Rusty > > >Well, here I might agree with you. If your going to do it, a full swing > >with a large print quad in a tote would do a lot of damage, and might be > >worth it. It might make them think twice before doing their disgusting > >thing. > > > >On the other hand, I think that what should happen at the next conference is > >for everyone who passes - I mean EVERYONE - to stop, smile, say hello, shake > >their hand, pat their back, etc. NOTHING in this world would irritate them > >more than this. Can you say apoplectic stroke??? I knew you could! > > > >Jon > > > > ** >"There are no coincidences, only small miracles." Author Unknown > > ** > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
When I first heard of this incident, my gut reaction was anger and disgust at the streetpreachers. However, as I thought of it, I told Bob that what should be done at the next Conference (figuring that they will be there again, being offensive again) is everyone going to Conference should buy a single flower - one per person - and tape a message to the stem, saying, "The Lord loves you.". Then, walk by these people on purpose and lay the flower at their feet and smile sweetly at them. Can you imagine these people with mound of tens of thousands of flowers around them?! Let them be the irrational ones. Let us rise above it and be the examples of Christ. That would be something to take a picture of, wouldn't it? I don't know if the media would pick it up, but one can only hope. Even if they didn't, it would be very satisfying to know that we didn't descend to their level. And, as has been noted, the Lord will deal with them in His own time. We just need to be patient enough to let Him do that. As offensive as it is to see someone desecrating temple garments, the garments themselves aren't what is sacred - they are a symbol of our devotion to God. But they only have any real significance when actually worn by someone that is true to the covenants made with God. Rusty >Well, here I might agree with you. If your going to do it, a full swing >with a large print quad in a tote would do a lot of damage, and might be >worth it. It might make them think twice before doing their disgusting >thing. > >On the other hand, I think that what should happen at the next conference is >for everyone who passes - I mean EVERYONE - to stop, smile, say hello, shake >their hand, pat their back, etc. NOTHING in this world would irritate them >more than this. Can you say apoplectic stroke??? I knew you could! > >Jon > ** "There are no coincidences, only small miracles." Author Unknown ** // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
Dear fellow Zioners-- with all these postings about "breaking the charter?"-- have we broken it yet? Bob Taylor >Well, here I might agree with you. If your going to do it, a full swing >with a large print quad in a tote would do a lot of damage, and might be >worth it. It might make them think twice before doing their disgusting >thing. > >On the other hand, I think that what should happen at the next conference is >for everyone who passes - I mean EVERYONE - to stop, smile, say hello, shake >their hand, pat their back, etc. NOTHING in this world would irritate them >more than this. Can you say apoplectic stroke??? I knew you could! > >Jon > >- Original Message - >From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 11:45 AM >Subject: Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter? > > >> Jon Spencer wrote: >> >In the US, their actions are protected speech. While the actions of the >two >> >members in response to this provocation are understandable from an >emotional >> >point of view, the members who took the garments away probably exercised >> >poor judgment. We are not a people of martyrs. We have endured many >things >> >and hope to endure all things. In my opinion, there are many better ways >to >> >spend one's time serving the Lord than dealing with a theft charge. >> >> I personally think an assault and battery charge would have been more >> appropriate. And one could wear the jail time as a badge of honor. --JWR >> >> > >// >> /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// >> /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// >> > >/ >> >> >> >> >> > >// >/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// >/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// >/ ** "There are no coincidences, only small miracles." Author Unknown ** // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
Well, here I might agree with you. If your going to do it, a full swing with a large print quad in a tote would do a lot of damage, and might be worth it. It might make them think twice before doing their disgusting thing. On the other hand, I think that what should happen at the next conference is for everyone who passes - I mean EVERYONE - to stop, smile, say hello, shake their hand, pat their back, etc. NOTHING in this world would irritate them more than this. Can you say apoplectic stroke??? I knew you could! Jon - Original Message - From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 11:45 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter? > Jon Spencer wrote: > >In the US, their actions are protected speech. While the actions of the two > >members in response to this provocation are understandable from an emotional > >point of view, the members who took the garments away probably exercised > >poor judgment. We are not a people of martyrs. We have endured many things > >and hope to endure all things. In my opinion, there are many better ways to > >spend one's time serving the Lord than dealing with a theft charge. > > I personally think an assault and battery charge would have been more > appropriate. And one could wear the jail time as a badge of honor. --JWR > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
My friends, I concern myself little about the fools who mock the truth. Their time is limited, they will wither away like the summer grass, and the truth will still be strong. One of the side effects naysayers unwittingly cause is raising the level of public awareness about the Church. Certainly most who read of such evil and unwarranted acts will be sympathetic to the Church. This may create opportunites for the Gospel to reach some who would never otherwise be receptive. People who attempt to desecrate sacred temple garments little understand the nature of sacred things. As I see it, my use of temple clothing is a symbol representing the covenants I have made with Heavenly Father in the temple. The garment is a token, not a magical talisman. It has no special temporal or spiritual properties in and of itself. It is a physical reminder to me that the power of God is a constant protection and shield from worldly encroachments, as I remain faithful. In the hands of unbelievers, temple garments are not different from other pieces of clothing. Those who seek to blaspheme sacred beliefs are simply heaping coals upon their own heads. Their acts of attempted desecration are not worthy of note. They are apparently not possessed of sufficient intelligence to be suitably embarrassed about such foolery. In truth, such gross misunderstanding as exhibited by these malicious evil doers gives us all the more reason to value our own sacred relationship with Heavenly Father. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
At 09:18 PM 10/15/03 -0400, Noel B wrote: Not that I would want to minimize what happened with sidewalk sleeze, but I would take it over marching into the Roman Coliseum to face the lions... "And now in sports, this late score from the Coliseum: Lions 39, Saints 0" [we now return you to your regularly-scheduled substantive discussion . . .] -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
At 06:45 PM 10/15/2003, you wrote: Friends, I am angered by the total lack of respect these people had for anothers faith. The behavior described is obnoxious and also unacceptable. I Pray that the perpetrators find God and see what they have done to hurt people of faith. Pax et Bonum, John A.E., n/OEF Thanks John. That means a lot coming from you, of another faith. -- Steven Montgomery [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Editor, The Constitutional Broadside Newsletter http://www.thecbn.net // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
Not that I would want to minimize what happened with sidewalk sleeze, but I would take it over marching into the Roman Coliseum to face the lions... Been reading Foxe's Book of Martyrs and it wasn't a picnic. Noel >-Original Message- >From: John A. English, n/OEF [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 8:45 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: [ZION] Breaking the charter? > > >Friends, > > I am angered by the total lack of respect these people >had for anothers faith. The behavior described is obnoxious >and also unacceptable. I Pray that the perpetrators find God >and see what they have done to hurt people of faith. > > >Pax et Bonum, > >John A.E., n/OEF > > > >> -Original Message- >> From: Paul Osborne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 7:42 AM >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter? >> >> >> Dear ones, >> I received the following by email. It probably violates the >> charter for me to forward it... but does anyone know the truth of >> this? I am incensed! === >> >> >> Yep, I read about it. The political correct police action showed its >> true colors. Brigham Young is rolling in his grave shaking his fist. >> This sort of behavior should be met with swift action and opposition >> by the >> saints-- if you ask me. >> >> Paul O >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno >SpeedBand! Surf the >> web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com >> to sign up today! >> >> // >> >> /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// >> /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// >> // >> /// >> > >/// >/// >/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// >/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// >/// >// > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
Friends, I am angered by the total lack of respect these people had for anothers faith. The behavior described is obnoxious and also unacceptable. I Pray that the perpetrators find God and see what they have done to hurt people of faith. Pax et Bonum, John A.E., n/OEF > -Original Message- > From: Paul Osborne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 7:42 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter? > > > Dear ones, > I received the following by email. It probably violates the charter > for me to forward it... but does anyone know the truth of this? I am > incensed! > === > > > Yep, I read about it. The political correct police action showed its true > colors. Brigham Young is rolling in his grave shaking his fist. This sort > of behavior should be met with swift action and opposition by the > saints-- if you ask me. > > Paul O > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > // > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > // > /// > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
I have heard that it *is* true, unfortunately. I wouldn't want to be any of those Baptist dudes when the time comes that they have to account for their actions... Heidi > [Original Message] > From: Grampa Bill in Savannah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 10/15/2003 6:27:31 AM > Subject: [ZION] Breaking the charter? > > Dear ones, > I received the following by email. It probably violates the charter > for me to forward it... but does anyone know the truth of this? I am > incensed! > === > HOW ABOUT TOLERANCE FOR ALL? > > Some Muslims wear sacred clothing. So do some Jews. The same for > Native Americans and some Hindus and others. Bits of cloth or string > that are physical reminders of God and his bond > with man. Sacred things, really, prayer shawls or beads, head > coverings or aprons, medicine bags. Things that are special to people, > honorable and good things. > > Things that should be respected. > > One would not, for example, rip the yarmulke from a Jewish man's head > and mockingly fling it like a Frisbee. Nor would you wear a yarmulke as > a spoof or joke. Certainly not as an attack on Judaism. Not as a > mockery of Jews and their faith. > > Yet something like that happened this weekend. In front of thousands > of people in one of America's great cities. An act of religious > desecration, bigotry and discrimination. And the perpetrators boast of > it to the press. It was in Salt Lake City. And it was against Mormons. > And somehow that makes it acceptable. > > Here's what happened. Over the weekend, Mormons gathered for what they > call "general conference." It is a twice-a-year meeting that draws tens > of thousands to Salt Lake City and is broadcast around the world to an > audience in the low millions. It is a worship service. It is sacred and > special to them. And each year it is protested. > > So-called Christian evangelists stand on the sidewalk outside the > Mormon meetings and shout rude condemnations of the religion to the > thousands who pass in and out. It is an odd spectacle, unmatched in > American society. To think that crude protesters would stand outside a > mosque or synagogue, or a cathedral or church, and harass worshipers and > denounce a religion is just beyond the pale. > > It is an act of indefensible religious bigotry. And yet it happens, > and is often applauded and boasted of. > > This column started with a mention of sacred clothing. Well, Mormons > have sacred clothing, too. Like a variety of religious garments, it is > worn against the skin. It is a type of underclothing. They don't talk > about it. They don't show it to people. They keep it sacred. Like > virtually all-religious clothing, it is a specific reminder of promises > made to God. Like virtually all religious clothing, it is precious and > significant to the people who wear it. > > Well, Sunday the evangelists had some. Maybe six guys, Baptist > ministers, mocking the Mormons as they came out of a meeting. Shouting > rude things to people coming out of church. And they had these sacred > garments. And one supposed minister of the gospel was wiping his > backside with them, laughingly treating them like toilet paper as > thousands who held them sacred walked by. > > Can you see that being done to a prayer shawl in front of a Synagogue, > or a prayer rug in front of a mosque? Wouldn't all decent people > publicly denounce that sacrilege? > > He also draped them around his neck, and pretended over and over to > sneeze into them. And loudly blow his nose into them. While families and > children walked past. > > Stop for a moment. > > Lay aside what you do or don't think about Mormons. But was that right? > > More to the point, was that Christian? Is that what Jesus would do? Is > that what any decent person of any faith would do? Absolutely not. It > is wrong, bigoted and un-American. No matter who it's against. > > It was an affront. It smelled like the bigotry of the Klan and the > Third Reich. And yet the ministers boasted of it to reporters and posed > for pictures and no one in the Utah or American religious, media or > civil rights communities has condemned it. > > And, oddly, two worshipers were taken away in handcuffs. One man, > dressed in his church clothes, walked past in the crowd, saw the insults > and desecrations, and grabbed the piece of clothing. To protect it. He > was charged with robbery and taken to jail. Half an hour later another > worshiper similarly grabbed a molested garment and attempted to take it > away. He was unsuccessful and waiting police stepped in to take him into > custody. > > And that's the world we live in. You are harangued for your beliefs and > arrested for defending them. And the bigotry of our society is > illustrated by how selectively we practic
Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:04:07 -0400 Grampa Bill in Savannah > Grampa Bill answers: > I am incensed at the initial act of bigotry and blasphemy. I am > > further incensed that the police arrested my brethren. There are > times > when a quick run to the nearest Krispy Kreme is appropriate. This > was > such a time. In my mind I can hear 37 radio calls to the comm center > > simultaneously, "I'm ten-seven at Dunkin' Donuts!" > And while we're on the subject, where are the Danites when you > really need 'em? > Love y'all, > Grampa Bill in Savannah The only reason why these attacks are permitted is because people and organizations (including the Church) are afraid of getting sued. It's all about wicked lawyers, judges, and money. The lawyers and judges have ruined this country. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
OK, I thought that you were upset with the writer, Bob Lonsberry. The rest I understand. George - Original Message - From: "Grampa Bill in Savannah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 2:04 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter? > George Cobabe wrote: > > >What are you incensed about? Is it the fact of the essay or the conclusion reached??? > > > > > Grampa Bill answers: > I am incensed at the initial act of bigotry and blasphemy. I am > further incensed that the police arrested my brethren. There are times > when a quick run to the nearest Krispy Kreme is appropriate. This was > such a time. In my mind I can hear 37 radio calls to the comm center > simultaneously, "I'm ten-seven at Dunkin' Donuts!" > And while we're on the subject, where are the Danites when you > really need 'em? > Love y'all, > Grampa Bill in Savannah > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
George Cobabe wrote: What are you incensed about? Is it the fact of the essay or the conclusion reached??? Grampa Bill answers: I am incensed at the initial act of bigotry and blasphemy. I am further incensed that the police arrested my brethren. There are times when a quick run to the nearest Krispy Kreme is appropriate. This was such a time. In my mind I can hear 37 radio calls to the comm center simultaneously, "I'm ten-seven at Dunkin' Donuts!" And while we're on the subject, where are the Danites when you really need 'em? Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
John W. Redelfs wrote: > > Jon Spencer wrote: > >In the US, their actions are protected speech. While the actions of the > >two > >members in response to this provocation are understandable from an > >emotional > >point of view, the members who took the garments away probably exercised > >poor judgment. We are not a people of martyrs. We have endured many > >things > >and hope to endure all things. In my opinion, there are many better > >ways to > >spend one's time serving the Lord than dealing with a theft charge. > > I personally think an assault and battery charge would have been more > appropriate. And one could wear the jail time as a badge of honor. > --JWR > > > I was at the Priesthood session with my sons. We saw and heard the protesters. We didn't see the actions described in the essay, but heard about them on the Sunday evening news in SLC. We saw protesters surrounded by many church members who were signing church hymns. The things I miss out on by living in California (then again, we have our own problems) The story goes deeper...there is a group of NON-LDS citizens in SLC who have organized for the purpose of protesting against the anti-Mormon protestors. They've committed to be outside of the conference center again in April. How's that for ironic?? The "ring-leader" of this group was on the news. He, and others, are tired of ignorant people protesting against the Mormons at conference. I imagine the confrontations will only escalate until something severe happens. . // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
Jon Spencer wrote: In the US, their actions are protected speech. While the actions of the two members in response to this provocation are understandable from an emotional point of view, the members who took the garments away probably exercised poor judgment. We are not a people of martyrs. We have endured many things and hope to endure all things. In my opinion, there are many better ways to spend one's time serving the Lord than dealing with a theft charge. I personally think an assault and battery charge would have been more appropriate. And one could wear the jail time as a badge of honor. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
The streetpreachers belong to an organization whose entire object is to harrass those who disagree with them. Check out Streetpreachers.com or something close to that. They openly declare that the truth is not important, after all we are going to Hell anyway so truth is irrelevant. George - Original Message - From: "Jon Spencer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 6:44 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter? > Whether this happened or did not happen, it certainly could have and has in > other places. One example is that some missionaries, short on time, took > their laundry to a local cleaners (bad decision #1). The owner kept a pair > of garments and displayed them in the window (bad decision #2) and would not > give them back to the missionaries (bad decision #3). The Mission President > went over and had a private conversation with the owner and got the garments > back (good decision #1, which trumped all the bad decisions). The MP set a > new rule (guess what?, and good decision #2). > > The "ministers" out in front of GC are not Christians. They are clearly > servants of Satan. Their actions should have been decried by anyone of good > faith. > > In the US, their actions are protected speech. While the actions of the two > members in response to this provocation are understandable from an emotional > point of view, the members who took the garments away probably exercised > poor judgment. We are not a people of martyrs. We have endured many things > and hope to endure all things. In my opinion, there are many better ways to > spend one's time serving the Lord than dealing with a theft charge. > > On the other hand, I hope that I would have been able to ignore these idiot > servants of Satan! > > Jon > > - Original Message - > From: "Grampa Bill in Savannah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 7:27 AM > Subject: [ZION] Breaking the charter? > > > > Dear ones, > > I received the following by email. It probably violates the charter > > for me to forward it... but does anyone know the truth of this? I am > > incensed! > > === > > HOW ABOUT TOLERANCE FOR ALL? > > > > Some Muslims wear sacred clothing. So do some Jews. The same for > > Native Americans and some Hindus and others. Bits of cloth or string > > that are physical reminders of God and his bond > > with man. Sacred things, really, prayer shawls or beads, head > > coverings or aprons, medicine bags. Things that are special to people, > > honorable and good things. > > > > Things that should be respected. > > > > One would not, for example, rip the yarmulke from a Jewish man's head > > and mockingly fling it like a Frisbee. Nor would you wear a yarmulke as > > a spoof or joke. Certainly not as an attack on Judaism. Not as a > > mockery of Jews and their faith. > > > > Yet something like that happened this weekend. In front of thousands > > of people in one of America's great cities. An act of religious > > desecration, bigotry and discrimination. And the perpetrators boast of > > it to the press. It was in Salt Lake City. And it was against Mormons. > > And somehow that makes it acceptable. > > > > Here's what happened. Over the weekend, Mormons gathered for what they > > call "general conference." It is a twice-a-year meeting that draws tens > > of thousands to Salt Lake City and is broadcast around the world to an > > audience in the low millions. It is a worship service. It is sacred and > > special to them. And each year it is protested. > > > > So-called Christian evangelists stand on the sidewalk outside the > > Mormon meetings and shout rude condemnations of the religion to the > > thousands who pass in and out. It is an odd spectacle, unmatched in > > American society. To think that crude protesters would stand outside a > > mosque or synagogue, or a cathedral or church, and harass worshipers and > > denounce a religion is just beyond the pale. > > > > It is an act of indefensible religious bigotry. And yet it happens, > > and is often applauded and boasted of. > > > > This column started with a mention of sacred clothing. Well, Mormons > > have sacred clothing, too. Like a variety of religious garments, it is > > worn against the skin. It is a type of underclothing. They don't talk > > about it. They don't show it to people. They keep it sacred. Like &g
Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
Bob Lonsberry is a radio personality with an early morning talk show in Utah and New York. He lives and works out of Rodchester, NY and simultcasts to both markets for part of the show. What are you incensed about? Is it the fact of the essay or the conclusion reached??? I thought it a good and thoughtful piece that expresses a very valid point. George - Original Message - From: "Grampa Bill in Savannah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 5:27 AM Subject: [ZION] Breaking the charter? > Dear ones, > I received the following by email. It probably violates the charter > for me to forward it... but does anyone know the truth of this? I am > incensed! > === > HOW ABOUT TOLERANCE FOR ALL? > > Some Muslims wear sacred clothing. So do some Jews. The same for > Native Americans and some Hindus and others. Bits of cloth or string > that are physical reminders of God and his bond > with man. Sacred things, really, prayer shawls or beads, head > coverings or aprons, medicine bags. Things that are special to people, > honorable and good things. > > Things that should be respected. > > One would not, for example, rip the yarmulke from a Jewish man's head > and mockingly fling it like a Frisbee. Nor would you wear a yarmulke as > a spoof or joke. Certainly not as an attack on Judaism. Not as a > mockery of Jews and their faith. > > Yet something like that happened this weekend. In front of thousands > of people in one of America's great cities. An act of religious > desecration, bigotry and discrimination. And the perpetrators boast of > it to the press. It was in Salt Lake City. And it was against Mormons. > And somehow that makes it acceptable. > > Here's what happened. Over the weekend, Mormons gathered for what they > call "general conference." It is a twice-a-year meeting that draws tens > of thousands to Salt Lake City and is broadcast around the world to an > audience in the low millions. It is a worship service. It is sacred and > special to them. And each year it is protested. > > So-called Christian evangelists stand on the sidewalk outside the > Mormon meetings and shout rude condemnations of the religion to the > thousands who pass in and out. It is an odd spectacle, unmatched in > American society. To think that crude protesters would stand outside a > mosque or synagogue, or a cathedral or church, and harass worshipers and > denounce a religion is just beyond the pale. > > It is an act of indefensible religious bigotry. And yet it happens, > and is often applauded and boasted of. > > This column started with a mention of sacred clothing. Well, Mormons > have sacred clothing, too. Like a variety of religious garments, it is > worn against the skin. It is a type of underclothing. They don't talk > about it. They don't show it to people. They keep it sacred. Like > virtually all-religious clothing, it is a specific reminder of promises > made to God. Like virtually all religious clothing, it is precious and > significant to the people who wear it. > > Well, Sunday the evangelists had some. Maybe six guys, Baptist > ministers, mocking the Mormons as they came out of a meeting. Shouting > rude things to people coming out of church. And they had these sacred > garments. And one supposed minister of the gospel was wiping his > backside with them, laughingly treating them like toilet paper as > thousands who held them sacred walked by. > > Can you see that being done to a prayer shawl in front of a Synagogue, > or a prayer rug in front of a mosque? Wouldn't all decent people > publicly denounce that sacrilege? > > He also draped them around his neck, and pretended over and over to > sneeze into them. And loudly blow his nose into them. While families and > children walked past. > > Stop for a moment. > > Lay aside what you do or don't think about Mormons. But was that right? > > More to the point, was that Christian? Is that what Jesus would do? Is > that what any decent person of any faith would do? Absolutely not. It > is wrong, bigoted and un-American. No matter who it's against. > > It was an affront. It smelled like the bigotry of the Klan and the > Third Reich. And yet the ministers boasted of it to reporters and posed > for pictures and no one in the Utah or American religious, media or > civil rights communities has condemned it. > > And, oddly, two worshipers were taken away in handcuffs. One man, > dressed in his church clothes, walked past in the crowd, saw the insults > and desecrations, and grabbed the piece of clothing. To protect it. He > was charged with robbery and taken to jail. Half an hour later another > worshiper similarly grabbed a molested garment and attempted to take it > away. He was unsuccessful and waiting police stepped in to take him into > custody. > > And that'
Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
Dear ones, I received the following by email. It probably violates the charter for me to forward it... but does anyone know the truth of this? I am incensed! === Yep, I read about it. The political correct police action showed its true colors. Brigham Young is rolling in his grave shaking his fist. This sort of behavior should be met with swift action and opposition by the saints-- if you ask me. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Breaking the charter?
Whether this happened or did not happen, it certainly could have and has in other places. One example is that some missionaries, short on time, took their laundry to a local cleaners (bad decision #1). The owner kept a pair of garments and displayed them in the window (bad decision #2) and would not give them back to the missionaries (bad decision #3). The Mission President went over and had a private conversation with the owner and got the garments back (good decision #1, which trumped all the bad decisions). The MP set a new rule (guess what?, and good decision #2). The "ministers" out in front of GC are not Christians. They are clearly servants of Satan. Their actions should have been decried by anyone of good faith. In the US, their actions are protected speech. While the actions of the two members in response to this provocation are understandable from an emotional point of view, the members who took the garments away probably exercised poor judgment. We are not a people of martyrs. We have endured many things and hope to endure all things. In my opinion, there are many better ways to spend one's time serving the Lord than dealing with a theft charge. On the other hand, I hope that I would have been able to ignore these idiot servants of Satan! Jon - Original Message - From: "Grampa Bill in Savannah" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 7:27 AM Subject: [ZION] Breaking the charter? > Dear ones, > I received the following by email. It probably violates the charter > for me to forward it... but does anyone know the truth of this? I am > incensed! > === > HOW ABOUT TOLERANCE FOR ALL? > > Some Muslims wear sacred clothing. So do some Jews. The same for > Native Americans and some Hindus and others. Bits of cloth or string > that are physical reminders of God and his bond > with man. Sacred things, really, prayer shawls or beads, head > coverings or aprons, medicine bags. Things that are special to people, > honorable and good things. > > Things that should be respected. > > One would not, for example, rip the yarmulke from a Jewish man's head > and mockingly fling it like a Frisbee. Nor would you wear a yarmulke as > a spoof or joke. Certainly not as an attack on Judaism. Not as a > mockery of Jews and their faith. > > Yet something like that happened this weekend. In front of thousands > of people in one of America's great cities. An act of religious > desecration, bigotry and discrimination. And the perpetrators boast of > it to the press. It was in Salt Lake City. And it was against Mormons. > And somehow that makes it acceptable. > > Here's what happened. Over the weekend, Mormons gathered for what they > call "general conference." It is a twice-a-year meeting that draws tens > of thousands to Salt Lake City and is broadcast around the world to an > audience in the low millions. It is a worship service. It is sacred and > special to them. And each year it is protested. > > So-called Christian evangelists stand on the sidewalk outside the > Mormon meetings and shout rude condemnations of the religion to the > thousands who pass in and out. It is an odd spectacle, unmatched in > American society. To think that crude protesters would stand outside a > mosque or synagogue, or a cathedral or church, and harass worshipers and > denounce a religion is just beyond the pale. > > It is an act of indefensible religious bigotry. And yet it happens, > and is often applauded and boasted of. > > This column started with a mention of sacred clothing. Well, Mormons > have sacred clothing, too. Like a variety of religious garments, it is > worn against the skin. It is a type of underclothing. They don't talk > about it. They don't show it to people. They keep it sacred. Like > virtually all-religious clothing, it is a specific reminder of promises > made to God. Like virtually all religious clothing, it is precious and > significant to the people who wear it. > > Well, Sunday the evangelists had some. Maybe six guys, Baptist > ministers, mocking the Mormons as they came out of a meeting. Shouting > rude things to people coming out of church. And they had these sacred > garments. And one supposed minister of the gospel was wiping his > backside with them, laughingly treating them like toilet paper as > thousands who held them sacred walked by. > > Can you see that being done to a prayer shawl in front of a Synagogue, > or a prayer rug in front of a mosque? Wouldn't all decent people > publicly denounce that sacrilege? > > He also draped them around his neck, and pretended over and over to > sneeze into them. And loudly blow his nose into them. While families and > children walked past. > > Stop for a moment. > > Lay aside what you do or don't think about Mormons. But was that right? > > More to the point, was that Christian
