Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-26 Thread Grampa Bill
Paul Osborne wrote: I was referring to Stake President and up. They have money and prestige. There are plenty of talented yet poor High Priests who never get the call because they don't have money. Money is a prerequisite to those callings. === Grampa Bill responds:

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-26 Thread Paul Osborne
Grampa Bill responds: I know of one SP who was a mechanic until his business went bust just before his call, He then sold house trailers for a while but was terminated because of too few sales. After a period of unemployment he want to work as a machinist for the county. I know of another who

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-24 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Paul Osborne wrote: And, yes, John gave me some good pointers. I've seen how John operates too and have watched him type letters to the list. I've seen his computer, chair, book shelves, and table. I can visualize him right now in my mind. Having trouble sleeping, are we? ducking with

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-24 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 21:43 10/23/2002 -0500, Gary wrote: The Brethren had comfortable lives because they earned a comfortable life. Not so sure I agree, Gary. Reference Approaching Zion Chapters 4 and 5. Not so sure earned is the correct choice of terms here. Till

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-24 Thread Elmer L. Fairbank
At 21:46 10/23/2002 -0500, St Paul wrote: I will admit that I used to annoyed about it in the past. Till detects that it is still unresolved But it is the Lord's church and he can do whatever he wants, so I have come to accept it. You're on the right track, though but I'm sure he had

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-24 Thread Marc A. Schindler
When I lived in Seattle, when I was 14 I got my patriarchal blessing (this was in the old Renton ward of the Seattle Stake -- there are now 2 or 3 stakes in the region that old ward covered, which dates me!). The patriarch asked me if I wouldn't please try to friendship his son, who was going

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-24 Thread Paul Osborne
Till, who hopes he hasn't offended Of course not. I'm the one around here that probably is the most offensive. When I was a kid I use to through rocks at beehives and shoot my bee bee gun at the neighbors windows. :-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
I was referring to Stake President and up. They have money and prestige. There are plenty of talented yet poor High Priests who never get the call because they don't have money. Money is a prerequisite to those callings. I hope that it doesn't sound like I am faulting the Lord. I'm simply pointing

RE: [ZION] High Priests have money -- not

2002-10-23 Thread Larry Jackson
Paul Osborne (replying to someone else): Right. And your ALSO points out that the money is required in order to get those high callings of Stake President and up. ___ I can assure you that money is not a requirement in order to be called as a stake president. I can further

RE: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Paul- The Lord will not call a poor man to be an apostle. Poor people are just not good enough for the job. You have to have money. If I remember correctly, Elder Packer spent his professional life in the CES, a job practically guaranteed to keep you dressed in rags. Stephen

RE: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Jeffrey Ross
-Original Message- From: Paul Osborne [mailto:osborne1962;juno.com] Right. And your ALSO points out that the money is required in order to get those high callings of Stake President and up. Thank you for making my point, Gary. My former stake president was a public school teacher

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money -- not

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
I can assure you that money is not a requirement in order to be called as a stake president. I followed it for years in the Church News and have clearly seen that the money guys get the callings. I can't deny those facts. The guys who get called in third world countries are the merchants and

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
My former stake president was a public school teacher and later an administrator and my current stake president is in a similar income bracket. Both of them are most likely below the 50th percentile with regard to income within the stake boundaries. How can you justify statements like that,

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread vicgh25
Will we ever see a janitor, a manual laborer, a machinist, a farmer, a rancher, as an apostle? To test this out - what are the current or former occupations of the apostles? Its interesting that a carpenter ended up saving mankind. Vic --- Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't

RE: [ZION] High Priests have money -- not

2002-10-23 Thread Larry Jackson
Paul Osborne: I can assure you that money is not a requirement in order to be called as a stake president. I followed it for years in the Church News and have clearly seen that the money guys get the callings. I can't deny those facts. ... It's one of those unwritten rules. ;-)

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Mark Gregson
To test this out - what are the current or former occupations of the apostles? Here are some of the former occupations of all the current apostles. Neither President Hinckley nor President Packer could have become wealthy from their employment, so Paul's theory fails in those cases

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Mark Gregson wrote: To test this out - what are the current or former occupations of the apostles? Here are some of the former occupations of all the current apostles. Neither President Hinckley nor President Packer could have become wealthy from their employment, so Paul's theory fails

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread hkpage
[Original Message] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/23/2002 2:04:59 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] High Priests have money Will we ever see a janitor, a manual laborer, a machinist, a farmer, a rancher, as an apostle? To test this out - what are the current or former occupations

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money -- not

2002-10-23 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Actually in the 3rd world a larger than proportional share of line authority callings go to Church/CES employees. And, as I loved to tease Grant Johnson (I think that's his name -- the Book of Mormon Answerman who infuriated many LDS by saying that only those soldiers who fought for the Allies in

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
Here are some of the former occupations of all the current apostles. Neither President Hinckley nor President Packer could have become wealthy from their employment, so Paul's theory fails in those cases (granted, they may have made money from their books, investments, consulting fees, etc.).

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
Will we ever see a janitor, a manual laborer, a machinist, a farmer, a rancher, as an apostle? A janitor, a manual laborer, and a machinist are not qualified to become apostles but a rich rancher and a rich farmer could be considered. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Valerie Nielsen Williams
On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 18:09:51 -0500 Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Did I say that a man had to be wealthy to become a GA? The unwritten rule is that he has to have money and resources. He almost always has a prestigious job and a fine education. That is what the Lord is looking

RE: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread larry . jackson
Paul Osborne: ... to become a GA? The unwritten rule is that he has to have money and resources. He almost always has a prestigious job and a fine education. That is what the Lord is looking for. If you don't have those benefits you can't be called to be a GA, let alone a SP.

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Gary Smith wrote: You make it sound like these jobs were handed to them on a silver platter. Not so. They all started at the bottom, with no silver spoon in the mouth. Any money the GAs have, they earned it. Any education they received was from hard work. Do you think any of them had been

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread John W. Redelfs
At 08:47 AM, Wednesday, 10/23/02, Paul Osborne wrote: I was referring to Stake President and up. They have money and prestige. There are plenty of talented yet poor High Priests who never get the call because they don't have money. Money is a prerequisite to those callings. I hope that it doesn't

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
What is your definition of money? Is it $40,000? $50,000? $100,000? $1,000,000? My definition of money is when you have it in the bank and you don't owe anyone anything except perhaps the mortgage. Most school administrators I know make about $50K. So if that is your definition of money,

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread John W. Redelfs
At 12:03 PM, Wednesday, 10/23/02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Will we ever see a janitor, a manual laborer, a machinist, a farmer, a rancher, as an apostle? To test this out - what are the current or former occupations of the apostles? Its interesting that a carpenter ended up saving mankind. ---

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
I agree with everything you are saying Gary but I'm not thinking that all the GA's were born with silver spoons. I know they worked hard and got educated and have fine jobs that pay quite well. That is the nature of the man who gets the call. I am merely pointing out how the Lord does business and

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread John W. Redelfs
At 08:48 PM, Wednesday, 10/23/02, Gary Smith wrote: I would say that most apostles will have money. There are exceptions, though fewer and fewer as the Church grows. Even today, many of our apostles are not wealthy, but are comfortable. In my family comfortable is a euphemism for wealthy.

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread John W. Redelfs
At 09:43 PM, Wednesday, 10/23/02, Gary Smith wrote: There is nothing prestigious to these callings. There is some recognition, but in all reality, the pay isn't that great. Most would prefer to make it to heaven without the experience of being an apostle or stake president, but the humble ones

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
I think that Paul is being deliberately provocative in order to stir up a discussion. I coached him while he was here. grin It works pretty good, doesn't it Paul? Yep. Your s right John. I like to be provocative and stir things up. It's fun, but I would feel bad if I hurt someones

Re: [ZION] High priests have money

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:54:03 -0600 Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Okay, this is all very interesting and very useful (and I mean that sincerely), so let me ask another question: what about those of us who are unlikely, for one reason or another (assuming, of course, that we're

Re: [ZION] High priests have money

2002-10-22 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I think I see your point, even past the tongue in your cheek, and hadn't thought about that. The Lord needs a pool to draw from, and the HP are that pool, so whether any given HP is or is not eventually called to what I keep calling a posiiton of line authority (to use a secular term) is