Re: [ZION] LDS study bible
I use the Anchor Bible, which is of course much more of an investment (the series isn't finished yet and it already fills 2 1/2 shelves of one of my Ikea bookshelves). But that's a somewhat different model. I don't really have a one-volume commentary like the Scofield Bible, but iirc I've seen this in Logos, a Christian bookstore I used to frequent in Calgary, and in the Canadian Bible Society bookstore near U of Alberta here in Edmonton, and that's a good model for what we're trying to do, only from an LDS point of view. I'll give you a kind of anecdotal example of why some people think we need something like this. I have one volume of an AB-sized library of commentaries, but just the volume on I Corinthians, to help me out in my own contribution to the LDS Study Bible. The series is called The New International Greek Testament Commentary (NIGTC) and the volume on I Corinthians was written by Anthony C. Thiselton, a fairly respectable conservative Protestant scholar. The book is 1450 pp long. While he admits that 15:29 (the verse on vicarious baptism) is a notoriously difficult crux: the most 'hotly disputed' in the epistle,... he summarizes a grand total of roughly 20 possible interpretations. All *possible* interpretations, that is, except the right one, and the most direct one. This guy gets the Biblicist Pretzel Award nomination from me this year, I gotta tell you. We need stuff that, while it may not be on that level wrt scholarship (for one thing the market would be limited), at least gives LDS a basic level of understanding that the Gospel isn't only true and that the only way to know that is through spiritual means, oh by the way, it just happens to make sense, too, and you don't have to be ashamed or cowed by intellectuals. Gary Smith wrote: I don't think they are actually changing the words. What they are doing, is putting a lot of textual information on the original Aramaic and Greek, and discussing certain ideas within the NT from an LDS apologetics point of view. This one won't be to replace your LDS scriptures. This one will be for home use, where you can get a better understanding of what each verse _really_ means. So, you get the KJV, and the scholarly commentary. If you've hung out in any Christian bookstores, you'll find similar books. My favorite amongst them has been the Scofield Bible, though it is quite an older commentary. Marc, which versions do you prefer? K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] LDS study bible
I used to have (till my kids destroyed it--sadly) a fairly large comparison Bible which contained about 7 different versions (none of the modern watered down versions) of the Bible, and if I recall correctly a couple of translations from the original Hebrew and Greek. Joseph Smith once stated that he preferred the Hebrew language Bible (at least for the Old Testament as I understand that most of the New Testament was translated from Greek). Now I have studied a smattering of Hebrew and know that a lot can get left out of the translation--just as happens with just about every translation from one language to another. What I would like to see is an LDS version as close as possible to the original meaning as possible. For instance, I believe a lot of subtle nuances, idiomatic expressions, plays on words, etc., are left out of translations unless efforts are made to at least footnote and document these instances. -- Steven Montgomery At 01:36 PM 10/2/2002, you wrote: I use the Anchor Bible, which is of course much more of an investment (the series isn't finished yet and it already fills 2 1/2 shelves of one of my Ikea bookshelves). But that's a somewhat different model. I don't really have a one-volume commentary like the Scofield Bible, but iirc I've seen this in Logos, a Christian bookstore I used to frequent in Calgary, and in the Canadian Bible Society bookstore near U of Alberta here in Edmonton, and that's a good model for what we're trying to do, only from an LDS point of view. I'll give you a kind of anecdotal example of why some people think we need something like this. I have one volume of an AB-sized library of commentaries, but just the volume on I Corinthians, to help me out in my own contribution to the LDS Study Bible. The series is called The New International Greek Testament Commentary (NIGTC) and the volume on I Corinthians was written by Anthony C. Thiselton, a fairly respectable conservative Protestant scholar. The book is 1450 pp long. While he admits that 15:29 (the verse on vicarious baptism) is a notoriously difficult crux: the most 'hotly disputed' in the epistle,... he summarizes a grand total of roughly 20 possible interpretations. All *possible* interpretations, that is, except the right one, and the most direct one. This guy gets the Biblicist Pretzel Award nomination from me this year, I gotta tell you. We need stuff that, while it may not be on that level wrt scholarship (for one thing the market would be limited), at least gives LDS a basic level of understanding that the Gospel isn't only true and that the only way to know that is through spiritual means, oh by the way, it just happens to make sense, too, and you don't have to be ashamed or cowed by intellectuals. Gary Smith wrote: I don't think they are actually changing the words. What they are doing, is putting a lot of textual information on the original Aramaic and Greek, and discussing certain ideas within the NT from an LDS apologetics point of view. This one won't be to replace your LDS scriptures. This one will be for home use, where you can get a better understanding of what each verse _really_ means. So, you get the KJV, and the scholarly commentary. If you've hung out in any Christian bookstores, you'll find similar books. My favorite amongst them has been the Scofield Bible, though it is quite an older commentary. Marc, which versions do you prefer? K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark. --Michelangelo Buonarroti Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
Re: [ZION] LDS study bible
Those used to be very popular in olden days, and by olden days I mean going back to the earliest Church fathers. One of them (and I'm not going to try to find his name in my memory but I think it was Origen) put together a Hexapla which means 6 versions, 3 columns per page, so you'd have all six versions spread across an open folio sheet. I guess 7 versions would be called a Heptla? The original Hexapla had, iirc, the Old Latin version (from which Jerome would later produce the Vulgate), the Septuagint *tradition* in Greek which was the Christian Bible at that time (kind of a long story, that), and I can't remember what the other ones were. Steven Montgomery wrote: I used to have (till my kids destroyed it--sadly) a fairly large comparison Bible which contained about 7 different versions (none of the modern watered down versions) of the Bible, and if I recall correctly a couple of translations from the original Hebrew and Greek. Joseph Smith once stated that he preferred the Hebrew language Bible (at least for the Old Testament as I understand that most of the New Testament was translated from Greek). Now I have studied a smattering of Hebrew and know that a lot can get left out of the translation--just as happens with just about every translation from one language to another. What I would like to see is an LDS version as close as possible to the original meaning as possible. For instance, I believe a lot of subtle nuances, idiomatic expressions, plays on words, etc., are left out of translations unless efforts are made to at least footnote and document these instances. This is, incidentally, exactly what we're trying to do with our LDS Study Bible. You're right about the nuances. I'll give you an example which I wrote, but not for the LDS Study Bible, but for FAIR -- a 1-page monograph on Matthew 22:23-30. It turns out that the criticism of eternal marriage by using the account of the Sadducees and Christ and the woman with 7 husbands hinges on an ambiguity in English (and most other modern European languages, so far as I know) and NT Greek, where there is no ambiguity: http://www.fairlds.org/apol/brochures/EternalMarriage.pdf (see section 3, Original Language) -- Steven Montgomery At 01:36 PM 10/2/2002, you wrote: I use the Anchor Bible, which is of course much more of an investment (the series isn't finished yet and it already fills 2 1/2 shelves of one of my Ikea bookshelves). But that's a somewhat different model. I don't really have a one-volume commentary like the Scofield Bible, but iirc I've seen this in Logos, a Christian bookstore I used to frequent in Calgary, and in the Canadian Bible Society bookstore near U of Alberta here in Edmonton, and that's a good model for what we're trying to do, only from an LDS point of view. I'll give you a kind of anecdotal example of why some people think we need something like this. I have one volume of an AB-sized library of commentaries, but just the volume on I Corinthians, to help me out in my own contribution to the LDS Study Bible. The series is called The New International Greek Testament Commentary (NIGTC) and the volume on I Corinthians was written by Anthony C. Thiselton, a fairly respectable conservative Protestant scholar. The book is 1450 pp long. While he admits that 15:29 (the verse on vicarious baptism) is a notoriously difficult crux: the most 'hotly disputed' in the epistle,... he summarizes a grand total of roughly 20 possible interpretations. All *possible* interpretations, that is, except the right one, and the most direct one. This guy gets the Biblicist Pretzel Award nomination from me this year, I gotta tell you. We need stuff that, while it may not be on that level wrt scholarship (for one thing the market would be limited), at least gives LDS a basic level of understanding that the Gospel isn't only true and that the only way to know that is through spiritual means, oh by the way, it just happens to make sense, too, and you don't have to be ashamed or cowed by intellectuals. Gary Smith wrote: I don't think they are actually changing the words. What they are doing, is putting a lot of textual information on the original Aramaic and Greek, and discussing certain ideas within the NT from an LDS apologetics point of view. This one won't be to replace your LDS scriptures. This one will be for home use, where you can get a better understanding of what each verse _really_ means. So, you get the KJV, and the scholarly commentary. If you've hung out in any Christian bookstores, you'll find similar books. My favorite amongst them has been the Scofield Bible, though it is quite an older commentary. Marc, which versions do you prefer? K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von
RE: [ZION] LDS Study Bible
-John- Have you checked this project with the Brethren? Lynn Anderson wrote a simplified version of the Book of Mormon for children and poor readers, and the Brethren nixed the idea. She went ahead and published it anyway. It is pretty hard to change the words without changing the meaning somewhat, and in matters of doctrine the tiniest alteration might have long lasting ramifications. If I understand Marc correctly, they're not changing any words at all. They're just adding study information, references, and such. So I don't think the two projects are comparable. Stephen / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] LDS Study Bible
At 11:14 PM 10/1/02 + Stephen Beecroft favored us with: If I understand Marc correctly, they're not changing any words at all. They're just adding study information, references, and such. So I don't think the two projects are comparable. I must have misunderstood. --JWR / /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
