Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-10 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 09:23 PM 11/9/2002, Marc wrote:

in my opinion). Melchin is Progressive Conservative, which is the dynasty 
here,
and has been since 1970 or so.

Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. How can one claim to be a 
progressive (which has socialist roots) and conservative (which 
ostensibly should be anti-socialist) at the same time?



--
Steven Montgomery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of
selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American
politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today. 
--Steven W. Mosher 

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-10 Thread Marc A. Schindler
It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the
Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based Populist
group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the
Conservatives.

Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is Toryism,
and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that the one
single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll tax. If
I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called
Intolerable Acts?

Steven Montgomery wrote:

 At 09:23 PM 11/9/2002, Marc wrote:
 in my opinion). Melchin is Progressive Conservative, which is the dynasty
 here,
 and has been since 1970 or so.

 Now there's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. How can one claim to be a
 progressive (which has socialist roots) and conservative (which
 ostensibly should be anti-socialist) at the same time?

 --
 Steven Montgomery
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of
 selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American
 politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today.
 --Steven W. Mosher

 /
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--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

“Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick
himself up and continue on” – Winston Churchill

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author’s employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-10 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 10:56 AM 11/10/2002, you wrote:

It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the
Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based 
Populist
group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the
Conservatives.

Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is 
Toryism,
and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that 
the one
single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll 
tax. If
I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called
Intolerable Acts?

Not that I'm aware of. The intolerable or coercive acts consisted of:

Quartering Act: Established March 24, 1765
This bill required that Colonial Authorities to furnish barracks and 
supplies to British troops. In 1766, it was expanded to public houses and 
unoccupied buildings, and was updated again June 2, 1774, to include 
occupied buildings.

Boston Port Bill: Effective June 1, 1774:
This bill closed the port of Boston to all colonists until, the damages 
from the Boston Tea Party were paid for.

Administration of Justice Act: Effective May 20, 1774
This bill stated that British Officials could not be tried in provincial 
courts for capital crimes. They would be extradited back to Britain and 
tried there. This effectively gave the British free reign to do whatever 
they wished, because no justice would be served while they were still in 
the colonies.

Massachusetts Government Act: Effective May 20, 1774
This bill effectively annulled the charter of the colonies, giving the 
British Governor complete control of the town meetings, and taking control 
out of the hands of the colonialists.

Quebec Act: Established May 20, 1774 This bill extended the Canadian 
borders to cut off The western colonies of Conn. Mass. and Va.



--
Steven Montgomery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of
selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American
politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today. 
--Steven W. Mosher 

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-10 Thread Ronn Blankenship
At 12:26 PM 11/10/02, Steven Montgomery wrote:

At 10:56 AM 11/10/2002, you wrote:

It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the
Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based 
Populist
group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the
Conservatives.

Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is 
Toryism,
and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that 
the one
single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll 
tax. If
I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called
Intolerable Acts?

Not that I'm aware of. The intolerable or coercive acts consisted of:



Spam

Street Mimes

Blow-In Cards




--Ronn! :)

I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon.
I never dreamed that I would see the last.
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RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-10 Thread Jim Cobabe
24th Amendment

The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or 
other election for President or Vice President, for electors for 
President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in 
Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any 
State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax. 

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-10 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Hmm, I seem to recall from my 10th grade civics class that there was a stamp tax
and a poll tax. The Quebec Act was only intolerable because it put a quick end
to the fantasy that the rights of the Atlantic colonies extended forever
westwards.

Steven Montgomery wrote:

 At 10:56 AM 11/10/2002, you wrote:
 It's something the party takes a lot of ribbing for, but arose because in the
 Depression era, or even early for all I can remember, the Prairie-based
 Populist
 group, the Progressives, joined with the Tory, Bay Street boys, the
 Conservatives.
 
 Incidentally true conservatism as we understand it outside the US is
 Toryism,
 and seeks merely to preserve the status quo. It is most ironic to me that
 the one
 single thing that led to Thatcher's downfall was her imposition of a poll
 tax. If
 I recall my US history correctly, wasn't a poll tax one of the so-called
 Intolerable Acts?

 Not that I'm aware of. The intolerable or coercive acts consisted of:

 Quartering Act: Established March 24, 1765
 This bill required that Colonial Authorities to furnish barracks and
 supplies to British troops. In 1766, it was expanded to public houses and
 unoccupied buildings, and was updated again June 2, 1774, to include
 occupied buildings.

 Boston Port Bill: Effective June 1, 1774:
 This bill closed the port of Boston to all colonists until, the damages
 from the Boston Tea Party were paid for.

 Administration of Justice Act: Effective May 20, 1774
 This bill stated that British Officials could not be tried in provincial
 courts for capital crimes. They would be extradited back to Britain and
 tried there. This effectively gave the British free reign to do whatever
 they wished, because no justice would be served while they were still in
 the colonies.

 Massachusetts Government Act: Effective May 20, 1774
 This bill effectively annulled the charter of the colonies, giving the
 British Governor complete control of the town meetings, and taking control
 out of the hands of the colonialists.

 Quebec Act: Established May 20, 1774 This bill extended the Canadian
 borders to cut off The western colonies of Conn. Mass. and Va.

 --
 Steven Montgomery
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Nations are defined by their founders. George Washington set a standard of
 selfless public service and heroic private virtue against which American
 politicians continue to be measured - and found wanting - even today.
 --Steven W. Mosher

 /
 ///  ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at  ///
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 /


--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

“Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick
himself up and continue on” – Winston Churchill

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author’s employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-10 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I understand that. I was talking about the *British* imposing a poll tax on the
colonies. I admit I'm only going from memory -- I just thought that was one of
the intolerable acts. In any case, that Thatcher did this puts her in clear
violation of the US constitutional principles she claims to have admired so much,
and that's my actual point.

Jim Cobabe wrote:

 24th Amendment

 The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or
 other election for President or Vice President, for electors for
 President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in
 Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any
 State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

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--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

“Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick
himself up and continue on” – Winston Churchill

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author’s employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-10 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with:

Hmm, I seem to recall from my 10th grade civics class that there was a 
stamp tax
and a poll tax. The Quebec Act was only intolerable because it put a 
quick end
to the fantasy that the rights of the Atlantic colonies extended forever
westwards.

Subsequent history has shown that it was not a fantasy.  Might makes 
right.  --JWR

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-10 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Too true, but there really were overlapping and conflicting claims, even amongst
the 13 colonies, let alone the rest of British North America (remember that there
weren't just 13 colonies -- it's just that you learn about those specifically
because they're later what became the USA). But I seem to remember border
disputes between New York, Massachusetts, Maine, Maryland, Virginia, etc. And the
Oregon Territory was a real mess of conflicting treaties and uncertainties.

Take Maine as an example. The reason it juts way up into Canada is that the
treaty that set its boundaries has as a key element a measurement of what's the
highest point in a certain area. Later surveys, after the border was fixed,
showed that the border should have been way to the south (and I mean like about
100 kms), but you can't unscramble omelets. That's what made the border run right
through the centre of some towns. There's one on the Quebec-Vermont border, iirc,
where there's a pool hall/tavern right on the border, and they've painted a
yellow line through the pub to show the border. It runs right across the pool
table!  (8 ball in the American SW pocket...)

John W. Redelfs wrote:

 After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with:
 Hmm, I seem to recall from my 10th grade civics class that there was a
 stamp tax
 and a poll tax. The Quebec Act was only intolerable because it put a
 quick end
 to the fantasy that the rights of the Atlantic colonies extended forever
 westwards.

 Subsequent history has shown that it was not a fantasy.  Might makes
 right.  --JWR

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Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

“Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick
himself up and continue on” – Winston Churchill

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author’s employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-09 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Jim-
 Senator Peolosi from San Francisco is being groomed to take
 over the top of the Dem heap in the Congress [...] It will be
 truly gratifying if such openly radical nuts dominate in the
 new Democrat organization.

-John-
 [Steven] Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for
 the Democratic Party.

 In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi.  One of the
 two main parties needs to be done away with so another one can
 take its place.

-Steven-
 I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose
 Senator Pelosi. I would hold graveyard services to honor
 their demise and then go out and celebrate! ;-)

It appears you've gotten your wish. I certainly hope you all are right. 
My observation is that when wackos get into leadership position, they 
eventually stop looking quite so wacky. A monster of so frightful mien 
and all that.

Stephen

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-09 Thread Marc A. Schindler


Jon Spencer wrote:

 You sound quite a bit like McAuliffe and Daschle!  Blame is a liberal vice.

You'd never know that by hanging out around here :-/
Bush has total control of the Administration and Congress, but there's still
bugbears under your bed, it seems.

--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

“Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick
himself up and continue on” – Winston Churchill

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author’s employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-09 Thread Steven Montgomery
Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in the 1st 
Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for one of 
the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party, 
Independent American Party, etc.

--
Steven Montgomery

At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote:
So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern at the
predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for you?

Steven Montgomery wrote:

 At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote:
 After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with:
 If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to
 the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is
 what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell
 for the Democratic Party.
 
 In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi.  One of the two main
 parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place.  I'm
 tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government.
 
 
 John W. Redelfs   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi.
 I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and
 celebrate! ;-)

 --
 Steven Montgomery
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 . . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct
 political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and
 comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be
 able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests
 of the world.--John Taylor

 
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Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he 
will pick
himself up and continue on ­ Winston Churchill

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's 
employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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--
Steven Montgomery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

HTML
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src=http://www.getusout.org/images/guolink.gif;/a
PPBR
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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-09 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Indeed. This is also what seems to have happened in Turkey with the recent
election, incidentally. A party with Islamist roots appears to have a much more
pragmatic platform (in any case, Turkey's constitution declares the secular
nature of the country, and the military have traditionally reined in any
outlyers).

Stephen Beecroft wrote:

 -Jim-
  Senator Peolosi from San Francisco is being groomed to take
  over the top of the Dem heap in the Congress [...] It will be
  truly gratifying if such openly radical nuts dominate in the
  new Democrat organization.

 -John-
  [Steven] Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for
  the Democratic Party.
 
  In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi.  One of the
  two main parties needs to be done away with so another one can
  take its place.

 -Steven-
  I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose
  Senator Pelosi. I would hold graveyard services to honor
  their demise and then go out and celebrate! ;-)

 It appears you've gotten your wish. I certainly hope you all are right.
 My observation is that when wackos get into leadership position, they
 eventually stop looking quite so wacky. A monster of so frightful mien
 and all that.

 Stephen

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--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

“Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick
himself up and continue on” – Winston Churchill

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author’s employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-09 Thread Jon Spencer
Sorry, but there are too many books I've already read, seminary stuff, and
dust under my bed to fit either bugbears OR guilt under my bed.

Jon

- Original Message -
From: Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...




Jon Spencer wrote:

 You sound quite a bit like McAuliffe and Daschle!  Blame is a liberal
vice.

You'd never know that by hanging out around here :-/
Bush has total control of the Administration and Congress, but there's still
bugbears under your bed, it seems.

--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will
pick
himself up and continue on - Winston Churchill

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the
author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's
employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.


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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-09 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Yeah, yeah, okay, so we're playing around. But my serious point is that it's
going to be very difficult for Respublicans to blame anybody else if they screw
up from here on in.

Jon Spencer wrote:

 Sorry, but there are too many books I've already read, seminary stuff, and
 dust under my bed to fit either bugbears OR guilt under my bed.

 Jon

 - Original Message -
 From: Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 12:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

 Jon Spencer wrote:

  You sound quite a bit like McAuliffe and Daschle!  Blame is a liberal
 vice.

 You'd never know that by hanging out around here :-/
 Bush has total control of the Administration and Congress, but there's still
 bugbears under your bed, it seems.

 --
 Marc A. Schindler
 Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

 Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will
 pick
 himself up and continue on - Winston Churchill

 Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the
 author
 solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's
 employer,
 nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

 
 /
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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-09 Thread Steven Montgomery
I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem is 
that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the left. 
Meanwhile the Republican Party is full of RINO's (Republican in name only). 
What I meant to say previously was that there is no requirement that there 
only be two parties, I would like to see the third parties given more fair 
play in the media instead of the short shrift they are usually given.

--
Steven Montgomery

At 03:48 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote:
That may be why Pres. Hinckley asked Pres. Jensen to give an interview to the
Tribune to underscore the point -- too many Utahns didn't understand the 
point the
first time around. Even afterwards, one Rep. rep. publicly criticized 
Pres. Jensen
for what he said. The guy has more guts than I do -- I'd never publicly 
criticize
the brethren like that. But it gave me an insight into what they're up against
there in Utah.

Steven Montgomery wrote:

 Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in the 1st
 Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for one of
 the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party,
 Independent American Party, etc.

 --
 Steven Montgomery

 At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote:
 So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern 
at the
 predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for 
you?
 
 Steven Montgomery wrote:
 
   At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote:
   After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with:
   If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to 
move to
   the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. 
Which is
   what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a 
death knell
   for the Democratic Party.
   
   In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi.  One of the two main
   parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its 
place.  I'm
   tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government.
   
   
   John W. Redelfs   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator 
Pelosi.
   I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go 
out and
   celebrate! ;-)
  
   --
   Steven Montgomery
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   . . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct
   political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and
   comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn 
and be
   able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the 
interests
   of the world.--John Taylor
  
  
  
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 --
 Marc A. Schindler
 Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland
 
 Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he
 will pick
 himself up and continue on ­ Winston Churchill
 
 Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the 
author
 solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's
 employer,
 nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.
 
 /// 
//
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 --
 Steven Montgomery
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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will pick
himself up and continue on ­ Winston Churchill

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-09 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Not so far to the left that at least two well-known GAs have been active in the
Utah party: Presidents Marlin K. Jensen and Faust. Pres. Jensen explained why, and
what he felt he and like-minded LDS could do as a leavening contributor, in his
famous interview with the Trib.

Steven Montgomery wrote:

 I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem is
 that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the left.
 Meanwhile the Republican Party is full of RINO's (Republican in name only).
 What I meant to say previously was that there is no requirement that there
 only be two parties, I would like to see the third parties given more fair
 play in the media instead of the short shrift they are usually given.

 --
 Steven Montgomery

 At 03:48 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote:
 That may be why Pres. Hinckley asked Pres. Jensen to give an interview to the
 Tribune to underscore the point -- too many Utahns didn't understand the
 point the
 first time around. Even afterwards, one Rep. rep. publicly criticized
 Pres. Jensen
 for what he said. The guy has more guts than I do -- I'd never publicly
 criticize
 the brethren like that. But it gave me an insight into what they're up against
 there in Utah.
 
 Steven Montgomery wrote:
 
   Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in the 1st
   Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for one of
   the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party,
   Independent American Party, etc.
  
   --
   Steven Montgomery
  
   At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote:
   So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern
  at the
   predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for
  you?
   
   Steven Montgomery wrote:
   
 At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote:
 After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with:
 If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to
  move to
 the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate.
  Which is
 what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a
  death knell
 for the Democratic Party.
 
 In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi.  One of the two main
 parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its
  place.  I'm
 tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government.
 
 
 John W. Redelfs   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator
  Pelosi.
 I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go
  out and
 celebrate! ;-)

 --
 Steven Montgomery
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 . . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct
 political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and
 comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn
  and be
 able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the
  interests
 of the world.--John Taylor


   
  /
 ///  ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at  ///
 ///  http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html  ///

   
  /

   
   --
   Marc A. Schindler
   Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland
   
   Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he
   will pick
   himself up and continue on ­ Winston Churchill
   
   Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the
  author
   solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's
   employer,
   nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.
   
   ///
  //
   ///  ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at  ///
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   ///
  //
   
  
   --
   Steven Montgomery
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   HTML
   BODY
   a href=http://www.getusout.org;img border=0
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 --
 Marc A. Schindler
 Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland
 
 Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he
 will pick
 himself up and continue on ­ Winston Churchill
 
 Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
 solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's
 

RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-09 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 08:17 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote:


Steven Montgomery wrote:
---
I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem
is that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the
left.
---

It appears to me that partisan affiliation is largely irrelevant, at
least at the national level.  Both major national parties promote
platform issues that are morally unacceptable, insupportable, and
insufferable, to any person still gifted with the light of Christ.  In
fact, in the deepest darkest depths of these organizations lurk evils so
horrifyingly abominable that it amazes me to see apparently otherwise
decent people so associate themselves.  They are truly  Gadianton Bands,
fulfilling every item on the checklist of devilish evil and depravity.
Beneath the centrist mask, many of the principal policy makers openly
espouse ideals that would compromise the very social and political
foundations of the world.  If such fundamentally evil people ever come
to power unopposed and free to act, it will be a day of great calamity.

This far, in this modern age, we have been fortunate that these forces
must continually compromise their true inclinations to disguise the real
evil they intend.

---
Mij Ebaboc


I pretty much agree with your assessment.



--
Steven Montgomery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-09 Thread Steven Montgomery
Actually I've pondered the possibility of running as a democrat in the next 
State House election. The incumbent who just got reelected ran unopposed, 
there was no challenger from the Democratic Party.

--
Steven Montgomery

At 08:18 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote:
Not so far to the left that at least two well-known GAs have been active 
in the
Utah party: Presidents Marlin K. Jensen and Faust. Pres. Jensen explained 
why, and
what he felt he and like-minded LDS could do as a leavening contributor, 
in his
famous interview with the Trib.

Steven Montgomery wrote:

 I'm just as concerned about one party domination as you are. One problem is
 that the Democratic Party has steered themselves way too far to the left.
 Meanwhile the Republican Party is full of RINO's (Republican in name only).
 What I meant to say previously was that there is no requirement that there
 only be two parties, I would like to see the third parties given more fair
 play in the media instead of the short shrift they are usually given.

 --
 Steven Montgomery

 At 03:48 PM 11/9/2002, you wrote:
 That may be why Pres. Hinckley asked Pres. Jensen to give an interview 
to the
 Tribune to underscore the point -- too many Utahns didn't understand the
 point the
 first time around. Even afterwards, one Rep. rep. publicly criticized
 Pres. Jensen
 for what he said. The guy has more guts than I do -- I'd never publicly
 criticize
 the brethren like that. But it gave me an insight into what they're up 
against
 there in Utah.
 
 Steven Montgomery wrote:
 
   Who says there needs to be two major parties? I didn't read that in 
the 1st
   Presidency statement. The Democratic demise would pave the way for 
one of
   the third party movements, the Constitution party, Libertarian party,
   Independent American Party, etc.
  
   --
   Steven Montgomery
  
   At 09:17 AM 11/9/2002, you wrote:
   So the official 1st presidency statement of Jan 98 expressing concern
  at the
   predominance of one party in Utah, is like water off a duck's back for
  you?
   
   Steven Montgomery wrote:
   
 At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote:
 After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with:
 If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to
  move to
 the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate.
  Which is
 what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a
  death knell
 for the Democratic Party.
 
 In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi.  One of the 
two main
 parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its
  place.  I'm
 tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party 
government.
 
 
 John W. Redelfs   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator
  Pelosi.
 I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go
  out and
 celebrate! ;-)

 --
 Steven Montgomery
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 . . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study 
correct
 political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and
 comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn
  and be
 able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the
  interests
 of the world.--John Taylor


   
  
/
 ///  ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at  ///
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/

   
   --
   Marc A. Schindler
   Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland
   
   Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he
   will pick
   himself up and continue on ­ Winston Churchill
   
   Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the
  author
   solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author's
   employer,
   nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.
   
   /// 

  //
   ///  ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at  ///
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  //
   
  
   --
   Steven Montgomery
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   HTML
   BODY
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 --
 Marc A. Schindler
 Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland
 
 Man will 

RE: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-09 Thread Jim Cobabe

It is further obvious to me that some onlookers to the political scene 
lack the discernment to note that good and honest people cannot in good 
conscience affiliate, without serious reservations, with either of the 
major political groups in this country.  I have every confidence that 
noted Church leaders who associate with the Democratic Party do not wish 
to have it understood that they support or promote evil practices or 
policies that contradict the spirit or letter of the law of the Gospel.

Church members owe their allegience first and foremost to God, then to 
love their neighbors.  Loyalty to partisan political ideals is properly 
somewhere far down the list of priority.

In my experience it is common to find social mormons with a misplaced 
sense of loyalty to such matters.  They identify more strongly with 
sociopolitical ideology than with their faith in Christ.

---
Mij Ebaboc

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-08 Thread Marc A. Schindler
If I were you, I'd be more worried about what might happen if Administration
policies fail. There's no Democratic Congress to blame anymore.

Jim Cobabe wrote:

 Senator Peolosi from San Francisco is being groomed to take over the top
 of the Dem heap in the Congress, while many of the other rats abandon
 the sinking ship.  Appears that she doesn't even attempt to hide her
 whacked-out leftist socialist feminazi idealism.  Near as I can tell,
 she is an icon for everything that disgusted me about the Clintonistas.
 In other words, the perfect model to represent Demoncratic leadership in
 US politics.

 It will be truly gratifying if such openly radical nuts dominate in the
 new Democrat organization.  Then they can vent their angst over
 irrelevant non-issues like equal pay for women and human rights in
 China, while the real leadership addresses substantive matters.

 ---
 Mij Ebaboc

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Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

“Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick
himself up and continue on” – Winston Churchill

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-08 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 06:27 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote:


Senator Peolosi from San Francisco is being groomed to take over the top
of the Dem heap in the Congress, while many of the other rats abandon
the sinking ship.  Appears that she doesn't even attempt to hide her
whacked-out leftist socialist feminazi idealism.  Near as I can tell,
she is an icon for everything that disgusted me about the Clintonistas.
In other words, the perfect model to represent Demoncratic leadership in
US politics.

It will be truly gratifying if such openly radical nuts dominate in the
new Democrat organization.  Then they can vent their angst over
irrelevant non-issues like equal pay for women and human rights in
China, while the real leadership addresses substantive matters.

---
Mij Ebaboc


If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to the 
center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is what I 
think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for the 
Democratic Party.



--
Steven Montgomery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Explore Freedom: http://www.geocities.com/graymada

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-08 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with:

If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to the 
center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is what I 
think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell for the 
Democratic Party.

In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi.  One of the two main 
parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place.  I'm 
tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government.


John W. Redelfs   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine,
which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis.
--Jack Handy
===
All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR

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Re: [ZION] Liberal dems unveil...

2002-11-08 Thread Steven Montgomery
At 07:20 PM 11/8/2002, you wrote:

After much pondering, Steven Montgomery favored us with:

If the Democratic party hopes to survive they would be wise to move to 
the center by backing Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a moderate. Which is 
what I think will happen. Choosing Senator Pelosi will ring a death knell 
for the Democratic Party.

In that case, I hope they choose Senator Pelosi.  One of the two main 
parties needs to be done away with so another one can take its place.  I'm 
tired of one-party government masquerading as two-party government.


John W. Redelfs   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I would be tickled pink if the Democratic Party did choose Senator Pelosi. 
I would hold graveyard services to honor their demise and then go out and 
celebrate! ;-)


--
Steven Montgomery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

. . . it is as much their [The Elders of Israel] duty to study correct 
political principles as well as religion, and to seek and know and 
comprehend the social and political interests of man, and to learn and be 
able to teach that which would be best calculated to promote the interests 
of the world.--John Taylor

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