Re: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America
I think that there is a difference between melting and working gold and the making of metal alloys such as steel. I think that is what is being objected to when they say they was no metal working. George - Original Message - From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 8:20 PM Subject: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America > http://www.geotimes.org/aug03/resources.html > > I found an article on mining and metallurgy in ancient America, mostly in > NW South America. I have heard some object to the Book of Mormon on > grounds that there has been no evidence of a metal working culture in > American archaeology. Apparently I'm missing something. Isn't gold a > metal? And didn't the Spanish conquistadors take mountains of gold back to > the Old World even to the point of causing a great inflation? Undoubtedly > I just don't understand the objection being made. To be honest, I haven't > made a study of it, apologetics not being one of my strong interests. > > Question: Do we yet know where Lehi landed in the Americas, and where the > earliest Lehite colonies were? Is it still generally thought that he > landed on the coast of modern Chile, or was that ever a popular theory? > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "There is no place in this work for those who believe only > in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good > news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley > === > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America
I think you mean steel and if so you are correct. However the problem was with people who do not believe that. George - Original Message - From: "Paul Osborne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 6:17 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America > > On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:28:16 -0600 George Cobabe > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > I think that there is a difference between melting and working gold > > and the > > making of metal alloys such as steel. I think that is what is > > being > > objected to when they say they was no metal working. > > > > George > > The Book of Mormon tells us that they used steal; both the Nephites and > the Jaredites. > > Paul O > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:28:16 -0600 George Cobabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I think that there is a difference between melting and working gold > and the > making of metal alloys such as steel. I think that is what is > being > objected to when they say they was no metal working. > > George The Book of Mormon tells us that they used steal; both the Nephites and the Jaredites. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America
Well let me try it again. When you "work" gold you do not change the chemical composition of the original metal - all you do is purify the material and make of it what you want. When you make steel you change the compostion of several metals and other ingredients and make a new metal. It is a chemical process, not just a melting process. Does that make sense? Melting materials and making an object out of it is easy and has been around a long time. Not quite so true of making steel. George - Original Message - From: "Scott McGee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America > Right, that makes more sense. One is the process of melting metal from > ore and working the metal, the other is more, uh, well, melting metal > from ore, and, hmm, working the metal. > > Maybe that doesn't make much sense after all. > > Scott > > George Cobabe wrote: > > >I think that there is a difference between melting and working gold and the > >making of metal alloys such as steel. I think that is what is being > >objected to when they say they was no metal working. > > > >George > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 8:20 PM > >Subject: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America > > > > > > > > > >>http://www.geotimes.org/aug03/resources.html > >> > >>I found an article on mining and metallurgy in ancient America, mostly in > >>NW South America. I have heard some object to the Book of Mormon on > >>grounds that there has been no evidence of a metal working culture in > >>American archaeology. Apparently I'm missing something. Isn't gold a > >>metal? And didn't the Spanish conquistadors take mountains of gold back > >> > >> > >to > > > > > >>the Old World even to the point of causing a great inflation? Undoubtedly > >>I just don't understand the objection being made. To be honest, I haven't > >>made a study of it, apologetics not being one of my strong interests. > >> > >>Question: Do we yet know where Lehi landed in the Americas, and where the > >>earliest Lehite colonies were? Is it still generally thought that he > >>landed on the coast of modern Chile, or was that ever a popular theory? > >> > >>John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>=== > >>"There is no place in this work for those who believe only > >>in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good > >>news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley > >>=== > >>All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > >> > >> > >> > >> > >/// / > >// > > > > > >>/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > >>/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > >> > >> > >> > >/// / > >/ > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >/// /// > >/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > >/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > >/// // > > > > > > > > > > -- > The family that prays together, stays together. > --- > Scott McGee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > web site: http://themcgees.org/scott/ > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America
Right, that makes more sense. One is the process of melting metal from ore and working the metal, the other is more, uh, well, melting metal from ore, and, hmm, working the metal. Maybe that doesn't make much sense after all. Scott George Cobabe wrote: I think that there is a difference between melting and working gold and the making of metal alloys such as steel. I think that is what is being objected to when they say they was no metal working. George - Original Message - From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 8:20 PM Subject: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America http://www.geotimes.org/aug03/resources.html I found an article on mining and metallurgy in ancient America, mostly in NW South America. I have heard some object to the Book of Mormon on grounds that there has been no evidence of a metal working culture in American archaeology. Apparently I'm missing something. Isn't gold a metal? And didn't the Spanish conquistadors take mountains of gold back to the Old World even to the point of causing a great inflation? Undoubtedly I just don't understand the objection being made. To be honest, I haven't made a study of it, apologetics not being one of my strong interests. Question: Do we yet know where Lehi landed in the Americas, and where the earliest Lehite colonies were? Is it still generally thought that he landed on the coast of modern Chile, or was that ever a popular theory? John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- The family that prays together, stays together. --- Scott McGee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) web site: http://themcgees.org/scott/ // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America
Gold is often found as nuggets of the pure metal or as veins of the pure metal in quartz, while iron, which is much more chemically reactive, is never found free in nature (except occasionally in the form of meteorites) and requires a rather high temperature (higher than you can get with a regular open flame, so you need a bellows) to extract it from ore with the help of a reducing agent such as charcoal. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, IIRC, there were some people somewhere in the Middle East who had figured out how to extract iron from ore by about 900 BC. At 09:39 PM 8/11/03 -0400, Scott McGee wrote: Right, that makes more sense. One is the process of melting metal from ore and working the metal, the other is more, uh, well, melting metal from ore, and, hmm, working the metal. Maybe that doesn't make much sense after all. Scott George Cobabe wrote: I think that there is a difference between melting and working gold and the making of metal alloys such as steel. I think that is what is being objected to when they say they was no metal working. George - Original Message - From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2003 8:20 PM Subject: [ZION] Metallurgy in Ancient America http://www.geotimes.org/aug03/resources.html I found an article on mining and metallurgy in ancient America, mostly in NW South America. I have heard some object to the Book of Mormon on grounds that there has been no evidence of a metal working culture in American archaeology. Apparently I'm missing something. Isn't gold a metal? And didn't the Spanish conquistadors take mountains of gold back to the Old World even to the point of causing a great inflation? Undoubtedly I just don't understand the objection being made. To be honest, I haven't made a study of it, apologetics not being one of my strong interests. Question: Do we yet know where Lehi landed in the Americas, and where the earliest Lehite colonies were? Is it still generally thought that he landed on the coast of modern Chile, or was that ever a popular theory? -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
