Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 07:25:28 -0800, Doug McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: I did go to a restaurant on a Sunday back in June. We were on vacation and figured we had to eat something. Hmm, so it is ok to break the sabbath on vacation? You probably should have bought something the night before. Course, I am just picking at you, it isn't up to me to judge. I always hate it when I have to travel on Sunday. Sometimes, though, it isn't really avoidable. I tend to use (not abuse) the Ox in the mire philosophy. For instance, there was a time a few months back where I had to run to the store for something we really needed on a Sunday. I felt really bad about it, and resolved more strongly to anticipate such needs before hand. I did go, but I repented of my lack of forethought. Most of the time if I find I need something on a Sunday, I just have to do without. I don't recall what it was that was so important, but I do recall the incedent as I felt so badly about it. Scott -- Buttered bread always lands butter side * Would YOU mistake these as down (Unless it sticks to the ceiling!) * anyone`s opinions but my own? Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Scott McGee) Web: http://scott.themcgees.org/ -- http://fastmail.fm - Consolidate POP email and Hotmail in one place // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
Scott favored us with the following: I tend to use (not abuse) the Ox in the mire philosophy. For instance, there was a time a few months back where I had to run to the store for something we really needed on a Sunday. I felt really bad about it, and resolved more strongly to anticipate such needs before hand. I did go, but I repented of my lack of forethought. Most of the time if I find I need something on a Sunday, I just have to do without. I don't recall what it was that was so important, but I do recall the incedent as I felt so badly about it. Generally, I have found that if I need something on a Sunday (like an egg or two) and cannot seem to go without it, I will go to a neighbor's house and ask if I can borrow the item from them. I figure it gives me chance to get to know my neighbors (and take advantage of them, apparently - ;-), while at the same time avoid going to the store and purchasing what I need. Of course, as you said, it is best to anticipate your Sabbath day needs and purchase / prepare them the day before. Geoff -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
Pres. Harold B. Lee had an interesting aphorism. He said, It's okay to rescue your ox from the mire on Sunday. But not if you pushed him into it on Saturday evening. (he meant: prepare yourselves for the Sabbath ahead of time to the extent you can) Geoff FOWLER wrote: Scott favored us with the following: I tend to use (not abuse) the Ox in the mire philosophy. For instance, there was a time a few months back where I had to run to the store for something we really needed on a Sunday. I felt really bad about it, and resolved more strongly to anticipate such needs before hand. I did go, but I repented of my lack of forethought. Most of the time if I find I need something on a Sunday, I just have to do without. I don't recall what it was that was so important, but I do recall the incedent as I felt so badly about it. Generally, I have found that if I need something on a Sunday (like an egg or two) and cannot seem to go without it, I will go to a neighbor's house and ask if I can borrow the item from them. I figure it gives me chance to get to know my neighbors (and take advantage of them, apparently - ;-), while at the same time avoid going to the store and purchasing what I need. Of course, as you said, it is best to anticipate your Sabbath day needs and purchase / prepare them the day before. Geoff -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: Re: [ZION] One party rule?
In my opinion the more parties the better. Stacy. I agree. . .party on, dude!! Yeahh! Let's all have a party!! :-))) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
The United Order was voluntary, socialism isn't. That is a pretty big difference in my book. Of course your right, John. Why didn't I think of that? Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
In effect we've struck a devil's bargain -- raw materials and geography in turn for huddling under your nuclear umbrella, so your son's actually not far off the mark. I'd feel much safer without the umbrella, especially since 11 September 2001. No one has ever yet given me a list of the enemies who could attack Canada, let alone who would. = Mark Gregson [EMAIL PROTECTED] = -- ___ Get your free email from http://mymail.operamail.com Powered by Outblaze // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
John: Speaking of unlawful transfer of property, a couple of days ago my son made an interesting observation. He said that the USA provides a national defense for Canada and gets Canada to pay for it by abusing trade regulations. I'm not sure you would agree with the first half of the statement, but I'm sure you'd agree that the USA finds ways of sucking Canada dry with lopsided tariffs and such. Dan: You mean we have to pay extra for our ginger ale?!? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] one party rule?
Gary said: women reproductive issues - I can't use the real term because it is against charter, Yeah but we knew what you meant. ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
*Some* of that criticism of the Repubs is deserved, I think -- Bush was tight with oil interests, which is okay, but he allowed further deregulations which basically allowed companies to hide a lot of stuff from their shareholders. Not that we're lily-white, either. The TSX (the Toronto Stock Exchange, and the regulatory bodies that regulate it) allow a rather arcane manoeuvre, the details of which I won't get into because of their complexity, which allow senior executives to appear in annual reports to be holding stock when in fact all they own are the votes associated with that stock -- the stock is effectively owned by banks who have bought short positions against the stocks as backup when the inevitable burst comes but in the meantime the managers get to vote themselves hefty salary increases and performance bonuses. Our tax philosophy is that the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance is that you're allowed to structure your affairs in such a way as to avoid paying any more tax than you have to. Evasion, besides the usual definition, includes any manoeuvre which is set up for the *primary* purpose of avoiding tax, however, a bit of a grey area that it seems our tax officials are afraid of, or are underfunded, to try testing. Maybe they're afraid of slicing the top off of most of the TSX 500 companies :-/ Dan R Allen wrote: Marc: I don't care whose watch they were codified under -- they're still laws which allow for unlawful transfer of property. Dan: Oh, I agree, but on this side of the border and prior to the elections, the standard complaint was that the Enron debacle was the sole fault of the Republicans. I was merely pointing out who was supposed to be minding the store at the time. I agree with John that on most issues there isn't much difference between the two parties, but the Republican party does have a few redeeming planks left - notably the charter violation issues, while the Democratic party has none. Dan R Allen wrote: John W. Redelfs wrote: For instance, to me a socialist is anyone who advocates government redistribution of the wealth from those who produce wealth to those who don't. Using that definition the Democratic party is definitely controlled by socialists. But then using that definition, the Republicans are also controlled by socialists. So what's the difference except in rhetoric? Marc: Such as laws which allowed the workers of Enron to have their pension funds robbed by the big brass (sorry, I couldn't resist, although I'm sure John would actually agree). Dan: But weren't those laws modified under Clinton's watch? The robberies certainly were... // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
Then I think that ALL Utah Mormons should be ex'ed. Hmmm - good bye President Hinckley. OK, so that won't work. How about this? Set up a booth in the malls which will give $100 to anyone with a temple recommend. Collect the names. After a few weeks, ex them all! Yes! By the way, when I get a few minutes, I'll post some thoughts on the Sabbath that come from (1) the only place in the Doctrine and Covenants that the Sabbath is referenced (anyone know where that is?) and (2) the actions of the Pharisees at the time of Christ. (Be care when messin' with a Seminary teacher/supervisor :-) Jon John W. Redelfs wrote: Those Utah Mormons don't seem to mind defying the Brethren when it comes to shopping at the mall on Sunday, why should they pay any attention to the Brethren when it comes to being Republican or Democrat? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
Yup, us bad old Utah Mormons.. Gosh, I haven't been to the Mall on a Sunday yet. I must just not know what I'm missing. Do they have free entertainment on Sundays??? Thinking back, I don't recall the last time I was even at a grocery store or any other kind of store on a Sunday. I did go to a restaurant on a Sunday back in June. We were on vacation and figured we had to eat something. Doug On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:42:27 -0500 Jon Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then I think that ALL Utah Mormons should be ex'ed. Hmmm - good bye President Hinckley. OK, so that won't work. How about this? Set up a booth in the malls which will give $100 to anyone with a temple recommend. Collect the names. After a few weeks, ex them all! Yes! By the way, when I get a few minutes, I'll post some thoughts on the Sabbath that come from (1) the only place in the Doctrine and Covenants that the Sabbath is referenced (anyone know where that is?) and (2) the actions of the Pharisees at the time of Christ. (Be care when messin' with a Seminary teacher/supervisor :-) Jon John W. Redelfs wrote: Those Utah Mormons don't seem to mind defying the Brethren when it comes to shopping at the mall on Sunday, why should they pay any attention to the Brethren when it comes to being Republican or Democrat? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
After much pondering, Jon Spencer favored us with: Then I think that ALL Utah Mormons should be ex'ed. Hmmm - good bye President Hinckley. Are you suggesting that President Hinckley goes shopping at the mall on Sunday? grin OK, so that won't work. How about this? Set up a booth in the malls which will give $100 to anyone with a temple recommend. Collect the names. After a few weeks, ex them all! John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who make people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea. --Jack Handy === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
After much pondering, Doug McGee favored us with: Yup, us bad old Utah Mormons.. Gosh, I haven't been to the Mall on a Sunday yet. I must just not know what I'm missing. Do they have free entertainment on Sundays??? Thinking back, I don't recall the last time I was even at a grocery store or any other kind of store on a Sunday. Good on you, Doug. According to the Old Testament, the Sabbath is the primary way the Lord keeps track of who his people are, or to be more precise, the way he lets his people be known as his people among the rest of his children. The Brethren have repeatedly asked us not to shop on Sunday's. Our family hasn't done it for years. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] = I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Jerry Pournelle = All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] One party rule?
Perhaps the motivation behind liberal rhetoric reacting to the Republican domination in US politics is more instructive than all the supposedly moderate and centrist Democrat voices urging respect and tolerance for their views. Perhaps Bill Moyers editorial gives a better picture of what these people believe about the Republican majority. http://www.pbs.org/now/commentary/moyers15.html; Bill Moyers on Election 2002 Way back in the 1950's when I first tasted politics and journalism, Republicans briefly controlled the White House and Congress. With the exception of Joseph McCarthy and his vicious ilk, they were a reasonable lot, presided over by that giant war hero, Dwight Eisenhower, who was conservative by temperament and moderate in the use of power. That brand of Republican is gone. And for the first time in the memory of anyone alive, the entire federal government the Congress, the Executive, the Judiciary is united behind a right-wing agenda for which George W. Bush believes he now has a mandate. That mandate includes the power of the state to force pregnant women to give up control over their own lives. It includes using the taxing power to transfer wealth from working people to the rich. It includes giving corporations a free hand to eviscerate the environment and control the regulatory agencies meant to hold them accountable. And it includes secrecy on a scale you cannot imagine. Above all, it means judges with a political agenda appointed for life. If you liked the Supreme Court that put George W. Bush in the White House, you will swoon over what's coming. And if you like God in government, get ready for the Rapture. These folks don't even mind you referring to the GOP as the party of God. Why else would the new House Majority Leader say that the Almighty is using him to promote 'a Biblical worldview' in American politics? So it is a heady time in Washington a heady time for piety, profits, and military power, all joined at the hip by ideology and money. Don't forget the money. It came pouring into this election, to both parties, from corporate America and others who expect the payback. Republicans outraised democrats by $184 million dollars. And came up with the big prize monopoly control of the American government, and the power of the state to turn their ideology into the law of the land. Quite a bargain at any price. That's it for this week. For NOW, I'm Bill Moyers. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
We hicks out here in the stayx don't shop on Sundays (speaking for me and my house, anywho). I won't even put gas in the car on Sunday. We always make sure there's enough gas in the cars on Saturday so that whoever is taking a vehicle into Edmonton Monday morning has enough. Doug McGee wrote: Yup, us bad old Utah Mormons.. Gosh, I haven't been to the Mall on a Sunday yet. I must just not know what I'm missing. Do they have free entertainment on Sundays??? Thinking back, I don't recall the last time I was even at a grocery store or any other kind of store on a Sunday. I did go to a restaurant on a Sunday back in June. We were on vacation and figured we had to eat something. Doug On Tue, 12 Nov 2002 09:42:27 -0500 Jon Spencer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then I think that ALL Utah Mormons should be ex'ed. Hmmm - good bye President Hinckley. OK, so that won't work. How about this? Set up a booth in the malls which will give $100 to anyone with a temple recommend. Collect the names. After a few weeks, ex them all! Yes! By the way, when I get a few minutes, I'll post some thoughts on the Sabbath that come from (1) the only place in the Doctrine and Covenants that the Sabbath is referenced (anyone know where that is?) and (2) the actions of the Pharisees at the time of Christ. (Be care when messin' with a Seminary teacher/supervisor :-) Jon John W. Redelfs wrote: Those Utah Mormons don't seem to mind defying the Brethren when it comes to shopping at the mall on Sunday, why should they pay any attention to the Brethren when it comes to being Republican or Democrat? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
I think what everyone means by socialists are the people informally who believe that the government should pay for health care for everyone regardless of income or social status, not necessarily those that belong to the Communist party or groups thereof. I think this needs to be clarified somewhat. Stacy. At 10:31 AM 11/12/2002 -0600, you wrote: Hello, my name is Irwin Delay. I recently joined the list. Although I am not a Latter-day Saint, I have been reading LDS literature for the past three years. Also, I am engaged to a Latter-day Saint. I must respond to the statements of Gerald Smith. Let me first say I am an unapologetic, flaming liberal. I do not think the Democratic party is controlled by the socialist. Also, the problem I have with the idea of states' rights is the fact of what happened to African Americans forty years ago. Were blacks in the south expected to migrate en masse to the north to escape segregation? A strong federal government is a must in order to protect the rights of the minority. Irwin // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
In a previous post, Stacy Smith wrote, I think what everyone means by socialists are the people informally who believe that the government should pay for health care for everyone regardless of income or social status, not necessarily those that belong to the Communist party or groups thereof. I think this needs to be clarified somewhat. Stacy. Thanks for the clarification. We are not even married yet and I need to be corrected. (grin) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
At 09:42 11/12/2002 -0800, Stacy wrote: I think what everyone means by socialists are the people informally who believe that the government should pay for health care for everyone regardless of income or social status, not necessarily those that belong to the Communist party or groups thereof. I think this needs to be clarified somewhat. Here in Ithaca it means that the government will rock everybody's cradle to put them to sleep. That is as long as you don't say anything against their little pet agendae, such as reproductive rights or s**ual preference rights. Actually, not only that, you need to chant their mantra with them as they sing the lullaby. Till the disgusted who will not carry this discussion any further down this path // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
After much pondering, Irwin Delay favored us with: Thanks for the clarification. We are not even married yet and I need to be corrected. (grin) After you are married, you will get all the correction you need. grin --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
Gary Smith wrote: I think the problem in a one party system is shown historically. The South became polarized to the Democratic party in the 1850s, with other parties being totally squeezed out (Republicans, Whigs, Know-Nothings, etc) Well, actually the Know-Nothings became known as Southern Baptists, but that's another story ;-) . This one party system then allowed a gradual radicalization of the one system. Without balance, they ended up driving a wedge between themselves and the Union (I recognize the Union wasn't perfect, either. However one didn't see secession efforts by disgruntled states in the north). We see this in France's Revolution, also. They started with a wide variety of parties, from kingmen to jacobins (and a few parties even more radical than they). But the right wing was eliminated over a couple years, after which the centrists (Garondians) were wiped out, leaving only the one side to run amok. And you probably know the term radical did not have the same meaning then as now. It comes from Latin radix, meaning root, and meant those who tried to get at the root of a problem. The Democrats are in trouble, because many of them have become socialists. Utah doesn't need a socialist party. It does need a two party system, which means either they need to revive and recover the Democratic party, or they need to quickly get behind a second party. A one party system gives too much power to a small cadre of politicians. This opens the door to abuse of power. It is okay if one party is conservative and the other is moderate/centrist. Or even better yet, two open tent parties which are indistinguishable ideologically. We really do live in a post-ideology world, and ideology-based politics will not succeed. People need to learn the hard lesson that politics is about how to broker power. And politicians are like underwear: they need to be changed periodically. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
Yeah, fundamentalists are taking control all over the place. Pretty sad, isn't it? Jim Cobabe wrote: Perhaps the motivation behind liberal rhetoric reacting to the Republican domination in US politics is more instructive than all the supposedly moderate and centrist Democrat voices urging respect and tolerance for their views. Perhaps Bill Moyers editorial gives a better picture of what these people believe about the Republican majority. http://www.pbs.org/now/commentary/moyers15.html; Bill Moyers on Election 2002 -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] One party rule?
-Irwin- Thanks for the clarification. We are not even married yet and I need to be corrected. (grin) -John- After you are married, you will get all the correction you need. That's what I thought at first, but Michelle informs me that this is a slanderous falsehood. Stephen // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
In my opinion the more parties the better. Stacy. At 07:00 AM 11/12/2002 -0900, you wrote: After much pondering, Gary Smith favored us with: I think the problem in a one party system is shown historically. The South became polarized to the Democratic party in the 1850s, with other parties being totally squeezed out (Republicans, Whigs, Know-Nothings, etc). This one party system then allowed a gradual radicalization of the one system. Without balance, they ended up driving a wedge between themselves and the Union (I recognize the Union wasn't perfect, either. However one didn't see secession efforts by disgruntled states in the north). I've been thinking of becoming a Democrat. I can't see a nickle's worth of difference between Democrats and Republicans except in their rhetoric. They both vote the same wrong way on the issues that matter to me. And since I never vote for the candidate of either party, why not be a Democrat? Who knows, it might help me get along with Marc. grin John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === Laurie got offended that I used the word puke. But to me, that's what her dinner tasted like. --Jack Handy === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
Well said, and welcome to the list, Irwin. Irwin Delay wrote: Hello, my name is Irwin Delay. I recently joined the list. Although I am not a Latter-day Saint, I have been reading LDS literature for the past three years. Also, I am engaged to a Latter-day Saint. I must respond to the statements of Gerald Smith. Let me first say I am an unapologetic, flaming liberal. I do not think the Democratic party is controlled by the socialist. Also, the problem I have with the idea of states' rights is the fact of what happened to African Americans forty years ago. Were blacks in the south expected to migrate en masse to the north to escape segregation? A strong federal government is a must in order to protect the rights of the minority. Irwin // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
At 11:42 11/12/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote: And politicians are like underwear: they need to be changed periodically. And dunked in suds and hung out to dry. (or would taken to the cleaners be better? no, that's what they do to us) Till the ever watchful // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
At 11:00 11/12/2002 -0800, you wrote: In my opinion the more parties the better. YES!!! the more the merrier. Now who's bringing the cookies? the green jello Till the party animal // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
John W. Redelfs wrote: For instance, to me a socialist is anyone who advocates government redistribution of the wealth from those who produce wealth to those who don't. Using that definition the Democratic party is definitely controlled by socialists. But then using that definition, the Republicans are also controlled by socialists. So what's the difference except in rhetoric? Such as laws which allowed the workers of Enron to have their pension funds robbed by the big brass (sorry, I couldn't resist, although I'm sure John would actually agree). -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
What I read into Elder Jensen's article is if the Democratic party isn't what we want it to be, then perhaps if enough of us were to switch over to it, we could change it for the better. We'd kick the socialists out of it and into the Green Party (or other socialist party of one's choice), and create a moderate Democratic party. This sounds like a very good idea to me. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
Thinking back, I don't recall the last time I was even at a grocery store or any other kind of store on a Sunday. I've snuck out a few times over the years and it makes me feel guilty. But, when I've gone shopping after midnight (Monday morning) my conscience is as clear as can be. What do you think of that? I love those loopholes. ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
Well, I had a rather different idea about what kind of parties to have. Lol. Stacy. At 02:18 PM 11/12/2002 -0500, you wrote: At 11:00 11/12/2002 -0800, you wrote: In my opinion the more parties the better. YES!!! the more the merrier. Now who's bringing the cookies? the green jello Till the party animal // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
I've been thinking of becoming a Democrat. I can't see a nickle's worth of difference between Democrats and Republicans except in their rhetoric. They both vote the same wrong way on the issues that matter to me. And since I never vote for the candidate of either party, why not be a Democrat? Who knows, it might help me get along with Marc. grin My wife and I are thinking about it too. Maybe we can work to change some of the issues and make it a better party. I'm serious about this. I really don't like politics but maybe there is something I can do to contribute to the cause. Let me know what *you* decide John. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
Irwin wrote, A strong federal government is a must in order to protect the rights of the minority. I agree, just so long as they don't step on my right while in the process of protecting others. ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
I would refrain from making such comments on the list in case certain persons come on this list that are known between us. I wasn't trying to correct you but only giving my views on the subject for the list. Do I believe everyone should have free health care? Too expensive in my opinion. The disabled should have it insofar as they are able to live in a free society and having liberty. Everyone? No. Stacy. At 12:36 PM 11/12/2002 -0600, you wrote: In a previous post, Stacy Smith wrote, I think what everyone means by socialists are the people informally who believe that the government should pay for health care for everyone regardless of income or social status, not necessarily those that belong to the Communist party or groups thereof. I think this needs to be clarified somewhat. Stacy. Thanks for the clarification. We are not even married yet and I need to be corrected. (grin) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.399 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 10/09/2002 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
Paul wrote: I've snuck out a few times over the years and it makes me feel guilty. But, when I've gone shopping after midnight (Monday morning) my conscience is as clear as can be. What do you think of that? I love those loopholes. ;-) I don't consider them loopholes at all. When I started working for an Internet-based company in early 2000, I was alone responsible for their entire IT operation. There was a time when I worked 6 days a week, and then had to come in by 1:00 AM onMonday mornings to complete my work before my colleagues arrived later that morning. I didn't want to be the one holding things up, and we were growing rapidly. With my wife's encouragement I was able to get them to hire a few more people so that I could go back to a normal work week. I believe that I was blessed for not working on Sunday, even though I had to come in pretty early those few Mondays. :). While the company itself inflated and deflated with the rest of the dot-bombs, I was not laid off and left of my own free will only a couple of months ago. Given the number of people who were let go (many of whom were much more qualified than I was), I consider this a tremendous blessing and am very grateful for it. Geoff -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
At 12:46 11/12/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote: This is a concept we're well acquainted with in Canada, where we separate the Head of State from Head of Government. The Head of State (the husband) is purely ceremonial and only really needed in times of crisis ;-) You mean Red was giving me bad advice, about the handsome/handy relationship. Till the disillusioned // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
Irwin wrote, A strong federal government is a must in order to protect the rights of the minority. Paul: I agree, just so long as they don't step on my right while in the process of protecting others. ;-) Dan: A strong federal government is also a must in order to eliminate the rights of all. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: Such as laws which allowed the workers of Enron to have their pension funds robbed by the big brass (sorry, I couldn't resist, although I'm sure John would actually agree). You bet I do. That's called corporate welfare, and is just as disgusting as any other kind, even more so because the big weenies already sleep in nice beds and beautiful homes. Brigham Young had some interesting things to say about the distribution of wealth in a corrupt society. We happened to go over them last night in our Family Home Evening. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === At present, the Book of Mormon is studied in our Sunday School and seminary classes every fourth year. This four-year pattern, however, must NOT be followed by Church members in their personal and family study. We need to read daily from the pages of the book that will get a man nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book. (Ezra Taft Benson, October 1988) === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
After much pondering, Paul Osborne favored us with: Plunder?? Can we read about this in the DC? Consecration? United Order? Let us take from the riches of John Redelfs and give to poor Paul Osborne! After all, we are all brethren and we should be more equal in wealth. Right? If you need anything, just let me know Paul, and I'll do what I can. Besides, using the power of government to steal from the rich and give to the poor is a bit different from the United Order. The United Order was voluntary, socialism isn't. That is a pretty big difference in my book. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === Laurie got offended that I used the word puke. But to me, that's what her dinner tasted like. --Jack Handy === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
Well, you'll note how most of his projects end up. Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 12:46 11/12/2002 -0700, M Marc wrote: This is a concept we're well acquainted with in Canada, where we separate the Head of State from Head of Government. The Head of State (the husband) is purely ceremonial and only really needed in times of crisis ;-) You mean Red was giving me bad advice, about the handsome/handy relationship. Till the disillusioned -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
I don't care whose watch they were codified under -- they're still laws which allow for unlawful transfer of property. Dan R Allen wrote: John W. Redelfs wrote: For instance, to me a socialist is anyone who advocates government redistribution of the wealth from those who produce wealth to those who don't. Using that definition the Democratic party is definitely controlled by socialists. But then using that definition, the Republicans are also controlled by socialists. So what's the difference except in rhetoric? Marc: Such as laws which allowed the workers of Enron to have their pension funds robbed by the big brass (sorry, I couldn't resist, although I'm sure John would actually agree). Dan: But weren't those laws modified under Clinton's watch? The robberies certainly were... // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: I don't care whose watch they were codified under -- they're still laws which allow for unlawful transfer of property. Speaking of unlawful transfer of property, a couple of days ago my son made an interesting observation. He said that the USA provides a national defense for Canada and gets Canada to pay for it by abusing trade regulations. I'm not sure you would agree with the first half of the statement, but I'm sure you'd agree that the USA finds ways of sucking Canada dry with lopsided tariffs and such. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === Atheistic humanism is the opiate of the self-described intellectuals --Uncle Bob === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
But how do you know that then is not now? Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: Maybe. But that will be then. This is now, and we're to listen to the counsel we're given now. Jim Cobabe wrote: One party rule will eventually fulfil the prophetic vision of early Church leaders. There will be only one party that follows the Lord. Everyone else will follow the adversary. Ultimately this is the only partisan association that matters. While this may not be the pattern for this day, the time is near at hand. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
Party animal! Jon Stacy Smith wrote: In my opinion the more parties the better. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
At 07:25 AM 11/12/2002 -0800, Doug wrote: Yup, us bad old Utah Mormons.. Don't be redundant. Rick Mathis // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
I have heard that one of the most profitable times for Dominos in Provo is the 12 am shift on Monday morning. Jon Paul Osborne wrote: I've snuck out a few times over the years and it makes me feel guilty. But, when I've gone shopping after midnight (Monday morning) my conscience is as clear as can be. What do you think of that? I love those loopholes. ;-) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] One party rule?
In effect we've struck a devil's bargain -- raw materials and geography in turn for huddling under your nuclear umbrella, so your son's actually not far off the mark. John W. Redelfs wrote: After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with: I don't care whose watch they were codified under -- they're still laws which allow for unlawful transfer of property. Speaking of unlawful transfer of property, a couple of days ago my son made an interesting observation. He said that the USA provides a national defense for Canada and gets Canada to pay for it by abusing trade regulations. I'm not sure you would agree with the first half of the statement, but I'm sure you'd agree that the USA finds ways of sucking Canada dry with lopsided tariffs and such. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === Atheistic humanism is the opiate of the self-described intellectuals --Uncle Bob === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
I give up. You have indeed trapped me in a time warp. Just don't mess up the 31st century, where I come from. Jon Spencer wrote: But how do you know that then is not now? Jon Marc A. Schindler wrote: Maybe. But that will be then. This is now, and we're to listen to the counsel we're given now. Jim Cobabe wrote: One party rule will eventually fulfil the prophetic vision of early Church leaders. There will be only one party that follows the Lord. Everyone else will follow the adversary. Ultimately this is the only partisan association that matters. While this may not be the pattern for this day, the time is near at hand. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
Steven Montgomery wrote: At 04:11 PM 11/11/2002, Marc wrote: Here in Utah in part I think it's related to the fact that the Democratic Party has in the last 20 years waned to the point where it really is almost not a factor in our political life right now. And I think there is a feeling that that is not healthy at all -- that as a state we suffer in different ways. But certainly any time you don't have the dialogue and the give-and-take that the democratic process provides, you're going to be poorer for it in the long run. Political parties come and go. Shortly after the U.S. was founded there were the Whigs and the Federalists. So now we have Republicans and Democrats--so what? The main point Elder Jensen was making imo is the dialogue. If the Democratic party goes by the wayside there will always be another party willing to step in and take its place. And that's fair enough. It was the lack of creative tension you have when there's more than one party, and also the fact that the Church needs to spread its bets, so to speak, that I think are their main concerns. I don't think this is about Democrats and Repubs. per se. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
Stephen Beecroft wrote: -Marc- One party domination is in direct defiance of the Brethren. Defiance? Institutions are not capable of defiance, only individuals. Which individuals do you believe are in defiance of the Brethren? Well, for starters the Republican congressman who publicly criticized Pres. Jensen for his remarks. Also, you've missed a quite legitimate parsing of my sentence. When one says x is in defiance of y, that implies that belief in x is in defiance of y. I think that's pretty standard English. The leaders of the Republican party in Utah? Any Utah Republicans? Any LDS Republicans? Please clarify your accusation, so I can tell whether I and my family are included in it. Tribune: What is the attitude of church leaders toward the lingering sentiment among some Mormons -- apparently stemming back to comments made by former LDS President Ezra Taft Benson -- that it is difficult to be a good LDS member and a Democrat? I recall that statement as being liberal Democrat, though of course I could be mistaken. But even if I am correct, this is after all the Tribune we're talking about, so it's rather naive to expect truth or balance. And I trust you read Pres. Jensen's answer to the question? I think the reason Pres. Jensen was assigned to talk to the Trib and not the D.N. was precisely because of the Trib's reputation; it was sending Daniel into the lion's den, and is all the more useful, politically, for that reason. That is, no one can accuse him of taking only soft ball lob shots. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] One Party Rule?
Maybe. But that will be then. This is now, and we're to listen to the counsel we're given now. Jim Cobabe wrote: One party rule will eventually fulfil the prophetic vision of early Church leaders. There will be only one party that follows the Lord. Everyone else will follow the adversary. Ultimately this is the only partisan association that matters. While this may not be the pattern for this day, the time is near at hand. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] One Party Rule?
I understand that the Church does not endorse any political policy, except in cases where a moral issue is involved. There is a strong effort to avoid the suggestion that the platform of a particular political party represents or has the unilateral backing of the Church. This has been the policy of the Church as long as I have been aware. I do not recall any general Church statments from the First Presidency that have mentioned any particular concern or direction with regard to partisan politics. It has long been my impression that we should deliberate on important political matters independent of any partisan considerations. To fulfill this directive Church members are encouraged to be personally involved in local politics. That has been the extent of the counsel. Elder Jensen, a Church General Authority and Utah Democrat, in a statement to the media, reemphasized this point. He also shared a personal concern of some of the brethren about the possible unwanted ill effects stemming from lack of political diversity in the Utah political scene. He expressed the thought that it was unfortunate for Church members to have unjustified negative impressions of the Democratic party, since some good people choose to affiliate therein.h He did not, however, suggest in any way for members to support Democratic partisan policy, split themselves evenly between parties, join the Democrats, or vote for Democrat candidates, since that would have contradicted other points of his statement, and the long-standing general counsel. Elder Jensen did not elaborate about which brethren he was referring to, nor did he develop this thought much further, and I don't recall any other statements from the Church augmenting his brief reference. What I got from his statement was that it's just fine for Church members to be Democrats, if they so choose. And it's also fine if they choose something else. --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
