Re: [ZION] Revisionist History

2002-12-02 Thread John W. Redelfs
After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with:

Thanks for digging this up. Midgley does not think much of the new 
historians, and
has taken Murphy to task for his paper. If you read the paper, you'll see 
that he
refers to papers Midgley wrote about the Church in New Zealand, but 
Midgley has
told me he confronted Murphy about twisting the meaning of what Midgley 
had wrote.
Murphy was squirming, as I understand it, but stood by his position. I 
would urge
all to take this the same way we have taken Bagley's book on the MMM; more 
heat
than light, and it shall pass quickly enough. Those with a real interest in it
might want to sign up for FAIR's listserve -- this has been a topic of 
fruitful
discussion there.

How much does FAIR focus on anti-Mormons within the Church compared with 
anti-Mormons outside the Church? --JWR

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Re: [ZION] Revisionist History

2002-12-02 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Not as much as they'd like to. This is being discussed on the FAIR list now, in
fact, and there's a general feeling that this kind of thing -- the Murphy paper --
needs to be addressed. FAIR's problem is that it's just an informal bunch of
amateurs who do what we can on our own time.

John W. Redelfs wrote:

 After much pondering, Marc A. Schindler favored us with:
 Thanks for digging this up. Midgley does not think much of the new
 historians, and
 has taken Murphy to task for his paper. If you read the paper, you'll see
 that he
 refers to papers Midgley wrote about the Church in New Zealand, but
 Midgley has
 told me he confronted Murphy about twisting the meaning of what Midgley
 had wrote.
 Murphy was squirming, as I understand it, but stood by his position. I
 would urge
 all to take this the same way we have taken Bagley's book on the MMM; more
 heat
 than light, and it shall pass quickly enough. Those with a real interest in it
 might want to sign up for FAIR's listserve -- this has been a topic of
 fruitful
 discussion there.

 How much does FAIR focus on anti-Mormons within the Church compared with
 anti-Mormons outside the Church? --JWR

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 ///  ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at  ///
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 /


--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

“Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick
himself up and continue on” – Winston Churchill

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author’s employer, nor
those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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Re: [ZION] Revisionist History

2002-12-01 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Thanks for digging this up. Midgley does not think much of the new historians, and
has taken Murphy to task for his paper. If you read the paper, you'll see that he
refers to papers Midgley wrote about the Church in New Zealand, but Midgley has
told me he confronted Murphy about twisting the meaning of what Midgley had wrote.
Murphy was squirming, as I understand it, but stood by his position. I would urge
all to take this the same way we have taken Bagley's book on the MMM; more heat
than light, and it shall pass quickly enough. Those with a real interest in it
might want to sign up for FAIR's listserve -- this has been a topic of fruitful
discussion there.

Jim Cobabe wrote:

 A quote from Louis Midgley regarding those who question the Book of
 Mormon historicity--Sterling McMurrin, former philosophy prof at the
 University of Utah, typifies this crowd, and was the poster child of
 many of the current followers of the dissident camp.

 Revisionist History—The Great Leap Forward

 Some are still insisting that the Church must abandon the traditional
 understanding of the beginnings of the faith.  Why is such a revisionist
 history, as it is now being called, especially by RLDS historians,
 either desirable or necessary? Presumably, a competent, honest scrutiny
 of the historical foundations of the faith, that is, a serious look at
 the beginnings, discloses what  Sterling McMurrin labels a good many
 unsavory things.  McMurrin, for example, charges that the Church has
 intentionally distorted its own history by dealing fast and loose with
 historical data and imposing theological and religious interpretations
 on those data that are entirely unwarranted.

 For McMurrin, the Mormon faith is so mixed up with so many commitments
 to historical events—or to events that are purported to be
 historical—that a competent study of history can be very disillusioning.
 Mormonism is a historically oriented religion. To a remarkable degree,
 the Church has concealed much of its history from its people, while at
 the same time causing them to tie their religious faith to its own
 controlled interpretations of its history. The problem, as McMurrin
 sees it, is a fault of the weakness of the faith which should not be
 tied at all to history. fn He strives to separate faith from history,
 substituting naturalistic humanism fn for prophetic faith—promoting
 the enterprise of philosophical theology as a substitute for divine
 special revelations. McMurrin provides the least sentimental statement
 of the intellectual grounds for a secular revisionist Mormon history,
 that is, one done entirely in naturalistic terms. McMurrin sees the
 Mormon past in what Leonard Arrington once called human or naturalistic
 terms.

 We should, from McMurrin's perspective, begin with the dogma that you
 don't get books from angels and translate them by miracles; it is just
 that simple. fn A history resting on that premise would require a
 fundamental reordering of the faith. fn His program would retain only
 fragments of a culture resting on abandoned beliefs. Marty, straying
 from the core of his argument, eventually introduces many kinds of
 integrity. Some of these are appropriate to insiders and others to
 outsiders, some to church authorities and some to historians. fn But
 given what Marty had already shown about the necessity of the decisive
 generative events surviving the acids of modernity, it is difficult to
 see how he could defend the integrity of a stance such as McMurrin's.
 Certainly McMurrin's denials do not permit the survival of the crucial
 historical foundations. But still, Marty defends the history being done
 by some of those on the fringes of the Church whose arguments are not as
 coherent as those of McMurrin, yet whose premises are not unlike certain
 of his dogmas. fn

 The Book of Mormon, when viewed as a fictional or mythical account, and
 not as reality, no longer can have authority over us or provide genuine
 hope for the future. To treat the Book of Mormon as a strange
 theologically motivated brand of fiction, and in that sense as myth, is
 to alter radically both the form and content of faith and thereby
 fashion a new church in which the texts are told what they can and
 cannot mean on the basis of some exterior ideology. To reduce the Book
 of Mormon to mere myth weakens, if not destroys, the possibility of it
 witnessing to the truth about divine things. A fictional Book of Mormon
 fabricated by Joseph Smith, even when his inventiveness, genius, or
 inspiration is celebrated, does not witness to Jesus Christ but to human
 folly. A true Book of Mormon is a powerful witness; a fictional one is
 hardly worth reading and pondering. fn Still, the claims of the text
 must be scrutinized and tested, then either believed or not believed
 without a final historical proof.

 An historically grounded faith is vulnerable to the potential ravages of
 historical inquiry, but it is also one that could be true in a way