Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-23 Thread Jon Spencer
John W. Redelfs wrote:

 Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that we don't pray to Jesus
 Christ.  We pray to the Father in the  name of Jesus Christ.  Anyway, it
is
 impossible to worship one member of the Godhead without worshipping all
 three.  They are that one.  --JWR

So does this mean that if I am mad at, say, the Holy Ghost, and I don't want
to worship Him, I'm stuck?

Sorry, but I don't buy this three-in-one thing.  They are distinct.  They
may be one in mind, but not in substance.

Did I end up on a Presbyterian list somehow?  How did THAT happen?  :-)

Jon

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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-23 Thread Jon Spencer

Ya know, now that you mention it, I don't think that there is anything wrong
with having a little talk with Christ.  The gratitude I am certain we all
feel for Christ and what He did for us is well beyond anything that I can
express in words.  And how about talking with your mother or father or
spouse or whatever who has left this mortal estate?  Or what about thanking
Alma for the wonderful example he was and is for you?

I would also hazard to guess that many of us have thought very much about
Christ and have even spoken directly to Him during the Sacrament prayer.  It
would be hard not to, given our promise to always remember Him.

It would seem strange to me indeed if one were ever penalized for expressing
the sincere thoughts they have for these people.

Jon

Paul Osborne wrote:


 Right. I can go along with this, Marc. However, you might recall that I
 said earlier that there are times in my life when I sneak a prayer to
 Jesus only without thinking of the Father. I wouldn't teach this at the
 church pulpit, or what not, but I am telling my friends (you) in private
 that sometimes (not often) I just want to focus my thoughts on Christ
 alone and tell him that I love him and need him-- he is my brother. This
 tone does come from the Book of Mormon. Don't get me wrong, most every
 prayer I utter is directed to the Father and I know that Christ is there
 too, BUT, there are times I feel a need to think solely of Christ and his
 atonement and if I think of the Father I get distracted. I have also had
 this experience of prayer with Heavenly Mother a few times when I just
 wanted to talk to her and no one else. Wow!! I won't get into it, it's
 too sacred.

 Anyway, its my own business and I'm just sharing a little about me. I'm
 not encouraging anyone to do as I do. Worship how or what you may
 according to the dictates of your own conscience. And if you guys don't
 like what I said-- Oh well, suit yourself.

 Paul O
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RE: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-23 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Paul-
 there are times in my life when I sneak a prayer to Jesus only
 without thinking of the Father. I wouldn't teach this at the
 church pulpit, or what not, but I am telling my friends (you) in
 private that sometimes (not often) I just want to focus my
  thoughts on Christ alone and tell him that I love him and need
 him-- he is my brother. This tone does come from the Book of
 Mormon.

I don't know if this is appropriate or not. I rather suspect not, based 
on Christ's teachings and the example set by our leaders, but I am not 
sure. Note that in the Book of Mormon, they only prayed to Christ 
directly when he was physically standing in front of them, as he himself 
pointed out (3 Ne 19:22: Father, thou hast given them the Holy Ghost 
because they believe in me; and thou seest that they believe in me 
because thou hearest them, and they pray unto me; and THEY PRAY UNTO ME 
BECAUSE I AM WITH THEM).

-Jon-
 Ya know, now that you mention it, I don't think that there is
 anything wrong with having a little talk with Christ.  The
 gratitude I am certain we all feel for Christ and what He did
 for us is well beyond anything that I can express in words.

Are we then also justified in praying to our celestial Mother? I don't 
believe so; people who have taught this particualr thing have been 
excommunicated for apostasy. Perhaps praying to Jesus is somehow 
entirely different. But to my small mind, our prayers are directed to 
the Father and to him alone. If Jesus comes to visit me, I'll pray to 
him; otherwise, I think it's probably not appropriate.

That's just my viewpoint, of course. Do whatever you feel right about 
doing.

Stephen

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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-21 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Thanks for the references. I had in mind only one, and I'm too lazy to go look it
up, but I'm sure it's well known to list members, and that's BRMcC's famous Seven
Deadly Heresies talk. Also, if I recall correctly, didn't the Nephites worship
Christ only to a point, after which he told them to worship the Father?

Perhaps we should separate the terms pray to and worship.

John W. Redelfs wrote:

 Paul Osborne favored us with:
 I agree with you on this John and submit the following to Marc which I
 think shows that we must worship Christ as well as his Father and not
 just in name only:
 
 “They Spoke to Us,” Friend, Dec. 1998, 15
 
 “President Gordon B. Hinckley: We believe in Christ. We worship Christ.
 We take upon ourselves in solemn covenant His holy name. The Church to
 which we belong carries His name. He is our Lord, our Savior, our
 Redeemer through whom came the great Atonement with salvation and eternal
 life.”
 
 Robert E. Wells, “Be a Friend, a Servant, a Son of the Savior,” Ensign,
 Nov. 1982, 69
 “I said to my friend, “Please allow me to explain that we definitely are
 Christians—we do worship God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ”
 
 Dallin H. Oaks, “Why Do We Serve?” New Era, Mar. 1988, 5
 “Service is an imperative for those who worship Jesus Christ.”
 
 “And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he
 saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.” Heb 1:6
 “And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked,
 and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I
 saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.” 1 Ne 11:24
 “And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in
 Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore
 ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind,
 and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise
 be cast out.” 2 Ne 25:29

 I just love it when you cite sources, Paul.  It adds so much more
 credibility to your opinions. I commend the practice to all.  --JWR

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Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-21 Thread Marc A. Schindler
I certainly wouldn't object to that.

Paul Osborne wrote:

 Interesting -- I think you might have me there, at least partially, as I
 was
 unaware of the GBH quote. I suppose I should have defined the term more
 tightly
 and say that we don't *pray* to Jesus Christ.

 Right. I can go along with this, Marc. However, you might recall that I
 said earlier that there are times in my life when I sneak a prayer to
 Jesus only without thinking of the Father. I wouldn't teach this at the
 church pulpit, or what not, but I am telling my friends (you) in private
 that sometimes (not often) I just want to focus my thoughts on Christ
 alone and tell him that I love him and need him-- he is my brother. This
 tone does come from the Book of Mormon. Don't get me wrong, most every
 prayer I utter is directed to the Father and I know that Christ is there
 too, BUT, there are times I feel a need to think solely of Christ and his
 atonement and if I think of the Father I get distracted. I have also had
 this experience of prayer with Heavenly Mother a few times when I just
 wanted to talk to her and no one else. Wow!! I won't get into it, it's
 too sacred.

 Anyway, its my own business and I'm just sharing a little about me. I'm
 not encouraging anyone to do as I do. Worship how or what you may
 according to the dictates of your own conscience. And if you guys don't
 like what I said-- Oh well, suit yourself.

 Paul O
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 
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Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

“Knowledge may give weight, but accomplishments give lustre, and many more people
see than weigh.” – Lord Chesterfield

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author’s employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-21 Thread Paul Osborne
Also, if I recall correctly, didn't the Nephites worship
Christ only to a point, after which he told them to worship the Father?


The Nephites worshipped Christ because he was the ETERNAL GOD and they
loved him with all their hearts. It is true that the mortal Jesus taught
the Jews how to pray to the Father and the resurrected Jesus in turn
taught the Nephites how to pray to the Father. This does not at all
diminish the worship we should have for Christ today.

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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-21 Thread Paul Osborne
Marc
I certainly wouldn't object to that.


You my friend, are indeed a Christian. :-)

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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-21 Thread John W. Redelfs
Paul Osborne favored us with:

Bernard P. Brockbank, The Living Christ, Ensign, May 1977, 26

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints worships a God and a
Jesus Christ with bodies, with parts, and with passions.


Which is not to say that we are to pray to Jesus Christ.  We are not 
supposed to do that. --JWR

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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-21 Thread John W. Redelfs
Paul Osborne favored us with:

Both the Book of Mormon as scripture and Joseph Smith as a prophet bear
witness to Jesus Christ as Savior. The Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl
of Great Price bear that same great witness, as do all of the modern
prophets and apostles. Though all the world may say that Latter-day
Saints do not know or love or worship Jesus Christ, the truth is that we
do. If this is not enough to be counted as Christian, then that word has
lost its meaning.


The reconciliation between those who say we worship Jesus and other who say 
we must worship only the Father is this:  On group is using the word 
worship to mean pray to, and the other is using a much broader definition 
of the term worship.  Like so many other words, worship has more than one 
meaning.  Hence, the two sides are arguing over semantics.   President 
Hinckley has never suggested that we should pray to Jesus.  Nor did Elder 
McConkie ever suggest that we should not adore Jesus Christ for what he has 
done in our behalf.  Both President Hinckley and Elder McConkie would agree 
that we are not to pray to Jesus, but that we are to pray to Father in the 
name of Jesus.


John W. Redelfs   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Anytime I see something screech across a room and
latch onto someones neck, and the guy screams and
tries to get it off, I have to laugh, because what is that
thing. --Jack Handy
===
All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR

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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread John W. Redelfs
Paul Osborne favored us with:

What do you mean we don't worship Christ? I worship Jesus Christ and so
do the prophets of every dispensation.


Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that we don't pray to Jesus 
Christ.  We pray to the Father in the  name of Jesus Christ.  Anyway, it is 
impossible to worship one member of the Godhead without worshipping all 
three.  They are that one.  --JWR

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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Actually we worship *in the name of Jesus Christ, but we have been told to
worship only the Father, and to address our prayers only to Him.

Paul Osborne wrote:

 Marc
 We have been told to worship God the Father. Period. Not even Jesus
 Christ -- God the Father.

 What do you mean we don't worship Christ? I worship Jesus Christ and so
 do the prophets of every dispensation.

 Paul O
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


--
Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

“Knowledge may give weight, but accomplishments give lustre, and many more people
see than weigh.” – Lord Chesterfield

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author’s employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread Marc A. Schindler
Interesting -- I think you might have me there, at least partially, as I was
unaware of the GBH quote. I suppose I should have defined the term more tightly
and say that we don't *pray* to Jesus Christ.

Paul Osborne wrote:

 Paul Osborne favored us with:
 What do you mean we don't worship Christ? I worship Jesus Christ and so
 do the prophets of every dispensation.

 Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that we don't pray to Jesus
 Christ.  We pray to the Father in the  name of Jesus Christ.  Anyway,
 it is
 impossible to worship one member of the Godhead without worshipping all

 three.  They are that one.  --JWR

 I agree with you on this John and submit the following to Marc which I
 think shows that we must worship Christ as well as his Father and not
 just in name only:

 “They Spoke to Us,” Friend, Dec. 1998, 15

 “President Gordon B. Hinckley: We believe in Christ. We worship Christ.
 We take upon ourselves in solemn covenant His holy name. The Church to
 which we belong carries His name. He is our Lord, our Savior, our
 Redeemer through whom came the great Atonement with salvation and eternal
 life.”

 Robert E. Wells, “Be a Friend, a Servant, a Son of the Savior,” Ensign,
 Nov. 1982, 69
 “I said to my friend, “Please allow me to explain that we definitely are
 Christians—we do worship God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ”

 Dallin H. Oaks, “Why Do We Serve?” New Era, Mar. 1988, 5
 “Service is an imperative for those who worship Jesus Christ.”

 “And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he
 saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.” Heb 1:6
 “And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked,
 and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I
 saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.” 1 Ne 11:24
 “And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in
 Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore
 ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind,
 and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise
 be cast out.” 2 Ne 25:29
 “Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall
 down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.” 3 Ne 11:17
 “And they did all, both they who had been healed and they who were whole,
 bow down at his feet, and did worship him; and as many as could come for
 the multitude did kiss his feet, insomuch that they did bathe his feet
 with their tears.” 3 Ne 17:10
 Paul O
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Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

“Knowledge may give weight, but accomplishments give lustre, and many more people
see than weigh.” – Lord Chesterfield

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author
solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author’s employer,
nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated.

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RE: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread Stephen Beecroft
-Paul-
 What do you mean we don't worship Christ? I worship Jesus Christ
 and so do the prophets of every dispensation. [...] I agree with
 you on this John and submit the following to Marc which I think
 shows that we must worship Christ as well as his Father and not
 just in name only: [...]

Bruce R. McConkie, BYU Devotional speech, 2 March 1982:

 Let us set forth those doctrines and concepts that a gracious
 God has given to us in this day and which must be understood in
 order to gain eternal life. They are: 

 1. We worship the Father and him only and no one else. 

 We do not worship the Son and we do not worship the Holy Ghost.
 I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping
 Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely
 different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being
 reverentially grateful to Him who has redeemed us. Worship in
 the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the
 Creator.

I don't believe Elder McConkie's teachings on the topic conflict with 
the other quotations you provided, and it does clearly teach that we do 
not worship Christ in the same sense as we worship the Father. I can't 
speak for Marc, of course (heaven forbid I try!), and truthfully I don't 
even remember the context of what he said; but in my mind this teaching 
gives validity to the doctrine that we don't worship Christ. At this 
point, I think it's all a matter of definition.

Stephen

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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread Paul Osborne
Interesting -- I think you might have me there, at least partially, as I
was
unaware of the GBH quote. I suppose I should have defined the term more
tightly
and say that we don't *pray* to Jesus Christ.


Right. I can go along with this, Marc. However, you might recall that I
said earlier that there are times in my life when I sneak a prayer to
Jesus only without thinking of the Father. I wouldn't teach this at the
church pulpit, or what not, but I am telling my friends (you) in private
that sometimes (not often) I just want to focus my thoughts on Christ
alone and tell him that I love him and need him-- he is my brother. This
tone does come from the Book of Mormon. Don't get me wrong, most every
prayer I utter is directed to the Father and I know that Christ is there
too, BUT, there are times I feel a need to think solely of Christ and his
atonement and if I think of the Father I get distracted. I have also had
this experience of prayer with Heavenly Mother a few times when I just
wanted to talk to her and no one else. Wow!! I won't get into it, it's
too sacred.

Anyway, its my own business and I'm just sharing a little about me. I'm
not encouraging anyone to do as I do. Worship how or what you may
according to the dictates of your own conscience. And if you guys don't
like what I said-- Oh well, suit yourself.

Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread George Cobabe
Paul, I think you have misunderstood what the prophets have been doing for
we are commanded to:
(Doctrine and Covenants 20:17-20.)

17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite
and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the
framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them;

18 And that he created man, male and female, after his own image and in his
own likeness, created he them;

19 And gave unto them commandments that they should love and serve him, the
only living and true God, and that he should be the only being whom they
should worship.

You will notice that it says that God (the Father) is the only being that
we should worship.  A few years ago there was quite a program in books and
other literature that promoted, in the Church, making Christ the center of
our lives.  It was quietly discouraged and the material were withdrawn by
the authors.  Because God the Father is in fact the only authorized object
of our worship.

We can love, respect,hold in high esteem and appreciation the Son, our
redeemer, but we worship only the Father.

George


- Original Message -
From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ZION] Worship Christ


 Marc
 We have been told to worship God the Father. Period. Not even Jesus
 Christ -- God the Father.


 What do you mean we don't worship Christ? I worship Jesus Christ and so
 do the prophets of every dispensation.

 Paul O
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 
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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread John W. Redelfs
Paul Osborne favored us with:

I agree with you on this John and submit the following to Marc which I
think shows that we must worship Christ as well as his Father and not
just in name only:

“They Spoke to Us,” Friend, Dec. 1998, 15

“President Gordon B. Hinckley: We believe in Christ. We worship Christ.
We take upon ourselves in solemn covenant His holy name. The Church to
which we belong carries His name. He is our Lord, our Savior, our
Redeemer through whom came the great Atonement with salvation and eternal
life.”

Robert E. Wells, “Be a Friend, a Servant, a Son of the Savior,” Ensign,
Nov. 1982, 69
“I said to my friend, “Please allow me to explain that we definitely are
Christians—we do worship God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ”

Dallin H. Oaks, “Why Do We Serve?” New Era, Mar. 1988, 5
“Service is an imperative for those who worship Jesus Christ.”

“And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he
saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.” Heb 1:6
“And after he had said these words, he said unto me: Look! And I looked,
and I beheld the Son of God going forth among the children of men; and I
saw many fall down at his feet and worship him.” 1 Ne 11:24
“And now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in
Christ, and deny him not; and Christ is the Holy One of Israel; wherefore
ye must bow down before him, and worship him with all your might, mind,
and strength, and your whole soul; and if ye do this ye shall in nowise
be cast out.” 2 Ne 25:29


I just love it when you cite sources, Paul.  It adds so much more 
credibility to your opinions. I commend the practice to all.  --JWR

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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread Paul Osborne


First Presidency Message
A Testimony of the Son of God
Ensign, December 2002
By President Gordon B. Hinckley


We honor Him, we worship Him, we love Him as our Redeemer, the great
Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New Testament. The
entire thrust of the testimony of the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and
Covenants declares our living Lord before whom we kneel in humility and
faith.

Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread Paul Osborne
George,

You're welcome to take up your differences with President Hinkley if you
like. As for me and my house, we will worship Christ.

Paul O



On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:49:27 -0700 George Cobabe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Paul, I think you have misunderstood what the prophets have been 
 doing for
 we are commanded to:
 (Doctrine and Covenants 20:17-20.)
 
 17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is 
 infinite
 and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable 
 God, the
 framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them;
 
 18 And that he created man, male and female, after his own image and 
 in his
 own likeness, created he them;
 
 19 And gave unto them commandments that they should love and serve 
 him, the
 only living and true God, and that he should be the only being whom 
 they
 should worship.
 
 You will notice that it says that God (the Father) is the only 
 being that
 we should worship.  A few years ago there was quite a program in 
 books and
 other literature that promoted, in the Church, making Christ the 
 center of
 our lives.  It was quietly discouraged and the material were 
 withdrawn by
 the authors.  Because God the Father is in fact the only authorized 
 object
 of our worship.
 
 We can love, respect,hold in high esteem and appreciation the Son, 
 our
 redeemer, but we worship only the Father.
 
 George
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 6:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [ZION] Worship Christ
 
 
  Marc
  We have been told to worship God the Father. Period. Not even 
 Jesus
  Christ -- God the Father.
 
 
  What do you mean we don't worship Christ? I worship Jesus Christ 
 and so
  do the prophets of every dispensation.
 


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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread George Cobabe
I appreciate the offer, however I would be interested in your take on the
scripture and what it means.

I confess your quotes regarding worshiping Christ are troubling with regard
to his verse.  How do you reconcile the two?

George


- Original Message -
From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: [ZION] Worship Christ


 George,

 You're welcome to take up your differences with President Hinkley if you
 like. As for me and my house, we will worship Christ.

 Paul O



 On Fri, 20 Dec 2002 23:49:27 -0700 George Cobabe
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Paul, I think you have misunderstood what the prophets have been
  doing for
  we are commanded to:
  (Doctrine and Covenants 20:17-20.)
 
  17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is
  infinite
  and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable
  God, the
  framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them;
 
  18 And that he created man, male and female, after his own image and
  in his
  own likeness, created he them;
 
  19 And gave unto them commandments that they should love and serve
  him, the
  only living and true God, and that he should be the only being whom
  they
  should worship.
 
  You will notice that it says that God (the Father) is the only
  being that
  we should worship.  A few years ago there was quite a program in
  books and
  other literature that promoted, in the Church, making Christ the
  center of
  our lives.  It was quietly discouraged and the material were
  withdrawn by
  the authors.  Because God the Father is in fact the only authorized
  object
  of our worship.
 
  We can love, respect,hold in high esteem and appreciation the Son,
  our
  redeemer, but we worship only the Father.
 
  George
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 6:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [ZION] Worship Christ
 
 
   Marc
   We have been told to worship God the Father. Period. Not even
  Jesus
   Christ -- God the Father.
  
  
   What do you mean we don't worship Christ? I worship Jesus Christ
  and so
   do the prophets of every dispensation.
  

 
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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread Paul Osborne
I confess your quotes regarding worshiping Christ are troubling with
regard
to his verse.  How do you reconcile the two?


I've got to go to bed now. I'm absolutely exhausted and sick too, again.
I'll just say that the difference between the three members of the
Godhead boils down to one fact, and that is our Father Elohiem is the
father of our spirits and Jesus and the Holy Ghost are not. We cannot
worship Christ and the Holy Ghost in quite the exact same way as we can
our Father because our Father begat our spirits--abba father.

I think this is basically what Elder McConkie was summing up when he made
his comments. But, we should know that the scriptures tell us point blank
that Jesus Christ is the ETERNAL GOD. I am mean for crying out loud it is
written all throughout the scriptures and how men and women have
worshipped him as such. We can't get to the Father without going through
the Son. And that means we worship the Son too--and we should have the
Holy Spirit with us when we do so.

Paul O
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread Paul Osborne
Stephen E. Robinson, “Are Mormons Christians?” New Era, May 1998, 41

“Both the Book of Mormon as scripture and Joseph Smith as a prophet bear
witness to Jesus Christ as Savior. The Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl
of Great Price bear that same great witness, as do all of the modern
prophets and apostles. Though all the world may say that Latter-day
Saints do not know or love or worship Jesus Christ, the truth is that we
do. If this is not enough to be counted as Christian, then that word has
lost its meaning.”

Paul O
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Re: [ZION] Worship Christ

2002-12-20 Thread Paul Osborne
Bernard P. Brockbank, “The Living Christ,” Ensign, May 1977, 26

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints worships a God and a
Jesus Christ with bodies, with parts, and with passions. 

Paul O
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