Re: [ZION] working woman
>On numerous occasions, we have been counseled that women need to get a good >education to not waste the gifts that have been given to her. I would >hazard to guess that many working mothers do not really have to work, that >the family could work things out so that she would not have to work. > >However, there are many cases where the financial situation requires a woman >to work, some of them unforseeable, some of them unavoidable, and some of >the the result of bad decisions and completely avoidable. > >Unforseeable: the husband is disabled and there has been insufficient time >for the family to build up sufficient reserves/disabiliy insurance to make >it through, or some similar situation. > >Unavoidable (by the mother): a flake of a husband leaves the family by >running off or committing a crime, etc. The mother has no alternative but >to take on both roles. > >Bad decisions: The husband dies and has no/insufficient life insurance. >The famliy acrues unnecessary/avoidable debt. > >But whatever the case, it is between the individual and his/her maker to >judge. In my own personal opinion, each individual knows in their heart >whether they are working out of necessity, or if they really don not need to >work, or could arrange things so as not to have to work (move locations or >to a smaller house, etc.). > >Jon As I grow older, I look back on my life and I can see times when I made poor decisions. I look back now and wish I had gotten my teaching certificate. I have worked for the school district for many years, and it has allowed me to be home when my children are home - both in hours and vacations. But the pay I receive as a Records Clerk is nothing compared to what the teachers are getting. There are other examples that I won't go into. Obviously, I haven't always made the right choices. My husband has been without work several time for anywhere from 1.5 years to 3 years. The reasons varied, but the job market here is not the best and getting worse. His degree is not one that he can use around here, but this is where we chose to live. Has he made some bad choices? Sure, looking back I'd say so. I have quit work several times and tried to do something from home, but it has not been very successful. I'm not a good boss for myself. I did manage to homeschool our kids for their younger years. I feel good about that. But I haven't always given them all the attention they may have needed even if I did have the time. I look back and wish I had done some things differently. I wish my husband had been able to make enough money to support us without my paycheck, but that hasn't happened. He's been a janitor and now works on septic systems. So I have worked to help support the family - but I wouldn't work if I didn't have to. We have old cars. We have a canoe, but no motorboat. We have a manufactured home and 2.5 acres, but it is only paid off because of an inheritance. We have insurance for the family ONLY because I work. Bob only recently got medical insurance for himself thru work. Our sons will have to pay for college themselves. Our oldest has money for his mission thru a settlement because of a broken leg at school. Our younger son is working and saving money for his mission. We'll probably split the cost with him. Nothing fancy. We don't live high on the hog. I know I haven't always made the best choices, but I go on and try to do better. I do know that the Lord will judge us by our words, actions, our thoughts AND the intentions of our hearts. I know there are alot of women out there that would quit work if they could afford it somehow. I know women that went to work when their kids got older because they felt they could contribute something or had skills that needed developing or because sitting at home was boring. I know women who don't work and scrimp by, using coupons, buying second-hand (we've done that most of our married lives with both of us working), growing a garden, canning, recycling, and doing without so they can be home. I know a few women who have worked because they wanted "bigger, better toys". In my experience in the church, these were the exceptions. I do believe that the Adversary is behind the scenes making it more and more impossible for families to get by without 2 paychecks. It is one of the ways to try to break up the family. But more than working, I think we can make our lives so "busy" that we don't have time for each other in the family... this sometimes even includes callings in the church, unfortunately. Elder Packer said that as leaders they recognized that this was happening, so meetings have been consolidated and streamlined. Programs have been eliminated. The focus is supposed to be on the family. Ideally, a woman should be home with her children - especially during their younger years. No one can replace a mother/father (in John's case) care of children at home. This is the beginning of family closeness. But there a
Re: [ZION] working woman
I already said on previous posts that I found telemarketing probably as low as prostitution or close to it. My opinion has not changed. Stacy. At 12:49 AM 09/21/2003 -0400, you wrote: With all the people who are signing up on the do not call me lists, there will be far fewer telemarketing jobs. However, there will still be some. One of the people I home taught was severely disabled and legally blind. He did telemarketing occasionally. I found the companies he worked for to be, in general, of low integrity. Jon - Original Message - From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 12:55 PM Subject: RE: [ZION] working woman > Stacy Smith wrote: > >I wish I could work at all. The Department of Rehabilitation in this > >county has evaluated me and decided I am unemployable. This is no > >laughing matter for me and has caused me much depression. Seeing I have > >no children, employment outside the home should not have been a problem for me. > > A number of years ago I was a telephone salesman, selling magazine > advertising over the telephone. I got really good at it after weeks of > failure. I'll bet a blind person could do it better than a sighted person > because they would be more sensitive to the subtle nuances in the voice of > both themselves and their prospective customers. Of course some people > don't like that kind of work. Come to think of it, some people don't like > any kind of work. > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "There is no place in this work for those who believe only > in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good > news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley > === > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
Stacy Smith wrote: > The line must be decided individual case by individual case between the > person and the bishop, I'm sure. in response to a posting by Jim Cobabe: > >With regard to applying prophetic counsel, where is the line between > >personal prerogative and inspiration, and personal apostasy? I don't think that it is any of the Bishop's business, in general. In fact this entire thread has seemed a bit strange to me. On numerous occasions, we have been counseled that women need to get a good education to not waste the gifts that have been given to her. I would hazard to guess that many working mothers do not really have to work, that the family could work things out so that she would not have to work. However, there are many cases where the financial situation requires a woman to work, some of them unforseeable, some of them unavoidable, and some of the the result of bad decisions and completely avoidable. Unforseeable: the husband is disabled and there has been insufficient time for the family to build up sufficient reserves/disabiliy insurance to make it through, or some similar situation. Unavoidable (by the mother): a flake of a husband leaves the family by running off or committing a crime, etc. The mother has no alternative but to take on both roles. Bad decisions: The husband dies and has no/insufficient life insurance. The famliy acrues unnecessary/avoidable debt. But whatever the case, it is between the individual and his/her maker to judge. In my own personal opinion, each individual knows in their heart whether they are working out of necessity, or if they really don not need to work, or could arrange things so as not to have to work (move locations or to a smaller house, etc.). Jon // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
With all the people who are signing up on the do not call me lists, there will be far fewer telemarketing jobs. However, there will still be some. One of the people I home taught was severely disabled and legally blind. He did telemarketing occasionally. I found the companies he worked for to be, in general, of low integrity. Jon - Original Message - From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 12:55 PM Subject: RE: [ZION] working woman > Stacy Smith wrote: > >I wish I could work at all. The Department of Rehabilitation in this > >county has evaluated me and decided I am unemployable. This is no > >laughing matter for me and has caused me much depression. Seeing I have > >no children, employment outside the home should not have been a problem for me. > > A number of years ago I was a telephone salesman, selling magazine > advertising over the telephone. I got really good at it after weeks of > failure. I'll bet a blind person could do it better than a sighted person > because they would be more sensitive to the subtle nuances in the voice of > both themselves and their prospective customers. Of course some people > don't like that kind of work. Come to think of it, some people don't like > any kind of work. > > > John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > === > "There is no place in this work for those who believe only > in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good > news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley > === > All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
That's not true of me. I loved medical transcription but did not have the necessary speed required and the references I was able to get became out of date soon. I loved it and I could learn to love something else. Stacy. At 08:55 AM 09/20/2003 -0800, you wrote: Stacy Smith wrote: I wish I could work at all. The Department of Rehabilitation in this county has evaluated me and decided I am unemployable. This is no laughing matter for me and has caused me much depression. Seeing I have no children, employment outside the home should not have been a problem for me. A number of years ago I was a telephone salesman, selling magazine advertising over the telephone. I got really good at it after weeks of failure. I'll bet a blind person could do it better than a sighted person because they would be more sensitive to the subtle nuances in the voice of both themselves and their prospective customers. Of course some people don't like that kind of work. Come to think of it, some people don't like any kind of work. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
I am diabetic and I had to find a way to observe the fast properly and still keep my sugar level at a reasonable point. I had been newly diagnosed and wasn't sure about how I could keep the fast. I now have some very good ideas through my bishop. Stacy. At 12:16 AM 09/20/2003 +, you wrote: Stacy Smith wrote: --- Not exactly. Sometimes it can be very uncomfortable to follow prophetic counsel and sometimes circumstantial change does not warrant a change. If there is any difficulty in this, as there has been with me and the fast, one counsels with the bishop. --- Not sure I understand. How can my bishop's directives override the words of the living prophets? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
Stacy Smith wrote: I wish I could work at all. The Department of Rehabilitation in this county has evaluated me and decided I am unemployable. This is no laughing matter for me and has caused me much depression. Seeing I have no children, employment outside the home should not have been a problem for me. A number of years ago I was a telephone salesman, selling magazine advertising over the telephone. I got really good at it after weeks of failure. I'll bet a blind person could do it better than a sighted person because they would be more sensitive to the subtle nuances in the voice of both themselves and their prospective customers. Of course some people don't like that kind of work. Come to think of it, some people don't like any kind of work. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === "There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph." --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
I wish I could work at all. The Department of Rehabilitation in this county has evaluated me and decided I am unemployable. This is no laughing matter for me and has caused me much depression. Seeing I have no children, employment outside the home should not have been a problem for me. Stacy. At 06:45 AM 09/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: Well, there IS a way to follow prophetic counsel AND work where there is a husband in the home...and it looks like I'm about to embark upon it. I'm going to start doing child care in my home, so I'll be at home with my own children yet bringing in income. I'm also considering giving piano lessons from my home. And I'm also considering taking night classes in medical transcription (I have work experience from my college years in it, but I need to sharpen my skills and there is a program near my home) so that I do that from home. I have a friend from high school, who is LDS and lives in Arizona. She and her husband have 4 children, and though she is trained in other things, she took a course in medical transcription so that she could work from home, and she gets paid very well for her work, which is part time. Now, Jim, you have to admit that there are circumstances when a woman HAS to work outside the home. Val in Mishawaka has to...she is a widow; her family depends on her. The time may come when I will have to...my husband will likely be unable to work due to physical disability in the next 5 years. I really should be doing more to prepare to support my family, but right now I feel like I should be at home. I will, in the next year, probably be taking part time college courses to finish up my last year of bachelor's degree work. We hope to eventually transfer to Louisville, and then I can go to law school, which I've always wanted to do. Once my husband becomes unable to work, we will likely move east, closer to my parents (and a bit closer to his family, too), to have the help & support of family. Be careful, Jim, of painting all LDS working women with the same brush. Heidi > [Original Message] > From: Jim Cobabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 9/19/2003 9:12:23 AM > Subject: RE: [ZION] working woman > > > With regard to applying prophetic counsel, where is the line between > personal prerogative and inspiration, and personal apostasy? > > 2 Sam 6:6-7 > > And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand > to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. > > And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him > there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God. > > I note that in the original ark-steadying incident, it would certainly > appear that the imperative of the moment was a more important > consideration than any more formal rules. When do such considerations > assume overriding priority? > > What about testing the Lord's word? Do we give an honest try to obeying > prophetic counsel, then abandon that when we have decided that our > circumstances warrant some other course of action? > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:35:44 + Jim Cobabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Sounds like we need not follow prophetic counsel as long as our > circumstances make it inconvenient or uncomfortable for us. > > Am I getting this right? No, you're wrong prophet Jim. Your interpretation and expectations are for yourself and it would be wise if you didn't force them on others. I advise you to move with the times and realize that old ways are not going to cut it in this day and age. Worse yet, we are fast approaching the day when two paychecks will hardly be enough to meet the financial requirements to support a family in the big city. The family unit is being attacked from all sides. We must improvise to survive. That is why we have new prophets rise in each generation. So, quit judging and snap out of it! Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Be careful, Jim, of painting all LDS working women with the same brush. --- Yah, hope I wasn't doing that. But here's something to consider further... "It is in vain for persons to fancy to themselves that they are heirs with those, or can be heirs with them, who have offered their all in sacrifice, and by this means obtained faith in God and favor with him so as to obtain eternal life, unless they in like manner offer unto him the same sacrifice and through that offering obtain the knowledge that they are accepted of him." (Lectures on Faith 6.) If we fail to observe even the least of the Lord's commandments, through his living prophets, how can we hope to obtain an ultimate reward equal to those who have suffered and endured and sacrificed their all? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
Well, there IS a way to follow prophetic counsel AND work where there is a husband in the home...and it looks like I'm about to embark upon it. I'm going to start doing child care in my home, so I'll be at home with my own children yet bringing in income. I'm also considering giving piano lessons from my home. And I'm also considering taking night classes in medical transcription (I have work experience from my college years in it, but I need to sharpen my skills and there is a program near my home) so that I do that from home. I have a friend from high school, who is LDS and lives in Arizona. She and her husband have 4 children, and though she is trained in other things, she took a course in medical transcription so that she could work from home, and she gets paid very well for her work, which is part time. Now, Jim, you have to admit that there are circumstances when a woman HAS to work outside the home. Val in Mishawaka has to...she is a widow; her family depends on her. The time may come when I will have to...my husband will likely be unable to work due to physical disability in the next 5 years. I really should be doing more to prepare to support my family, but right now I feel like I should be at home. I will, in the next year, probably be taking part time college courses to finish up my last year of bachelor's degree work. We hope to eventually transfer to Louisville, and then I can go to law school, which I've always wanted to do. Once my husband becomes unable to work, we will likely move east, closer to my parents (and a bit closer to his family, too), to have the help & support of family. Be careful, Jim, of painting all LDS working women with the same brush. Heidi > [Original Message] > From: Jim Cobabe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 9/19/2003 9:12:23 AM > Subject: RE: [ZION] working woman > > > With regard to applying prophetic counsel, where is the line between > personal prerogative and inspiration, and personal apostasy? > > 2 Sam 6:6-7 > > And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand > to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. > > And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him > there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God. > > I note that in the original ark-steadying incident, it would certainly > appear that the imperative of the moment was a more important > consideration than any more formal rules. When do such considerations > assume overriding priority? > > What about testing the Lord's word? Do we give an honest try to obeying > prophetic counsel, then abandon that when we have decided that our > circumstances warrant some other course of action? > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
Stacy Smith wrote: --- Not exactly. Sometimes it can be very uncomfortable to follow prophetic counsel and sometimes circumstantial change does not warrant a change. If there is any difficulty in this, as there has been with me and the fast, one counsels with the bishop. --- Not sure I understand. How can my bishop's directives override the words of the living prophets? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
Not exactly. Sometimes it can be very uncomfortable to follow prophetic counsel and sometimes circumstantial change does not warrant a change. If there is any difficulty in this, as there has been with me and the fast, one counsels with the bishop. Stacy. At 01:35 PM 09/19/2003 +, you wrote: Sounds like we need not follow prophetic counsel as long as our circumstances make it inconvenient or uncomfortable for us. Am I getting this right? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
The line must be decided individual case by individual case between the person and the bishop, I'm sure. Stacy. At 02:12 PM 09/19/2003 +, you wrote: With regard to applying prophetic counsel, where is the line between personal prerogative and inspiration, and personal apostasy? 2 Sam 6:6-7 And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God. I note that in the original ark-steadying incident, it would certainly appear that the imperative of the moment was a more important consideration than any more formal rules. When do such considerations assume overriding priority? What about testing the Lord's word? Do we give an honest try to obeying prophetic counsel, then abandon that when we have decided that our circumstances warrant some other course of action? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
With regard to applying prophetic counsel, where is the line between personal prerogative and inspiration, and personal apostasy? 2 Sam 6:6-7 And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God. I note that in the original ark-steadying incident, it would certainly appear that the imperative of the moment was a more important consideration than any more formal rules. When do such considerations assume overriding priority? What about testing the Lord's word? Do we give an honest try to obeying prophetic counsel, then abandon that when we have decided that our circumstances warrant some other course of action? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
Sounds like we need not follow prophetic counsel as long as our circumstances make it inconvenient or uncomfortable for us. Am I getting this right? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
At 07:28 PM 9/15/03 -0500, Paul Osborne wrote: On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:48:07 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Oh! And I forgot...my husband has also literally broken his back at > work...when the store was being constructed, they didn't properly > cover an > area where pipes and that come up to the ground...only covered it > in > plywood. He was walking the area in the truck bay, and thought > he'd > stepped around it, but when his foot hit the wood, the wood > shattered, he > fell and the pipes broke his fall, as well as his back. > > Heidi I've been cut many times, bruised, hit in the head by a fallen light pole, burned during welding, frostbitten by liquid refrigerant, shocked by 277VAC, A guy I know on another list confessed that the first week he was working as a TV service person he was trying to get a better grip on the 27" picture tube he had just removed from a customer's set when he accidentally stuck his finger in that little hole on the side of the tube and had the flyback capacitor discharge through him -- he mentioned this in response to a post where I had mentioned that the rule of thumb is that the flyback voltage on a picture tube or CRT from a monitor is about 1,000 volts per inch of diagonal measurement. In response to 27KVDC being grounded through his arm, his muscles contracted violently and he put his elbow through the customer's family room wall . . . P.S. No, I have never done that myself. In fact, the reason it came up was that I had mentioned that once when I wrote a hardware manual for a particular series of computer terminals I learned (1) that rule of thumb for the flyback voltage and (2) the proper, safe way to discharge the flyback capacitor *before* removing the tube from the chassis . . . OTOH, when I was working in the nuclear accelerator lab while an undergraduate, I was given the task of wiring an delay circuit so an alarm would sound for a certain period of time before any power went to the cyclotron so anyone who happened to be inside the vault would have time to either get out or throw the kill switch before he got zapped by radiation. One of the people who was supposed to know what he was doing drew up a circuit diagram which I was supposed to follow. I already knew enough by then to put it together with jumper cables and test it before soldering anything permanently. When I finished wiring it that way and plugged it in and flipped the switch, there was a foot-long spark and the lights in half the building went out. The professor in charge of the lab asked calmly, "What happened?". flipped the circuit breaker back on, looked at the diagram I had followed, and corrected it. That time, it worked without any unexpected pyrotechnics . . . Can a male school teacher support a family with one paycheck? Must all school teachers be woman? I'm not. Of course, no one said you could support a family on my paycheck. I can barely support me and two cats on what I can manage to bring in. (And, FWIW, my house is paid for.) -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
Thanks Ronn. My point exactly, and, many people haven't had pay raises for a couple of years but things keep going up like medical insurance but the benefits go down. Pretty soon people will be jumping out of windows and off bridges. The country is in a serious depression. Paul O On Sun, 14 Sep 2003 20:34:40 -0500 "Ronn! Blankenship" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Or occasionally to keep the family from falling any further behind > when > taxes of various sorts frequently take up the first 50% of > everyone's > income, gas is over $2.00 a gallon, the first car costs $20,000 (or > if you > buy a used one to save money, it's always in the shop) and a basic > house > over $100,000, and many people are living paycheck to paycheck not > by > choice or because they are profligate, and an unexpected medical > bill or > something can wipe you out, and your job could end tomorrow without > any > warning . . . > > > -- Ronn! :) > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:48:07 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Oh! And I forgot...my husband has also literally broken his back at > work...when the store was being constructed, they didn't properly > cover an > area where pipes and that come up to the ground...only covered it > in > plywood. He was walking the area in the truck bay, and thought > he'd > stepped around it, but when his foot hit the wood, the wood > shattered, he > fell and the pipes broke his fall, as well as his back. > > Heidi I've been cut many times, bruised, hit in the head by a fallen light pole, burned during welding, frostbitten by liquid refrigerant, shocked by 277VAC, fallen off ladders, dehydrated several times, and once fell into shock. Not to mention how depressed I've been over my little itty pay check that would cause a lot of men to have their cars reposessed and their houses forclosed on. My wife became a full time school teacher a year ago and we bought our first home, at the age of 40. I was worried I would never get my own home before the kids move out. Can a male school teacher support a family with one paycheck? Must all school teachers be woman? Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:50:33 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I, too, would also like decent health care for my family, but we pay > more > and get less coverage than the union employees do. He doesn't get > overtime. They do. He doesn't have any recourse when he doesn't > like how > he's being treated by his bosses. They do. All they have to do is > grieve > whatever clause in their contract they feel is being violated. > What > recourse does my husband have? He has been told by HR people that, > as a > white male, he legally has no recourse for anything. > > Heidi Here in Texas the company can fire you for any reason and there is nothing you can do about it. Workers have no rights or safeties in place. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
Heidi, Where do you live? It sounds like a blue collar paradise! Those guys are lucky! There ain't no unions in Texas. I'm sorry to hear about the female snake in your husband's company. What a drag! Paul O On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 08:12:26 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Well, Paul, my husband is in what you would refer to as a > "white-collar" > job and supervises what you would call "blue-collar" workers. > However, > many of those "blue-collar" workers make much more money than my > husband > does because of the union. They are unionized and are thus paid > overtime, > etc...my husband is salaried but does not get paid overtime, yet he > is > required to put in over 60 hours per week (and he is not the only > manager > in this position). Last weekend, in 3 days, he put in 42 hours. He > puts > in MANY MANY MANY more hours than any of his spoiled unionized blue > collar > workers even DREAM of putting in themselves! And yet, they're > talking of > striking next year because - BOOHOO - the company cannot continue to > pay > 100% of their health insurance premiums. The company is not asking > the > unionized workers to pay any more than what management has been > paying for > years, yet the spoiled unionized workers are planning to strike over > this > next year when the contract is up. Quite frankly, my husband is > being > oppressed in his job by a female regional manager who favors other > females > in promotions. The last person to get promoted was a female with > less than > 2 years of service in, yet my husband who is eminently more > qualified and > smarter and who has nearly 5 years in, was not promoted. Yes, my > husband > is white collar, but I have to work, too. > > Heidi > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Paul Osborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 9/14/2003 7:56:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > > > Gordon B. Hinckley, "Women of the Church," Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 > > "Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women > of the > > Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give > their > > individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he > took. > > NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some > women (it > > has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE > NEEDS > > OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope > that if > > you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic > needs > > are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, > fancy > > cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will > ever do > > will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing > her > > children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately > take her > > place." > > -- > > There are "many" woman who have to work because their husbands are > blue > > collar workers who have been oppressed by the financial changes of > our > > society. The prophet is confessing to the Church there are changes > taking > > place. President Bensen is dead and can no longer counsel the > Church > > regarding the movement of the LDS people in a changing world > which > > continues to get worse and oppress the poor working men of this > world. > > President Hinckley confesses that the number of woman is "MANY" > that > > "HAVE" to work. > > I feel that those people (especially white collar men) that tell > the blue > > collar men that wives shouldnt work are way out of line and are > NOT > > following the counsel and example of the prophet! It is the white > collar > > men that have oppressed the blue collar men since this world began > and > > the day will come when that will no longer be the case. > > Finally, if you self righteous white collar brethren don't like > what I'm > > saying-- then shove it where the sun don't shine! :-((( so blahhh > to > > you! The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
One more thing (every time I read this email, I think of something else)...you don't know what working conditions my husband has. You really don't, and you shouldn't presume to judge them. I didn't make clear in my first email that I was referring to only the employees my husband has to deal with, and I'm sorry about that. He doesn't even have mandated breaks, yet the union employees do. And if they don't get their 10 minute smoke breaks RIGHT ON TIME, they're screaming and they file a grievance. I can't tell you how many times I bring him something for supper because he's working 7 am to 10 pm, and he's lucky to get 3 minutes to gulp down a sandwich. Just this past Saturday, he actually had a day off (after working 10 days straight) and we went in to get groceries. We couldn't get through the store without them paging him to deal with a customer...and the girl at the front desk got huffy when I pointed out that it was his day off. That's just the tip of what we're dealing with here...we're not protected by a union contract. Heidi > [Original Message] > From: Val <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 9/15/2003 8:26:57 AM > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > > As a member of a union (NEA, ISTA, BEA), and the widow of a "spoiled?" blue collar UAW worker, I'd like to see your husband get his hands dirty doing the blue-collar work my husband did his whole life! > > It literally broke his back! He couldn't even go to his youngest daughter's high school graduation because he couldn't walk! There is no amount of money in the world to make up for that! > > Your husband may work more hours, but he sure doesn't have the working conditions the blue collar workers do. How unfair of you to call them spoiled. How unfair to complain because they want decent health care coverage for their families. It is your attitude that keeps unions alive! > > val > > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Well, Paul, my husband is in what you would refer to as a "white-collar" > job and supervises what you would call "blue-collar" workers. However, > many of those "blue-collar" workers make much more money than my husband > does because of the union. They are unionized and are thus paid overtime, > etc...my husband is salaried but does not get paid overtime, yet he is > required to put in over 60 hours per week (and he is not the only manager > in this position). Last weekend, in 3 days, he put in 42 hours. He puts > in MANY MANY MANY more hours than any of his spoiled unionized blue collar > workers even DREAM of putting in themselves! And yet, they're talking of > striking next year because - BOOHOO - the company cannot continue to pay > 100% of their health insurance premiums. The company is not asking the > unionized workers to pay any more than what management has been paying for > years, yet the spoiled unionized workers are planning to strike over this > next year when the contract is up. Quite frankly, my husband is being > oppressed in his job by a female regional manager who favors other females > in promotions. The last person to get promoted was a female with less than > 2 years of service in, yet my husband who is eminently more qualified and > smarter and who has nearly 5 years in, was not promoted. Yes, my husband > is white collar, but I have to work, too. > > Heidi > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Paul Osborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 9/14/2003 7:56:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > > > Gordon B. Hinckley, "Women of the Church," Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 > > "Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women of the > > Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give their > > individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he took. > > NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it > > has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEEDS > > OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope that if > > you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic needs > > are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, fancy > > cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will ever do > > will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her > > children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately take her > > place." > > -- > > There are "many" woman who have to work because their husbands are blue > > collar workers who
Re: [ZION] working woman
I, too, would also like decent health care for my family, but we pay more and get less coverage than the union employees do. He doesn't get overtime. They do. He doesn't have any recourse when he doesn't like how he's being treated by his bosses. They do. All they have to do is grieve whatever clause in their contract they feel is being violated. What recourse does my husband have? He has been told by HR people that, as a white male, he legally has no recourse for anything. Heidi > [Original Message] > From: Val <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 9/15/2003 8:26:57 AM > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > > As a member of a union (NEA, ISTA, BEA), and the widow of a "spoiled?" blue collar UAW worker, I'd like to see your husband get his hands dirty doing the blue-collar work my husband did his whole life! > > It literally broke his back! He couldn't even go to his youngest daughter's high school graduation because he couldn't walk! There is no amount of money in the world to make up for that! > > Your husband may work more hours, but he sure doesn't have the working conditions the blue collar workers do. How unfair of you to call them spoiled. How unfair to complain because they want decent health care coverage for their families. It is your attitude that keeps unions alive! > > val > > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Well, Paul, my husband is in what you would refer to as a "white-collar" > job and supervises what you would call "blue-collar" workers. However, > many of those "blue-collar" workers make much more money than my husband > does because of the union. They are unionized and are thus paid overtime, > etc...my husband is salaried but does not get paid overtime, yet he is > required to put in over 60 hours per week (and he is not the only manager > in this position). Last weekend, in 3 days, he put in 42 hours. He puts > in MANY MANY MANY more hours than any of his spoiled unionized blue collar > workers even DREAM of putting in themselves! And yet, they're talking of > striking next year because - BOOHOO - the company cannot continue to pay > 100% of their health insurance premiums. The company is not asking the > unionized workers to pay any more than what management has been paying for > years, yet the spoiled unionized workers are planning to strike over this > next year when the contract is up. Quite frankly, my husband is being > oppressed in his job by a female regional manager who favors other females > in promotions. The last person to get promoted was a female with less than > 2 years of service in, yet my husband who is eminently more qualified and > smarter and who has nearly 5 years in, was not promoted. Yes, my husband > is white collar, but I have to work, too. > > Heidi > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Paul Osborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 9/14/2003 7:56:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > > > Gordon B. Hinckley, "Women of the Church," Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 > > "Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women of the > > Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give their > > individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he took. > > NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it > > has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEEDS > > OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope that if > > you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic needs > > are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, fancy > > cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will ever do > > will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her > > children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately take her > > place." > > -- > > There are "many" woman who have to work because their husbands are blue > > collar workers who have been oppressed by the financial changes of our > > society. The prophet is confessing to the Church there are changes taking > > place. President Bensen is dead and can no longer counsel the Church > > regarding the movement of the LDS people in a changing world which > > continues to get worse and oppress the poor working men of this world. > > President Hinckley confesses that the number of woman is "MANY" that > > "HAVE" to work. > > I feel that those people (especially white collar men) that tell the blue > > collar men that
Re: [ZION] working woman
Oh! And I forgot...my husband has also literally broken his back at work...when the store was being constructed, they didn't properly cover an area where pipes and that come up to the ground...only covered it in plywood. He was walking the area in the truck bay, and thought he'd stepped around it, but when his foot hit the wood, the wood shattered, he fell and the pipes broke his fall, as well as his back. Heidi > [Original Message] > From: Val <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 9/15/2003 8:26:57 AM > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > > As a member of a union (NEA, ISTA, BEA), and the widow of a "spoiled?" blue collar UAW worker, I'd like to see your husband get his hands dirty doing the blue-collar work my husband did his whole life! > > It literally broke his back! He couldn't even go to his youngest daughter's high school graduation because he couldn't walk! There is no amount of money in the world to make up for that! > > Your husband may work more hours, but he sure doesn't have the working conditions the blue collar workers do. How unfair of you to call them spoiled. How unfair to complain because they want decent health care coverage for their families. It is your attitude that keeps unions alive! > > val > > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Well, Paul, my husband is in what you would refer to as a "white-collar" > job and supervises what you would call "blue-collar" workers. However, > many of those "blue-collar" workers make much more money than my husband > does because of the union. They are unionized and are thus paid overtime, > etc...my husband is salaried but does not get paid overtime, yet he is > required to put in over 60 hours per week (and he is not the only manager > in this position). Last weekend, in 3 days, he put in 42 hours. He puts > in MANY MANY MANY more hours than any of his spoiled unionized blue collar > workers even DREAM of putting in themselves! And yet, they're talking of > striking next year because - BOOHOO - the company cannot continue to pay > 100% of their health insurance premiums. The company is not asking the > unionized workers to pay any more than what management has been paying for > years, yet the spoiled unionized workers are planning to strike over this > next year when the contract is up. Quite frankly, my husband is being > oppressed in his job by a female regional manager who favors other females > in promotions. The last person to get promoted was a female with less than > 2 years of service in, yet my husband who is eminently more qualified and > smarter and who has nearly 5 years in, was not promoted. Yes, my husband > is white collar, but I have to work, too. > > Heidi > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Paul Osborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 9/14/2003 7:56:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > > > Gordon B. Hinckley, "Women of the Church," Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 > > "Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women of the > > Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give their > > individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he took. > > NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it > > has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEEDS > > OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope that if > > you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic needs > > are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, fancy > > cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will ever do > > will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her > > children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately take her > > place." > > -- > > There are "many" woman who have to work because their husbands are blue > > collar workers who have been oppressed by the financial changes of our > > society. The prophet is confessing to the Church there are changes taking > > place. President Bensen is dead and can no longer counsel the Church > > regarding the movement of the LDS people in a changing world which > > continues to get worse and oppress the poor working men of this world. > > President Hinckley confesses that the number of woman is "MANY" that > > "HAVE" to work. > > I feel that those people (especially white collar men) that tell the blue > > collar men that wives shouldnt work are way out of line and are NOT > > following the counsel and ex
Re: [ZION] working woman
Val, I'm sorry...when I said "spoiled", I meant only the ones that my husband has had to deal with. That being said, he can (and does when his employees call in) do everything they can do. When he's shorthanded, he will often unload a truck. When the freezers and coolers break down, he fixes them (I can tell you that I'm getting to be quite an expert at getting oil & grease out of his dress shirts!). When a customer wants a cake decorated after the bakery people go home, he decorates it (he's also a chef). He does have to be careful in doing these things, however, because the union can - and does - "grieve" him doing these jobs because they are "union" jobs. Meanwhile, the union employees aren't doing them, or they've called in sick or something...the jobs have to get done and my husband has to pick up the slack. Again, I'm sorry...I didn't mean to offend. Heidi > [Original Message] > From: Val <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 9/15/2003 8:26:57 AM > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > > As a member of a union (NEA, ISTA, BEA), and the widow of a "spoiled?" blue collar UAW worker, I'd like to see your husband get his hands dirty doing the blue-collar work my husband did his whole life! > > It literally broke his back! He couldn't even go to his youngest daughter's high school graduation because he couldn't walk! There is no amount of money in the world to make up for that! > > Your husband may work more hours, but he sure doesn't have the working conditions the blue collar workers do. How unfair of you to call them spoiled. How unfair to complain because they want decent health care coverage for their families. It is your attitude that keeps unions alive! > > val > > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Well, Paul, my husband is in what you would refer to as a "white-collar" > job and supervises what you would call "blue-collar" workers. However, > many of those "blue-collar" workers make much more money than my husband > does because of the union. They are unionized and are thus paid overtime, > etc...my husband is salaried but does not get paid overtime, yet he is > required to put in over 60 hours per week (and he is not the only manager > in this position). Last weekend, in 3 days, he put in 42 hours. He puts > in MANY MANY MANY more hours than any of his spoiled unionized blue collar > workers even DREAM of putting in themselves! And yet, they're talking of > striking next year because - BOOHOO - the company cannot continue to pay > 100% of their health insurance premiums. The company is not asking the > unionized workers to pay any more than what management has been paying for > years, yet the spoiled unionized workers are planning to strike over this > next year when the contract is up. Quite frankly, my husband is being > oppressed in his job by a female regional manager who favors other females > in promotions. The last person to get promoted was a female with less than > 2 years of service in, yet my husband who is eminently more qualified and > smarter and who has nearly 5 years in, was not promoted. Yes, my husband > is white collar, but I have to work, too. > > Heidi > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Paul Osborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 9/14/2003 7:56:10 PM > > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > > > Gordon B. Hinckley, "Women of the Church," Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 > > "Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women of the > > Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give their > > individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he took. > > NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it > > has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEEDS > > OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope that if > > you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic needs > > are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, fancy > > cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will ever do > > will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her > > children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately take her > > place." > > -- > > There are "many" woman who have to work because their husbands are blue > > collar workers who have been oppressed by the financial changes of our > > society. The prophet is confessing to the Church there are changes taking > > place. President Bensen i
Re: [ZION] working woman
As a member of a union (NEA, ISTA, BEA), and the widow of a "spoiled?" blue collar UAW worker, I'd like to see your husband get his hands dirty doing the blue-collar work my husband did his whole life! It literally broke his back! He couldn't even go to his youngest daughter's high school graduation because he couldn't walk! There is no amount of money in the world to make up for that! Your husband may work more hours, but he sure doesn't have the working conditions the blue collar workers do. How unfair of you to call them spoiled. How unfair to complain because they want decent health care coverage for their families. It is your attitude that keeps unions alive! val -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, Paul, my husband is in what you would refer to as a "white-collar" job and supervises what you would call "blue-collar" workers. However, many of those "blue-collar" workers make much more money than my husband does because of the union. They are unionized and are thus paid overtime, etc...my husband is salaried but does not get paid overtime, yet he is required to put in over 60 hours per week (and he is not the only manager in this position). Last weekend, in 3 days, he put in 42 hours. He puts in MANY MANY MANY more hours than any of his spoiled unionized blue collar workers even DREAM of putting in themselves! And yet, they're talking of striking next year because - BOOHOO - the company cannot continue to pay 100% of their health insurance premiums. The company is not asking the unionized workers to pay any more than what management has been paying for years, yet the spoiled unionized workers are planning to strike over this next year when the contract is up. Quite frankly, my husband is being oppressed in his job by a female regional manager who favors other females in promotions. The last person to get promoted was a female with less than 2 years of service in, yet my husband who is eminently more qualified and smarter and who has nearly 5 years in, was not promoted. Yes, my husband is white collar, but I have to work, too. Heidi > [Original Message] > From: Paul Osborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 9/14/2003 7:56:10 PM > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > Gordon B. Hinckley, "Women of the Church," Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 > "Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women of the > Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give their > individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he took. > NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it > has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEEDS > OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope that if > you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic needs > are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, fancy > cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will ever do > will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her > children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately take her > place." > -- > There are "many" woman who have to work because their husbands are blue > collar workers who have been oppressed by the financial changes of our > society. The prophet is confessing to the Church there are changes taking > place. President Bensen is dead and can no longer counsel the Church > regarding the movement of the LDS people in a changing world which > continues to get worse and oppress the poor working men of this world. > President Hinckley confesses that the number of woman is "MANY" that > "HAVE" to work. > I feel that those people (especially white collar men) that tell the blue > collar men that wives shouldnt work are way out of line and are NOT > following the counsel and example of the prophet! It is the white collar > men that have oppressed the blue collar men since this world began and > the day will come when that will no longer be the case. > Finally, if you self righteous white collar brethren don't like what I'm > saying-- then shove it where the sun don't shine! :-((( so blahhh to > you! > > Paul O > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http:/
RE: [ZION] working woman
The situation Ronn describes is similar to ours. I do the haircuts in the family myself, except for mine and then I only go about twice a year - sometimes only once a year - to those cheapo haircut places where I only spend about $12. For the kids' clothes, I shop rummage sales & secondhand stores and buy things on clearance. I only buy clothes for myself once in a blue moon; I bought some clothes last fall. Most of what I wear is either gifts from my mom or secondhand from my mom. I do have some things I bought on clearance...I paid $3 for my one pair of jeans at an outlet store. We have to spend a bit more on my husband's clothes; he has to wear a shirt & tie every day. He is, however, in dire need of shoes. He did not have a suit until this weekend. We had to buy one because he has a work function coming up in a few weeks at which a coat & tie is required for the men. We found a $300 suit at an outlet that we paid $130 for. I thought that was pretty good. Last week, someone slashed my husband's tires (a bunch of people in our neighborhood had that happen to them) and so the cheapest set of tires we could get for his truck ran us $350 which includes free lifetime tire rotation. The free lifetime rotation is important because my husband feels that's important. That's how he managed to get 87,000 miles out of this set that got cut - we were going to have to replace them soon, anyhow. At the same time, I need to be out in the workplace because we realistically are looking at my husband becoming disabled in the next few years due to him being a brittle diabetic. I am going to become the sole support of my family soon, and so I'm getting back into the workplace now so that I can get more experience. Criticize me if you must, but first walk a mile in my shoes... Heidi > [Original Message] > From: Ronn! Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 9/14/2003 8:45:28 PM > Subject: RE: [ZION] working woman > > At 09:04 PM 9/14/03 -0400, Noel B wrote: > >And why are they working? To get that second car, or the boat or the > >bigger house??? > > > Or occasionally to keep the family from falling any further behind when > taxes of various sorts frequently take up the first 50% of everyone's > income, gas is over $2.00 a gallon, the first car costs $20,000 (or if you > buy a used one to save money, it's always in the shop) and a basic house > over $100,000, and many people are living paycheck to paycheck not by > choice or because they are profligate, and an unexpected medical bill or > something can wipe you out, and your job could end tomorrow without any > warning . . . > > > -- Ronn! :) > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
Perhaps we work because our husbands are, DEAD! There are many reasons women have to work. My husband was a blue collar worker, and even with a cheap mortgage (under 100,000) we could not make ends meet on his check alone. We never had a boat, never had a second home, never moved from the modest home I still live in, never had new wardrobes, never had the big screen TV, never had a new washer and dryer. In fact, the only new major appliance we ever bought, was our refrigerator. Before that we had been using the one my mom and dad got when they were married in 1951. So, before you blow off condemnation at women for working, use your head, think first, and walk a mile or ten in my moccasins! val -- Noel B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And why are they working? To get that second car, or the boat or the bigger house??? I am reminded of what the Lord said in 2 Nephi: -- The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
Well, Paul, my husband is in what you would refer to as a "white-collar" job and supervises what you would call "blue-collar" workers. However, many of those "blue-collar" workers make much more money than my husband does because of the union. They are unionized and are thus paid overtime, etc...my husband is salaried but does not get paid overtime, yet he is required to put in over 60 hours per week (and he is not the only manager in this position). Last weekend, in 3 days, he put in 42 hours. He puts in MANY MANY MANY more hours than any of his spoiled unionized blue collar workers even DREAM of putting in themselves! And yet, they're talking of striking next year because - BOOHOO - the company cannot continue to pay 100% of their health insurance premiums. The company is not asking the unionized workers to pay any more than what management has been paying for years, yet the spoiled unionized workers are planning to strike over this next year when the contract is up. Quite frankly, my husband is being oppressed in his job by a female regional manager who favors other females in promotions. The last person to get promoted was a female with less than 2 years of service in, yet my husband who is eminently more qualified and smarter and who has nearly 5 years in, was not promoted. Yes, my husband is white collar, but I have to work, too. Heidi > [Original Message] > From: Paul Osborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 9/14/2003 7:56:10 PM > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > Gordon B. Hinckley, "Women of the Church," Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 > "Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women of the > Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give their > individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he took. > NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it > has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEEDS > OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope that if > you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic needs > are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, fancy > cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will ever do > will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her > children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately take her > place." > -- > There are "many" woman who have to work because their husbands are blue > collar workers who have been oppressed by the financial changes of our > society. The prophet is confessing to the Church there are changes taking > place. President Bensen is dead and can no longer counsel the Church > regarding the movement of the LDS people in a changing world which > continues to get worse and oppress the poor working men of this world. > President Hinckley confesses that the number of woman is "MANY" that > "HAVE" to work. > I feel that those people (especially white collar men) that tell the blue > collar men that wives shouldnt work are way out of line and are NOT > following the counsel and example of the prophet! It is the white collar > men that have oppressed the blue collar men since this world began and > the day will come when that will no longer be the case. > Finally, if you self righteous white collar brethren don't like what I'm > saying-- then shove it where the sun don't shine! :-((( so blahhh to > you! > > Paul O > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! > > // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
At 09:04 PM 9/14/03 -0400, Noel B wrote: And why are they working? To get that second car, or the boat or the bigger house??? Or occasionally to keep the family from falling any further behind when taxes of various sorts frequently take up the first 50% of everyone's income, gas is over $2.00 a gallon, the first car costs $20,000 (or if you buy a used one to save money, it's always in the shop) and a basic house over $100,000, and many people are living paycheck to paycheck not by choice or because they are profligate, and an unexpected medical bill or something can wipe you out, and your job could end tomorrow without any warning . . . -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
I fought the Amendment myself even though I wasn't a church member yet and would not become a member for another twenty-some years. Stacy. At 09:04 PM 09/14/2003 -0400, you wrote: And why are they working? To get that second car, or the boat or the bigger house??? I am reminded of what the Lord said in 2 Nephi: "51 Wherefore, do not spend money for that which is of no worth, nor your labor for that which cannot satisfy. Hearken diligently unto me, and remember the words which I have spoken; and come unto the Holy One of Israel, and feast upon that which perisheth not, neither can be corrupted, and let your soul delight in fatness." It seems to me that the whole purpose is to "be in the world and taste of the world." The world in changing all right, and the closer we draw that change to ourselves, the further we are from God. James said: "...know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." Yes, having one paycheck can be a real pain at times, but I would suppose that no nurturing parent at home is why children grow up "without natural affection." I have been reading Wil Durant's "The Age of Faith" which chronicles the Roman empires demise. One of the items that weighs heavily in Durant's analysis of the fall of Rome was the assertion of women's rights. Why did the church fight so diligently against the Equal Rights Amendment if this was the position we are going to assume?? Help me understand where this is taking us? NB > -Original Message- > From: Paul Osborne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 8:23 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > > > > Gordon B. Hinckley, "Stand True and Faithful," Ensign, May 1996, 91 > "I urge each of you young women to get all of the schooling > you can get. You will need it for the world into which you > will move. Life is becoming so exceedingly competitive. > Experts say that the average man or woman, during his or her > working career, can expect to have at least five different > jobs. The world is changing, and it is so very important that > we equip ourselves to move with that change. But there is a > bright side to all of this. No other generation in all of > history has offered women so many opportunities." > > > Here a couple of years after Bensen died the prophet is > letting the woman know that work and jobs for woman is > inevitable and the "WORLD IS CHANGING" Don't you blue collar > men feel less then men because your wives have to > work You know how it is. The white collar men are > quite comfortable in what they earn but are blissfully > ignorant of what it is like to make sorry wages in this day > and age. Thank God we have a prophet that has foreseen the > future and prepared our woman for what was coming. Paul O > [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have > been removed] > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
RE: [ZION] working woman
And why are they working? To get that second car, or the boat or the bigger house??? I am reminded of what the Lord said in 2 Nephi: "51 Wherefore, do not spend money for that which is of no worth, nor your labor for that which cannot satisfy. Hearken diligently unto me, and remember the words which I have spoken; and come unto the Holy One of Israel, and feast upon that which perisheth not, neither can be corrupted, and let your soul delight in fatness." It seems to me that the whole purpose is to "be in the world and taste of the world." The world in changing all right, and the closer we draw that change to ourselves, the further we are from God. James said: "...know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." Yes, having one paycheck can be a real pain at times, but I would suppose that no nurturing parent at home is why children grow up "without natural affection." I have been reading Wil Durant's "The Age of Faith" which chronicles the Roman empires demise. One of the items that weighs heavily in Durant's analysis of the fall of Rome was the assertion of women's rights. Why did the church fight so diligently against the Equal Rights Amendment if this was the position we are going to assume?? Help me understand where this is taking us? NB > -Original Message- > From: Paul Osborne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 8:23 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [ZION] working woman > > > > > Gordon B. Hinckley, "Stand True and Faithful," Ensign, May 1996, 91 > "I urge each of you young women to get all of the schooling > you can get. You will need it for the world into which you > will move. Life is becoming so exceedingly competitive. > Experts say that the average man or woman, during his or her > working career, can expect to have at least five different > jobs. The world is changing, and it is so very important that > we equip ourselves to move with that change. But there is a > bright side to all of this. No other generation in all of > history has offered women so many opportunities." > > > Here a couple of years after Bensen died the prophet is > letting the woman know that work and jobs for woman is > inevitable and the "WORLD IS CHANGING" Don't you blue collar > men feel less then men because your wives have to > work You know how it is. The white collar men are > quite comfortable in what they earn but are blissfully > ignorant of what it is like to make sorry wages in this day > and age. Thank God we have a prophet that has foreseen the > future and prepared our woman for what was coming. Paul O > [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have > been removed] > // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
Gordon B. Hinckley, "Women of the Church," Ensign, Nov. 1996, 67 "Some years ago President Benson delivered a message to the women of the Church. He encouraged them to leave their employment and give their individual time to their children. I sustain the position which he took. NEVERTHLESS, I recognize, as he recognized, that there are some women (it has become very MANY in fact) who HAVE TO WORK TO PROVIDE FOR THE NEEDS OF THEIR FAMILIES. To you I say, do the very best you can. I hope that if you are employed full-time you are doing it to ensure that basic needs are met and not simply to indulge a taste for an elaborate home, fancy cars, and other luxuries. The greatest job that any mother will ever do will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her children in righteousness and truth. None other can adequately take her place." -- There are "many" woman who have to work because their husbands are blue collar workers who have been oppressed by the financial changes of our society. The prophet is confessing to the Church there are changes taking place. President Bensen is dead and can no longer counsel the Church regarding the movement of the LDS people in a changing world which continues to get worse and oppress the poor working men of this world. President Hinckley confesses that the number of woman is "MANY" that "HAVE" to work. I feel that those people (especially white collar men) that tell the blue collar men that wives shouldnt work are way out of line and are NOT following the counsel and example of the prophet! It is the white collar men that have oppressed the blue collar men since this world began and the day will come when that will no longer be the case. Finally, if you self righteous white collar brethren don't like what I'm saying-- then shove it where the sun don't shine! :-((( so blahhh to you! Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
Gordon B. Hinckley, "Stand True and Faithful," Ensign, May 1996, 91 "I urge each of you young women to get all of the schooling you can get. You will need it for the world into which you will move. Life is becoming so exceedingly competitive. Experts say that the average man or woman, during his or her working career, can expect to have at least five different jobs. The world is changing, and it is so very important that we equip ourselves to move with that change. But there is a bright side to all of this. No other generation in all of history has offered women so many opportunities." Here a couple of years after Bensen died the prophet is letting the woman know that work and jobs for woman is inevitable and the WORLD IS CHANGING Dont you blue collar men feel less then men because your wives have to work You know how it is. The white collar men are quite comfortable in what they earn but are blissfully ignorant of what it is like to make sorry wages in this day and age. Thank God we have a prophet that has foreseen the future and prepared our woman for what was coming. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] working woman
"Excerpts from Recent Addresses of President Gordon B. Hinckley," Ensign, Dec. 1995, 66 "In this age when more and more women are TURNING TO DAILY WORK, how tremendous it is, once in a while, to stop and recognize that the greatest service that any woman will ever perform will be in nurturing, teaching, lifting, encouraging, and rearing her children in righteousness and truth. There is no other thing that will compare with that regardless of what she does." - Note that President Bensen had only been dead for about a year and President Hinckley now assumes the Presidency. More and more woman are turning to "daily work" because more and more men can't provide a enough income to support a family because the financial makeup (for lack of a better word) of our society is changing and forcing both mom and dad to bring home a pay check, especially when dad is a blue collar worker. O don't feel quilty all ye blue collar men!! Don't let the white collar men make you feel less than valuable because your paychecks are only 1/2 of what the other men make and your work is needed as much as any other. The prophet notes that "once in a while" it is a wonderful thing to see how woman fulfill their roles in rearing a family but makes note that woman do turn to daily work and does NOT condemn it! President Bensen is NOT in the conference and the times have changed!! As such, the living prophet is wise and sees how things have changed and doesn't put his foot in his mouth. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
